footballaa
Footballguy
My vote is for Ocho, regardless of how good T.O. is doing.
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Who's more talented: Ochocino or T.O.? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter footballaa
- Start date
fantasizing
Footballguy
TO .....by miles
NO COMPARISON.
NO COMPARISON.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
TO's bigger, stronger and faster......and better. Always has been, always will be.
Slevin Kelevra
Footballguy
LOLOwens = H.O.F.
notdarkyet
Footballguy
TO.
I just don't think you are going to find too many who agree with you. Mark me down for TO.
Surely you can't be serious. TO does and has always done everything better then chad.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
This is absurd. Chad has been pretty good in his career but TO is one of the greatest to ever play the position.
Das Boot
Footballguy
Dude likes Chad.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Before they were on the same team, the argument would be a stretch but not unreasonable. Seeing them both on the same team there is just no comparison. Chad gets doubled a lot, it is true, but I don't think that they are sleeping on covering him. He's tougher and better. Can't compare and I love me some Ocho.
-QG
-QG
Teams are doubling the wrong guy IMHO
Touchdown Syndrome
Footballguy
hurrr durrr.Try harder.
FavreCo
Footballguy
ochosucko blows.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
TO is better. It's killing me because I've got Ocho on both of my teams and he's languishing. I know he'd have far better stats without TO there.
pantagrapher
Footballguy
Never seen anyone who can tweet like 85.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
in a PPT league.Having them play together is making the separation between the two incredibly obvious. Chad Johnson's breakdown last night had more to do with him looking like a practice squad player this year compared to Owens than it did one over thrown pass by Palmer.
They can smile and be buddy-buddy all they want, Johnson is slowly having a breakdown because his averageness is shining through for all to see in 2010.
They can smile and be buddy-buddy all they want, Johnson is slowly having a breakdown because his averageness is shining through for all to see in 2010.
Wu-banger
Footballguy
averageness..?? Let's be fair ... Chad is great WR...not better than Owens this year , or career wise., but great non the less.His production has not been there this year and with them losing it definetly causes issues because Chad wants to help the team win.Ownes success this year has a lot to do with Ocho Cinco on the other side of him as well.Last night was a great example.... Owens lined up in the slot , 85 lined up wide next to him. Owens runs a skinny post , with Ocho running a streak or fade (cant remember exactly).Splitting Troy Polamalu who has deep coverage ... Troy chooses to double Chad and leave Owens manned up in the slot post snap. Owens beats the DB for the easy touchdown on the wide open middle, that Troy vacated to cover #85.TO got the glory and TD but Chad , or the threat of Chad, had a lot to do with it.
Ocho is self destructing right now. He always thought of himself as an elite receiver. His head was so big, he pulled the infamous HOF jacket stunt. I think TO'S presence has given him A reality check that he is no longer an elite WR, and it's eating him alive. He is yelling at his QB, and now looks like A childish ###. TO accepted his role coming to the Bengals, and made the best of it.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Ocho was not happy at all last night, he does not like playing second fiddle.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Other than Buffalo, who didn't have a QB, a line, or a coach, Owens has excelled everywhere he's played. He is an all-time great. He doesn't need Chad Johnson one bit.Johnson is a good receiver and earlier in his career, was a very good receiver. But he is being shown the difference between a HOF caliber receiver and a good receiver. It's painfully obvious to him and he knows iut's obvious to the fans and media now. That's why he's having a meltdown. His ego is way to large for that reality check.
Cenobite
Footballguy
I read a S.I. article on TO a couple of years ago. The writer mentioned that all of the supposed top college WRs were having a showcase in California. I guess it was before the combine. When TO showed up the writer mentioned that it was a like a thoroughbred racing against mules. T.O. was far and away a unique physical specimen. He has not slowed down much since then. I too will take TO over 85.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
COC is also tracking to be a HOFer in his own right (provided he keeps playing and doesn't fall off the face of the earth). Through age 31, COC ranks 8th in receptions, 10th in receiving yards, and 25th in TD (but the difference between 25th and 15th is a handful of TD).
It's no question T.O. is the better player.
The real question is why does Chad and Palmer look like they've never played one down together when they've played their whole careers together? This while Palmer seems to know exactly where T.O. is going to be with nearly every pass.
My hypothesis (speculation?) is that the presence of a massive talent such as T.O. has caused changes not only in Chad's role (WR1A vs. WR1B) but also the routes he is being asked to run. After years developing a route tree together, neither Chad runs his "new" routes as well as his old ones, nor does Palmer know exactly where Chad is going to be, especially when Palmer is under pressure.
Searching here, but I don't think OchoCinco is pouting just because he is in T.O.'s shadow. He and Palmer are just not in synch and there is likely some underlying mechanical reason, IMO.
The real question is why does Chad and Palmer look like they've never played one down together when they've played their whole careers together? This while Palmer seems to know exactly where T.O. is going to be with nearly every pass.
