Who is the more dominant NFL WR right now? (1 Viewer)

[Ocram]

I'm not talking long term and I know there are other very good WRs in the league. But right now, these 2 have been unstoppable in different ways.

Wes Welker is averaging over 150 receiving yards/game and already has 40 receptions after just 4 weeks. He's on pace to shatter the reception and receiving yards record. He has 5 TDs to go along with that.

Calvin Johnson has just been a monster in the endzone, catching 2 TDs/game over the first 4 weeks. He's also on pace to shatter the single season TD record. He has 24 catches for 321 yards, which is just over half of Welker's 40 catches for 616 yards, but does have 3 more TDs.

Neither of these guys seems coverable at this time for different reasons. Who is the more dominant guy? Who would you rather not have to face on a given week?

ETA--This is NOT asking who is more talented. This is NOT asking what they would do on another team. This is simply asking about right now, on their teams with what they are doing. Assuming they keep doing what they are doing, which do you consider more dominant?

 

[rainram]

Calvin and it ain't even close.

Johnson beats double teams and triple-teams...all by himself. Uncoverable. He straight up wins games for his team...period. #1 in the NFL right now.

Welker, while great in his own right, benefits mightily from the team he's on, and scheme he plays in.

Put Johnson on any other team and he will produce. Put Welker on any other team and I wonder how good he'd be...he'd certainly still be good, but not anywhere close to Johnson.

Those poll should be about 95% Calvin to 5% Welker

 

[Ocram]

Calvin and it ain't even close.Johnson beats double teams and triple-teams...all by himself. Uncoverable. He straight up wins games for his team...period. #1 in the NFL right now.Welker, while great in his own right, benefits mightily from the team he's on, and scheme he plays in.Put Johnson on any other team and he will produce. Put Welker on any other team and I wonder how good he'd be...he'd certainly still be good, but not anywhere close to Johnson.Those poll should be about 95% Calvin to 5% Welker

You're reading into this more than you should be. I didn't ask who is the most talented. I'm talking right now, on their respective teams, with what they are doing, who is more dominant. Hypothesizing what they would do on different teams has no bearing on the poll question. Yes, Welker is benefiting from the scheme, but it is what it is. The guy has been uncoverable. Even when you KNOW he's going to get the ball, he's getting open and slipping away for first downs and TDs and massive amounts of yards. I know it's only 4 games, but he's on pace for 160 catches and almost 2500 receiving yards. Oh, and 20 TDs. That's ridiculous. Which would end up being the better season to you?96/1280/32or160/2464/20I take that 2nd one all day. Those #'s are ridiculous.

 

[Captain Hook]

Dominant? Has to be Calvin

But Welker scores as much if not more (certainly more in PPR leagues) so I think the question was poor - could have been Who is better in FF? Who will score more points? (heavily dependent on scoring system)

But dominant only points one direction IMO

 

[Ghost Rider]

Calvin. He would be a GREAT WR in any scheme. Welker, while being very good, definitely benefits greatly by the offense he play in, and more importantly, the QB he plays with.

Ocram, yes, those numbers would be ridiculous, but the odds of Welker keeping that receiving yard pace up are slim to none? Granted, Calvin won't keep scoring two TDs a week (although he just might), but the odds of him ending with that stat line are still higher than Welker ending with his projected one. Or do you really think that Welker is gonna completely shatter the all-time single season receiving yardage record? In other words, Welker's receiving yards will come back down to earth a lot quicker than Calvin's TD totals.

 

[habsfan]

Calvin and it ain't even close.Johnson beats double teams and triple-teams...all by himself. Uncoverable. He straight up wins games for his team...period. #1 in the NFL right now.Welker, while great in his own right, benefits mightily from the team he's on, and scheme he plays in.Put Johnson on any other team and he will produce. Put Welker on any other team and I wonder how good he'd be...he'd certainly still be good, but not anywhere close to Johnson.Those poll should be about 95% Calvin to 5% Welker

You're reading into this more than you should be. I didn't ask who is the most talented. I'm talking right now, on their respective teams, with what they are doing, who is more dominant. Hypothesizing what they would do on different teams has no bearing on the poll question. Yes, Welker is benefiting from the scheme, but it is what it is. The guy has been uncoverable. Even when you KNOW he's going to get the ball, he's getting open and slipping away for first downs and TDs and massive amounts of yards. I know it's only 4 games, but he's on pace for 160 catches and almost 2500 receiving yards. Oh, and 20 TDs. That's ridiculous. Which would end up being the better season to you?96/1280/32or160/2464/20I take that 2nd one all day. Those #'s are ridiculous.

