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Why do people complain about CEO compensation? (1 Viewer)

TripItUp

TripItUp

Footballguy
I don't understand it so I'll hang up and listen.

My stance has always been, if you want to be a CEO, go out and become one.  If you aren't capable of being one, that's on you, not on the CEOs.  I don't complain about Tiger Woods' compensation because I know I'm not as talented as him and the market determines his worth...same goes for Jamie Diamond, I'm not in the same stratosphere of his business/finance talent.

 
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TripItUp said:
I don't understand it so I'll hang up and listen.

My stance has always been, if you want to be a CEO, go out and become one.  If you aren't capable of being one, that's on you, not on the CEOs.  I don't complain about Tiger Woods' compensation because I know I'm not as talented as him and the market determines his worth...same goes for Jamie Diamond, I'm not in the same stratosphere of his business/finance talent.
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Because Americans today are dumb, lazy, and entitled.  

 
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People are jealous of what they don't have.  Also, people think that the table is tilted to white males and everyone doesn't have a chance at those positions.

Short and sweet but those are the two most important reasons IMO.

 
chet said:
People are jealous of what they don't have.  Also, people think that the table is tilted to white males and everyone doesn't have a chance at those positions.

Short and sweet but those are the two most important reasons IMO.
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Well, your second reason is a legitimate reason.  It won’t be in the next 10-20 years, but it has been historically, and has affected people in the workforce today.

 
chet said:
Also, people think that the table is tilted to white males and everyone doesn't have a chance at those positions.
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This question isn't for Chet, but why would anybody believe that? 

The last Presidential election had a black man and  Midwestern woman as the final candidates.  

The path to CEO is typically one of two 1) you are an amazing entrepreneur that doesn't require a formal education like (Zuckerberg/Gates etc.) or 2) Ivy League MBA 

I don't see any racial or gender requirements for either of those paths.

 
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I have no problem with CEO compensation.... as long as the company they're running isn't paying poverty level wages. 

In fact, I'd like to see a poverty tax implemented where a company has to pay it if the percentage of their employees living in poverty is higher than the national poverty level. When the CEO is making an ungodly amount, certainly the company can afford the tax. And the tax will help pay for the welfare their employees need because they're not compensated enough.  

 
TripItUp said:
This question isn't for Chet, but why would anybody believe that? 

The last Presidential election had a black man and  Midwestern woman as the final candidates.  

The path to CEO is typically one of two 1) you are an amazing entrepreneur that doesn't require a formal education like (Zuckerberg/Gates etc.) or 2) Ivy League MBA 

I don't see any racial or gender requirements for either of those paths.
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Requirements? No. 

Disproportionate advantages? Probably. 

 
Zow said:
Requirements? No. 

Disproportionate advantages? Probably. 
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BooHoo...Shaquille ONeal has physical advantages that I don't have.   Jeopardy James has IQ advantages I don't have.  

You don't hear me #####ing.

 
TripItUp said:
This question isn't for Chet, but why would anybody believe that? 

The last Presidential election had a black man and  Midwestern woman as the final candidates.  

The path to CEO is typically one of two 1) you are an amazing entrepreneur that doesn't require a formal education like (Zuckerberg/Gates etc.) or 2) Ivy League MBA 

I don't see any racial or gender requirements for either of those paths.
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There were 3 black CEOs in the Fortune 500 last year. 16 total since 1999. You’re either blind or ignorant if you don’t think it is a disadvantage to be a black person trying to become a CEO. 

 
Capella said:
There were 3 black CEOs in the Fortune 500 last year. 16 total since 1999. You’re either blind or ignorant if you don’t think it is a disadvantage to be a black person trying to become a CEO. 
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Are black people not allowed to apply to Harvard's MBA program or is there some restriction on them inventing the next Microsoft or Facebook?

 
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TripItUp said:
Are black people not allowed to apply to Harvard's MBA program or is there some restriction on them inventing the next Microsoft or Facebook?
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You're right.  It's a totally level playing field.  As fair as fair can get.

