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Who is the #4 best NBA player of all-time? (1 Viewer)

Who is #4?

  • Magic Johnson

    Votes: 25 25.3%

  • Bill Russell

    Votes: 16 16.2%

  • Wilt Chamberlain

    Votes: 30 30.3%

  • Larry Bird

    Votes: 14 14.1%

  • Shaquille O'Neal

    Votes: 3 3.0%

  • Kobe Bryant

    Votes: 6 6.1%

  • Oscar Robertson

    Votes: 1 1.0%

  • Tim Duncan

    Votes: 3 3.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Total voters
    99
Frostillicus

Frostillicus

Footballguy
With the top two easily settled and #3 already done, who is #4?

1. Michael Jordan (71%)
2. Lebron james (85%).
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (34%).
4. ?????????????????
 
When I was an MSU student the team would play an exhibition every year against the "Magic Johnson All-Stars" which was him and a bunch of random ex-college players. He was 40 and out of shape but my god, the passing. Never seen so many layup assists from halfcourt. Part of that was because if he went very far past there he couldn't get back on defense, but still.

So I have my biases but I don't know if I could rank him #4. Never really a great defender and there's so many 2-way monsters on this list.
 
I voted for Magic, by the way. He's my childhood hero so I might be biased, but I think he's a clear 4th behind MJ/LBJ/Kareem (in that order). Changed the game, came up in the clutch when i mattered, a whole bunch of awards and titles.

Interesting to think that he was just 31 when he retired (the first time - I cried for like a week and wore Magic Johnson t-shirts to school for like a month straight - yes I had more than 5) and was still in his prime (#2 in MVP voting that year).

If he plays another, say, 5 years he ends up #2 in all-time assists with a chance at #1 (is #7 now), #25 in points (currently #86), #55 in rebounds (currently #148), 8th in steals (#23 now), #2 in triple doubles (#2 now still ahead of Lebron also currently #1 in playoff triple doubles), not to mention more chances at MVPs, titles, and finals MVPs.

In other words, Magic is obviously the best player of all-time and if his career hadn't been cut short it would be obvious.
 
TripItUp said:
Frostillicus said:
TripItUp said:
6And Lebron James is the most overrated player in the history of the Association...yuck.
Click to expand...
Where would you rate him, and why would you say he's overrated?
Click to expand...

I have him #8.

Have to dominate on the defensive end or be an elite creator/closer to be top 5.


All of the fanboys point to his stats...he's a stat accumulator.
Click to expand...
6x all-defense not enough? Also I don't think I've heard anyone describe Lebron has a non-elite creator.
 
TripItUp said:
Frostillicus said:
TripItUp said:
And Lebron James is the most overrated player in the history of the Association...yuck.
Click to expand...
Where would you rate him, and why would you say he's overrated?
Click to expand...

I have him #8.

Have to dominate on the defensive end or be an elite creator/closer to be top 5.


All of the fanboys point to his stats...he's a stat accumulator.
Click to expand...
Per game rankings (all-time):
Points: 3rd
Assists: 24th
Rebounds: 94th

Seems pretty good.
 
Magic is a very popular player, but he's not Wilt IMO.

Also IMO, David Robinson needs to be added to the list.

ETA, and related, I'm getting my complaint about Kobe being overrated by like 20 spots in ahead of time.
 
So I guess I need to make my anti-Magic rant now instead of next round.

1. In the NBA, when they were both healthy, Bird was better. He won ROY over Magic and from 1984-86 before Bird's injury he won 3 straight MVP's, 2 rings and 2 Finals MVP's. If it wasn't for Bird's back injury this isn't even a debate.
2. Magic wasn't a good defender.
3. Magic wasn't a good shooter (didn't really need to as an oversized guard, but he shot 30% on about 1,000 total 3's for his career).
4. He played his entire career with the guy we already ranked #3. If people knock Jordan for needing Pippen to win, how is it not a knock on Magic that he won because he played with the greatest center of all time?

Magic is great. The greatest PG of all time without much debate there. However, he still isn't #4 overall.

My vote is for Wilt. Him and Russell are the only 2 guys who you could just pluck out of their era and drop them into today's game and they'd still be competitive. Wilt is the single greatest force to ever play in any era in his utter dominance on both ends. Russell always just had a much better team with Cousy, the Joneses, Sharman & Havlicek. Wilt was a surly dude, but he also carried teams to the Finals single-handedly. Did end up with 2 rings and 4 MVP's to go with the insane per game averages.

And before people talk about Magic "changing the game", they literally added rules because of Wilt.
 
Jayrod said:
My vote is for Wilt. Him and Russell are the only 2 guys who you could just pluck out of their era and drop them into today's game and they'd still be competitive.
Click to expand...

Not so sure about Russel, but Wilt's athleticism was elite for today's game...there isn't a center that compares to him right now from an athleticism perspective...he was a once in a century talent IMHO.
 
Jayrod said:
So I guess I need to make my anti-Magic rant now instead of next round.