I believe "talent" is relevant because I consider Calvin more "uncoverable" than Welker. I think it's easier to contain what he does and he isn't traditionally this "red zone threat". Looking at the two stat lines above, one is far more likely than the other and I think it's pretty obvious which one it is...

 

[sports_fan]

I went with Welker. Megatron is a freak, hands-down he's the more talented WR. But Welker is utterly unstoppable right now. You can't hardly double team him given the short, quick routes that he runs. Doing so might even work to his advantage as the DBs would be getting in each others way. He seems to be getting open on every play whereas Megatron makes plays despite being blanketed. Throw into tight coverage enough and you're going to get burned, with Welker that's less of a concern given how open he's getting.

 

[Ocram]

Dominant? Has to be CalvinBut Welker scores as much if not more (certainly more in PPR leagues) so I think the question was poor - could have been Who is better in FF? Who will score more points? (heavily dependent on scoring system)But dominant only points one direction IMO

The question isn't poor. I'm not talking about FF in this case. The question is pretty basic. Would you rather face a WR that is scoring twice/game or would you rather face a WR that is catching 10 balls for a 150 yds AND scoring every game? It's not as if teams don't know who Welker is. They are trying to cover him as well and can't. Is Calvin more dominant because he's taller and can beat triple teams? Who cares if Welker is short if he is CONSTANTLY getting open. Keep in mind that he's also allowing his teammate Gronkowski to score a boatload of TDs as well. I'm obviously in the minority, but, while uncoverable at times, I'd rather face Calvin than Welker at this time. Welker is moving the chains all game long and changing entire games.

 

[Cawbird]

This will be great to bump after next week.

Welker goes to Revis Island

Calvin gets Chicago and a chance at redemption again for that TD being taken away last year by the officials.

Wish I had both!!!!!!!

 

[Ocram]

Calvin. He would be a GREAT WR in any scheme. Welker, while being very good, definitely benefits greatly by the offense he play in, and more importantly, the QB he plays with.

Ocram, yes, those numbers would be ridiculous, but the odds of Welker keeping that receiving yard pace up are slim to none? Granted, Calvin won't keep scoring two TDs a week (although he just might), but the odds of him ending with that stat line are still higher than Welker ending with his projected one. Or do you really think that Welker is gonna completely shatter the all-time single season receiving yardage record? In other words, Welker's receiving yards will come back down to earth a lot quicker than Calvin's TD totals.

Once again, the bolded above is irrelevant. We're talking about their current schemes here. And I'm not asking who is more likely to continue their pace. I'm asking which WR is more dominant right now with what they are doing? Phrased another way, would you rather face Receiver X knowing he will catch 2 TDs every game but only have about 5-6 catches for 80 yards or would you rather face Receiver Y knowing he's going to catch 10 balls for 150 yds and score 1 TD (while setting up others)?

 

[jurb26]

This will be great to bump after next week.Welker goes to Revis IslandCalvin gets Chicago and a chance at redemption again for that TD being taken away last year by the officials.Wish I had both!!!!!!!

I don't think the Jets will be able to consistently put Revis on Welker given the NE scheme and how much they move him around. That is the beauty of it and why he is having such a magnificent season so far.

 

[Ocram]

I went with Welker. Megatron is a freak, hands-down he's the more talented WR. But Welker is utterly unstoppable right now. You can't hardly double team him given the short, quick routes that he runs. Doing so might even work to his advantage as the DBs would be getting in each others way. He seems to be getting open on every play whereas Megatron makes plays despite being blanketed. Throw into tight coverage enough and you're going to get burned, with Welker that's less of a concern given how open he's getting.

 

[jurb26]

Calvin. He would be a GREAT WR in any scheme. Welker, while being very good, definitely benefits greatly by the offense he play in, and more importantly, the QB he plays with.

Ocram, yes, those numbers would be ridiculous, but the odds of Welker keeping that receiving yard pace up are slim to none? Granted, Calvin won't keep scoring two TDs a week (although he just might), but the odds of him ending with that stat line are still higher than Welker ending with his projected one. Or do you really think that Welker is gonna completely shatter the all-time single season receiving yardage record? In other words, Welker's receiving yards will come back down to earth a lot quicker than Calvin's TD totals.

