Who decides first pick money? (1 Viewer)

[Da Guru]

This years draft seems to have 1-15 players who could flip flop positions.

What if the Lions who have two #1s and the first in the second which is almost like 3 #1s...... called the # 12-15 prospect and said.."We will draft you #1 overall..even though you are projected to go 10-15...yet we will pay you what the #7 got paid last year if you sign before the draft.

The Lions would get a solid player they want and save a ton of cash. The player would make way more than he would have sitting and waiting. All of a sudden the rest would be slotted.

Would that raise some hell or what?

 

[Riffraff]

Now insert agents into the scenario.

 

[billyjoe]

This years draft seems to have 1-15 players who could flip flop positions.What if the Lions who have two #1s and the first in the second which is almost like 3 #1s...... called the # 12-15 prospect and said.."We will draft you #1 overall..even though you are projected to go 10-15...yet we will pay you what the #7 got paid last year if you sign before the draft.The Lions would get a solid player they want and save a ton of cash. The player would make way more than he would have sitting and waiting. All of a sudden the rest would be slotted.Would that raise some hell or what?

Uh no. The player would hold out the rentire year and go back into the draft before that happens. The Vikings tried that when they missed a couple of picks. Didn't work, the guy got paid as if the Vikings never missed a pick. You take last years money for the same slot, and add in a % for the expanding cap. And start there. There's no "you shouldn't be #1, but we took you anyway. But we'll pay you 1.09 money." The agent would stand up, walk out of the room and that would be the end of it. I'm sure teams would love to do it, but it wouldn't stand a chance. Not to mentiom the NFLPA would flip out. They'll be giving 60-80mil to whoever they pick, 80mil if it's a QB.

 

[Getinthemix]

An agent would never let his client do that, because it would be used by other agents against him in the client recruiting portion of their business.

 

[Chase Stuart]

This years draft seems to have 1-15 players who could flip flop positions.What if the Lions who have two #1s and the first in the second which is almost like 3 #1s...... called the # 12-15 prospect and said.."We will draft you #1 overall..even though you are projected to go 10-15...yet we will pay you what the #7 got paid last year if you sign before the draft.The Lions would get a solid player they want and save a ton of cash. The player would make way more than he would have sitting and waiting. All of a sudden the rest would be slotted.Would that raise some hell or what?

Why would Detroit rather pay #7 money for the #14 player instead of #1 money for the #1 player? Besides, of course, that they're the Lions.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The NFLPA would never allow this.

 

[Adebisi]

This years draft seems to have 1-15 players who could flip flop positions.What if the Lions who have two #1s and the first in the second which is almost like 3 #1s...... called the # 12-15 prospect and said.."We will draft you #1 overall..even though you are projected to go 10-15...yet we will pay you what the #7 got paid last year if you sign before the draft.The Lions would get a solid player they want and save a ton of cash. The player would make way more than he would have sitting and waiting. All of a sudden the rest would be slotted.Would that raise some hell or what?

Probably because the prospect would say, "Thanks, but you guys are the Lions, and I would prefer you don't draft me at all."

 

[qazqaz11]

An agent would never let his client do that, because it would be used by other agents against him in the client recruiting portion of their business.

These agents aren't so much negotiating this years rookie contracts as they are audioning for next years rookie class. Every agent would rather see his player drop to #25 and negotiate a small contract increase over 2008's #25 contract than to have that same player drafted #1 and sign for #5 money. The fact that this would end up costing the player millions of dollars is completely irrelevant, the only important thing is that the agent doesn't look bad.Hopefully the next CBA will contain a rookie salary cap which will at least somewhat blunt the agents influence.

 

[fatness]

"We have the first pick in the draft. Let's purposely pick a player who's not one of the best prospects."

If they were going to do something that colossally stupid, it would make more sense to trade down.

 

[qazqaz11]

"We have the first pick in the draft. Let's purposely pick a player who's not one of the best prospects."If they were going to do something that colossally stupid, it would make more sense to trade down.

