Who's better? (1 Viewer)

[bostonfred]

Which quarterback is better?

Through their first three full regular seasons as starters:

Peyton Manning: 26 wins, 22 losses, 12,200 yards, 85 TDs, 58 INTs

Eli Manning: 29 wins, 19 losses, 10,342 yards, 71 TDs, 55 INTs

Playoffs:

Peyton Manning: 0 wins, 2 losses, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 0 Superbowl titles.

Eli Manning: 4 wins, 2 losses, 8 TDs, 5 INTs, one Superbowl title.

Peyton certainly has the better regular season statistics, and he started right away. Eli has won more games in both the regular season and postseason, threw slightly fewer INTs, and has a Superbowl win on his resume.

Neither Peyton (29th, 17th, 15th in the NFL) nor Eli(14th, 24th, 17th in the NFL) have had great defenses to work with in those three years.

Peyton had Marvin Harrison, Edgerrin James and Tarik Glenn, while Eli has seen a number of different starters at running back and left tackle, and the oft injured Plaxico and Toomer to throw to.

I think most people assume that Peyton is better, but Eli has been much more succesful in his first three years, with less to work with.

Note also that both the veteran Peyton and the younger Eli lost close games to the then undefeated Patriots in 2007, but only Eli was able to get a second chance and beat them. In Eli and Peyton's only head to head matchup so far, Eli was 20/34/247 with 2 TDs and 1 INT, while Peyton was 25/41/276 with only 1 TD and 1 INT. The Colts won that game.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Peyton didn't have players like Strahan, Umenyiora, and Justin Tuck to harass opposing QBs early in his career. QBs are given far too much credit for wins and blame for losses.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Bostonfred's next thread:

Marino or Fiedler?

 

[bostonfred]

Peyton didn't have players like Strahan, Umenyiora, and Justin Tuck to harass opposing QBs early in his career. QBs are given far too much credit for wins and blame for losses.

Neither Peyton (29th, 17th, 15th in the NFL) nor Eli(14th, 24th, 17th in the NFL) have had great defenses to work with in those three years.

 

[David Yudkin]

Since Peyton's first year, the Colts have gone 102-42 (.708) in the regular season.

The Jags under Byron Leftwich went 26-22 (same as Peyton) in his first three years. Should we include him in the discussion?

 

[Chase Stuart]

Through three seasons....

Kordell Stewart: 22 TD, 19 INT

Steve Young: 21 TD, 21 INT

I'm just sayin'...

 

[bostonfred]

Since Peyton's first year, the Colts have gone 102-42 (.708) in the regular season.The Jags under Byron Leftwich went 26-22 (same as Peyton) in his first three years. Should we include him in the discussion?

Of course not. Byron Leftwich is way behind Peyton in a number of categories. Since Eli's first year, the Giants are just over .600 in the regular season, and .667 in the postseason, compared with Peyton, who is just over .700 in the regular season, but only .500 in the postseason. Eli Manning has never missed the playoffs, has a better record, and already has as many rings as Peyton, who has missed the playoffs on multiple occasions. Give me the guy who consistently makes, and wins in, the playoffs.

 

[bostonfred]

Through three seasons....Kordell Stewart: 22 TD, 19 INTSteve Young: 21 TD, 21 INTI'm just sayin'...

Those aren't Steve Young's numbers from his first three full seasons as a starter. You're better than this.

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

Through three seasons....Kordell Stewart: 22 TD, 19 INTSteve Young: 21 TD, 21 INTI'm just sayin'...

Those aren't Steve Young's numbers from his first three full seasons as a starter. You're better than this.

Peyton didn't have a defense worth a s--t for many years. I get the feeling you're just trying to ruffle some feathers with some typical Patriots lovers jargon. Anyone in their right mind knows who the better QB is. We all get it that you hate the Colts and Peyton Manning.

 

[SSOG]

Peyton. Ignore the stats. Eli Manning overthrows receivers like it's his job. He's unreliable, goes on HUGE cold stretches, is inaccurate, and doesn't make good decisions. He's one of the worst regular starting QBs in the league (i.e. not QBs who are stop-gap solutions, journeymen, lame ducks, or emergency options). He also happened to luck into guys like Tiki Barber to carry his team early on, and guys like Osi/Strahan/Tuck to win him a championship. Doesn't mean he's a better player, though.

 

[RavensUNFL]

Peyton didn't have players like Strahan, Umenyiora, and Justin Tuck to harass opposing QBs early in his career. QBs are given far too much credit for wins and blame for losses.