Once again, the bolded above is irrelevant. We're talking about their current schemes here. And I'm not asking who is more likely to continue their pace. I'm asking which WR is more dominant right now with what they are doing? Phrased another way, would you rather face Receiver X knowing he will catch 2 TDs every game but only have about 5-6 catches for 80 yards or would you rather face Receiver Y knowing he's going to catch 10 balls for 150 yds and score 1 TD (while setting up others)?

I don't think Welker sets up others as much as Calvin does. If I'm facing them in real football, I want the guy who will score less points... 6 vs. 12 against my team.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts.

Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

 

[Ocram]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts. Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

A+ in reading comprehension.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Phrased another way, would you rather face Receiver X knowing he will catch 2 TDs every game but only have about 5-6 catches for 80 yards or would you rather face Receiver Y knowing he's going to catch 10 balls for 150 yds and score 1 TD (while setting up others)?

Receiver X, especially when that WR is Calvin Johnson, whose mere presence opens the rest of the field up for the rest of the offense. He could put up pedestrian stats in a game and still greatly impact it simply by his presence demanding two or three guys at at time, making it a lot easier for other players to get open and score.

 

[tim_whatley]

Brady missed welker on what would have been a ~50 yard TD in I believe the 2nd quarter. His day could have been REALLY sick.

 

[habsfan]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts. Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

A+ in reading comprehension.

People disagree with you, you don't need to be ignorant about it. You think you've created a question and placed the kind of parameters and qualifiers around it that can only result in the response you're looking for. Apparently others disagree...

 

[The Doctor]

welker looked open all day yesterday

and the weeks before

 

[Ocram]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts. Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

A+ in reading comprehension.

People disagree with you, you don't need to be ignorant about it. You think you've created a question and placed the kind of parameters and qualifiers around it that can only result in the response you're looking for. Apparently others disagree...

Not at all. I think it's extremely close. When the reason for disagteeing is how a player would do on another team, it shows someone not reading closely.

 

[Shane Falco]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts.

Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

A+ in reading comprehension.

People disagree with you, you don't need to be ignorant about it. You think you've created a question and placed the kind of parameters and qualifiers around it that can only result in the response you're looking for. Apparently others disagree...

the question and the OP's subsequent responses are that he wants people to agree with his premise that Welker is the dominate one. yes Welker has been awesome so far but whether is real or FF or whatever premise he wants to use, I'll take Calvin.

Stupid fishing trip

 

[Ocram]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts.

Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

A+ in reading comprehension.

People disagree with you, you don't need to be ignorant about it. You think you've created a question and placed the kind of parameters and qualifiers around it that can only result in the response you're looking for. Apparently others disagree...

the question and the OP's subsequent responses are that he wants people to agree with his premise that Welker is the dominate one. yes Welker has been awesome so far but whether is real or FF or whatever premise he wants to use, I'll take Calvin.

Stupid fishing trip

Wrong. I voted Calvin.I wouldn't disagree with either Calvin or Welker. I do disagree that it's not close.

 

[geoff8695]

Calvin. He would be a GREAT WR in any scheme. Welker, while being very good, definitely benefits greatly by the offense he play in, and more importantly, the QB he plays with.

Ocram, yes, those numbers would be ridiculous, but the odds of Welker keeping that receiving yard pace up are slim to none? Granted, Calvin won't keep scoring two TDs a week (although he just might), but the odds of him ending with that stat line are still higher than Welker ending with his projected one. Or do you really think that Welker is gonna completely shatter the all-time single season receiving yardage record? In other words, Welker's receiving yards will come back down to earth a lot quicker than Calvin's TD totals.

Once again, the bolded above is irrelevant. We're talking about their current schemes here. And I'm not asking who is more likely to continue their pace. I'm asking which WR is more dominant right now with what they are doing? Phrased another way, would you rather face Receiver X knowing he will catch 2 TDs every game but only have about 5-6 catches for 80 yards or would you rather face Receiver Y knowing he's going to catch 10 balls for 150 yds and score 1 TD (while setting up others)?

Welker has helped his team and set up others to the tune of a 3-1 start for NE (a perennial AFC powerhouse).Megatron has helped his team and set up others to the tune of a 4-0 start for Detroit (a perennial NFC cellar dwellar).

