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Who are the shutdown CBs that will make you sit your WR? (1 Viewer)
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njherdfan
Footballguy
It's an interesting question. I'm probably the biggest Revis fan on the boards and I will always defend him when people criticize him, but I still find it tough to bench WRs he's going to face. The Jets have Revis match up with the other team's best WR the vast majority of the time, but occasionally, they will play a zone and the WR will have a chance to play against someone not at Revis' level. That's essentially what you're banking on if you start a WR against Revis.
Unless you have a backup who you feel comfortable starting, though, it's really really tough to take your WR out of the lineup. Granted, a healthy Revis has shut down pretty much every receiver he has faced over the last three years, but I still don't know how you can take out a WR1 and feel good about it. I'll be starting Stevie Johnson this week, but my expectations won't be high.
Unless you have a backup who you feel comfortable starting, though, it's really really tough to take your WR out of the lineup. Granted, a healthy Revis has shut down pretty much every receiver he has faced over the last three years, but I still don't know how you can take out a WR1 and feel good about it. I'll be starting Stevie Johnson this week, but my expectations won't be high.
Darryl Talley
Footballguy
So you guys would start a Nate Washington versus Revis (hypothetically)?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Heard a stat on the radio today...QB's have the worst rating vs. the Jets D (somewhere around a 60 rating). Don't know if its all Revis, but you don't want your fantasy passing game going against the Jets. That said, I never bench my 1 or 2 due to match ups. I only play match ups with my WR3.
if Nate Washington is you WR1 then your WR group is pretty bad. Starting him vs Revis is the least of your concerns. Nate as my WR3? Yes, I would probably bench him vs Revis
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njherdfan
Footballguy
That's just not true. Look at the list of receivers Revis has shut down when he's healthy. Last season he shut down Calvin, Andre, Jennings, (off the top of my head) and two years ago he shut down Roddy White, AJ, Colston, and everyone else he faced. If Revis sticks with a receiver for an entire game, you're better off not starting that receiver. The only question is if Revis will do that.
Darryl Talley
Footballguy
My apologies, I thought WR1 was referring to the team and not fantasy.
footballnerd
Footballguy
Steve Johnson to the bench this week vs Revis
(BUF's WR1, my WR3)
(BUF's WR1, my WR3)
Good point.BTW, on that same train of thought, you CAN NOT bench Chris Johnson-look at what he did last year, and two years ago. Also, I would NEVER bench Reggie Wayne. Look at what he did last year, and two years ago. For that matter, Philip Rivers is un-benchable; look at his numbers from last year, and two years ag
K, sarcasm aside, the point is using data from 1 or 2 years ago, is a bad idea. "What have you done for me lately" is a good question to remember.2011 Week 1-Miles Austin, 5 catches 90 yards, 1 TDWeek 2-Mike Thomas, 3 catches, 29 yardsWeek 4-Anquan Boldin, 1 catch, 28 yardsWeek 5-Wes Welker, 5 catches, 124 yardsWeek 6-Brandon Marshall, 6 catches, 109 yardsWeek 7-Vincent Jackson, 1 catch, 15 yardsSo in 6 games that Revis played this season, the WR1 for the other team has put up 100+ yards 2 times, and 90 yards and a TD 1 other time; that's 50% of the time being a good/great start, FF speaking. I understand that Revis may not have been covering the WR1 for the entire game, but the point remains that automatically benching your WR1 because he is playing the Jets in a given week, BECAUSE OF REVIS' REPUTATION FROM LAST YEAR (OR 2009) is not a statistically reasonable idea.
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njherdfan
Footballguy
I'm agreeing with you that you might get lucky and have Revis not covering a WR1 on certain plays when the WR1 can put up stats. I'm just saying that it's not an automatic thing that a WR1 will be able to put up stats. If he's being covered by Revis for the entire game, he probably won't. Revis has given up 10 catches in 7 games and has more INT yards than receiving yards allowed against him. Those are his stats from this year, not his reputationGood point.BTW, on that same train of thought, you CAN NOT bench Chris Johnson-look at what he did last year, and two years ago. Also, I would NEVER bench Reggie Wayne. Look at what he did last year, and two years ago. For that matter, Philip Rivers is un-benchable; look at his numbers from last year, and two years ag
Wasn't Revis covering Bryant in Week 1? IIRC he was covering Bryant when he made the interception that clinched the game.Good point.BTW, on that same train of thought, you CAN NOT bench Chris Johnson-look at what he did last year, and two years ago. Also, I would NEVER bench Reggie Wayne. Look at what he did last year, and two years ago. For that matter, Philip Rivers is un-benchable; look at his numbers from last year, and two years ag
Sabertooth
Footballguy
You further illustrate his point.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/8369/another-take-on-revis-ridiculous-season
Pro Football Focus has an in-depth article on Revis' performance -- specifically, a breakdown of the 10 receptions he has allowed.