Agree 100%I have said that exact same thing for as long as I have watched football. Like the people that think Marino is not an all time great because he didn't win a Superbowl, I am sure if he didn't have to depend on the defense he would have plenty of rings, cause he damn sure did his part.

This is a silly comparison to me, Eli still can't carry Peytons jock and most likely never will.

 

[Jason Wood]

Talk about a fishing expedition. Wow, just wow.

 

[Mr. Black]

Okay someone needs to say it to make this guy happy, Eli is better than Peyton........................NOT

Come on this topic is ridiculous put your stat books away all you have to do is watch football to clearly see who the better QB is and it's not even close and I'm a fan of both of them.

 

[joffer]

Playoffs: Peyton Manning: 0 wins, 2 losses, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 0 Superbowl titles. Eli Manning: 4 wins, 2 losses, 8 TDs, 5 INTs, one Superbowl title.

huh?

 

[Tau837]

Bostonfred's next thread:Marino or Fiedler?

What a joke this thread is, even for bostonfred.

 

[texasheat]

Elway or Brister?

Rice or Carruth?

Payton or Paul Palmer?

I'm just sayin

 

[Despyzer]

Seeing we have a stickied thread about not picking on the Patriots, shouldn't we have one about Patriot fans not coming up with ridiculous ways to belittle Peyton's achievements?

 

[Despyzer]

Peyton. Ignore the stats. Eli Manning overthrows receivers like it's his job. He's unreliable, goes on HUGE cold stretches, is inaccurate, and doesn't make good decisions. He's one of the worst regular starting QBs in the league (i.e. not QBs who are stop-gap solutions, journeymen, lame ducks, or emergency options). He also happened to luck into guys like Tiki Barber to carry his team early on, and guys like Osi/Strahan/Tuck to win him a championship. Doesn't mean he's a better player, though.

Also, let's get over this "ESPN highlight reel" mentality. Other than one or two somewhat impressive plays and a couple very lucky breaks, we'd be talking about how the Eli's play sunk the Giants with his abysmal play in the Super Bowl.

 

[Couch Potato]

Conveniently left out of the OP's numbers were the completion % and YPAs:

Peyton / Eli

1st yr: 56.7% and 6.5 / 48.2% and 5.3

2nd yr: 62.1% and 7.8 / 52.8% and 6.8

3rd yr: 62.5% and 7.7 / 57.7% and 6.2

4th yr: 62.7% and 7.6 / 56.1% and 6.3

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

Peyton plays consistently at a higher level than Eli. Although his playoff run will go down in Giant history, there were times during last season Giant fans wanted him benched, thrown off the team, anything as long as he wasn't under center.

If you have some stats where Eli is better, you may want to edit the title to Manning, Manning and Brady as Peyton and Brady play at about the same level.

 

[Zoomanji]

I can't believe I keep checking this thread

 

[Despyzer]

Peyton plays consistently at a higher level than Eli. Although his playoff run will go down in Giant history, there were times during last season Giant fans wanted him benched, thrown off the team, anything as long as he wasn't under center.

True enough. I work with this guy who is a die-hard Giants fan. He spent about the first ten or eleven weeks of the season complaining about how Eli was the worst starting QB in the league, they should be starting Pillsbury Throwboy, looking to draft a QB in the first round, and seeing what they could get for Eli in a trade. Of course this was all hyperbole, but it reflects just how frustrated he was by Eli's horrible play.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Peyton didn't have players like Strahan, Umenyiora, and Justin Tuck to harass opposing QBs early in his career. QBs are given far too much credit for wins and blame for losses.

Eli will never have a nice Little Dome over his head, 2 WRs named Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, & an a RB as talented as Edge.Tiki was very talented, but he was also a loud mouth and oftened turned on his QB and Coaching Staff... followed by Shockey & Strahan. Eli has always had an uphill climb.

 

[djcolts]

The 1998 Colts were awful. There's a reason they had the first pick in the draft before that season - because the 1997 Colts were awful.

 

[Reaper]

Seeing we have a stickied thread about not picking on the Patriots, shouldn't we have one about Patriot fans not coming up with ridiculous ways to belittle Peyton's achievements?

If only I went out drinking with Bostonfred last night this would never have happened...Too much time coop'd up in the hotel room - NBA playoffs over, American Idol over.

 

[Zoomanji]

Peyton didn't have players like Strahan, Umenyiora, and Justin Tuck to harass opposing QBs early in his career. QBs are given far too much credit for wins and blame for losses.

Eli will never have a nice Little Dome over his head, 2 WRs named Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, & an a RB as talented as Edge.Tiki was very talented, but he was also a loud mouth and oftened turned on his QB and Coaching Staff... followed by Shockey & Strahan. Eli has always had an uphill climb.