Why aren't the Lions going to sign a top prospect? I mean besides the fact that they are the Lions. It sounds like they have chosen the players that they would feel comfortable drafting at 1.01 and have begun preliminary contract negotiations with all of them.As for trading down, I think that you are confusing FF with real football. If it was as easy as you seem to think it is, why haven't we been hearing about all the offers that Detroit has been receiving for 1.01? With no obvious Calvin or ADP in this class, why would any team want to trade up to #1 and pay $30M+ in guaranteed money to a player that they might be able to draft 10 or 15 spots later for a lot less money?

 

[Tyrion]

This years draft seems to have 1-15 players who could flip flop positions.What if the Lions who have two #1s and the first in the second which is almost like 3 #1s...... called the # 12-15 prospect and said.."We will draft you #1 overall..even though you are projected to go 10-15...yet we will pay you what the #7 got paid last year if you sign before the draft.The Lions would get a solid player they want and save a ton of cash. The player would make way more than he would have sitting and waiting. All of a sudden the rest would be slotted.Would that raise some hell or what?

Uh no. The player would hold out the rentire year and go back into the draft before that happens. The Vikings tried that when they missed a couple of picks. Didn't work, the guy got paid as if the Vikings never missed a pick. You take last years money for the same slot, and add in a % for the expanding cap. And start there. There's no "you shouldn't be #1, but we took you anyway. But we'll pay you 1.09 money." The agent would stand up, walk out of the room and that would be the end of it. I'm sure teams would love to do it, but it wouldn't stand a chance. Not to mentiom the NFLPA would flip out. They'll be giving 60-80mil to whoever they pick, 80mil if it's a QB.

You might be right with a top 5 pick but I think you would be wrong with a pick in the 10-15 range. There would be no sitting out because Detroit would have the contract signed before the player was picked. They could even negotiate with a couple of players. The NFLPA could flip out all they want but they would have no leverage. The agent could walk out but a player that knows he isn't going top 10 would be stupid not to take the deal and they could replace the agent. BTW this is essentially what they are doing now but with more money involved and with the top 3 picks. The NFL screws themselves on this by not allowing teams other than the one with the #1 pick to negotiate contracts. If the number 2 team could negotiate right after the number 1 gets a deal done etc they could get much better deals and the money would be based on this year's contracts instead of last years. The team has a huge amount of leverage before the draft but most of it goes away as soon as the teams spends their pick on the player.

 

[fatness]

Why aren't the Lions going to sign a top prospect?

The OP is suggesting that the Lions not sign a top prospect. I'm saying it's a dumb idea.

What if the Lions who have two #1s and the first in the second which is almost like 3 #1s...... called the # 12-15 prospect and said.."We will draft you #1 overall..even though you are projected to go 10-15...yet we will pay you what the #7 got paid last year if you sign before the draft.

 

[Da Guru]

Take "The Lions out of the equation." Use any team as a example.

This was talked about yesterday on a local sports show. No team wants the #1 pick anymore due to having to overpay so much. It is very hard to trade down unless a can`t miss stud QB is coming out.

 

[coolnerd]

Thr problem with the concept being is that the contract is based on where the player IS ACTUALLY picked versus where he thought to be picked. Once the Lions or any team selects a player, whether ranked by the pundits etc as the number #1, #5 #37, he is the 1st pick in the draft and will get paid as such. While this reads like semantics, the idea is that there is not a player tagged as the number #7 player overall in the draft, but a player who is selected number 7 in the draft. This year there is a player who almost no one talking about the draft is taking in the top 20, but will be selected in the top 10 and his value is by the selected position pre-draft ranking.

 

[Tyrion]

Thr problem with the concept being is that the contract is based on where the player IS ACTUALLY picked versus where he thought to be picked. Once the Lions or any team selects a player, whether ranked by the pundits etc as the number #1, #5 #37, he is the 1st pick in the draft and will get paid as such. While this reads like semantics, the idea is that there is not a player tagged as the number #7 player overall in the draft, but a player who is selected number 7 in the draft. This year there is a player who almost no one talking about the draft is taking in the top 20, but will be selected in the top 10 and his value is by the selected position pre-draft ranking.

