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Why does Sjax keep getting the love? (1 Viewer)

sholditch

Footballguy
In five season he has only played 16 games once.

For the past two seasons he has not topped 1200 yards rushing

For the past two seasons has averaged 7 total TDs

For the past two seasons he has not cracked the top 10 in rushing yards

Only one top ten placement in receiving yards (10th) in the past two seasons

He is on one of the worst teams in football, he has no QB, no o-line, and a terrible defense

Why is this guy still considered a 1st/2nd round pick? He had 1 incredible season three years ago, and people (myself included) have gone broke betting first round picks on a repeat ever since. Plus his one incredible season came when the line, coaching, and QB were a helluva lot better.

:banned:

 
Because when he's been healthy, he's been a top three guy on a ppg basis...and that's with such a horrible team. Pure and simple, he's an absolute stud. STUD.

If he stays healthy this year I have him ranked as my #2 rb behind ADP...and if/when he misses time, I'll just hope it's not during the playoffs and I'll plug in someone else.

I also think the o-line will be healthy this year and improved from last. I really think he's a monster and his ADP is acutally LOWER than it should be. It's not often a guy in the top ten is a value pick, yet here he is.

 
I'd say he gets the love based on PPG and those that have watched him play. The man runs HARD, he catches well, he's just fun to watch.

 
Because he is amazing on a points pe rgame basis and the smart money is not to make a pick based on the fact that you think he will be injured.

Now, he isn't quite like Schaub in the "injury risk so down the board" area (Schaub lost games to disease and 2 cheap shots where the players where fined $25000) but his injuries arent debilitating. They are different injuries. It's not liek he has Reggie Bush knees or an ACL injury, he just got unlucky.

When he plays, he is absolutely at the top of his position with AD.

And I like how you cherry pick "1200 yards". He has topped 1000 yards each of the past 4 seasons, despite missing all those games.

I will now tell you to go prorate his seasons to a full 16 so you can see what would be his end of year stats. If you don't, I suppose later I will becaus eit should be put out there. I just figure if you look at them the realization of absolute STUD talent will hit you that much quicker and more soundly.

ETA: He has averaged 7 TDs on a team that won't get worse. Seriously. Can you see anything other than going up for that team now? Or even preserving the status quo.

 
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I've had him twice, and won the league with him as my top pick last year and I am very likely to pass on him at #5. That offense is just so anemic AND he can't stay healthy.

I did really enjoy watching him, especially in 2006, but I'm still afraid to make him the centerpiece of my team.

I am hoping that some comments in this thread make me change my mind. Will their offense improve?

 
Because he is amazing on a points pe rgame basis and the smart money is not to make a pick based on the fact that you think he will be injured. Now, he isn't quite like Schaub in the "injury risk so down the board" area (Schaub lost games to disease and 2 cheap shots where the players where fined $25000) but his injuries arent debilitating. They are different injuries. It's not liek he has Reggie Bush knees or an ACL injury, he just got unlucky.When he plays, he is absolutely at the top of his position with AD. And I like how you cherry pick "1200 yards". He has topped 1000 yards each of the past 4 seasons, despite missing all those games.I will now tell you to go prorate his seasons to a full 16 so you can see what would be his end of year stats. If you don't, I suppose later I will becaus eit should be put out there. I just figure if you look at them the realization of absolute STUD talent will hit you that much quicker and more soundly.ETA: He has averaged 7 TDs on a team that won't get worse. Seriously. Can you see anything other than going up for that team now? Or even preserving the status quo.
This is the line of thinking that kept Fred Taylor in the upper echelon for years while doing nothing but giving his owners ulcers.
 