Are you saying Eli is better or just again?

 

[Chase Stuart]

I'm really :shuked: at everyone saying to ignore the stats here, when Manning's stats dwarf Eli's stats by such an incredibly large margin.

 

[djcolts]

IND rushing D in 1999 playoffs vs TEN - 33 carries for 197 yards (their D was worse in the playoffs because their best Defensive player that year, C Bennett, got hurt in the final game of the regular season).

IND rushing D in 2000 playoffs vs MIA - 48 carries for 258 yards (including OT - because Vandershank missed a GW kick wide right).

 

[KellysHeroes]

Peyton didn't have players like Strahan, Umenyiora, and Justin Tuck to harass opposing QBs early in his career. QBs are given far too much credit for wins and blame for losses.

Eli will never have a nice Little Dome over his head, 2 WRs named Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, & an a RB as talented as Edge.Tiki was very talented, but he was also a loud mouth and oftened turned on his QB and Coaching Staff... followed by Shockey & Strahan.

Eli has always had an uphill climb.

Are you saying Eli is better or just again?

A little of both... Look, Eli will never put up regular season stats like Peyton does. Eli will never break records like the way Peyton has and will continue to do so. But Great Stats doesn't always equal Greatness.The way Eli took control of that team, after the fans in NY gave up on him, and lead his offense down the field truly impressed me...

I just can't see Peyton, when his own fans boo him at home, turn it around and win 3 road straight games (one of them being the coldiest ever) and then be a major factor in the greatest upset in the sports history.

Peyton had that amazing comeback in 07 against the Pats... he shock-off a very bad 1st half and lead his team to a 24 pt run. No one can take that away... but we have seen some badness from Peyton has well. When theres pressure on him; he tends to make bad throws. He turns on his team... we've seen him throw his team under the bus. He calls people out.

Eli just doesn't do that, he just deals w/ it.

I would say they are very very close... But anyone, including me would choose Peyton over Eli to start a game... when Peyton is on; its scary good. But if theres 2 minutes left, and I'm down by a TD. Give me Eli over Peyton.

 

[Anarchy99]

Will the Eli backers change their tune if the G-Men end up 8-8 and miss the playoffs this year? How about if he goes on to lead the team to several mediocre seasons?

I realize fantasy football does not equal NFL football, but here are the fantasy totals for the top 25 QBs in their first three seasons in the league (since 1970):

1 Peyton Manning 939.45

2 Jeff Garcia 935.90

3 Dan Marino 932.95

4 Aaron Brooks 759.30

5 Donovan McNabb 751.70

6 Marc Bulger 731.15

7 Jim Kelly 716.15

8 Drew Bledsoe 696.80

9 Ben Roethlisberger 658.05

10 Ken O'Brien 651.30

11 Daunte Culpepper 647.65

12 Warren Moon 645.60

13 Boomer Esiason 633.40

14 Kurt Warner 624.95

15 John Elway 619.20

16 Jim Zorn 616.75

17 Jake Plummer 610.95

18 Byron Leftwich 606.75

19 Steve Grogan 606.15

20 David Carr 604.00

21 Don Majkowski 602.60

22 Bernie Kosar 600.15

23 Tony Banks 598.05

24 Eli Manning 594.05

25 Mark Rypien 586.50

Note that this counts only stats for first three years in the league . . . NOT first three years as a starter. So someone like Culpepper effectively has a year with 1 point included (his rookie season).

 

[FUBAR]

Peyton plays consistently at a higher level than Eli. Although his playoff run will go down in Giant history, there were times during last season Giant fans wanted him benched, thrown off the team, anything as long as he wasn't under center.

If you have some stats where Eli is better, you may want to edit the title to Manning, Manning and Brady as Peyton and Brady play at about the same level.

That's the key IMO. When Eli is on, he's almost as good as anyone in the league, but Peyton is almost always "on" - except against the Patriots. Eli vs. New England >> Peyton vs. New England.

Happy?

 

[texasheat]

Will the Eli backers change their tune if the G-Men end up 8-8 and miss the playoffs this year? How about if he goes on to lead the team to several mediocre seasons?

I realize fantasy football does not equal NFL football, but here are the fantasy totals for the top 25 QBs in their first three seasons in the league (since 1970):

4 Aaron Brooks 759.30

20 David Carr 604.00

What happened to these guys? Shocked to see them on this list knowing how bad they are now.

 

[Anarchy99]

Will the Eli backers change their tune if the G-Men end up 8-8 and miss the playoffs this year? How about if he goes on to lead the team to several mediocre seasons?