Mods, lock  this one up.  Trip has solved this one.

 
I also imagine the answer to your original question is the same answer as to why people get so outraged at how much professional athletes make and extend that outrage to the false equivalence of arguing that if Colin Kaep is paid X then it's an injustice that [insert important but common public service job like peace officer, military member, teacher, etc.) is paid a lot less than X. 

While it's irrational, I do think the sense of jealousy and injustice is at least understandable. I imagine we all can see it and most of us probably have felt it. Anecdotally I have many examples. When I was like 22 I worked a job where I was paid minimum wage to, amongst other things, spend an entire day cleaning up human feces. Currently, I can't help think of a buddy I have who lays tile for a living that works his butt off everyday -- and is just crushing his back and knees -- yet likely makes a median level income. Hell, personally I probably achieved arguably the pinnacle of my profession a year ago but had to snidely chuckle when i figured out my compensation and it's a small fraction of what some others even within profession (let alone some massive corporate CEO) would have made per hour. 

I entirely understand your point and I agree with it.  I've also read Nozick, Smith, etc. and philosophically am on the same page. But, I don't buy that you just don't understand it.  The irrational reaction to a CEO making millions (or, hell, that Eisner guy got like hundreds of millions just to resign) is totally understandable. 

 
The problem isn’t necessarily the amount of CEO’s wages it’s when CEOs of struggling companies get large bonuses while the minions see little to no bonuses and stagnant wages. 

Many CEOs are worth every penny while many are not and your fooling yourself if you think it’s not tilted to white males.

 
Zow said:
I entirely understand your point and I agree with it.  I've also read Nozick, Smith, etc. and philosophically am on the same page. But, I don't buy that you just don't understand it.  The irrational reaction to a CEO making millions (or, hell, that Eisner guy got like hundreds of millions just to resign) is totally understandable. 
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As long as we are agreeing that it's irrational thought...I'm on the same page.

 
TripItUp said:
BooHoo...Shaquille ONeal has physical advantages that I don't have.   Jeopardy James has IQ advantages I don't have.  

You don't hear me #####ing.
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I'm not #####ing either. I worked pretty hard most of my life and think I made near the best of my disproportionate advantages. But I'm not going to pretend like I didn't have them. 🤷‍♂️

 
Pipes said:
The problem isn’t necessarily the amount of CEO’s wages it’s when CEOs of struggling companies get large bonuses while the minions see little to no bonuses and stagnant wages. 
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If "minion" Joe wants a larger bonus, he should put his self in a position to be able to demand it.  That's what CEOs and every other strong professional does.  That's the way the market works.

 
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TripItUp said:
As long as we are agreeing that it's irrational thought...I'm on the same page.
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To clarify, it's an irrational thought to think that, on its face, a CEO making millions of dollars is some injustice because the CEO isn't worth it. Same goes for professional athletes.

It would be a rational thought, however, to think that white males have an advantage when it comes to getting the jobs. 

Finally, it would be irrational to not understand either of the above points. 

 
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Pipes said:
Many CEOs are worth every penny while many are not and your fooling yourself if you think it’s not tilted to white males.
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Every company I know (and I know hundreds) hires executives based on the capability to achieve the objectives of the role.  

There may be sexism and racism out there, but I would argue it's less prevalent for CEO hires...CEO is a bottom line job.  You perform or you don't for the most part.  Boards hire CEOs for performance, not skin color or gender.

 
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TripItUp said:
If "minion" Joe wants a larger bonus, he should put his self in a position to be able to demand it.  That's what CEOs and every other strong professional does.  That's the way the market works.
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The world needs ditch diggers too.

 
I don`t think about or care  what CEOs earn. I never think about what anyone else makes. I just try to take care of my family the best I can.

Think baseball...Miguel Cabrera makes 55K per AB  per game if he averages 4 ABs per game for 162 games...actually it is more because he is always hurt.  Why?  Because the Tigers were willing to pay him that. I can`t hit a 95MPH fastball...well Miggy can`t either anymore but you get what I am saying.

