Who is the #5 best NBA player of all-time? (1 Viewer)

[Frostillicus]

1. Michael Jordan (71%)
2. Lebron james (85%).
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (34%).
4. Wilt chamberlain (31%).
5. ????????????????????

 

[Jayrod]

He's probably going to win this one, but shouldn't.

Voted Russell just because he has the best chance.

#anyonebutMagic

 

[HellToupee]

This Lakers bias is . Plain and simple

 

[BassNBrew]

Couldn't decided between Bird and Magic so I went Russell

 

[fruity pebbles]

I think Bird was better than Magic at their respective peaks and since the poll is looking for best all time, I went with Larry.

 

[facook]

I think Bird was better than Magic at their respective peaks and since the poll is looking for best all time, I went with Larry.

Same.

Shooting matters. Bird was the master. Magic figured out how to be ok.

 

[TripItUp]

Kobe, not close for me.

I ding Russell for not being nearly as dominant in today's game.

I ding Bird and Magic for lacking elite defensive skills.

 

[Anarchy99]

BTW, last year The Athletic effectively did what we are doing here. They surveyed all their staff to end up with a list of the Top 75 NBA players. Their Top 25 ended up as:

01 - MJ
02 - LBJ
03 - Kareem
04 - Russell
05 - Magic
06 - Wilt
07 - Bird
08 - Shaq
09 - Duncan
10 - Kobe
11 - Olajuwon
12 - Robertson
13 - KD
14 - West
15 - Steph
16 - Mailman
17 - KG
18 - Moses
19 - Dr. J.
20 - Admiral
21 - Dirk
22 - Barkley
23 - Baylor
24 - Giannis
25 - Stockton

 

[nirad3]

Magic for me. Changed the game.

 

[Frostillicus]

Close one so far.

 

[FatMax]

Kobe, not close for me.

I ding Russell for not being nearly as dominant in today's game.

I ding Bird and Magic for lacking elite defensive skills.

Kobe barely sniffs the top 30 in career player efficiency rating. In fact, the only list he absolutely dominates is missed field goals.

 

[TripItUp]

Kobe barely sniffs the top 30 in career player efficiency rating. In fact, the only list he absolutely dominates is missed field goals.

fully aware of the efficiency stats and stats in general, he was also the only player on a lot of bad teams that negatively impacted those stats not to mention playing many years in the handcheck era.

Stat boys love Lebron.

Actual NBA players favor Kobe because they see right through those stats...and also value the defensive side of the ball more.

The "here are the stats" arguments are numbingly lazy... its astounding how many lean on those arguments.

 

[the moops]

Actual NBA players favor Kobe because they see right through those stats...and also value the defensive side of the ball more.

Kobe was a good, not great defensive player. You are way leaning into something that is fiction

 

[TripItUp]

Kobe was a good, not great defensive player.

Strongly disagree.

He's one of the best perimeter defenders of all time and his defensive honors/awards fall in line with that take.

 

[the moops]

Kobe was a good, not great defensive player.

Strongly disagree.

He's one of the best perimeter defenders of all time and his defensive honors/awards fall in line with that take.

So stats are garbage and should be ignored but honors and awards are all good. Got it

Also Kobe has one MVP, Lebron has 4. Do those awards matter?

 

[dkp993]

BTW, last year The Athletic effectively did what we are doing here. They surveyed all their staff to end up with a list of the Top 75 NBA players. Their Top 25 ended up as:

01 - MJ
02 - LBJ
03 - Kareem
04 - Russell
05 - Magic
06 - Wilt
07 - Bird
08 - Shaq
09 - Duncan
10 - Kobe
11 - Olajuwon
12 - Robertson
13 - KD
14 - West
15 - Steph
16 - Mailman
17 - KG
18 - Moses
19 - Dr. J.
20 - Admiral
21 - Dirk
22 - Barkley
23 - Baylor
24 - Giannis
25 - Stockton

I concur with the top 10 here.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Kobe barely sniffs the top 30 in career player efficiency rating. In fact, the only list he absolutely dominates is missed field goals.

fully aware of the efficiency stats and stats in general, he was also the only player on a lot of bad teams that negatively impacted those stats not to mention playing many years in the handcheck era.

