NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
Over Bruce Matthews?I would think the best center of all time would easily get in at some point soon.
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Who Will Be In the Next 10 HOF Classes? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tau837
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Tau837
Footballguy
It's true he did accomplish a lot. You didn't even mention the fact that Reeves won two NFL COY awards in the NFC in the 1990s.However, his regular season winning percentage was only .535 in the regular season and .550 in the postseason. Since you brought up Levy, Levy's winning percentage was .561 in the regular season and .579 in the postseason.Unfortunately for Reeves, he lost all those Super Bowls. One win might have put him over the top.Marv Levy?Borat said:Point being, Reeves was a heck of a coach. Took two franchises to the SB. Coached in 4 SB's...
And Schotty won't be making it either.
Tau837
Footballguy
Matthews only played center for 5-6 years of his 19 year career.ETA: Matthews was 1st team All Pro 7 times - 6 times as a guard, once as a center.Over Bruce Matthews?I would think the best center of all time would easily get in at some point soon.
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TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
So if you extrapolate Levy's regular season winning percentage over 357 games (the amount Reeves coached), Levy would have 10 more regular season wins. And Reeves post-season record was 11-9 versus Levy at 11-8.From my vantage point, those look like 2 very ho-hum reasons to kibosh Reeves chances. While Reeves lost all those SB's, so did Levy and if memory serves, at least Reeves was the underdog for all of his. And as mentioned above, taking two teams to the SB is something Levy cannot boast.It's true he did accomplish a lot. You didn't even mention the fact that Reeves won two NFL COY awards in the NFC in the 1990s.However, his regular season winning percentage was only .535 in the regular season and .550 in the postseason. Since you brought up Levy, Levy's winning percentage was .561 in the regular season and .579 in the postseason.Unfortunately for Reeves, he lost all those Super Bowls. One win might have put him over the top.Marv Levy?Borat said:Reeves is 8th in all-time coaching victories (regular season). Names above him are ones like Shula, Landy, Halas, Lambeau, Brown, Noll. Schotty is also on that list
Point being, Reeves was a heck of a coach. Took two franchises to the SB. Coached in 4 SB's...
And Schotty won't be making it either.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
FYI, Reeves' Broncos were slight favorites in the Super Bowl that they lost to Washington by a score of 42-10.
Bermuda_Chub
Footballguy
Seems strange to consider Tom Coughlin, b/c his relationship with the press has always been uneasy at best, but if the Giants pull off another Super Bowl win over the next few years, it would be difficult to justify keeping him out. Especially given how quickly he led the Jags from expansion into an every-year playoff team.
Ernie Accorsi also has a shot as an ambassador of the game.
Great list and always an interesting topic. Well done.
Ernie Accorsi also has a shot as an ambassador of the game.
Great list and always an interesting topic. Well done.
For me, Carter is the 3rd. Brown's PR/KR work was pretty excellent too and that's almost like a bonus reason to consider him as the rec yards are plenty. I'm not sure why Carter is 3rd to me. (which is still great, 3rd in this list of 3)
Ernie's going to be too short IMO.Coughlin needs more rings too.