I realize fantasy football does not equal NFL football, but here are the fantasy totals for the top 25 QBs in their first three seasons in the league (since 1970):

4 Aaron Brooks 759.30

20 David Carr 604.00

What happened to these guys? Shocked to see them on this list knowing how bad they are now.

Another interesting list are players with under 200 fantasy points in their first 3 seasons. Notables on that one includeoug Flutie 159

Matt Hasselbeck 151

Joe Theisman 117

David Garrard 87

Ken Stabler 71

Ron Jaworski 64

Jake Delhomme 52

Aaron Rodgers 24

Jeff Hostetler 0

Trent Green 0

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I'm really :shuked: at everyone saying to ignore the stats here, when Manning's stats dwarf Eli's stats by such an incredibly large margin.

isn't Eli a Manning? who's on first?

 

[Despyzer]

I'm really :shuked: at everyone saying to ignore the stats here, when Manning's stats dwarf Eli's stats by such an incredibly large margin.

isn't Eli a Manning? who's on first?

It's easy to figure out who is being referenced based on the context of the sentence. In a sentence comparing "Manning" to Eli, he meant Peyton. Here are some other examples:"Manning put up some incredible numbers Sunday" = Peyton

"Manning really doesn't seem to care how many INTs he throws" = Eli

"Sometimes Manning's offense seems unstoppable" = Peyton

"They won this week despite some stupid mistakes by Manning" = Eli

See? Easy.

 

[The Ballhawk]

manning

 

[Chase Stuart]

I'm really :shuked: at everyone saying to ignore the stats here, when Manning's stats dwarf Eli's stats by such an incredibly large margin.

isn't Eli a Manning? who's on first?

It's easy to figure out who is being referenced based on the context of the sentence. In a sentence comparing "Manning" to Eli, he meant Peyton. Here are some other examples:"Manning put up some incredible numbers Sunday" = Peyton

"Manning really doesn't seem to care how many INTs he throws" = Eli

"Sometimes Manning's offense seems unstoppable" = Peyton

"They won this week despite some stupid mistakes by Manning" = Eli

See? Easy.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'm really :shuked: at everyone saying to ignore the stats here, when Manning's stats dwarf Eli's stats by such an incredibly large margin.

isn't Eli a Manning? who's on first?

It's easy to figure out who is being referenced based on the context of the sentence. In a sentence comparing "Manning" to Eli, he meant Peyton. Here are some other examples:"Manning put up some incredible numbers Sunday" = Peyton

"Manning really doesn't seem to care how many INTs he throws" = Eli

"Sometimes Manning's offense seems unstoppable" = Peyton

"They won this week despite some stupid mistakes by Manning" = Eli

See? Easy.

 

[Couch Potato]

Good stuff Despyzer. Quality.

My question is whether anyone feels sorry for poor Cooper Manning. First son of Archie, big brother to Peyton and Eli. The guy must feel like he was the product of some sperm donor or something. He probably makes $40,000 a year too while the rest make gazillions.

 

[Tau837]

Good stuff Despyzer. Quality. My question is whether anyone feels sorry for poor Cooper Manning. First son of Archie, big brother to Peyton and Eli. The guy must feel like he was the product of some sperm donor or something. He probably makes $40,000 a year too while the rest make gazillions.

Cooper was also a great athlete, but he had a serious spinal condition that forced him to give up football. Although he had already switched to WR by that time. Apparently, he's a partner at an energy firm, so he is probably pretty successful.

 

[Couch Potato]

Good stuff Despyzer. Quality. My question is whether anyone feels sorry for poor Cooper Manning. First son of Archie, big brother to Peyton and Eli. The guy must feel like he was the product of some sperm donor or something. He probably makes $40,000 a year too while the rest make gazillions.

Cooper was also a great athlete, but he had a serious spinal condition that forced him to give up football. Although he had already switched to WR by that time. Apparently, he's a partner at an energy firm, so he is probably pretty successful.

My teammate JWB knows stuff. Next time I'll just give you a phone call.

 

[Stunt Rock]

I think it's absurd to argue that Eli is better than Peyton but some of the hyperbole in the other direction is just as absurd. The playoff wins weren't just the D line. Eli played lights out in the post-season last year. Eli's inconsistent, and the inconsistency isn't just game to game, it's play to play... hence his relatively poor accuracy. But to anoint him the "worst starting QB in the league" is an exercise in overstatement.

 

[SSOG]

...we have seen some badness from Peyton has well. When theres pressure on him; he tends to make bad throws. He turns on his team... we've seen him throw his team under the bus. He calls people out.