Stat boys love Lebron.

Actual NBA players favor Kobe because they see right through those stats...and also value the defensive side of the ball more.

The "here are the stats" arguments are numbingly lazy... its astounding how many lean on those arguments.

Can you remind us all of the link showing that NBA players favor Kobe over LeBron?

 

[TripItUp]

Kobe barely sniffs the top 30 in career player efficiency rating. In fact, the only list he absolutely dominates is missed field goals.

fully aware of the efficiency stats and stats in general, he was also the only player on a lot of bad teams that negatively impacted those stats not to mention playing many years in the handcheck era.

Stat boys love Lebron.

Actual NBA players favor Kobe because they see right through those stats...and also value the defensive side of the ball more.

The "here are the stats" arguments are numbingly lazy... its astounding how many lean on those arguments.

Can you remind us all of the link showing that NBA players favor Kobe over LeBron?

I've listed some of their names, feel free to use google.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Kobe barely sniffs the top 30 in career player efficiency rating. In fact, the only list he absolutely dominates is missed field goals.

fully aware of the efficiency stats and stats in general, he was also the only player on a lot of bad teams that negatively impacted those stats not to mention playing many years in the handcheck era.

Stat boys love Lebron.

Actual NBA players favor Kobe because they see right through those stats...and also value the defensive side of the ball more.

The "here are the stats" arguments are numbingly lazy... its astounding how many lean on those arguments.

Can you remind us all of the link showing that NBA players favor Kobe over LeBron?

I've listed some of their names, feel free to use google.

No. It isn’t my job to prove your narrative.

 

[TripItUp]

Kobe barely sniffs the top 30 in career player efficiency rating. In fact, the only list he absolutely dominates is missed field goals.

fully aware of the efficiency stats and stats in general, he was also the only player on a lot of bad teams that negatively impacted those stats not to mention playing many years in the handcheck era.

Stat boys love Lebron.

Actual NBA players favor Kobe because they see right through those stats...and also value the defensive side of the ball more.

The "here are the stats" arguments are numbingly lazy... its astounding how many lean on those arguments.

Can you remind us all of the link showing that NBA players favor Kobe over LeBron?

I've listed some of their names, feel free to use google.

No. It isn’t my job to prove your narrative.

You just asked "can you remind us the links"

go ahead and find them

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Kobe barely sniffs the top 30 in career player efficiency rating. In fact, the only list he absolutely dominates is missed field goals.

fully aware of the efficiency stats and stats in general, he was also the only player on a lot of bad teams that negatively impacted those stats not to mention playing many years in the handcheck era.

Stat boys love Lebron.

Actual NBA players favor Kobe because they see right through those stats...and also value the defensive side of the ball more.

The "here are the stats" arguments are numbingly lazy... its astounding how many lean on those arguments.

Can you remind us all of the link showing that NBA players favor Kobe over LeBron?

I've listed some of their names, feel free to use google.

No. It isn’t my job to prove your narrative.

You just asked "can you remind us the links"

go ahead and find them

I’m interested in hearing from NBA legends and players saying recently that Kobe is better than LeBron — which you assert has happened. If you’ve posted links in these voting threads — not names, links — then shame on me for missing those.

Again, it isn’t my job to go hunt and peck for evidence that substantiates your narrative. But again, super interested in what guys say about these two, and wouldn’t be at all surprised if this was a hard core debate back 8-10 years ago.

 

[FatMax]

he was also the only player on a lot of bad teams that negatively impacted those stats not to mention playing many years in the handcheck era.

Kobe played 20 years in the league with the Lakers. In those years, the Lakers missed the playoffs four times, and two of them were when Kobe was injured for most of the season. Man, that must be rough playing on all those crappy teams. Only 16 playoff appearances.