Tau837
Footballguy
So let me make sure I understand your argument. You are saying Reeves is better than one current HOF coach - Levy - and that justifies Reeves making the HOF. Is that correct?As for Levy vs. Reeves:1. Super Bowls.- Both coached in 4 Super Bowls but lost all 4.- Levy led his team to 4 straight, and is the only coach ever to do that.- Reeves took two franchises over a 12 year span.- This is a wash IMO.2. Awards.- Reeves won 2 NFL COY; Levy won 1 NFL COY award and was a coach on the 1990s All Decade team.- Levy was also AFC COY 2 other times; I'm not sure where to determine how many other times Reeves was AFC/NFC COY, if any.- Edge to Reeves.3. Winning.- Levy's overall record is 154-120 (0.562); Reeves' overall record is 201-174-2 (0.536).- Sure, Reeves won 47 more games, but it took him 103 more games to do it.- Levy is better in both regular season and postseason winning percentage.- In Levy's last 10 seasons (1988-1997), the Bills had the best winning percentage in the AFC and were second only to the 49ers in the NFL.- Reeves took over 3 franchises coming off records of 8-8, 6-10, and 3-13; Levy took over 2 franchises coming off 2-12 and 2-14 records. Arguably, Levy had a harder road to winning records with his teams.- Edge to Levy.4. Longevity.- Reeves coached 6 more seasons and 103 more games than Levy, and he was successful with 3 franchises.- But Levy won the same number of conference and division titles as Reeves despite coaching 6 fewer seasons.- In this category, Reeves wins on quantity and Levy wins on quality. This is a wash IMO.5. Innovation.- Levy created the K-Gun no huddle offense.- I'm not aware of any innovation for Reeves. I am aware that the Broncos' offense improved significantly the season after Reeves left and sustained greater success for years afterwards.- Edge to Levy.6. I don't think this is necessarily taken into account in HOF voting, but Levy won 2 Grey Cups in 3 chances in 5 years in the CFL.I think Levy is arguably one of the weaker, if not the weakest, modern era coaches in the HOF. Yet it appears to me he is more worthy than Reeves.So if you extrapolate Levy's regular season winning percentage over 357 games (the amount Reeves coached), Levy would have 10 more regular season wins. And Reeves post-season record was 11-9 versus Levy at 11-8.From my vantage point, those look like 2 very ho-hum reasons to kibosh Reeves chances. While Reeves lost all those SB's, so did Levy and if memory serves, at least Reeves was the underdog for all of his. And as mentioned above, taking two teams to the SB is something Levy cannot boast.It's true he did accomplish a lot. You didn't even mention the fact that Reeves won two NFL COY awards in the NFC in the 1990s.However, his regular season winning percentage was only .535 in the regular season and .550 in the postseason. Since you brought up Levy, Levy's winning percentage was .561 in the regular season and .579 in the postseason.Unfortunately for Reeves, he lost all those Super Bowls. One win might have put him over the top.Marv Levy?Borat said:Reeves is 8th in all-time coaching victories (regular season). Names above him are ones like Shula, Landy, Halas, Lambeau, Brown, Noll. Schotty is also on that list
Point being, Reeves was a heck of a coach. Took two franchises to the SB. Coached in 4 SB's...
Tau837
Footballguy
I'm not familiar with a career service award.As for Lebeau, he has been a great defensive coach, but he has no chance at the HOF. First off, I'm not aware of anyone in the HOF solely for assistant coaching - all the coaches were head coaches, and all the contributors have other positives. Secondly, Lebeau was a head coach for the Bengals for 3 years, and his teams went 12-33.
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The Man with the Plan
Footballguy
Tiki Barber
Brian Urlacher
Champ Bailey
Terrell Davis
Todd Christensen
Brian Urlacher
Champ Bailey
Terrell Davis
Todd Christensen
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I don't disagree I'm solely referring to his 40 or 50 or ??(geesh it's a ton) years of service to the league. I remember it came up when the Bengals played the Titans. Fisher would have to coach 20 more years, Tomlin 30 more or somesuch to tie him. Don't recall the exact numbers but, the guy really has spent his adult life in the NFL. They'll find something for him.
Don't his stats pale in comparison to current TEs because it was a different era? Probably the worst possible time to vote him in. He'd better beat Shannon and Tony G, (Coates?).
Didn't Levy and Joe Gibbs(80s) take some pages from Steve Spurrier's playbook-so to speak. Was Spurrier the 3WR set guy in the USFL that Gibbs used so successfully in the 80s? I believe Kelly ran the no huddle offense somewhat similarly in the USFL too.When with the Giants, Reeves actually used some plays that Tom Landry used to run. People hadn't seen this play or that play in a long time til they did it. IMO While Reeves was somewhat unoriginal, he had an excellent ability to glean good ideas off of different coaches and apply them. His knowledge of NFL history always amazed me when Mike and the Mad Dog got him talking about older teams. Reeves could tell you what plays all sorts of teams used to run didn't really matter what decade either. He was a human encyclopedia of coaching history.