 
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TripItUp said:
Every company I know (and I know hundreds) hires executives based on the capability to achieve the objectives of the role.  

There may be sexism and racism out there, but I would argue it's less important for CEOs...CEO is a bottom line job.  You perform or you don't for the most part.  Boards hire CEOs for performance, not skin color or gender.
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Then how do you explain the disproportionately lower number/percentage of women and/or black CEOs?

 
TripItUp said:
Every company I know (and I know hundreds) hires Executives based on the capability to achieve the objectives of the role.  

There may be sexism and racism out there, but I would argue it's less important for CEOs...CEO is a bottom line job.  You perform or you don't for the most part.  Boards hire CEOs for performance, not skin color or gender.
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CEOs aren’t always the best candidates/employees of the company.  Oftentimes it’s family members or who best juggles the politics of the board members while performing adequately.  Plenty of CEOs are yes men that are financially successful enough to get by.  

 
I think people can't picture what they would do with a CEO salary. The multiplier has gotten so large that it is hard for Middle Class America to justify it.

As far as pro athletes salary,sure they get paid a ton but they don't also tell the beer vendor he's hurting the franchise bottom line.

 
TripItUp said:
Every company I know (and I know hundreds) hires executives based on the capability to achieve the objectives of the role.  

There may be sexism and racism out there, but I would argue it's less prevalent for CEO hires...CEO is a bottom line job.  You perform or you don't for the most part.  Boards hire CEOs for performance, not skin color or gender.
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I know hundreds too.  My experience on this topic is vastly different than yours.

 
Zow said:
Then how do you explain the disproportionately lower number/percentage of women and/or black CEOs?
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There are two typical paths to Fortune 1000 CEO

1) IVY league MBA

2) Entrepreneur Outliers (Zuckerberg/Gates etc.)

Regarding MBA candidates, my best guess is that most sought after MBA graduates are white...companies are merely choosing from the pool made available to them.  (Male vs. Female is another discussion)

Regarding Entrepreneur outliers...not quite sure, but my guess is that you might be able to identify similarities between Zuckerberg, Buffet, Gates, Bezos etc.  Very high IQ, stable/nurturing families, at least upper middle class etc. etc.

 
Pipes said:
CEOs aren’t always the best candidates/employees of the company.  Oftentimes it’s family members or who best juggles the politics of the board members while performing adequately.  Plenty of CEOs are yes men that are financially successful enough to get by.  
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Not at the Fortune 1000 level in my experience.  Perhaps at smaller companies.

 
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TripItUp said:
There are two typical paths to Fortune 1000 CEO

1) IVY league MBA

2) Entrepreneur Outliers (Zuckerberg/Gates etc.)

Regarding MBA candidates, my best guess is that most sought after MBA graduates are white...companies are merely choosing from the pool made available to them.  (Male vs. Female is another discussion)

Regarding Entrepreneur outliers...not quite sure, but my guess is that you might be able to identify similarities between Zuckerberg, Buffet, Gates, Bezos etc.  Very high IQ, stable/nurturing families, at least upper middle class etc. etc.
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Right -- people who had disproportionate advantages when growing up. 

 
It’s all relative. No problem with a CEO making huge bank if the company and shareholders are handsomely rewarded from his/her performance. It’s the CEO’s making huge bank driving companies into the ground. Think Immelt/GE. 

 
Judge Smails said:
It’s all relative. No problem with a CEO making huge bank if the company and shareholders are handsomely rewarded from his/her performance. It’s the CEO’s making huge bank driving companies into the ground. Think Immelt/GE. 
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that's legit...sometimes they make bad hires and there are repercussions like most other business professions.

 
I have no issues if the company is making money and the employees are well compensated. It’s hard for me to  meld my Christian values with the idea of a CEO making $20 million a year while he employees workers at poverty levels or is closing stores because the company is failing. Jesus was pretty clear on wealth and greed.