The problem with talking about Kobe truths is that it causes normally rational basketball fans attack from a position of emotion. He's a great, great player. One of the best. But not top ten. And I know by saying that Kobe fans will feel insulted. As if somehow, saying he is not a top ten player of all time is an insult.

 

[The Z Machine]

An interesting a series of thought experiments:

If Bird rejects the Celtics contract just before the 1979 NBA draft, we would be eligible to be drafted again. Lakers had the #1 pick. Would they have taken Magic or Bird if both were available?

Knowing what each player was capable of and how they could be utilized throughout their career, who would you take if both Magin and Bird are available? Maybe assume Magic doesn't get HIV and Bird doesn't have as many injury problems.

 

[msudaisy26]

Kobe, not close for me.

I ding Russell for not being nearly as dominant in today's game.

I ding Bird and Magic for lacking elite defensive skills.

He was in his 70's and 80's though. I would ding him too harshly.

 

[msudaisy26]

BTW, last year The Athletic effectively did what we are doing here. They surveyed all their staff to end up with a list of the Top 75 NBA players. Their Top 25 ended up as:

01 - MJ
02 - LBJ
03 - Kareem
04 - Russell
05 - Magic
06 - Wilt
07 - Bird
08 - Shaq
09 - Duncan
10 - Kobe
11 - Olajuwon
12 - Robertson
13 - KD
14 - West
15 - Steph
16 - Mailman
17 - KG
18 - Moses
19 - Dr. J.
20 - Admiral
21 - Dirk
22 - Barkley
23 - Baylor
24 - Giannis
25 - Stockton

Not a bad list, but Stockton has no business being on it.

 

[msudaisy26]

Maybe this is insensitive, but it needs to be said. If Kobe didn't die tragically these arguments about him being top 5 or 10 wouldn't happen. He was a great player, but he is closer to 20 than 5 all time.

 

[AAABatteries]

BTW, last year The Athletic effectively did what we are doing here. They surveyed all their staff to end up with a list of the Top 75 NBA players. Their Top 25 ended up as:

01 - MJ
02 - LBJ
03 - Kareem
04 - Russell
05 - Magic
06 - Wilt
07 - Bird
08 - Shaq
09 - Duncan
10 - Kobe
11 - Olajuwon
12 - Robertson
13 - KD
14 - West
15 - Steph
16 - Mailman
17 - KG
18 - Moses
19 - Dr. J.
20 - Admiral
21 - Dirk
22 - Barkley
23 - Baylor
24 - Giannis
25 - Stockton

Not a bad list, but Stockton has no business being on it.

Why? Sure, some of his stats were due to longevity but all-time leader in assists and steals, #6 in WS. Seems like plenty to be considered for 25th all-time.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I ding Russell for not being nearly as dominant in today's game.

Well, he is dead.

 

[msudaisy26]

BTW, last year The Athletic effectively did what we are doing here. They surveyed all their staff to end up with a list of the Top 75 NBA players. Their Top 25 ended up as:

01 - MJ
02 - LBJ
03 - Kareem
04 - Russell
05 - Magic
06 - Wilt
07 - Bird
08 - Shaq
09 - Duncan
10 - Kobe
11 - Olajuwon
12 - Robertson
13 - KD
14 - West
15 - Steph
16 - Mailman
17 - KG
18 - Moses
19 - Dr. J.
20 - Admiral
21 - Dirk
22 - Barkley
23 - Baylor
24 - Giannis
25 - Stockton

Not a bad list, but Stockton has no business being on it.

Why? Sure, some of his stats were due to longevity but all-time leader in assists and steals, #6 in WS. Seems like plenty to be considered for 25th all-time.

He is a very good player. He isn't near a top 25 player all time.

 

[Anarchy99]

He is a very good player. He isn't near a top 25 player all time.