The Man with the Plan
Footballguy
I don't think so. In his prime he put up high quality seasons that are as good as any tight end has ever had.. He doesn't have the high total numbers because he got hurt and got out of the game when he was only 32. I don't think that makes him any less of a great player.In his era he was a dominant player. Isn't that what the hall-of-fame is all about (or should be about)? Putting in the best players to ever play the game?I don't see why there isn't room for Shannon Sharpe, Tony Gonzalez, and Todd Christensen in the Pro Football Hall-of-Fame.
Tau837
Footballguy
So you think these guys will retire before 2013? They are both 30. I do think both will make it, but not within the 10 year window.
There have been a lot of debates on both of these guys in this forum. My opinion is that neither deserves to make it.Davis has not been a finalist in 2 years of eligibility. A problem for him short term is that Emmitt becomes eligible in 2010 and Bettis, Martin, and Faulk all become eligible in 2011. So he needs to get in the next class or probably will not have a chance for several years... by which time the next group, including Tomlinson, will be eligible or nearly eligible.Tiki does not become eligible until 2012. That will be in the midst of a heavy run of RBs (Thurman Thomas, Emmitt, Bettis, Martin, and Faulk over a span of several seasons). And he will also have to compete with the next group that includes Tomlinson.I don't see either making it within the next 10 years.
Christensen has been eligible for 16 years and has never been a finalist. Why now? There are only 7 modern era TEs in the HOF, and Sharpe should go in soon (he becomes eligible next year). And we already know Gonzalez will go in when he becomes eligible. I don't see it happening for Christensen.
Tau837
Footballguy
I don't know if Levy got the K-Gun from the USFL. Regardless, he brought it to the NFL. Levy did coach one season in the USFL, the year before he took over the Bills.It's certainly not surprising that Reeves used some of Landry's plays. IIRC, he both played and coached under Landry.By no means am I saying Reeves wasn't a great coach. But great coach <> HOF coach.
The Man with the Plan
Footballguy
Champ Bailey will probably still be around. I'm not sure about Brian Urlacher. He has an arthritic back which is manageable now but who knows how much longer he can take the pounding in the NFL. I could see him retiring sooner rather than later.
I would put Davis in over Bettis and Martin as I feel that he was a better player than both of them. In his short career he was able to accomplish more than both of those guys combined. I don't think it's right to hold an injury against him. The hall-of fame should be for the best players who ever played the game not the best players who ever played the game long enough to compile a certain amount of statistics. Plus there's the Gale Sayers precedent. If he can get into the hall-of-fame for a short but dominant career then so should Terrell Davis.As for Tiki Barber. He's got the numbers of all the top running backs. He's had over 2000 total yards in a season 4 times. Over 10000 rushing yards and 400 receptions. Top-10 all-time in yards from scrimmage. It's even more impressive when you consider that he had to play behind guys like Gary Brown and Ron Dayne early in his career. Were it not for Giants management stupidity we could be talking about Tiki Barber possibly having 20000 yards from scrimmage. I don't think that should take away from his overall greatness. Obviously guys like Marshall Faulk and Emmitt Smith should get in over him. He was better than Curtis Martin so he should go in ahead of him and he's way better than Jerome Bettis who I don't think has any business being in the hall-of-fame.
I know I know. I just felt like he should have been in before. Now he has no shot which is unfortunate since when he played at his best he was a good as any tight end to play the game.