Because he is amazing on a points pe rgame basis and the smart money is not to make a pick based on the fact that you think he will be injured. Now, he isn't quite like Schaub in the "injury risk so down the board" area (Schaub lost games to disease and 2 cheap shots where the players where fined $25000) but his injuries arent debilitating. They are different injuries. It's not liek he has Reggie Bush knees or an ACL injury, he just got unlucky.When he plays, he is absolutely at the top of his position with AD. And I like how you cherry pick "1200 yards". He has topped 1000 yards each of the past 4 seasons, despite missing all those games.I will now tell you to go prorate his seasons to a full 16 so you can see what would be his end of year stats. If you don't, I suppose later I will becaus eit should be put out there. I just figure if you look at them the realization of absolute STUD talent will hit you that much quicker and more soundly.ETA: He has averaged 7 TDs on a team that won't get worse. Seriously. Can you see anything other than going up for that team now? Or even preserving the status quo.
This is the line of thinking that kept Fred Taylor in the upper echelon for years while doing nothing but giving his owners ulcers.
Starting in the 5th year of his career Fred Taylor had top caliber fantasy seasons in 5/7 years. So 2 years are what we have where he didn't contribute enough to be worth a lot. 2005: Injured, out 5 games2008: MJD comes along, he plays less, and only tops 20 carries one game all seasonSo: If you want to bring up Fred Taylor, then his statistical trajectory projects Steven Jackson to finish with 1500-1600 total yards and 14-16 TDs.Please look into your comparison to make sure it actually supports what you say it does before using it as evidence.
 
Completely agree. He and Forte are the most overrated players in Round 1 this year.
This.As to Jackson, though, he's like a WR. His PPG is so high because he has a couple of totally explosive games every season surrounded by a ton of mediocre games. I like my RBs to be more consistant.
 
I don't understand why people are so skeptical of him. He's a top 5 talent. He gets fed the ball a ton. He gets a lot of "garbage" PPRs, VERY much like Dom Davis did on a crappy Texans team. Yeah, he's been banged up, but any RB can get hurt, and an RB that scores 250 in 12 games is way more valuable than one that scores 250 in 16 games.

 
Because he is amazing on a points pe rgame basis and the smart money is not to make a pick based on the fact that you think he will be injured. Now, he isn't quite like Schaub in the "injury risk so down the board" area (Schaub lost games to disease and 2 cheap shots where the players where fined $25000) but his injuries arent debilitating. They are different injuries. It's not liek he has Reggie Bush knees or an ACL injury, he just got unlucky.When he plays, he is absolutely at the top of his position with AD. And I like how you cherry pick "1200 yards". He has topped 1000 yards each of the past 4 seasons, despite missing all those games.I will now tell you to go prorate his seasons to a full 16 so you can see what would be his end of year stats. If you don't, I suppose later I will becaus eit should be put out there. I just figure if you look at them the realization of absolute STUD talent will hit you that much quicker and more soundly.ETA: He has averaged 7 TDs on a team that won't get worse. Seriously. Can you see anything other than going up for that team now? Or even preserving the status quo.
This is the line of thinking that kept Fred Taylor in the upper echelon for years while doing nothing but giving his owners ulcers.
Starting in the 5th year of his career Fred Taylor had top caliber fantasy seasons in 5/7 years. So 2 years are what we have where he didn't contribute enough to be worth a lot. 2005: Injured, out 5 games2008: MJD comes along, he plays less, and only tops 20 carries one game all seasonSo: If you want to bring up Fred Taylor, then his statistical trajectory projects Steven Jackson to finish with 1500-1600 total yards and 14-16 TDs.Please look into your comparison to make sure it actually supports what you say it does before using it as evidence.
Owned.(I think comparing him to a future HOF'er should make his draft stock rise, but then again I could be ignorant.)
 
I've had him twice, and won the league with him as my top pick last year and I am very likely to pass on him at #5. That offense is just so anemic AND he can't stay healthy. I did really enjoy watching him, especially in 2006, but I'm still afraid to make him the centerpiece of my team. I am hoping that some comments in this thread make me change my mind. Will their offense improve?
Who cares if their offense improves? He was a top 5 rb last year with that pathetic offense on a ppg basis. It wasn't the lousy offense that held him back from being an absolute stud...it was just injuries. That's all there is to be afraid of this year. I really have a hard time seeing that offense getting worse. Seriously people - this man's FLOOR appears to be top 5...
 
Positives: He has talent, he has opportunity (no one is going to steal carries), he can catch (and they have few others who can), expected better blocking (added Brown, Smith, Karney), he will be featured on offense, will play hurt if need be, he can be picked up in the middle or late first round, high PPG, Upside is top 3 RB.

Negatives: Injury concerns, Downside he misses 4 games and ends up RB10-15, poor offense and D's will be focused on him.

By my reckoning the positives outweigh the negatives and for the upside he is cheap. I have picked him up at 9 this year and already hold him in a number of dynasty leagues.

 
id say one of the very true work horse backs with no threat to his job, in the prime of his career who averages elite points when he plays on an improving team merits where hes being selected.