Yeah, that's right, just 10 -- 10 receptions, no TDs allowed and a ridiculous 2.9 passer rating. At this rate, Revis not only will win NFL Defensive Player of the Year, but he might force them to re-name the award in his honor.
Those numbers would be mind-blowing if he were covering the opponents' third or fourth receiver, but Revis is covering the No. 1 receiver most of the time. He could wind up exceeding his 2009 performance, considered one of the best years for a cornerback in recent memory.
Pro Football Focus has an in-depth article on Revis' performance -- specifically, a breakdown of the 10 receptions he has allowed.
Yeah, that's right, just 10 -- 10 receptions, no TDs allowed and a ridiculous 2.9 passer rating. At this rate, Revis not only will win NFL Defensive Player of the Year, but he might force them to re-name the award in his honor.
Those numbers would be mind-blowing if he were covering the opponents' third or fourth receiver, but Revis is covering the No. 1 receiver most of the time. He could wind up exceeding his 2009 performance, considered one of the best years for a cornerback in recent memory.
It's not luck, it's playing the percentages. 50% of the time Revis has played this year, the opposing team's WR1 has produced good FF stats. The fact is that Revis doesn't lock onto the opposing team's #1 WR for the entire game, so any decision to bench your WR1 solely because he is playing the Jets is foolish.If you have Calvin Johnson playing the Jets, it's foolish to bench him for Desean Jackson, just because Revis might be covering Calvin for parts of the game, since the Jets don't lock Revis onto the other teams WR1 every play. Jackson has produced good/great WR FF stats less than 50% of his games this season, so the percentages say play Calvin, even though he is playing the Jets. If your other options at WR are Welker, Wallace, and Jennings, that's a different scenario.
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Mr. Know-It-All
Footballguy
Revis always - Bailey usually.
footballnerd
Footballguy
PHI corners too
I never will sit a legit WR1 based solely on the CB. Other WRs, yes it definitely will factor in. My "top CBs" list is pretty similar - those guys are all very good.
Here's why:
1) Boundary/Field assignments for CBs/WRs can change who the CB is covering. Many teams do this.
2) Zone
3) Moving a WR around to get him open.
Last week, for example, Detroit used Calvin Johnson in the slot a decent amount (way more than I've seen them ever use him like this before) to get a favorable matchup.
Simply put, I don't care if Revis has only allowed 10 catches, I only care if my WR scores. Unless I know for a fact that the CB is going to cover my WR literally every play (which I doubt will ever happen) I'm going to start legit WRs against them.
Here's why:
1) Boundary/Field assignments for CBs/WRs can change who the CB is covering. Many teams do this.
2) Zone
3) Moving a WR around to get him open.
Last week, for example, Detroit used Calvin Johnson in the slot a decent amount (way more than I've seen them ever use him like this before) to get a favorable matchup.
Simply put, I don't care if Revis has only allowed 10 catches, I only care if my WR scores. Unless I know for a fact that the CB is going to cover my WR literally every play (which I doubt will ever happen) I'm going to start legit WRs against them.
footballnerd
Footballguy
maybe we should be talking WR Tiers....nobody is going to sit Calvin or Andre, but I will sit Vincent Jackson, Stevie Johnson if I have better options
ClevelandRocks
Footballguy
i Would add Ike Taylor too this list as well, Revis is the only true shut down corner, the others you have too at least account for in slowing down that number one WR.
Touchdown Syndrome
Footballguy
I certainly wouldn't bench an elite WR option vs. anybody.
If I had competitive, reasonable options to put in instead of a lesser tier starting WR, I'd consider it....but only against Revis.
He's the best shut-down corner since Deion, hands down.
If I had competitive, reasonable options to put in instead of a lesser tier starting WR, I'd consider it....but only against Revis.
He's the best shut-down corner since Deion, hands down.
duaneok66
Footballguy
nice article. However, defensive statistics are advanced nowadays, but they are still somewhat subjective.
case in point - the Jets played the Pats (this play was shown in detail on NFLN playbook)
Welker was the only WR to the right - Revis and a safety were the secondary players on that side. Welker broke after the snap - and I dont know if Revis was in zone or if he was just looking to make a play vs the run, but Welker ran right past him. The safety took Welker but Welker beat him easily ans scored. Why would Revis let one of the top WRs in the league run free? IMO he was at fault for this play - Welker scored and it was like a 70 yard play.
Add to that the fact, that Marshall beat Revis like a drum (I don't care if Revis was covering him half the time or not, your WR1 got 100 yards). That's the reason why the Revis thing in FF is overblown, because he MIGHT cover the opp WR1 half the time - they might be in a zone coverage or he might shadow a different receiver the rest of the time.
Despite that article, I don't think that Revis has been the same since his great 2009 season. If you have a top 10-12 receiver, I say you start him with confidence against anyone not named Primetime.
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BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
His lack of interceptions will always cause a backlash when speaking of real football
, its the nature of the beast. The Steelers schedule/match-ups can also be questioned, but he can only play against who the NFl puts on the field.But in fantasy defense terms...