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Tau837
Footballguy
I think we're in agreement on these guys, both will make it. I just doubt either will make it in the next 10 years. Urlacher is showing no signs of retirement right now, so even if he does retire before 2013, he'd have to get in right after he becomes eligible, and I'm not sure that will happen.The Man with the Plan said:
thatguy
Footballguy
Out of curiosity, let's say Bailey were to retire when his current contract expires, which I think is at the end of 2010 season, do you think he would make it in your ten year window?ETA: I don't think he will retire then, but anything is possible. Champ is a pretty arrogant player, and I could see him hanging it up when he is no longer considered among the league's elite.
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Tau837
Footballguy
People bring up Gale Sayers a lot to discuss Terrell Davis's case, but it's apples and oranges IMO. Davis had 3 elite seasons out of 4 before his injury, with an elite supporting cast. Sayers had 5 out of 5 with a poor supporting cast. I think that's enough to make the difference right there, but there is more. Aside from that, I don't want to rehash a lot of old discussion, but it's in all in this thread (and others).Here is why I don't think Tiki will make it:The Man with the Plan said:
1. He was 1st team All Pro only once, and he made only 3 Pro Bowls... these things appear to show that he did not stand out among his peers.
2. He is #10 in YFS, but otherwise he does not rank highly in career numbers.
3. He was merely average in the postseason and was not on a championship team.
4. His reputation seems to have taken a hit in his last season and since he retired.
And, finally, I think Martin and particularly Bettis are underrated in this forum.
Tau837
Footballguy
Well, if he did that, he'd have 3 years at the end of the 10 year window to make it. It seems that it is fairly rare that players make it in their first year of eligibility, so it might really be more like a 2 year window.I'd say it depends on who he is directly competing with in those 3 years... and it also depends on what he does by the end of 2010. For example, does he make 1st team All Pro again? How many times? Does he break the top 10 in career interceptions? Does Denver make a deep playoff run by then? Etc.All that said, I think he'd have a solid chance to make it in that scenario, but I wouldn't call it a lock at this point.
Tau837
Footballguy
Well, the 2008 class has 4 of these 35 candidates - McDaniel, Smith, Thomas, and Woodson. Hayes is a senior nominee, and I was purposely ignoring such candidates, since I think they are harder to predict. I failed to list Wilson.So this means I still have 31 players listed above that I think will get in within the next 9 classes. That leaves up to 14 spots unaccounted for.
Thoughts?
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Tasker and Reed. :snicker:
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
QB - Obviously Favre. Warner will and should get in. I wouldn't be surprised if either Bengals QB gets in, and both (especially Anderson) would be worthy. I don't think any other QB will or should get in.
RB - Emmitt, Faulk are locks. Martin and Tomlinson are going to make it, I think. Bus will probably make it as well.
WR - Rice will be in the '10 class. Assuming Moss does not retire by 2013 (not sure if that's a good assumption), the only locks I see are Harrison and Owens. Yes, Owens is a lock. I think Brown, Carter and Bruce have good chances and all eventually will get in. And then you know my thoughts on Jimmy Smith, as he should get in as well. Harold Jackson is a guy that would be a deserving senior nominee, as are some pre-1960 WRs.
TE - obviously Sharpe and Gonzalez are locks.
RB - Emmitt, Faulk are locks. Martin and Tomlinson are going to make it, I think. Bus will probably make it as well.
WR - Rice will be in the '10 class. Assuming Moss does not retire by 2013 (not sure if that's a good assumption), the only locks I see are Harrison and Owens. Yes, Owens is a lock. I think Brown, Carter and Bruce have good chances and all eventually will get in. And then you know my thoughts on Jimmy Smith, as he should get in as well. Harold Jackson is a guy that would be a deserving senior nominee, as are some pre-1960 WRs.
TE - obviously Sharpe and Gonzalez are locks.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Do you think Jimmy Smith is more of a HoFer than either Torry Holt or Isaac Bruce? If so, why?