 
Because he is amazing on a points pe rgame basis and the smart money is not to make a pick based on the fact that you think he will be injured. Now, he isn't quite like Schaub in the "injury risk so down the board" area (Schaub lost games to disease and 2 cheap shots where the players where fined $25000) but his injuries arent debilitating. They are different injuries. It's not liek he has Reggie Bush knees or an ACL injury, he just got unlucky.When he plays, he is absolutely at the top of his position with AD. And I like how you cherry pick "1200 yards". He has topped 1000 yards each of the past 4 seasons, despite missing all those games.I will now tell you to go prorate his seasons to a full 16 so you can see what would be his end of year stats. If you don't, I suppose later I will becaus eit should be put out there. I just figure if you look at them the realization of absolute STUD talent will hit you that much quicker and more soundly.ETA: He has averaged 7 TDs on a team that won't get worse. Seriously. Can you see anything other than going up for that team now? Or even preserving the status quo.
This is the line of thinking that kept Fred Taylor in the upper echelon for years while doing nothing but giving his owners ulcers.
Starting in the 5th year of his career Fred Taylor had top caliber fantasy seasons in 5/7 years. So 2 years are what we have where he didn't contribute enough to be worth a lot. 2005: Injured, out 5 games2008: MJD comes along, he plays less, and only tops 20 carries one game all seasonSo: If you want to bring up Fred Taylor, then his statistical trajectory projects Steven Jackson to finish with 1500-1600 total yards and 14-16 TDs.Please look into your comparison to make sure it actually supports what you say it does before using it as evidence.
Through the first five years:TaylorGS- 52/80 ATT 1032 YDS 4784 YPC 4.6 TD 40SJAXGS- 57/80 ATT 1224 YDS 5291 YPC 4.3 TD 37both have/had all the potential in the world if they could stay on the field. wtf is not comparable?
 
#1 reason...Receiving production - Despite missing 4 games last year, Jackson finished with more receiving yards than Peterson, Turner, and Deangelo COMBINED. The Rams don't have much talent at WR, so Jackson should again be a big part of their passing game. Jackson averaged 9.5 yards per catch last season, the highest of all running backs with at least 30 receptions.

With that added receiving production, Jackson is about as likely as anyone to lead the league in total yards. He averaged a LEAGUE HIGH 118 yards per game last year (including that ARZ game). Jackson averages a league-best 126 yards per game over the last three years.

Receiving production makes him stand out among the star running backs, but he's still a terrific runner. 3 years in a row he's averaged at least 84 rushing yards per game. He's also scored 30 TDS in his last 40 games, 6th best among RB over the last 3 years.

Hes averaged 25 touches per game over the last three years. With a rebuilt oline in front of him, the new OC coming over from the Eagles installing a West Coast offense (more catches?!) and that massive statistical upside, he looks like a gamble worth taking.

AGREE OR DISAGREE?

 
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Here's the full list of players in the last ten years that have scored 300+ FF Pts (PPR) and averaged over 22 PPG doing it:

Ahman Green

Brian Westbrook

Clinton Portis

Edgerrin James

LaDainian Tomlinson

Larry Johnson

Marshall Faulk

Priest Holmes

Ricky Williams

Shaun Alexander

Steven Jackson

Tiki Barber

What's not to love about a guy on this list who just turned 26?

 
In five season he has only played 16 games once.

For the past two seasons he has not topped 1200 yards rushing

For the past two seasons has averaged 7 total TDs

For the past two seasons he has not cracked the top 10 in rushing yards

Only one top ten placement in receiving yards (10th) in the past two seasons

He is on one of the worst teams in football, he has no QB, no o-line, and a terrible defense

Why is this guy still considered a 1st/2nd round pick? He had 1 incredible season three years ago, and people (myself included) have gone broke betting first round picks on a repeat ever since. Plus his one incredible season came when the line, coaching, and QB were a helluva lot better.

:confused:
I agree 100%I guess people view it as him being one of a small handfull of guys not involved in RBBC, and that makes him worth more than most..I understand that angle of the discussion, but the fact remains the guy cannot and has not stayed healthy...he has had one good year during his NFL career...he's nothing more than a 1000 yard, 38 reception, 6 TD RB..in other words, Jamal Lewis v2.0

the Rams still have not addresses their glaring needs on defense to the point of turning things around, the O-line is remade and will take time to become a cohesive unit, they have an old QB in Marc Bulger who is `thisclose` to being knocked out of yet another game, they lack a quality backup QB, and they're going with a new,first time HC and first time OC. Maybe Avery is a decent WR, but the talent at WR is lacking..and if the defense doesn't improve, neither will offensive time of possession..