My hypothesis (speculation?) is that the presence of a massive talent such as T.O. has caused changes not only in Chad's role (WR1A vs. WR1B) but also the routes he is being asked to run. After years developing a route tree together, neither Chad runs his "new" routes as well as his old ones, nor does Palmer know exactly where Chad is going to be, especially when Palmer is under pressure.
Searching here, but I don't think OchoCinco is pouting just because he is in T.O.'s shadow. He and Palmer are just not in synch and there is likely some underlying mechanical reason, IMO.
pantagrapher
Footballguy
His year-to-year stats remind me a lot of Tim Brown. Always around 90 catches, 1,200 yards and 8 TDs. But the recent drop-off is worrisome. He hasn't been the same these last few years.
JAA
Footballguy
TO didnt go to the combine
footballnerd
Footballguy
Lets make this interesting:
Who's a better WR? TO or Moss?
TO is 4 years older and destroying Moss this year.
Both are on new offenses, both have new QBs. Moss had two of the best QBs in the game this year.
Thoughts?
PS: Sorry for the hijack, was thinking it was clearly TO over Chad. I can take down this post if need be.
Who's a better WR? TO or Moss?
TO is 4 years older and destroying Moss this year.
Both are on new offenses, both have new QBs. Moss had two of the best QBs in the game this year.
Thoughts?
PS: Sorry for the hijack, was thinking it was clearly TO over Chad. I can take down this post if need be.
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TO is 4 years older and last game he caught up to Moss in a couple categories. Advantage Moss.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Eh, I don't see it. He isn't getting in before guys like Cris Carter (who is having a tough time getting in), Tim Brown, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt or Hines Ward, and I don't see all of those guys getting in, so Chad is not gonna be near the front of the line of guys waiting to get in.The problem with Chad is, even during his best years, he will have like four or five huge games, and then lay a donut in most of the other ones. He has almost never been a guy who you get consistent production from on a week-to-week basis.
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Moss is better at the "go deep and outrun everyone" play. Owens is better at everything else.
footballnerd
Footballguy
How about at this moment? This year?
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DoubleG
Footballguy
David Yudkin
Footballguy
With the exception of Ward, all the other guys are done. I didn't say he was getting in before the other guys, only that his career is trending as a HOF WR.The most comparible player out there is Reggie Wayne. COC has 308 more receiving yards than Wayne but Wayne has 12 more receptions and 2 more TD. Is Wayne trending to be a HOFer?Both guys could easily play for 5 years. Both could easily get to 1,000 receptions and have a decent shot at getting to 15,000 yards. Both of those would be Top 5 for now (probably Top 10 by then).Ward has been debated a lot over the years, as he has been consistently been very good but not statistically elite. Numbers wise, he is 2 years older but holds only a 900 yard advantage over COC. Granted, Ward has a lot more on his plate to offer than COC in terms of rings and hardware, and that may make a difference. Ward also is slowing down production wise, so who knows how much more statstical output will be coming down the pike.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Clearly TO has been better this year to date. I don't think anyone could claim otherwise.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
WRs, for whatever reason, have a tough time getting into the Hall. By the time Chad retires and five years pass, the way passing numbers look nowadays, his numbers won't stand out at all. Wayne is a tough call; he might be penalized for playing with Peyton, just like I suspect will Harrison, who should be a first ballot lock, but will likely have to wait a few years to get in (and Wayne isn't as great as Harrison was).
What will hurt Chad will be, despite his presence from his self-promotion, has he ever really been universally acknowledged (as much as one can be) as one of the absolute top WRs in the NFL? Probably not. For years, it was Harrison, Owens and Moss. Now, it is Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson. Chad has always been just below that top tier of WRs, sitting in the second tier, and for a WR, that doesn't bode well for their HoF chances, IMO.
What will hurt Chad will be, despite his presence from his self-promotion, has he ever really been universally acknowledged (as much as one can be) as one of the absolute top WRs in the NFL? Probably not. For years, it was Harrison, Owens and Moss. Now, it is Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson. Chad has always been just below that top tier of WRs, sitting in the second tier, and for a WR, that doesn't bode well for their HoF chances, IMO.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
If we set the bar at Top in a category . . . (2010 excluded for now).COC Top 5 in receptions (2), receiving yards (4), receiving TD (1) = 7Wayne 2 + 3 + 0 = 5Ward 2 + 1 + 3 = 6There are only so many Moss/TO/Harrison types to go around.But others include:Bruce 1 + 4 + 0 = 5Holt 4 + 4 + 0 = 8Brown 2 + 4 + 2 = 8COC is in the mix with all these guys . . .
Who is a "better receiver" this year? Well, T.O.'s got the stats, but Randy Moss's teams have a combined win total of 14 games through week 9, which is really impressive.
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