Yeah I'm going with Calvin on this one...

 

[SacramentoBob]

Welker is so overrated it's ridiculous. He runs the same 2-3 fruity routes over and over and teams just let him have it because they are worried about real threats like Ocho and the TEs.

 

[RobertBobson]

I think this thread is extremely interesting because it illustrates a point I've been kicking around all year in my head... Wes Welker is the most underrated WR in fantasy football. Every year that he's healthy (and brady's healthy) the guy puts up absolutely elite PPR fantasy numbers. But no one considers him an elite talent, for what ever reason ( he's short, he's small, he's white, he doesn't make the physically impressive circus catches that guys like Calvin make). People suspect that his production is a product of his system, and not his talent. First off, I think that denigrates Welker's talent.. if it was so easy to be Wes Welker, the league would be full of short quick white guys. Every year I hear about some new player on a team that is undersized and quick ( and often white) who is a "wes welker type", or better still " a more physically talented Welker type" and every year they put up a fraction of the numbers wes does. Wes is extremely talented, it's just an atypical talent that needs coaches that know what to do with that talent, and a qb to utilize it. But, assuming that his production is completely system based, assuming that it's entirely a product of Belicheck and Brady, so what? If the result is that production is greater than CJ, AJ, Fitz or Jennings, then why do those guys go so much higher than welker in drafts, year after year. I can understand, I suppose, in a dynasty league being afraid that the patriots will cut bait with welker a year too early rather than a year too late or something, and he will end up on another team and not be productive. But in a redraft, assuming he's healthy, how is this guy not a first round pick in a ppr league next year? All the arguments you make about how physically impressive calvin is, how he would excel in any system, are moot. What matters is production, who cares how it's achieved? Also, Welker's type of production is the most predictable and reliable type of production. WR's that rely on big plays and TD's for their scoring ( like calvin, who's never had more than 78 catches in a seasons), their production can be quite variant.. if they don't score any touch downs, they can have some low scoring weeks (as well as some giant weeks when they score multiple touchdowns). But a guy like welker, who gets 8+ catches every game, always has a high minimum scoring. He may not achieve the scoring heights some of the "stud" wrs can get in a week ( though week 3 this year puts even that into question) but he assures you SOME production, every week, and that kind of predictability is rare and valuable.

In a redraft PPR league, I would snap trade calvin for welker this season. I'd even have to consider it in a standard scoring league ( as welker has twice calvin's yardage this season).

 

[SacramentoBob]

Where does Welker rank among Dallas WRs? That's a better question.

 

[Monsieur Meursault]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts.

Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

A+ in reading comprehension.

People disagree with you, you don't need to be ignorant about it. You think you've created a question and placed the kind of parameters and qualifiers around it that can only result in the response you're looking for. Apparently others disagree...

the question and the OP's subsequent responses are that he wants people to agree with his premise that Welker is the dominate one. yes Welker has been awesome so far but whether is real or FF or whatever premise he wants to use, I'll take Calvin.

Stupid fishing trip

Maybe you just don't understand. He wants to know who you think is the more dominant WR right now. But don't take anything into consideration when making your decision.

 

[ponchsox]

It's a good question. They are two different receivers but each dominate their respective position on the field. Calvin is a physical freak and can out jump, out muscle, and make the insane catch that nobody else can in the endzone. Welker has an uncanny ability to catch the ball in the tightest space and coverage, take a hit, and always find the first down marker. Having said that, I give the slight edge to Megatron right now.

 

[Grahamburn]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts. Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

A+ in reading comprehension.

Why don't you just tell us how we should respond?

 

[Reepicheep]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts.

Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

A+ in reading comprehension.

People disagree with you, you don't need to be ignorant about it. You think you've created a question and placed the kind of parameters and qualifiers around it that can only result in the response you're looking for. Apparently others disagree...

the question and the OP's subsequent responses are that he wants people to agree with his premise that Welker is the dominate one. yes Welker has been awesome so far but whether is real or FF or whatever premise he wants to use, I'll take Calvin.

Stupid fishing trip

Maybe you just don't understand. He wants to know who you think is the more dominant WR right now. But don't take anything into consideration when making your decision.