I doubt St Louis wins more than 3-4 games in 2009...

:tfp:

and Spags is talking about giving SJax even MORE carries and MORE work? the guy couldn't handle what was given to him in previous seasons! :rolleyes:

it's funny how people would be quick to point Brandon Jacobs' shortcomings ( i.e., injuries) yet the guy is a stud on the field, and he scores TD's by the truckload..I'm not sure that SJax is any better than Jacobs, and you can draft Jacobs in 2nd/3rd round..and Jacobs plays with a better team, better O-line, without Ward which should mean more work for Jacobs..

 
Completely agree. He and Forte are the most overrated players in Round 1 this year.
This.As to Jackson, though, he's like a WR. His PPG is so high because he has a couple of totally explosive games every season surrounded by a ton of mediocre games. I like my RBs to be more consistant.
:pics: SJax is the Ocho Cinco of RBs.
He only scored < 10 pts once last year in my league (ignoring the 4 games missed due to injury). Going 10-27-12-37 is a lot different to me than 7-7-28-9 (Ocho in '07).
 
He is on one of the worst teams in football, he has no QB, no o-line
Why do people keep saying this? The Rams used the #2 pick on an Olineman and signed one of the best free agents availible, why would we assume that this year will be as putrid as last?
 
Because he is amazing on a points pe rgame basis and the smart money is not to make a pick based on the fact that you think he will be injured.
That pretty much sums it up.Also he has been amazing in some terrible, terrible offenses. If the Rams O gets just a little better, Sjax could be back at 06 levels.
 
Choke said:
sholditch said:
wow, with as many people talking about taking him high, thought there would be more defenders
bro... u just made this post 14 minutes ago. and there have been plenty of SJax discussions in a multitude of threads.
:yes: Why are you yelling? You're a foot from me.
Seriously, I don't get these attention-whorish threads. I hate Dwayne Bowe's ADP this year. Since I know he's not going to be on my team I just don't worry about it.

If you hate SJax's ADP then say that in the spotlight thread and move on.

 
pnewtonjr said:
Completely agree. He and Forte are the most overrated players in Round 1 this year.
This.As to Jackson, though, he's like a WR. His PPG is so high because he has a couple of totally explosive games every season surrounded by a ton of mediocre games. I like my RBs to be more consistant.
VERY :kicksrock: He scored 5 of his 7 rushing TDs in 2 games last year, with one of the 2 multiple TD games occurring in week 17 (worthless from most fantasy owner's perspectives) had only 1 receiving score, and left his fantasy owners with goose-eggs in the TD column 11 of 16 games last year (4 of them with absolute goose-eggs due to yet another series of nagging injuries). The surrounding cast in St. Louis is worse this year than last with the departure of Tory Holt, and nobody fears the QB tandem of Marc Bulger/Kyle Boller at all.Yes, Jackson is capable of making exciting big plays from time to time, but he is a marked man this year. He has a huge bulls-eye on his jersey due to being the sole game-breaking weapon that the Rams field. He'll face stacked fronts all year long unless (and I'm doubtful Bulger can do this) Bulger presents a credible threat to pass the ball with his youngster/journeyman WR corps.

 
He is on one of the worst teams in football, he has no QB, no o-line
Why do people keep saying this? The Rams used the #2 pick on an Olineman and signed one of the best free agents availible, why would we assume that this year will be as putrid as last?
Rookie OL outright bust, or fail to perform as touted, as often as they pan out - Robert Gallery anyone? Plus, the line is in flux with the departure of O. Pace - team chemistry on the OL is important and the current group hasn't played together long enough to develop into a top (or even mid-) tier unit. It takes many reps to form an OL into a well-oiled machine.The Rams' OL could be better this year, but it is equally likely that it remains as putrid this year as last (45 sacks allowed in '08, little ability to open holes in the red zone) - it could even get worse.

 
In the 11 full games Jackson played last year, he went over 100 yards combined in 8 of them (and 2 of the ones he didn't were early in the season when the offense as a whole was completely in the toilet).

In games the Rams either won or lost by only single digits last year (7 games), Jackson averaged 143 yards combined in them (he played in 6 of them), scoring 6 TDs in those games.