I don't really have much opinion of Stockton. He never had a year where he was Top 5 in MVP voting. But if we set the bar for things he ranked in the Top 25 all time in . . .

Assists per game - 2nd
Steals per game - 8th
True shooting% - 20th
Win shares/48 - 19th
Box Plus/Minus - 6th
VORP - 3rd
Offensive rating - 9th

I don't think it's clear cut one way or the other. I wouldn't say his consideration at the #25 spot is egregiously bad. I never really looked into it that much. Maybe it is and I am just not seeing it.

 

[Gally]

An interesting a series of thought experiments:

If Bird rejects the Celtics contract just before the 1979 NBA draft, we would be eligible to be drafted again. Lakers had the #1 pick. Would they have taken Magic or Bird if both were available?

Knowing what each player was capable of and how they could be utilized throughout their career, who would you take if both Magin and Bird are available? Maybe assume Magic doesn't get HIV and Bird doesn't have as many injury problems.

I think Jerry Buss still takes Magic. He wanted Showtime and a spectacle for his team. Bird wasn't doing that.

 

[Gally]

Kobe, not close for me.

I ding Russell for not being nearly as dominant in today's game.

I ding Bird and Magic for lacking elite defensive skills.

Part of my decision is based on whether or not I would have wanted to be on the same team as the player. Kobe finishes dead last in that category. He threw his teammates under the bus and he quit in games to try and prove how important he was and that they couldn't win without him. I would never want to be on a team with him. He was a great player for sure. But gets knocked down significantly for me.

 

[AAABatteries]

He is a very good player. He isn't near a top 25 player all time.

I don't really have much opinion of Stockton. He never had a year where he was Top 5 in MVP voting. But if we set the bar for things he ranked in the Top 25 all time in . . .

Assists per game - 2nd
Steals per game - 8th
True shooting% - 20th
Win shares/48 - 19th
Box Plus/Minus - 6th
VORP - 3rd
Offensive rating - 9th

I don't think it's clear cut one way or the other. I wouldn't say his consideration at the #25 spot is egregiously bad. I never really looked into it that much. Maybe it is and I am just not seeing it.

Yeah, I’m not saying he is the 25th best player but the idea that he doesn’t belong in the conversation* seems weird to me.

*which is how I’m taking daisy’s comments

 

[Jayrod]

BTW, last year The Athletic effectively did what we are doing here. They surveyed all their staff to end up with a list of the Top 75 NBA players. Their Top 25 ended up as:

01 - MJ
02 - LBJ
03 - Kareem
04 - Russell
05 - Magic
06 - Wilt
07 - Bird
08 - Shaq
09 - Duncan
10 - Kobe
11 - Olajuwon
12 - Robertson
13 - KD
14 - West
15 - Steph
16 - Mailman
17 - KG
18 - Moses
19 - Dr. J.
20 - Admiral
21 - Dirk
22 - Barkley
23 - Baylor
24 - Giannis
25 - Stockton

Not a bad list, but Stockton has no business being on it.

Why? Sure, some of his stats were due to longevity but all-time leader in assists and steals, #6 in WS. Seems like plenty to be considered for 25th all-time.

He is a very good player. He isn't near a top 25 player all time.

He's arguably the 2nd greatest PG of all time. His peak wasn't as high as some others, but he was very, very good for a very long time.

Something I never realized until looking at his stats today, he played in all 82 games 16/19 seasons. He also led the league in assists for 9 straight seasons.

 

[the moops]

He's arguably the 2nd greatest PG of all time.

No chance.

Magic, Steph, Oscar, CP3 for sure are ahead of him

 

[msudaisy26]

BTW, last year The Athletic effectively did what we are doing here. They surveyed all their staff to end up with a list of the Top 75 NBA players. Their Top 25 ended up as:

01 - MJ
02 - LBJ
03 - Kareem
04 - Russell
05 - Magic
06 - Wilt
07 - Bird
08 - Shaq
09 - Duncan
10 - Kobe
11 - Olajuwon
12 - Robertson
13 - KD
14 - West
15 - Steph
16 - Mailman
17 - KG
18 - Moses
19 - Dr. J.
20 - Admiral
21 - Dirk
22 - Barkley
23 - Baylor
24 - Giannis
25 - Stockton

Not a bad list, but Stockton has no business being on it.