 

[bulger2holt]

I draft both these guys every year (PPR) ( except welker last year ) and love them. Not sure who I would choose between them. Also, I don't think these is another player in the league I would trade either for one for one. Maybe Ray Rice.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

Welker isn't routinely double-covered, with the DB's knowing where the ball is going, getting to the spot, and STILL not being able to stop it. Megatron is the shiz.

 

[ponchsox]

Welker is so overrated it's ridiculous. He runs the same 2-3 fruity routes over and over and teams just let him have it because they are worried about real threats like Ocho and the TEs.

Yeah, opposing defensive coordinators are really shaking in their boots every time Ochocinco steps on the field.

 

[GDogg]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts.

Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

A+ in reading comprehension.

People disagree with you, you don't need to be ignorant about it. You think you've created a question and placed the kind of parameters and qualifiers around it that can only result in the response you're looking for. Apparently others disagree...

the question and the OP's subsequent responses are that he wants people to agree with his premise that Welker is the dominate one. yes Welker has been awesome so far but whether is real or FF or whatever premise he wants to use, I'll take Calvin.

Stupid fishing trip

Maybe you just don't understand. He wants to know who you think is the more dominant WR right now. But don't take anything into consideration when making your decision.

Pretty much. I think the problem Ocram is having is that he asked which player is the more dominant player. Then, he's trying to limit the definition of "dominant" to a definition that many do not agree with (which is basically, "dominant means which player has scored the most points this season").Wes Welker is scoring more points. That's conceded. And, if you don't want us to argue about what he'd do on another team, then I won't. But, I will argue that other WRs put in the same position as Welker could do something similar. The scheme is that good. He's a great route runner, but there are a lot of excellent route runners in the league.

On the flip side, put Calvin Johnson on the bench and have someone else put in his position and I don't think they come close to the numbers he's putting up.

Thus, Calvin Johnson is better at doing what it is his team requires of him than Wes Welker is at doing what his team requires.

Calvin Johnson is more dominant.

 

[Phlash]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts.

Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

A+ in reading comprehension.

People disagree with you, you don't need to be ignorant about it. You think you've created a question and placed the kind of parameters and qualifiers around it that can only result in the response you're looking for. Apparently others disagree...

the question and the OP's subsequent responses are that he wants people to agree with his premise that Welker is the dominate one. yes Welker has been awesome so far but whether is real or FF or whatever premise he wants to use, I'll take Calvin.

Stupid fishing trip

Maybe you just don't understand. He wants to know who you think is the more dominant WR right now. But don't take anything into consideration when making your decision.

Pretty much. I think the problem Ocram is having is that he asked which player is the more dominant player. Then, he's trying to limit the definition of "dominant" to a definition that many do not agree with (which is basically, "dominant means which player has scored the most points this season").Wes Welker is scoring more points. That's conceded. And, if you don't want us to argue about what he'd do on another team, then I won't. But, I will argue that other WRs put in the same position as Welker could do something similar. The scheme is that good. He's a great route runner, but there are a lot of excellent route runners in the league.

On the flip side, put Calvin Johnson on the bench and have someone else put in his position and I don't think they come close to the numbers he's putting up.

Thus, Calvin Johnson is better at doing what it is his team requires of him than Wes Welker is at doing what his team requires.

Calvin Johnson is more dominant.

That's frankly not true. He's on pace to utterly annihilate records. Why haven't those records been broken before, hmm?Calvin Johnson is an enormous threat in the passing game. Welker is not only a huge threat in the passing game, he also happens to be the Patriots entire running game oftentimes. No other WR before him on the Patriots has played like he has - Randy Moss played an entirely different game and massed TDs - Welker is massing yardage & receptions like we have never seen before.

 

[smapdi]

Welker is straight up uncoverable.

Right now, I'd pick him. Megatron is also flat out amazing but just look at the numbers Welker is putting up

Luckily, I don't have to choose... I have both

 

[SacramentoBob]

Welker is straight up uncoverable.

Odd. Seems like the Jets were able to shut him and the Pats down completely last year on more than one occasion. Green Bay too.

 

[Khy]

I have Welker and my league is almost entirely TD based. Welker is 3 points below Calvin in points in my league.

I think I would rather have Welker. I feel eventually Calvin will slow down. Welker and the Pats however are sporting a defense that cannot so anything right. They will be passing all season and if both stay healthy there is a legitimate shot that Welker and Brady both break the single season yardage records.