1. In the NBA, when they were both healthy, Bird was better. He won ROY over Magic and from 1984-86 before Bird's injury he won 3 straight MVP's, 2 rings and 2 Finals MVP's. If it wasn't for Bird's back injury this isn't even a debate.
2. Magic wasn't a good defender.
3. Magic wasn't a good shooter (didn't really need to as an oversized guard, but he shot 30% on about 1,000 total 3's for his career).
4. He played his entire career with the guy we already ranked #3. If people knock Jordan for needing Pippen to win, how is it not a knock on Magic that he won because he played with the greatest center of all time?

Magic is great. The greatest PG of all time without much debate there. However, he still isn't #4 overall.

My vote is for Wilt. Him and Russell are the only 2 guys who you could just pluck out of their era and drop them into today's game and they'd still be competitive. Wilt is the single greatest force to ever play in any era in his utter dominance on both ends. Russell always just had a much better team with Cousy, the Joneses, Sharman & Havlicek. Wilt was a surly dude, but he also carried teams to the Finals single-handedly. Did end up with 2 rings and 4 MVP's to go with the insane per game averages.

And before people talk about Magic "changing the game", they literally added rules because of Wilt.
Click to expand...
Great post. Love it. I had Bird at 4.
 
Jayrod said:
Magic wasn't a good shooter (didn't really need to as an oversized guard, but he shot 30% on about 1,000 total 3's for his career).
Click to expand...
To be fair, if you look at most point guards from the 80s, they're all like 2 for 27 or 8 for 43 on 3-pointers every year. It's presumably a lot of heaves and shot clock winding down type stuff. That was Magic for much of his career.

His last few years he actually shot a decent volume from 3 and made a respectable .346.
 
Jayrod said:
If it wasn't for Bird's back injury this isn't even a debate.
Click to expand...
A lot of people point to Bird's back as his downfall when in reality, his drop from the elite came due to having BOTH of his Achilles tendons operated on at the same time. He never regained his first step (which was deceivingly fast for a goofy looking white guy) after that dual surgery and long lay off.

The back was of course an ongoing issue but he was still playing at an MVP level after he hurt his back in 1985.

But the back was a degenerative issue that got worse over time and did eventually cause him to retire but I think it was more the Achilles that originally caused the drop from elite to just great player.
 
I remember watching a game where Bird dove for a loose ball and absolutely slammed his face into the floor. I think that was right after his big back issue. Dude left it all out there for sure and I am a big fan, but Magic was the better player by a hair.
 
Frostillicus said:
I remember watching a game where Bird dove for a loose ball and absolutely slammed his face into the floor. I think that was right after his big back issue. Dude left it all out there for sure and I am a big fan, but Magic was the better player by a hair.
Click to expand...
That was relatively late in Bird's career in 1991.

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I ding Bird and Magic for lack of elite defense. Both good defenders but not Kobe/Kareem/MJ elite.

ETA: Magic was versatile on defense but never made all NBA defense team. No way is Magic top 5 all time.
 
Jayrod said:
So I guess I need to make my anti-Magic rant now instead of next round.

1. In the NBA, when they were both healthy, Bird was better. He won ROY over Magic and from 1984-86 before Bird's injury he won 3 straight MVP's, 2 rings and 2 Finals MVP's. If it wasn't for Bird's back injury this isn't even a debate.
2. Magic wasn't a good defender.
3. Magic wasn't a good shooter (didn't really need to as an oversized guard, but he shot 30% on about 1,000 total 3's for his career).
4. He played his entire career with the guy we already ranked #3. If people knock Jordan for needing Pippen to win, how is it not a knock on Magic that he won because he played with the greatest center of all time?

Magic is great. The greatest PG of all time without much debate there. However, he still isn't #4 overall.

My vote is for Wilt. Him and Russell are the only 2 guys who you could just pluck out of their era and drop them into today's game and they'd still be competitive. Wilt is the single greatest force to ever play in any era in his utter dominance on both ends. Russell always just had a much better team with Cousy, the Joneses, Sharman & Havlicek. Wilt was a surly dude, but he also carried teams to the Finals single-handedly. Did end up with 2 rings and 4 MVP's to go with the insane per game averages.

And before people talk about Magic "changing the game", they literally added rules because of Wilt.
Click to expand...
I agree. Magic gets extra points for his flash and likability factor. He was great. He was a winner. But some of these guys are ahead of him.
 
Dude flashes a smile, plays with the GOAT (up to that time), celebrates a no look pass and you all think he's better than Wilt, Russell and Bird?

He's almost as overrated as Kobe.

LeBron has it figured out, win a title with the Lakers and everyone thinks you are better than you are.
 
NewlyRetired said:
Frostillicus said:
I remember watching a game where Bird dove for a loose ball and absolutely slammed his face into the floor. I think that was right after his big back issue. Dude left it all out there for sure and I am a big fan, but Magic was the better player by a hair.
Click to expand...
That was relatively late in Bird's career in 1991.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
Click to expand...
Game 5 against the Pacers. One of the most memorable 2nd halves I've ever seen.
 
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