Who is the #38 best baskeball player of all-time? (1 Viewer)

[Frostillicus]

1. Michael Jordan (71%)
2. Lebron james (85%).
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (34%).
4. Wilt Chamberlain (31%).
5. Magic Johnson (33%).
6. Larry Bird (44%).
7. Bill Russell (67%).
8. Shaquille O'Neal (31%)
9. Tim Duncan (53%).
10. Hakeem Olajuwon (36%).
11. Kobe Bryant (37%).
12. Oscar Robertson (49%).
13. Stephen Curry (74%).
14. Julius Erving (37%).
15. Moses Malone (38%).
16. Kevin Durant (38%).
17. David Robinson (41%).
18. Jerry West (37%)
19. Charles Barkley (42%).
20. Kevin Garnett (27%).
21. Karl Malone (32%).
22. Elgin Baylor (29%).
23. Nikola Jokic (41%).
24. Giannis Antetokounmpo (45%).
25. Dirk Nowitzki (77%).
26. Scottie Pippen (29%).
27. Bob Pettit (34%).
28. John Stockton (35%).
29. Dwyane Wade (33%).
30. Chris Paul (25%).
31. Allen Iverson (39%).
32. Isiah Thomas (38%).
33. Rick Barry (29%).
34. Bob Cousy (33%).
35. John Havlicek (38%).
36. Steve Nash (25%).
37. George Mikan (31%).
38. ????????????

 

[Gally]

This is tough one for me. I just don't think Leonard had enough longevity to be this high. Peak level for sure but I think longevity does play a part. I went Drexler as he was at a higher high than Kidd. It came down to those two for me.

 

[Zow]

This is tough one for me. I just don't think Leonard had enough longevity to be this high. Peak level for sure but I think longevity does play a part. I went Drexler as he was at a higher high than Kidd. It came down to those two for me.

This is why I didn't vote for Kawhi sooner, but am comfortable doing so now. His peak surpasses the rest of the guy's on this list (aside from maybe peak regular season Harden when he isn't quitting).

 

[Frostillicus]

One more run through for votes.

 

[Yo Mama]

To me, Kawhi’s career to this point is similar to Bill Walton’s (incredible peak derailed by injuries and weird laughs), and should be treated similarly in all time rankings.

 

[Kev4029]

To me, Kawhi’s career to this point is similar to Bill Walton’s (incredible peak derailed by injuries and weird laughs), and should be treated similarly in all time rankings.

That's where I am too. Kawhi has had more impactful years than Walton had but Walton had a higher, albeit, shorter peak. I also give him a bump (even though it isn't really part of this) for being one of the best college players of all time. I also think that Kawhi's defense has gotten overstated/overrated in the back half of his career. There has been a converse relationship to his defense vs his offense, which is typical, plus his lower body injuries have really slowed him down on that end since the end of his San Antonio days. If he can come back healthy and give 2-3 more All-NBA level seasons he's worthy of discussion somewhere in the mid-to-late 20s, but I just don't see him in the late 30s currently.

Ultimately, I think both Kawhi and Walton should be more in the discussion around 45-55 rather than 38.

 

[Jayrod]

The ultimate goal in the NBA is to be the best for a season and win a championship.

Kawhi has done so twice as the best player on his team and lead them there. Also he has twice been the best defender in the entire league. He has had 5 elite seasons, twice as many as Walton, and finished top 5 in MVP voting 3 times.

This isn't a single season or even just 2 of greatness. He's been one of the best players in the NBA for 7-8 years and is still a major player this season at 32 years old.

He has surpassed Walton by a good bit and him vs. Ewing is another peak vs longevity debate. I don't think Ewing was ever as good as Leonard's 5 best seasons. That's a pretty big gap, IMO.

I am a big believer in advanced stats because they try to tell us the facts without getting emotion or bias in the way.

Ewing's best WS/48 was .211 in 93-94, Leonard has surpassed that 5 times.
Ewing's best BPM was 5.5 in 89-90, Leonard has surpassed that 8 times.
Ewing's best PER was 25.8 in 89-90, Leonard has surpassed that 5 times.
Ewing's best VORP was 6.0 in 89-90, Leonard has surpassed that 2 times.

Bill Walton had 1, maybe 2 seasons on par with Leonard, 76-77 and then his partial year of 77-78. He has 2 rings, but one was as a 6th man playing 19 mpg.

Leonard surpasses both of these guys IMO.

 

[thecatch]

To me, Kawhi’s career to this point is similar to Bill Walton’s (incredible peak derailed by injuries and weird laughs), and should be treated similarly in all time rankings.