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I suspect by the time Holt's career is done, he'll be a lock in HOF. I think Bruce will probably make the HOF one day and he's a worthy candidate. He's got that monster 1995 but for the prime of his career he was with four other HOFers on offense. Smith was a bigger part of Jacksonville's success for a decade than Bruce was, I think. Smith's peak was also as good or better than Bruce's. It's cutting hairs when you get that close, though.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
Can't speak for all of those guys, but having watched Webster and Dawson their entire careers I can say with confidence that Dawson was at least Webster's equal. I would say he was better, but I wouldn't spend too much time arguing that point if someone disagreed. They were both great centers and both belong in the HOF.Since you appear to be saying Dawson is the best ever, please make a case for that stance. I'd love to understand his case for being better than Mel Hein, Jim Otto, Mike Webster, Jim Ringo, Jim Langer, and Dwight Stephenson. Not that he has to be better than them to merit HOF induction - that's a high standard - but that's what you appear to be claiming here.I would think the best center of all time would easily get in at some point soon.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Reeves did take the Broncos 3 out of 4 seasons. Don't leave this out. The one year they did not make the SB, the Broncos became the first 11 win team NOT to qualify for the playoffs.
Both are fairly accomplished. I think their reputations speak for themselves here...
We can kind of compare 3 & 4 together here. But let's look at the team that Levy & Reeves had. From Levy's Bills, we just had a 3rd HOF elected from his team and there is a decent chance a 4th could eventually make it (Reed). Reeves had Elway and that was about it. If you loook at his tenures with NYG & ATL, he had even less. You can discuss winning, but let's realize that the teams Levy took to the SB were stacked. Reeves never had such talent. The notion that Levy has the 'edge' in this category IYO is faulty. Let's take Reeves career record prior to taking over the Falcons. It's 149-112-2 - A .570 winning percentage. If you were to compare the careers of Levy/Reeves up until that point, they are pretty close to identical. And then within 2 years, he's got the Falcons in the SB. Were his last 5-6 years there memorable, no. But by this time, I think Reeves HOF credentials should have been able to stand on their own.If anything they're equal if not an edge to Reeves.
My understanding is that Marchibroda was as much the innovator behind the K-Gun. Not only that, but that offense requires the QB's essentially to call the plays. As far as an innovation...meh. It's certainly not in the category of WCO. Buddy Ryan is a greater innovator. To me the key is performance. The Broncos and Bills performed well under Reeves and Levy.
That may be true, since his contemporaries in the HOF include names like Shula, Landy, Noll, Walsh & Gibbs. But Levy & Reeves accomplishments are not easily duplicatible. And if Levy is in, I don't think there is any question Reeves should be in.
Tau837
Footballguy
You make a lot of good points throughout your post. But I think the real problem here is that Levy shouldn't be in the HOF. Thus, the fact that Reeves has a comparable resume does not make me think he should be in.More to the point of this thread, with only a max of 5 non senior nominee inductees every year, and Parcells and Tagliabue almost certain to be among the next 9 classes, I can't see Reeves making it.
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Pat Patriot
Footballguy
"I would put Davis in over Bettis and Martin as I feel that he was a better player than both of them. In his short career he was able to accomplish more than both of those guys combined."
Jerome Bettis should not sniff the HOF but because he is the jolly fat man and he was able to stick around and hit certain career plateaus it appears that he will be voted in.
However, Curtis Martin was a GREAT player. He is a lock HOFer to me. He was great for the Patriots and also the Jets. I would vote for Davis over Bettis but not Davis over Martin.
Jerome Bettis should not sniff the HOF but because he is the jolly fat man and he was able to stick around and hit certain career plateaus it appears that he will be voted in.
However, Curtis Martin was a GREAT player. He is a lock HOFer to me. He was great for the Patriots and also the Jets. I would vote for Davis over Bettis but not Davis over Martin.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
One thing going for Reeves is that he was a pretty decent player, too.