 

[thatguy]

I went with Welker. Megatron is a freak, hands-down he's the more talented WR. But Welker is utterly unstoppable right now. You can't hardly double team him given the short, quick routes that he runs. Doing so might even work to his advantage as the DBs would be getting in each others way. He seems to be getting open on every play whereas Megatron makes plays despite being blanketed. Throw into tight coverage enough and you're going to get burned, with Welker that's less of a concern given how open he's getting.

I agree.

 

[GDogg]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts.

Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

A+ in reading comprehension.

People disagree with you, you don't need to be ignorant about it. You think you've created a question and placed the kind of parameters and qualifiers around it that can only result in the response you're looking for. Apparently others disagree...

the question and the OP's subsequent responses are that he wants people to agree with his premise that Welker is the dominate one. yes Welker has been awesome so far but whether is real or FF or whatever premise he wants to use, I'll take Calvin.

Stupid fishing trip

Maybe you just don't understand. He wants to know who you think is the more dominant WR right now. But don't take anything into consideration when making your decision.

Pretty much. I think the problem Ocram is having is that he asked which player is the more dominant player. Then, he's trying to limit the definition of "dominant" to a definition that many do not agree with (which is basically, "dominant means which player has scored the most points this season").Wes Welker is scoring more points. That's conceded. And, if you don't want us to argue about what he'd do on another team, then I won't. But, I will argue that other WRs put in the same position as Welker could do something similar. The scheme is that good. He's a great route runner, but there are a lot of excellent route runners in the league.

On the flip side, put Calvin Johnson on the bench and have someone else put in his position and I don't think they come close to the numbers he's putting up.

Thus, Calvin Johnson is better at doing what it is his team requires of him than Wes Welker is at doing what his team requires.

Calvin Johnson is more dominant.

That's frankly not true. He's on pace to utterly annihilate records. Why haven't those records been broken before, hmm?Calvin Johnson is an enormous threat in the passing game. Welker is not only a huge threat in the passing game, he also happens to be the Patriots entire running game oftentimes. No other WR before him on the Patriots has played like he has - Randy Moss played an entirely different game and massed TDs - Welker is massing yardage & receptions like we have never seen before.

Those records still haven't been broken. So, why isn't it true? Calvin Johnson is also on pace to annihilate a receiving record (TD record). Why hasn't that record been broken before, hmm? "Frankly," whether Welker breaks or doesn't break the receptions/yards records doesn't change my argument. My argument is that the scheme/position plays a huge part in his statistics. His individual talent/dominance also plays a part. Calvin's individual dominance plays a larger part in his statistics.

I didn't say Welker wasn't great. I didn't even say that somebody else could do what he's doing. I said another WR could do something similar. Not as good, but very good. There aren't other WRs in the league that can do what Calvin Johnson is doing. He's got multiple DBs draped all over him and he's still coming down with the ball.

 

[thatguy]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts. Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

Welker is on pace to put up Moss 2007 numbers or better (on pace for 3 less TD's but far more receptions/yardage). And again, the poster is asking about "right now". I think that should be factored in, no?

 

[thatguy]

Calvin is more dominant. His size, his speed, his jumping ability, his athleticism. Welker doesn't have those gifts.

Welker works in the NE scheme. Calvin in NE would put up Moss 2007 numbers, or better.

A+ in reading comprehension.

People disagree with you, you don't need to be ignorant about it. You think you've created a question and placed the kind of parameters and qualifiers around it that can only result in the response you're looking for. Apparently others disagree...

the question and the OP's subsequent responses are that he wants people to agree with his premise that Welker is the dominate one. yes Welker has been awesome so far but whether is real or FF or whatever premise he wants to use, I'll take Calvin.

Stupid fishing trip

Maybe you just don't understand. He wants to know who you think is the more dominant WR right now. But don't take anything into consideration when making your decision.

Pretty much. I think the problem Ocram is having is that he asked which player is the more dominant player. Then, he's trying to limit the definition of "dominant" to a definition that many do not agree with (which is basically, "dominant means which player has scored the most points this season").Wes Welker is scoring more points. That's conceded. And, if you don't want us to argue about what he'd do on another team, then I won't. But, I will argue that other WRs put in the same position as Welker could do something similar. The scheme is that good. He's a great route runner, but there are a lot of excellent route runners in the league.

On the flip side, put Calvin Johnson on the bench and have someone else put in his position and I don't think they come close to the numbers he's putting up.