That's where I am too. Kawhi has had more impactful years than Walton had but Walton had a higher, albeit, shorter peak. I also give him a bump (even though it isn't really part of this) for being one of the best college players of all time. I also think that Kawhi's defense has gotten overstated/overrated in the back half of his career. There has been a converse relationship to his defense vs his offense, which is typical, plus his lower body injuries have really slowed him down on that end since the end of his San Antonio days. If he can come back healthy and give 2-3 more All-NBA level seasons he's worthy of discussion somewhere in the mid-to-late 20s, but I just don't see him in the late 30s currently.

Ultimately, I think both Kawhi and Walton should be more in the discussion around 45-55 rather than 38.

Eh, everyone on this current list has some pretty significant reasons why they shouldn't be ranked this high. Like a couple of others mentioned, I'm comfortable heavily weighing Kawhi's peak and ranking him here. The number of guys who have been the unquestioned alpha on multiple title winners is pretty short.

 

[TripItUp]

Kawhi
Ewing
Westbrook

My current top 3

 

[TripItUp]

To me, Kawhi’s career to this point is similar to Bill Walton’s (incredible peak derailed by injuries and weird laughs), and should be treated similarly in all time rankings.

Unless you value peak years more than stat accumulator slugs(like LeFraud)

which I do

Give me lightning in a bottle every time

 

[Gally]

I am surprised by the Ewing love at this point. Maybe I need to go back and look at his career a bit.

 

[Tick]

Dolph Schayes should be on the list by now.

 

[Despyzer]

I am surprised by the Ewing love at this point. Maybe I need to go back and look at his career a bit.

I am too... didn't Bill Simmons statistically prove that Ewing's teams were better when he wasn't playing?

 

[Despyzer]

Being the career leader in both steals and assists doesn't gain a person much respect around these parts.

 

[msudaisy26]

I am surprised by the Ewing love at this point. Maybe I need to go back and look at his career a bit.

I am too... didn't Bill Simmons statistically prove that Ewing's teams were better when he wasn't playing?

I believe that was one year, during the strike shorten season when the Knicks as an 8 seed made a run to the finals. Ewing was like 37 years old.

 

[Despyzer]

I am surprised by the Ewing love at this point. Maybe I need to go back and look at his career a bit.

I am too... didn't Bill Simmons statistically prove that Ewing's teams were better when he wasn't playing?

I believe that was one year, during the strike shorten season when the Knicks as an 8 seed made a run to the finals. Ewing was like 37 years old.

What do you base that belief on? It's petty easy to look up.

 

[thecatch]

I am surprised by the Ewing love at this point. Maybe I need to go back and look at his career a bit.

I am too... didn't Bill Simmons statistically prove that Ewing's teams were better when he wasn't playing?

I believe that was one year, during the strike shorten season when the Knicks as an 8 seed made a run to the finals. Ewing was like 37 years old.

What do you base that belief on? It's petty easy to look up.

That's not exactly statistical proof.

 

[the moops]

I am surprised by the Ewing love at this point. Maybe I need to go back and look at his career a bit.

I am too... didn't Bill Simmons statistically prove that Ewing's teams were better when he wasn't playing?

I believe that was one year, during the strike shorten season when the Knicks as an 8 seed made a run to the finals. Ewing was like 37 years old.

What do you base that belief on? It's petty easy to look up.

Simmons is an idiot.

The Ewing theory, relitigated

There’s nothing worse in sports than being called a loser. Once you’re flagged as someone who can’t win, it follows you like a pungent smell. The stench of purported failure... Read more The post The Ewing theory, relitigated appeared first on The Georgetown Voice.

m.georgetown.edu

 

[msudaisy26]

I am surprised by the Ewing love at this point. Maybe I need to go back and look at his career a bit.

I am too... didn't Bill Simmons statistically prove that Ewing's teams were better when he wasn't playing?

I believe that was one year, during the strike shorten season when the Knicks as an 8 seed made a run to the finals. Ewing was like 37 years old.

What do you base that belief on? It's petty easy to look up.

Is it? It was an opinion piece that I didn't necessarily agree with back then and I wasn't going to relook it up and go over it again. Plus as many have said Simmons isn't the most reliable.

 

[Despyzer]

I am surprised by the Ewing love at this point. Maybe I need to go back and look at his career a bit.

I am too... didn't Bill Simmons statistically prove that Ewing's teams were better when he wasn't playing?

I believe that was one year, during the strike shorten season when the Knicks as an 8 seed made a run to the finals. Ewing was like 37 years old.

What do you base that belief on? It's petty easy to look up.

That's not exactly statistical proof.

Yeah, I mistakenly thought there was some statistical analysis in such a well-known sports theory. Still, how many of the other names on this list have been so broadly and seriously argued to make their teams worse with their simple existence? This was made famous by Bill Simmons, but obviously it went way beyond him.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Yeah, I mistakenly thought there was some statistical analysis in such a well-known sports theory. Still, how many of the other names on this list have been so broadly and seriously argued to make their teams worse with their simple existence? This was made famous by Bill Simmons, but obviously it went way beyond him.