Why? Sure, some of his stats were due to longevity but all-time leader in assists and steals, #6 in WS. Seems like plenty to be considered for 25th all-time.

He is a very good player. He isn't near a top 25 player all time.

He's arguably the 2nd greatest PG of all time. His peak wasn't as high as some others, but he was very, very good for a very long time.

Something I never realized until looking at his stats today, he played in all 82 games 16/19 seasons. He also led the league in assists for 9 straight seasons.

That is where we differ. I think Magic and Steph are miles ahead of him. I would also put Isaiah Thomas, Chris Paul, Oscar ahead of hik pretty easily. I am sure there are some more that I am missing.

He is Frank Gore for me. I don't think Frank Gore is a top 10 all time back, but he has stats. He is closer to top 50 than 25.

 

[TripItUp]

Stockton in the 20-25 range for me.

Great player.

 

[TripItUp]

No chance.

Magic, Steph, Oscar, CP3 for sure are ahead of him

 

[Anarchy99]

He's arguably the 2nd greatest PG of all time.

No chance.

Magic, Steph, Oscar, CP3 for sure are ahead of him

The role of a PG seems to have morphed and changed over time. When Stockton played, it was perceived more as a facilitator and distributor than that as a pure shooter or a scorer. Stockton ranks 40th all-time in PER, and I am sure there are other stats that would lead people to believe he shouldn't be in the Top 25.

 

[The Z Machine]

An interesting a series of thought experiments:

If Bird rejects the Celtics contract just before the 1979 NBA draft, we would be eligible to be drafted again. Lakers had the #1 pick. Would they have taken Magic or Bird if both were available?

Knowing what each player was capable of and how they could be utilized throughout their career, who would you take if both Magin and Bird are available? Maybe assume Magic doesn't get HIV and Bird doesn't have as many injury problems.

I think Jerry Buss still takes Magic. He wanted Showtime and a spectacle for his team. Bird wasn't doing that.

I think I agree. But who would you choose?

 

[Jayrod]

He's arguably the 2nd greatest PG of all time.

No chance.

Magic, Steph, Oscar, CP3 for sure are ahead of him

BTW, last year The Athletic effectively did what we are doing here. They surveyed all their staff to end up with a list of the Top 75 NBA players. Their Top 25 ended up as:

01 - MJ
02 - LBJ
03 - Kareem
04 - Russell
05 - Magic
06 - Wilt
07 - Bird
08 - Shaq
09 - Duncan
10 - Kobe
11 - Olajuwon
12 - Robertson
13 - KD
14 - West
15 - Steph
16 - Mailman
17 - KG
18 - Moses
19 - Dr. J.
20 - Admiral
21 - Dirk
22 - Barkley
23 - Baylor
24 - Giannis
25 - Stockton

Not a bad list, but Stockton has no business being on it.

Why? Sure, some of his stats were due to longevity but all-time leader in assists and steals, #6 in WS. Seems like plenty to be considered for 25th all-time.

He is a very good player. He isn't near a top 25 player all time.

He's arguably the 2nd greatest PG of all time. His peak wasn't as high as some others, but he was very, very good for a very long time.

Something I never realized until looking at his stats today, he played in all 82 games 16/19 seasons. He also led the league in assists for 9 straight seasons.

That is where we differ. I think Magic and Steph are miles ahead of him. I would also put Isaiah Thomas, Chris Paul, Oscar ahead of hik pretty easily. I am sure there are some more that I am missing.

He is Frank Gore for me. I don't think Frank Gore is a top 10 all time back, but he has stats. He is closer to top 50 than 25.