Thus, Calvin Johnson is better at doing what it is his team requires of him than Wes Welker is at doing what his team requires.

Calvin Johnson is more dominant.

That's frankly not true. He's on pace to utterly annihilate records. Why haven't those records been broken before, hmm?Calvin Johnson is an enormous threat in the passing game. Welker is not only a huge threat in the passing game, he also happens to be the Patriots entire running game oftentimes. No other WR before him on the Patriots has played like he has - Randy Moss played an entirely different game and massed TDs - Welker is massing yardage & receptions like we have never seen before.

 

[jonramz]

dominant -- commanding, controlling, or prevailing over all others

I think Calvin is the more dominant WR but that Welker is in the more dominant offense

 

[thatguy]

I was actually thinking about this last night, and I know exactly what the OP is asking, and I can understand his frustration to some of the responses. It's a hard question to phrase. Each player is excelling in a certain area right now--given that, which player would be more difficult to take out of the game right now? Which player would it more difficult to game plan around? Using the word "dominant", even when you frame it in a specific way, is always going to lead people toward Calvin because it brings with it certain connotations such as "big", "fast", "strong", "beastly". These are not words that we use to describe Welker, they are words we use to describe Calvin.

 

[Shutout]

Welker. Every time I have to play him I cringe.

Facing Calvin is like stepping out into the street and getting flattened by a bus. It kills ya but it is over quick.

Facing Welker is like waking up and you are smack dab in the middle of the bad end of a SAW movie. You get tortured until you crack...and it stil kills you.

Calvin is beastly but the OP is talking FF and you CAN (and likely will) play calvin sometimes and he ends up in one of those games where he doesn't end up with an obscene statline (the game just goes a certain way). Megatron gets his but its not all the time.

Welker, on the other hand, is one of these guys where, when you face him, you just don't watch the game at all and then peek at the bottom-line damage or (if you are a glutton for punishment) you sit there and watch every freaking play because he can hurt you on any given play the Pats run. And don't think about going to the bathroom on change of possession because they can sneak him in there on punt returns if needed too.

I can live with facing Calvin and accept it but I HATE facing Welker because it just seems like he shouldn't be able to do what he does. The guy is ALWAYS open and its ALWAYS 12 yards+ at a time and it seems like Brady gets up on Sunday morning, logs on to the PC and says "Oh well! Shutout is playing against Welker today. I need to make a point to torture him."

 

[Ghost Rider]

Welker. Every time I have to play him I cringe.Facing Calvin is like stepping out into the street and getting flattened by a bus. It kills ya but it is over quick.Facing Welker is like waking up and you are smack dab in the middle of the bad end of a SAW movie. You get tortured until you crack...and it stil kills you. Calvin is beastly but the OP is talking FF and you CAN (and likely will) play calvin sometimes and he ends up in one of those games where he doesn't end up with an obscene statline (the game just goes a certain way). Megatron gets his but its not all the time.Welker, on the other hand, is one of these guys where, when you face him, you just don't watch the game at all and then peek at the bottom-line damage or (if you are a glutton for punishment) you sit there and watch every freaking play because he can hurt you on any given play the Pats run. And don't think about going to the bathroom on change of possession because they can sneak him in there on punt returns if needed too. I can live with facing Calvin and accept it but I HATE facing Welker because it just seems like he shouldn't be able to do what he does. The guy is ALWAYS open and its ALWAYS 12 yards+ at a time and it seems like Brady gets up on Sunday morning, logs on to the PC and says "Oh well! Shutout is playing against Welker today. I need to make a point to torture him."

I get what you are saying, but how can you say that Megatron does not get his all of the time and then ignore the fact that Welker doesn't either. Both have been getting theirs in every game so far this year, but that is a small sample size (four games). Welker's insane start to this season I think has made people think that he goes off for 10 catches in every game, but it's not the way it is. Remember that he had these games last year:6-38-14-45-07-53-04-25-03-24-04-36-03-42-03-19-0With a lot of tough pass defenses on NE's schedule coming up starting with the Jets next week, expect Welker's numbers to start going way down. It's inevitable.

 

[GDogg]

Welker. Every time I have to play him I cringe.

Facing Calvin is like stepping out into the street and getting flattened by a bus. It kills ya but it is over quick.