It only went beyond Simmons because people parroted his unresearched nonsense. And I wouldn't consider it a serious argument. Maybe people took it seriously, but people take conspiracy theories seriously too.

Ewing was 36, coming off a major injury, and performing well below career norms in 98-99. And he was still playing when the Knicks beat the top-seeded Heat and then swept the Hawks in the playoffs. His on-off that season was -0.1, basically neutral.

Even if you concede that the Knicks might have been better without him that year, to extend that to his peak years is ludicrous. He was +7.8 in 96-97 and +4.5 in 97-98. That's as far back as the PBP data goes, but I can't imagine he was hurting the Knicks in the late 80s and early 90s when his numbers were at their best.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I may be a bit too old school but some of these names being considered with out Kevin McHale as an option seems off to me.

I think the few people on here that got to see him play likely only saw him after his body had broken down. When he was young he was an extremely versatile defensive player to go a long with his elite low post game.

 

[Frostillicus]

I may be a bit too old school but some of these names being considered with out Kevin McHale as an option seems off to me.

I think the few people on here that got to see him play likely only saw him after his body had broken down. When he was young he was an extremely versatile defensive player to go a long with his elite low post game.

McHale is comig soon.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I may be a bit too old school but some of these names being considered with out Kevin McHale as an option seems off to me.

I think the few people on here that got to see him play likely only saw him after his body had broken down. When he was young he was an extremely versatile defensive player to go a long with his elite low post game.

McHale is comig soon.

I am not saying he belongs this high per say (although there are rankings that do place him in the 30's.)

I am more saying that an abject loser like Harden being considered before McHale kills me.

 

[Jayrod]

I may be a bit too old school but some of these names being considered with out Kevin McHale as an option seems off to me.

I think the few people on here that got to see him play likely only saw him after his body had broken down. When he was young he was an extremely versatile defensive player to go a long with his elite low post game.

McHale is comig soon.

I am not saying he belongs this high per say (although there are rankings that do place him in the 30's.)

I am more saying that an abject loser like Harden being considered before McHale kills me.

I've always liked what McHale brought to the table, but any notion that he is on the same level on the court as Harden is kind of silly.

For several years in a league with Curry, Durant and LeBron; Harden was the best offensive player in the league.

 

[NewlyRetired]

I may be a bit too old school but some of these names being considered with out Kevin McHale as an option seems off to me.

I think the few people on here that got to see him play likely only saw him after his body had broken down. When he was young he was an extremely versatile defensive player to go a long with his elite low post game.

McHale is comig soon.

I am not saying he belongs this high per say (although there are rankings that do place him in the 30's.)

I am more saying that an abject loser like Harden being considered before McHale kills me.

I've always liked what McHale brought to the table, but any notion that he is on the same level on the court as Harden is kind of silly.

For several years in a league with Curry, Durant and LeBron; Harden was the best offensive player in the league.

I am not a stats only type of fan. I enjoy watching to see how players make others around them better, how they perform in the biggest games, things like that.

Harden was unquestionably a phenomenal individual talent at his peak but this is a team sport and I think all facets need to be considered.

It is not a coincidence to me that Harden only has been to a single NBA finals and that is when he was far from the focal part of the offense and was just a good team member.

 

[Jayrod]

I may be a bit too old school but some of these names being considered with out Kevin McHale as an option seems off to me.

I think the few people on here that got to see him play likely only saw him after his body had broken down. When he was young he was an extremely versatile defensive player to go a long with his elite low post game.

McHale is comig soon.

I am not saying he belongs this high per say (although there are rankings that do place him in the 30's.)

I am more saying that an abject loser like Harden being considered before McHale kills me.

I've always liked what McHale brought to the table, but any notion that he is on the same level on the court as Harden is kind of silly.

For several years in a league with Curry, Durant and LeBron; Harden was the best offensive player in the league.

I am not a stats only type of fan. I enjoy watching to see how players make others around them better, how they perform in the biggest games, things like that.

Harden was unquestionably a phenomenal individual talent at his peak but this is a team sport and I think all facets need to be considered.

It is not a coincidence to me that Harden only has been to a single NBA finals and that is when he was far from the focal part of the offense and was just a good team member.

I get that as a factor, but we aren't even discussing McHale yet if he didn't get to play on a team with Larry Bird for his entire prime.

Harden finished top 3 in MVP voting 5 times (and winning once). McHale finished 4th once and only received votes 2 more times.

Again, they aren't in the same realm in any way outside of team success.

McHale is closer to Rodman than James Harden.

 

[TripItUp]

Simmons is an idiot.

this

 

[Spartans Rule]

Harden was MVP in 17-18, the Rockets were 65-17, and if Chris Paul doesn’t strain his hamstring in game 5 of the WCF there’s a good chance they win it all and we’re talking about both players a lot differently.