Tau837
Footballguy
Well, he wasn't a HOF caliber player, was he? I don't think so.I am not aware of any person who is in the HOF due to combined accomplishments. That is, while there are HOFers who were both players and coaches/contributors, I think each of them got in based on merits of one or the other, not combined merits. Do you know of anyone that refutes this?
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Whether or not either of us thinks Levy should or should not be in the HOF is irrelevant. If a bar has been set, a bar has been set. Levy was a HOF finalist 3 times (1999, 2000, 2001). That means his career and accomplishments were discussed very thoroughly during that time of consecutive years. He did not get in on a whim. One thing to also consider as it relates to Reeves career. If I'm not mistaken, the salary cap became a part of the NFL in 1993. While Levy went to the SB that year, the real effects of the salary cap as it pertained to extending parity throughout the league took some time. Levy only coached 67 games in a post salary cap NFL. Reeves coached 178 games (both include playoff records).My point here is that, the NFL became a different league at this time and Reeves coached a good part of his career during this new era. Levy not so much and that a reason you see a significant disparity in winning percentage as well. But Reeves is one of 8 coaches to attain 200 wins. To dismiss his longevity and his record is to not give the man his due.Just Win Baby said:
Tau837
Footballguy
OK, you think Reeves is worthy. I don't. I can agree to disagree. Given the purpose of this thread, are you saying you believe Reeves will get in within the next 9 HOF classes?
Tau837
Footballguy
You may think that LeBeau is very close, but I disagree. Like I said, I'm not aware of anyone in for combined accomplishments. LeBeau played long enough ago that it's clear he isn't getting in solely for his accomplishments as a player. No one has gotten in due to accomplishments as an assistant coach, nor is it clear that LeBeau is the most deserving assistant coach of all time. Of course, most really successful assistant coaches move on to head coach... and the best of those - the most successful head coaches - have a chance at the HOF. But LeBeau has a horrible record as a head coach.IMO he has no shot at the HOF.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I have voiced my opinion that I think a lot of Bettis' candidacy was added by hanging around to bump up his career stats, but both players in their prime were probably pretty close.I can't say that he was all that worse than Martin.Best rushing yardage year:Martin 1697 vs Bettis 1665Years with 1400 rushing yards:Martin 4 vs Bettis 3Factoring in that Bettis was a 6 time Pro Bowler and 2 time All Pro vs 5 and 1 for Martin, obviously some people with votes thought Bettis was at least in the discussion of being equal to Martin.Where Martin gets a huge boost is from age 29 on, as his numbers stayed high or even got better while Bettis' prodcution took a substantial nose dive from 29 on. Looking at things as a whole, I do agree Martin should have a better resume than Bettis, but I'mnot sure he's light years ahead.Pat Patriot said:
TC
Footballguy
Yes. Tinglehoff is very much overdue. BTW, Forget "soon". There hasn't been a center enshrined that played in the moden era, so don't hold your breath.I would think the best center of all time would easily get in at some point soon.
TC
Footballguy
Unlike Gonzales, Sharpe was not considered a 'true' TE. He was often a flanker lined up as a recieving TE. When considering Sharpe -who was a very entertaining player- think of him compared to other WRs. If you do that, he's not a sure thing at all. Several years ago, I lost some interest in the HoF enducties only because the MUST ELECT FIVE rule delutes the quality of the membership. About half of the more recent former players would not have been strongly considered if a 'quota' were not in place,
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Tau837
Footballguy
I agree Martin is more worthy than Bettis. However, I think both are HOFers.In addition to what David posted above, Bettis also has some other things over Martin:1. 1996 NFL Comeback Player of the Year and 2001 NFL Man of the Year awards.2. A Super Bowl ring. And while that is clearly a team accomplishment, Bettis was a veteran leader on that team and IMO his contribution was greater than his numbers.3. His success came as a "big back". Some people will think that makes his accomplishments more impressive.Those aren't huge edges, but, just along with the extra Pro Bowl selection and 1st team All Pro selection, there are a number of small things he has over Martin that collectively help to make up for some of gap in Martin's better numbers.Bettis is a very polarizing player for some reason, despite the fact that he is generally a likable guy (another thing that will probably help his case). There are a lot of people on this board that seem to feel very strongly that he should not be a HOFer.