Eli just doesn't do that, he makes bad throws whether the pressure is on or not.

Fixed.

I think it's absurd to argue that Eli is better than Peyton but some of the hyperbole in the other direction is just as absurd. The playoff wins weren't just the D line. Eli played lights out in the post-season last year. Eli's inconsistent, and the inconsistency isn't just game to game, it's play to play... hence his relatively poor accuracy. But to anoint him the "worst starting QB in the league" is an exercise in overstatement.

I don't think he's the worst starting QB in the league, I think he's the worst starter-caliber QB in the league. Big difference. Tarvaris Jackson, Rex Grossman, Alex Smith, Chris Simms... these guys aren't starter caliber. Once you get past the guys who, at the moment, have no business starting a game for a playoff contender, then you're left with the starter-caliber QBs. Eli's towards the bottom of that bucket of QBs.

 

[Finless]

In a start up Dynasty Eli is the clear choice here. I'm not sure it's really even that close. I think redrafters who take Eli over Peyton this year will be rewarded handsomely.

 

[KellysHeroes]

In a start up Dynasty Eli is the clear choice here. I'm not sure it's really even that close. I think redrafters who take Eli over Peyton this year will be rewarded handsomely.

Peyton is till late 1st, early 2nd material... Peyton will still get u around 4000 / anywhere from 30 too 40 TDs

 

[Anarchy99]

In a start up Dynasty Eli is the clear choice here. I'm not sure it's really even that close. I think redrafters who take Eli over Peyton this year will be rewarded handsomely.

Peyton is till late 1st, early 2nd material... Peyton will still get u around 4000 / anywhere from 30 too 40 TDs

I agree overall with the Peyton comments, but he's had more than 31 TD once in the past 7 seasons.

 

[PMENFAN]

Which quarterback is better? Through their first three full regular seasons as starterseyton Manning: 26 wins, 22 losses, 12,200 yards, 85 TDs, 58 INTsEli Manning: 29 wins, 19 losses, 10,342 yards, 71 TDs, 55 INTsPlayoffs: Peyton Manning: 0 wins, 2 losses, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 0 Superbowl titles. Eli Manning: 4 wins, 2 losses, 8 TDs, 5 INTs, one Superbowl title. Peyton certainly has the better regular season statistics, and he started right away. Eli has won more games in both the regular season and postseason, threw slightly fewer INTs, and has a Superbowl win on his resume. Neither Peyton (29th, 17th, 15th in the NFL) nor Eli(14th, 24th, 17th in the NFL) have had great defenses to work with in those three years. Peyton had Marvin Harrison, Edgerrin James and Tarik Glenn, while Eli has seen a number of different starters at running back and left tackle, and the oft injured Plaxico and Toomer to throw to. I think most people assume that Peyton is better, but Eli has been much more succesful in his first three years, with less to work with. Note also that both the veteran Peyton and the younger Eli lost close games to the then undefeated Patriots in 2007, but only Eli was able to get a second chance and beat them. In Eli and Peyton's only head to head matchup so far, Eli was 20/34/247 with 2 TDs and 1 INT, while Peyton was 25/41/276 with only 1 TD and 1 INT. The Colts won that game.

Statistically the teams have been better. But, it's got little to do with Eli. Eli has been great early on most years. By game five he's in a funk that doeesn't typically lift. Even to this year. That may be where the Giants finished for the season overall, but early on they were dead last in the league, by a long shot. To come back that far, (17th), they were one of the best in the league late. IIRC, they were the best in the playoffs. Statistics aside, they put on a great performance in the playoffs. Maybe not the best statisstically, but the best effectively. Will Eli be better? I doubt it. Hard work is what makes guys like Peyton and Brady great. They improve every year. I see Eli look baffled by defenses quite often. Save for a dropped INT and a miracle catch, plus an outstanding defensive run by his team, he's be ringless as his brother was. My not still goes to Peyton, but the book is far from closed. Eli could continue to improve and equal his brother. It's a tough sell to say he'll be better. Few ever will be.

 

[bostonfred]

Still looking for votes.

 

[bostonfred]

In a start up Dynasty Eli is the clear choice here. I'm not sure it's really even that close. I think redrafters who take Eli over Peyton this year will be rewarded handsomely.

Prescient?

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

The gap is closer than ever but Peyton is still better.

I think the way Peyton led his team down the field to go ahead by 1 point at the end of the game just a couple months after getting surgery is pretty remarkable. It's not his fault the defense can't do its job.

If Cinci knew how to manage the clock at the end of regulation, they would have lost to Cinci at home against a team that going into that game, many thought were in the bottom 5 in the league.