There is nothing in the collective bargaining agreement or anywhere else that says the #1 pick has to be paid a certain amount of money. The bolded is the key part of this. Detroit, since they have the #1 pick, can work out a deal with a player before they make the selection. After you make a selection it does put the team in a difficult spot because they don't want to see that player hold out and go back into the draft the next season and therefor waste a pick.

That is why I think the nfl should allow teams to negotiate with players before the draft as soon as the team in front of them signs a player to a deal. Now this might be a collective bargaining agreement issue but I have heard sports writers comment on this before and they did not mention it.

 

[coolnerd]

Thr problem with the concept being is that the contract is based on where the player IS ACTUALLY picked versus where he thought to be picked. Once the Lions or any team selects a player, whether ranked by the pundits etc as the number #1, #5 #37, he is the 1st pick in the draft and will get paid as such. While this reads like semantics, the idea is that there is not a player tagged as the number #7 player overall in the draft, but a player who is selected number 7 in the draft. This year there is a player who almost no one talking about the draft is taking in the top 20, but will be selected in the top 10 and his value is by the selected position pre-draft ranking.

There is nothing in the collective bargaining agreement or anywhere else that says the #1 pick has to be paid a certain amount of money. The bolded is the key part of this. Detroit, since they have the #1 pick, can work out a deal with a player before they make the selection. After you make a selection it does put the team in a difficult spot because they don't want to see that player hold out and go back into the draft the next season and therefor waste a pick.

That is why I think the nfl should allow teams to negotiate with players before the draft as soon as the team in front of them signs a player to a deal. Now this might be a collective bargaining agreement issue but I have heard sports writers comment on this before and they did not mention it.

If you are saying that the player selected at number 1 and the team can agree to a contract for less than the so-called market value of the pick, yes there is nothing stopping the parties for agreeing to that type of deal. The NFL does not an "official" slotting sytem, so in theory what the OP suggest is possible, but the reality of what takes place is a largley a slotting system. ..i.e. where the player is picked determines how much money he is going to get. Without changes to collective bargaining system, I doubt that any team will step too far out of line in trying to get a cheaper cap figure while holding the number overall pick. Until a couple of years ago, the system was assumed to be as you are proposing, but I think in the last handful of years when the number 1 overall was signed before the draft, the league said that bargaining by the 2nd team and whatever player was not allowed. (BTW, if my memory is working the reason given by the NFL was a can of spit) . As much as anything I don't think the NFL wants its off-season showcase destroyed by having 4, 5, 8 or 12 picks signed before the event. That said, I don't think merely giving that power is significant enough leverage (understanding that is more leverage) for either side to force lesser deals to get done.

 

[phillyphan07]

I think this is going to be a big deal in the next round of labor discussions. I think the owners are going to start pushing for an NBA contract system where the money is basically decided by your draft slots. Players might be able to argue for certain incentives (voidable years for example) but I think the owners are really going to try to reign in the rookies.

I also think the NFLPA will fold on this issue pretty quickly because a lot of the current NFL players are pissed off the rookies get so much money without ever playing a down.

 

[renesauz]

I think this is going to be a big deal in the next round of labor discussions. I think the owners are going to start pushing for an NBA contract system where the money is basically decided by your draft slots. Players might be able to argue for certain incentives (voidable years for example) but I think the owners are really going to try to reign in the rookies.I also think the NFLPA will fold on this issue pretty quickly because a lot of the current NFL players are pissed off the rookies get so much money without ever playing a down.

I agree with you, but the problem really only applies to the first 12 - 15 picks. After the 2nd round, any player who actually makes a roster and sticks around is a HUGE bargain for the teams...IE: They are almost always grossly UNDERPAID. Players in the bottom of the first into the second round are overpaid as depth backups, but often badly underpaid as starters.With that in mind, the issue of a rookie cap is a bit more complicated then it first appears. FWIW, I'd expect the union to do something to improve overall pay for the latter rookies while agreeing to some sort of cap system for early pick rookies.