Tau837
Footballguy
The Pro Football HOF defines modern era as "majority of career played after 1946." So you're off base here, at least on the terminology. Perhaps you meant a center hasn't been enshrined that played after 1990...? That is when Webster's career ended.These centers all are modern era HOFers according to the HOF definition of modern era:Frank GatskiJim LangerJim OttoJim RingoMike WebsterAnd these guys are modern era HOFers who played multiple positions including center:Chuck Bednarik (also played LB)Bruce Matthews (also played G & T)Yes. Tinglehoff is very much overdue. BTW, Forget "soon". There hasn't been a center enshrined that played in the moden era, so don't hold your breath.I would think the best center of all time would easily get in at some point soon.
what? bored? yeah he's the one off base, cmon JWBThe Pro Football HOF defines modern era as "majority of career played after 1946." So you're off base here, at least on the terminology.Yes. Tinglehoff is very much overdue. BTW, Forget "soon". There hasn't been a center enshrined that played in the moden era, so don't hold your breath.I would think the best center of all time would easily get in at some point soon.
I don't get the man of the year comment as Curtis has been named man of the year by several organizations, some more than once. Curtis was/is an exceptional man.I'm fairly certain that people in Pittsburgh(Bettis' "hometown" and Curtis' hometown) would have a hard time deciding if Bettis were "a better man" than Curtis. If they can't decide, I don't think anyone else should try to.Go after Warrick Dunn's character next, maybe he hasn't done enough charitable things
stevegamer
Footballguy
Responding to the original list:
QB - Favre (lock)
Others: Ken Anderson is a pretty interesting candidate, and I think he deserves it, but I doubt he'll make it. Warner might retire by then - winning today (Super Bowl) would help his image a ton, and probably sew up enshrinement. Anyone else getting in from the modern era, unles there is a suden retirement from manning or Brady would be bad - too many QB's already realtive to position.
RB - Emmitt, Faulk (locks), Martin, Bettis
Tomlinson I don't think will hang them up soon enough to get in the period you mention.
Others: Alexander is a no, and I'm a Seahawk fan.
WR - Rice, Carter, Harrison (locks), Bruce
Brown: I'm not sure he actually makes the HoF anytime soon.
Others: Owens as a non-first ballot guy I can definitley see. He belongs in, but while I normally don't think much of what ballot people get in on, I really would like him to have to wait - a decade might be enough. It would be one more spot deserving candidates form positions other than RB/WR/QB can have every year. Plus the interview responses would be comedy gold. Reed may make it in.
TE - Sharpe, Gonzalez (locks)
OL - Grimm, Kuechenberg, Allen, Pace, Ogden, Walter Jones (locks), Shields, Roaf
Not sure all of these guys will make it within the 10 year window. Assuming those active will retire by 2013.
All of them should. More OL in the hall is a good thing.
Others: Dermontti Dawson should be in. It's weird to be the second best center in your team's history but the best of your era.
DL - Strahan, Sapp, Dent (locks)
Others: Taylor would be a good candidate. I want to Claude Humphrey get in, but I think he's a senior guy.
LB - Brooks, Lewis, Seau
Others:
Gradishar deserves to be in, has he fallen to the senior list as well? I probably am missing a couple other guys
DB - Deion (lock), Aeneas Williams
Others:
Rodney Harrison simply isn't good enough. He's not Ed Reed, Brian Dawkins, or even John Lynch. I think all 3 of those guys will make it at some point.
Not sure about full-time safeties.