Wow, you are misremembering him it seems like. He has 3,715 more assists & 581 more steals than the the #2 guy (both Kidd).

Stockton was an absolutely great basketball player who ran into Michael Jordan twice (Phil Jackson said those 2 series were the greatest challenges the Bulls faced during their 6 championships). He was all-NBA 11 times (2x 1st, 6x 2nd & 3x 3rd). Isaiah Thomas is not a greater PG than him in any objective measure other than championships. Chris Paul is a modern version without the durability. I think Steph and Oscar are probably higher, but Oscar also got to play in a less competitive league for the majority of his career.

Stockton's contemporaries were Magic, Payton, Kidd, Nash and Isaiah. He outplayed all but one of those guys year in and year out. Gary Payton called him the toughest player in the NBA to guard.

Stockton is a lot closer to Emmitt Smith than Frank Gore. Frank Gore is a better comp for Andre Miller. #25 is exactly where he should be.

 

[Gally]

An interesting a series of thought experiments:

If Bird rejects the Celtics contract just before the 1979 NBA draft, we would be eligible to be drafted again. Lakers had the #1 pick. Would they have taken Magic or Bird if both were available?

Knowing what each player was capable of and how they could be utilized throughout their career, who would you take if both Magin and Bird are available? Maybe assume Magic doesn't get HIV and Bird doesn't have as many injury problems.

I think Jerry Buss still takes Magic. He wanted Showtime and a spectacle for his team. Bird wasn't doing that.

I think I agree. But who would you choose?

I take Magic 100 times out of 100. He is my all time favorite NBA player.

 

[the moops]

Stockton's contemporaries were Magic, Payton, Kidd and Isaiah. He outplayed all but one of those guys year in and year out.

Yes, but the NBA existed well before and well after those years. I will give you that Stockton was probably second behind Magic during those years. But he is likely #5 or #6 PG of all time, and with PG probably being the least important position for a championship team, that would place in more in the 35-45 range than 25

 

[Jayrod]

Stockton's contemporaries were Magic, Payton, Kidd and Isaiah. He outplayed all but one of those guys year in and year out.

Yes, but the NBA existed well before and well after those years. I will give you that Stockton was probably second behind Magic during those years. But he is likely #5 or #6 PG of all time, and with PG probably being the least important position for a championship team, that would place in more in the 35-45 range than 25

Name the other 4-5 guys (besides Magic) and I can make a very compelling argument for Stockton over all of them.

I find this hilarious, as I'm not even a Stockton fan, but the disrespect in here is over the top.

 

[Jayrod]

In my research I did find this gem of an article, who has Stockton ranked both #8 & #1.

 

[Gally]

In my research I did find this gem of an article, who has Stockton ranked both #8 & #1.

Doesn't even seem like schtick. Just a complete miss in proofreading?

 

[Jayrod]

In my research I did find this gem of an article, who has Stockton ranked both #8 & #1.

Doesn't even seem like schtick. Just a complete miss in proofreading?

The list is pretty ridiculous with Stockton and Cousy both above Magic.

 

[the moops]

Stockton's contemporaries were Magic, Payton, Kidd and Isaiah. He outplayed all but one of those guys year in and year out.

Yes, but the NBA existed well before and well after those years. I will give you that Stockton was probably second behind Magic during those years. But he is likely #5 or #6 PG of all time, and with PG probably being the least important position for a championship team, that would place in more in the 35-45 range than 25

Name the other 4-5 guys (besides Magic) and I can make a very compelling argument for Stockton over all of them.

I find this hilarious, as I'm not even a Stockton fan, but the disrespect in here is over the top.

I already did.

Magic, Oscar, Steph, CP3

 

[Spartans Rule]

In my research I did find this gem of an article, who has Stockton ranked both #8 & #1.

The writing style and the double Stockton ranking leads me to believe that was written by a chatbot.

 

[TripItUp]

I vote for Russel and Kobe over Magic here, but I understand the Magic votes...the argument is solid.