Taylor has allowed only 14 receptions for 152 yards through 8 games. No catch longer then 31, and he has been following the best receivers around.
That's an average of 1.75 catches and 19 yards per game.
Taylor doesn't have the interceptions or touchdowns that Revis has. Taylor also has given up more penalties and penalty yardage then Revis. But Taylor also lends a ton to the run game and is given run defensive assignments.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Just wait until the Jets fanboys see your post. They are going to go nuts. You see, Revis is the only things they can hang their hats on. Even though he hasn't won the DMVP. Or a Super Bowl.......or a Heisman
solorca
Footballguy
I think that has as much to do with Jackson as it does the corners. He's getting completely shutdown, and not even looking competitive out there.Will be interesting to see how he fares against the Packers.
njherdfan
Footballguy
1. Welker didn't score. Smith was covering and Revis chased him down and tackled him. On the next play Revis made an incredible play to break up a pass in the EZ to Branch.
2. "Marshall beat Revis like a drum"
Aside from the fact Revis accounted for more points than Marshall, 50 of those yards Marshall had were when Cromartie were covering him. Revis was thrown at 14 times in the game with 5 completions and 2 interceptions. If that's his worst performance of the year, that's amazing.3. You're just wrong about Revis not being the same. I don't know if you've watched him play at all, but I don't know how you can quote an article talking about how he's given up 10 receptions and then say that he hasn't been that good. This year when QBs throw at Revis, they have a QB rating of 2.2
packersfan
Footballguy
I would never sit an elite talent WR against any CB. I think Revis is by far the best cover CB in the league but if I have a stud WR talent I'm starting him. For example, I'd start Larry Fitzgerald against Revis even though it's Revis and Arizona's CB situation isn't very good. I'd simply lower my expectations for Fitzgerald because Revis is a stud. But if anyone's going to beat Revis, I believe it will be another elite player so I'll take my chances unless my WR corps is ridiculously stacked. However, if I had Stevie Johnson this week I'd sit him if I could. I like Stevie but I don't view him as an elite talent.
Haden's the other guy I look at but the Browns don't always match him up with a team's No. 1 WR. Last week, for example, he stayed on one side which allowed the 49ers to keep Crabtree away from him and Crabtree had a good day (would've been great if Smith didn't miss him on a bomb). But I think Haden's the second-best cover corner in the game right now. He's really good.
There aren't any other CBs in the league that give me a lot of pause. I don't think Bailey's a stud anymore so if I had Heyward-Bey I'd be starting him given how good he's been of late. Woodson and Williams in Green Bay are still good players but the Packers' pass defense has been awful this season. I'd actually be looking to start WRs against them, not bench them.
Haden's the other guy I look at but the Browns don't always match him up with a team's No. 1 WR. Last week, for example, he stayed on one side which allowed the 49ers to keep Crabtree away from him and Crabtree had a good day (would've been great if Smith didn't miss him on a bomb). But I think Haden's the second-best cover corner in the game right now. He's really good.
There aren't any other CBs in the league that give me a lot of pause. I don't think Bailey's a stud anymore so if I had Heyward-Bey I'd be starting him given how good he's been of late. Woodson and Williams in Green Bay are still good players but the Packers' pass defense has been awful this season. I'd actually be looking to start WRs against them, not bench them.
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JShare87
Footballguy
Only One person on here mentioned Ike.say what u want numbers don't lie 14 catches for 152 yards on the season is pretty good he's covered fitz Andre and welker did well. He's not in revis' class I don't think anyone is but he is definitely in the next tier. Also about the topic Revis is the only guy I would bench my studs for he is a monster.
L
Luke Skywalker
Guest
Good list: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/25/making-the-grade-cornerbacks-2008-2010/
Having said that I wouldn't sit any elite receiver against any DB. There are too many opportunities to make plays, getting moved around for matchups, blown plays, exploiting holes in a zone, etc.
Having said that I wouldn't sit any elite receiver against any DB. There are too many opportunities to make plays, getting moved around for matchups, blown plays, exploiting holes in a zone, etc.
duaneok66
Footballguy
my mistake - I thought he scored2) I never said he "wasnn't good" I said he wasnt the same as he was in 2009 - In 2009 you NEVER saw him because no one threw to him - this year teams are having more success throwing at him. He's obviously a very good player, but you're not "shutdown" if teams are throwing at you 14 times in one game.1. Welker didn't score. Smith was covering and Revis chased him down and tackled him. On the next play Revis made an incredible play to break up a pass in the EZ to Branch.
2. "Marshall beat Revis like a drum"
3. You're just wrong about Revis not being the same. I don't know if you've watched him play at all, but I don't know how you can quote an article talking about how he's given up 10 receptions and then say that he hasn't been that good. This year when QBs throw at Revis, they have a QB rating of 2.2
mjr
Footballguy
Same here. Playing V. Davis in his place. Not really thrilled about it.