Facing Welker is like waking up and you are smack dab in the middle of the bad end of a SAW movie. You get tortured until you crack...and it stil kills you.

Calvin is beastly but the OP is talking FF and you CAN (and likely will) play calvin sometimes and he ends up in one of those games where he doesn't end up with an obscene statline (the game just goes a certain way). Megatron gets his but its not all the time.

Welker, on the other hand, is one of these guys where, when you face him, you just don't watch the game at all and then peek at the bottom-line damage or (if you are a glutton for punishment) you sit there and watch every freaking play because he can hurt you on any given play the Pats run. And don't think about going to the bathroom on change of possession because they can sneak him in there on punt returns if needed too.

I can live with facing Calvin and accept it but I HATE facing Welker because it just seems like he shouldn't be able to do what he does. The guy is ALWAYS open and its ALWAYS 12 yards+ at a time and it seems like Brady gets up on Sunday morning, logs on to the PC and says "Oh well! Shutout is playing against Welker today. I need to make a point to torture him."

I love both of these guys. But, I do want to try to at least keep this somewhat objective. So, Calvin ends up with games where he doesn't put up an obscene statline, but Welker doesn't?How about Week 2 this season?

Or, weeks 3 and 5-9 of last season?

Over the first four games of this season and all of last season, Calvin has had 14 games of at least 8 fantasy points. Welker has had 12.

Over that same time period, Calvin Johnson has finished ranked as one of WR1-36 (startable WR in 3 WR/no flex leagues) in 15 weeks. Welker has done that in 11 weeks.

Like I said, they are both great, but including this season and last season, Calvin has put up fewer duds than Welker.

ETA: The above ranks were in standard scoring leagues.

 

[Khy]

GDogg that statement is ridiculous. Moss set that record 4 seasons ago. Rice set the yardage record in 1995 and nobody has even come close. Every year there are a few WR who break that 15+ TD area. It's rare though that more than 1 guy puts up 1500+ yds. Let alone 1900yds. Breaking the yardage record is much bigger a deal IMO than the TD record. A longer standing record is almost always the hardest to break.

 

[Ghost Rider]

GDogg that statement is ridiculous. Moss set that record 4 seasons ago. Rice set the yardage record in 1995 and nobody has even come close. Every year there are a few WR who break that 15+ TD area. It's rare though that more than 1 guy puts up 1500+ yds. Let alone 1900yds. Breaking the yardage record is much bigger a deal IMO than the TD record. A longer standing record is almost always the hardest to break.

That's true, but do you think Welker will break the yardage record of 1,848? To do it, he will still need to average over 100 receiving yards per game, and his targets won't stay as high as they have been the last two games. Along with the difficult pass defenses coming up, Hernandez coming back will take away a bunch of targets (compare Welker's targets in weeks 1 and 2 vs. weeks 3 and 4), and I doubt Welker is gonna bust a fluke 99-yard TD catch again to jack up his overall numbers. And there is always the strong possibility that Ochocinco becomes a bigger part of the offense as the season goes on. Basically, Welker's piece of the pie has been enormous over the last two weeks, but it wont stay that way. He'll still be studly for the rest of the year, health permitting, but he simply isn't gonna keep blowing up like this every week.

 

[GDogg]

GDogg that statement is ridiculous. Moss set that record 4 seasons ago. Rice set the yardage record in 1995 and nobody has even come close. Every year there are a few WR who break that 15+ TD area. It's rare though that more than 1 guy puts up 1500+ yds. Let alone 1900yds. Breaking the yardage record is much bigger a deal IMO than the TD record. A longer standing record is almost always the hardest to break.

What statement? Nobody has broken any single season receiving record this season.And, Rice set the TD record of 22 in 1987. Until 2007, it was a longer standing record. Other than Moss, nobody's beaten it. In fact, other than Moss, the closest anyone has come to that record was 18...4 TDs away from Rice. Nobody, including Rice, has put up 1900 receiving yards. In 1995, the same year Rice set the yardage record, Isaac Bruce put up the second best receiving yardage number, finishing a mere 67 yards behind Rice. Marvin Harrison in 2002 finished 126 yards behind Rice.26 players in NFL history have had 1500 yards receiving. Fourteen have had 16 receiving TDs. 24 have had 15 receiving TDs.They both look like difficult records to break and I don't see anything to suggest the yardage record is more difficult to break than the TD record. If anything, the opposite looks true.