 
TripItUp said:
Are black people not allowed to apply to Harvard's MBA program or is there some restriction on them inventing the next Microsoft or Facebook?
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For a long time black people were denied loans for college that whites with the same financial situations were approved. It's since been fixed, but the negative consequences of it having occurred will exist for a long time to come. 

 
I would feel morally wrong earning millions and millions of dollars while having employees making lower than a living wage.

 
Politician Spock said:
For a long time black people were denied loans for college that whites with the same financial situations were approved. It's since been fixed, but the negative consequences of it having occurred will exist for a long time to come. 
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Sure, so now it's okay to complain about CEO compensation?   What did CEO guy do to black guy that was denied loans?

 
PS — successful white male checking in.  I’d love to be able to put all the credit of my successes on my brilliance and amazing work ethic.  The reality is, as a white guy who grew up in a middle class household, I had boatloads of advantages over lots of other folks.  And a black kid from the ghetto, for a variety of reasons, some complicated and some not, were never on a level playing field with me.  Hell, a black kid from the middle class wasn’t on a level playing field with me.

That said, things have changed.  In the current workforce, diverse candidates are unicorns.  It’s a huge emphasis.  We push harder to recruit them.  We push harder to advance them. Our clients demand it and the business demands it.  Sitting here today, and I’ve seen this in managing in a corporate environment, when comparing an equally talented back woman and white man, the black woman will get a huge leg up.  And if she’s not given all the opportunities she wants, she can move on to the next place and get those opportunities.  I’m not complaining about that—I think it’s the right thing to do.  It’s the right thing to do to correct for centuries of history.  But my point is that I think in 10 or 20 or 30 years, this won’t be an issue anymore.   

And BTW, I’m a guy who 10 years ago thought all this diversity stuff was BS.  I’ve learned. 

 
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TripItUp said:
Sure, so now it's okay to complain about CEO compensation?   What did CEO guy do to black guy that was denied loans?
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To be honest I'm not sure how this tangent about race even started in this thread. If someone believes a CEO makes too much, is it because of the CEO's race? Really?

 
TripItUp said:
that's not "all the answers"...and his response doesn't justify the #####ing about CEO compensation
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You can't be this obtuse. 

Heck, use the FFA as an example. This board is filled with people all doing well. Just evidenced by the fact it's a messageboard it means people at least have money and access to the internet and some semblance of free time. In other words, none of us are working in sweatshops. I'd even venture a guess that the median or mean income of the FFA is a standard deviation above the national media or average. Yet, people still give Chet a bunch of #### for being substantially more wealthy and rip on Otis for his yard expenditures while obviously just being jealous that they also can buy a ten thousand dollar bird feeder. Dan Arielly would call this predictably irrational. I'd say it's natural and understandable. 

 
Otis said:
PS — successful white male checking in.  I’d love to be able to put all the credit of my successes on my brilliance and amazing work ethic.  The reality is, as a white guy who grew up in a middle class household, I had boatloads of advantages over lots of other folks.  And a black kid from the ghetto, for a variety of reasons, some complicated and some not, were never on a level playing field with me.  Hell, a black kid from the middle class wasn’t on a level playing field with me.

That said, things have changed.  In the current workforce, diverse candidates are unicorns.  It’s a huge emphasis.  We push harder to recruit them.  We push harder to advance them. Our clients demand it and the business demands it.  Sitting here today, and I’ve seen this in managing in a corporate environment, when comparing an equally talented back woman and white man, the black woman will get a huge leg up.  And if she’s not given all the opportunities she wants, she can move on to the next place and get those opportunities.  I’m not complaining about that—I think it’s the right thing to do.  It’s the right thing to do to correct for centuries of history.  But my point is that I think in 10 or 20 or 30 years, this won’t be an issue anymore.   
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100% agree. Great post Oats. Diversity on executive teams and in the board room isn’t pure tokenism anymore. 

 
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