Who has the Right-of-Way? (1 Viewer)

[Keerock]

The answer to this question is always "me".

 

[Sinn Fein]

Haven't read through the entire thread ... but the California and Ohio laws you've cited don't cover the situation you've described in the OP. The CA and OH laws you've cited cover vehicles turning off of a 'major' road (well, for OH, more major than 'an alley, private road, or driveway') onto 'lesser' roads. The cars in your OP are doing the opposite -- going from lesser roads onto major roads. IMHO, that makes a big difference and brings the typical stop-sign rules into play.

A lot depends on the nature of the 'major' road in the OP. Two lanes separated by a double line, with traffic going 35-45 mph in opposite directions? Or four lanes going each way at 55-60 mph with a huge median? Or something else?

Therein lies the problem.  There are no "typical stop-sign rules" for two-way stops.

And the statutes cited refer to all roadways - not "Major" roadways.

 

[Doug B]

Its not a 4-lane road.  Its a 3-lane road.  1 lane in either direction, with a turning lan in the middle - which was clear at the time.

These kinds of 3-lane roads are rare in the N.O. area (medians are prevalent on any major-ish road because of the many canals). But what a lot of people do around here is use that middle turning lane as a merging lane -- your Car A and Car B turn into the intersection close to simultaneously, Car B in the driving lane and Car A into the turning lane. Car waits a few seconds then merges over into the driving lane behind Car B.

If traffic is too heavy to make this feasible, fuster-clucks, near-accidents, and incidents of road rage ensue :(

 

[Sinn Fein]

These kinds of 3-lane roads are rare in the N.O. area (medians are prevalent on any major-ish road because of the many canals). But what a lot of people do around here is use that middle turning lane as a merging lane -- your Car A and Car B turn into the intersection close to simultaneously, Car B in the driving lane and Car A into the turning lane. Car waits a few seconds then merges over into the driving lane behind Car B.

If traffic is too heavy to make this feasible, fuster-clucks, near-accidents, and incidents of road rage ensue :(

No question - as with @mr roboto above, I think in a normal situation, both cars begin the turn at roughly the same time - right-turn car should make the turn quicker, and left turn car tucks in behind, or in this scenario, at least turns into the turning lane, and then merge into the traffic lane.

I also think, in this scenario, the left-turning car is in the better position to see the traffic - since it is all in front of him - the right-turning car will be looking away from the left, once a determination is made that the traffic is clear.  Thus, the duty is greater on the car who is in a better position to see obstructions in the intersections.

 

[Doug B]

Therein lies the problem.  There are no "typical stop-sign rules" for two-way stops.

And the statutes cited refer to all roadways - not "Major" roadways.

Around here, "typical stop sign rules" fall back to "first come, first served"  I don't really know the letter of the local traffic statutes, but that's the way practically everyone drives locally.

As far as major roadways or not: I read the CA and OH statutes differently -- I'm not concerned that they don't use the term "major". Since the OH law does use the terms "alleys, driveways, etc." they are trying to make some kind of distinction. I make that distinction at main drags vs back streets/residential streets (roughly). Others' MMW.

...

There is actually a similar intersection to the one in the OP two blocks from my house. The main drag (only 30 mph, though) is actually two lanes in each direction with a median. Neighborhoods on both sides feed into the main drag. I often find my self in the OP's situation ... me in Car B just pulling up to a stop sign and ready to turn right looking over at Car A who has already been waiting at the median crossover to turn left (at this point, Car A is committed and cannot backup, turn right, and U-turn).

A common maneuver is simply for both cars to turn almost simultaneously -- Car A into the left lane, Car B into the right (which, I know, wasn't available to the cars in the OP). In denser traffic, often one car hand-signals to the other to go ahead and turn. I will always hand-signal to a car that's aiming to turn left if they were there before me  In turn, most often when I am at the stop sign first, I get waved through. Again, don't know the letter of the law here -- we just handle it our own way. Yes, the occasional impatient and/or oblivious person can make things a little hairy if they misread cues or go off in a hurry or something. Such is life.

 

[Juxtatarot]

My state (Illinois) doesn't seem to cover this in the "rules of the road" booklet.  I assumed the 4 ways stop sign rules would apply to 2 ways.

 

[belljr]

These kinds of 3-lane roads are rare in the N.O. area (medians are prevalent on any major-ish road because of the many canals). But what a lot of people do around here is use that middle turning lane as a merging lane -- your Car A and Car B turn into the intersection close to simultaneously, Car B in the driving lane and Car A into the turning lane. Car waits a few seconds then merges over into the driving lane behind Car B.

If traffic is too heavy to make this feasible, fuster-clucks, near-accidents, and incidents of road rage ensue :(

oh yes - the middle lane pull out and wait is common here on these types of roads.  The 5 laner

 

[mr roboto]

I hate the ‘use the median/turn lane as an acceleration lane’ trick. 

In Illinois they had these ‘raised’ medians that were raised maybe 1” or so. People would drive up onto them to use them as turn lanes. 

 

[Doug B]

I mean in actual practice if you both start your turn at the same time Car A will likely tuck right in behind Car B. #### right of way it’s like synchronized swimming. 

This is sensible, too, depending on the layout of the intersection. With a third turning lane like Sinn Fein is talking about, the extra time Car A needs to clear the intersection should give Car B just time enough to turn right. Works even better if Car A is paying attention and things to pause a beat before turning left, making the right turn less harrowing for Car B.

Of course, that depends on the size of the available gaps on the main drag. If it's dense traffic ... people are more liable to go on tilt.