Had to comment on this - last time I checked there were normally 2 safeties on the field, same as the first time I checked 30+ years ago. If we start to debate whether safeties should make the Hall - can we rename it "Hall of Quarterbacks and some other guys and just restrict it to "skill positions"?
Specialists - None
Other: Guy might make it eventually as a senior nominee.
Coaches - Parcells
I think you're right on Parcells and why he didn't make it..
Others: Holmgren, if he stays retired - maybe.
Contributors - Tagliabue
I think pretty much everyone who has been the commissioner is in - I'm not sure why it's an automatic. he's okay, but there are a lot of players at ignored positions (OL & entire D) that deserve it more.
Others:
Modell will get in, as will probably some other long-time owners. Sabol due to NFL Films would be a very good choice.
QB - Favre (lock)
Others: Ken Anderson is a pretty interesting candidate, and I think he deserves it, but I doubt he'll make it. Warner might retire by then - winning today (Super Bowl) would help his image a ton, and probably sew up enshrinement. Anyone else getting in from the modern era, unles there is a suden retirement from manning or Brady would be bad - too many QB's already realtive to position.
RB - Emmitt, Faulk (locks), Martin, Bettis
Tomlinson I don't think will hang them up soon enough to get in the period you mention.
Others: Alexander is a no, and I'm a Seahawk fan.
WR - Rice, Carter, Harrison (locks), Bruce
Brown: I'm not sure he actually makes the HoF anytime soon.
Others: Owens as a non-first ballot guy I can definitley see. He belongs in, but while I normally don't think much of what ballot people get in on, I really would like him to have to wait - a decade might be enough. It would be one more spot deserving candidates form positions other than RB/WR/QB can have every year. Plus the interview responses would be comedy gold. Reed may make it in.
TE - Sharpe, Gonzalez (locks)
OL - Grimm, Kuechenberg, Allen, Pace, Ogden, Walter Jones (locks), Shields, Roaf
Not sure all of these guys will make it within the 10 year window. Assuming those active will retire by 2013.
All of them should. More OL in the hall is a good thing.
Others: Dermontti Dawson should be in. It's weird to be the second best center in your team's history but the best of your era.
DL - Strahan, Sapp, Dent (locks)
Others: Taylor would be a good candidate. I want to Claude Humphrey get in, but I think he's a senior guy.
LB - Brooks, Lewis, Seau
Others:
Gradishar deserves to be in, has he fallen to the senior list as well? I probably am missing a couple other guys
DB - Deion (lock), Aeneas Williams
Others:
Rodney Harrison simply isn't good enough. He's not Ed Reed, Brian Dawkins, or even John Lynch. I think all 3 of those guys will make it at some point.
Not sure about full-time safeties.
Had to comment on this - last time I checked there were normally 2 safeties on the field, same as the first time I checked 30+ years ago. If we start to debate whether safeties should make the Hall - can we rename it "Hall of Quarterbacks and some other guys and just restrict it to "skill positions"?
Specialists - None
Other: Guy might make it eventually as a senior nominee.
Coaches - Parcells
I think you're right on Parcells and why he didn't make it..
Others: Holmgren, if he stays retired - maybe.
Contributors - Tagliabue
I think pretty much everyone who has been the commissioner is in - I'm not sure why it's an automatic. he's okay, but there are a lot of players at ignored positions (OL & entire D) that deserve it more.
Others:
Modell will get in, as will probably some other long-time owners. Sabol due to NFL Films would be a very good choice.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Perhaps, but I think Bruce and Holt being a part of what was one of the best offenses in league history will help their causes, while Jimmy Smith playing in Jacksonville, a city that gets ignored sometimes, will not help his. Jimmy Smith's lack of TD receptions throughout his career hurts his case, too. 67 TD receptions in 150 NFL starts is pretty weak by HoF standards; he never even scored more than 8 TDs in a single season. Conversely, Bruce has 91 TD receptions in 180 NFL starts, and both he and Holt had multiple seasons of 10 TDs or more.
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