He has had problems with injuries, yes, but they are impossible to predict.

While the Rams stunk last year, they should be improved a bit this year, and you never know which teams will be vastly improved, but even on a horrible team last year, Jackson still put up very good numbers (averaged 128 combined yards per game), and with an offensive line many have called horrible.

If you are pretty sure the Rams will be awful again to the point where they get blown out in over half of their games, then avoid Jackson, but if not, he is worth the risk.

 
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pnewtonjr said:
Completely agree. He and Forte are the most overrated players in Round 1 this year.
This.As to Jackson, though, he's like a WR. His PPG is so high because he has a couple of totally explosive games every season surrounded by a ton of mediocre games. I like my RBs to be more consistant.
VERY :confused: He scored 5 of his 7 rushing TDs in 2 games last year, with one of the 2 multiple TD games occurring in week 17 (worthless from most fantasy owner's perspectives) had only 1 receiving score, and left his fantasy owners with goose-eggs in the TD column 11 of 16 games last year (4 of them with absolute goose-eggs due to yet another series of nagging injuries). The surrounding cast in St. Louis is worse this year than last with the departure of Tory Holt, and nobody fears the QB tandem of Marc Bulger/Kyle Boller at all.Yes, Jackson is capable of making exciting big plays from time to time, but he is a marked man this year. He has a huge bulls-eye on his jersey due to being the sole game-breaking weapon that the Rams field. He'll face stacked fronts all year long unless (and I'm doubtful Bulger can do this) Bulger presents a credible threat to pass the ball with his youngster/journeyman WR corps.
His receiving stats (as Raven pointed out) helped make him one of the more consistent backs in my league last season...when healthy.ETA: In weeks 1 and 2, he had 74 and 90 yards total. He never scored less than 11 points after that. 11 is obviously not what I want from my first pick, but other backs had these games < 10 pts:

MJD - 7

Portis - 5

Jones - 5

Deangelo - 4

AP - 4

 
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Just to throw a few names out there that are drafted around SJax....

Points per game last 2 years:

(NON PPR)

LT: 17.4

Peterson:17.3

Westbrook: 17.9

MJD: 13.0

SJax: 15.5

and some guys later on....

Ronnie Brown: 14.3

Lynch: 13.6

Addai: 13.7

Gore: 13.6

 
IMO, 2006 was a career year and while there's a chance he could approach that level again, we should look at the last two years as a more representative baseline. Those years were the years when the Rams had already faded offensively.

Jackson averaged 112 yfs the past 2 years and 0.58 TD per game. Over a full season, that would project to 1792 yards, 9 TD, and 233 fantasy points.

That's what I would use as a frame of reference. If people think he will miss some time, deduct 14.5 fantasy points for each game missed.

Projected at 16 games played, he should rank in the Top 5-10 range, but I would be hesitent to rank him much higher as I don't see him getting the TD that he did in 2006 (16 TD).

Certainly those thinking the Rams offense is due to rebound will project him higher, but I still think his average over the past two seasons is pretty close to what he'll do this year.

 
not to hijack, but looking at Westbrook's pt/g....it's hard not to get excited. If he's healthy and you can get him in the 2nd round....wow.

 
Because he is amazing on a points pe rgame basis and the smart money is not to make a pick based on the fact that you think he will be injured.

Now, he isn't quite like Schaub in the "injury risk so down the board" area (Schaub lost games to disease and 2 cheap shots where the players where fined $25000) but his injuries arent debilitating. They are different injuries. It's not liek he has Reggie Bush knees or an ACL injury, he just got unlucky.

When he plays, he is absolutely at the top of his position with AD.

And I like how you cherry pick "1200 yards". He has topped 1000 yards each of the past 4 seasons, despite missing all those games.

I will now tell you to go prorate his seasons to a full 16 so you can see what would be his end of year stats. If you don't, I suppose later I will becaus eit should be put out there. I just figure if you look at them the realization of absolute STUD talent will hit you that much quicker and more soundly.

ETA: He has averaged 7 TDs on a team that won't get worse. Seriously. Can you see anything other than going up for that team now? Or even preserving the status quo.
I agree with your assesment with everything except the bolded part. If a RB gets an ACL tear it can be considered bad luck. Chronic Quad/hamstring/achilles/groin problems have been holding SJax back. These injuries a. tend to more of a problem long term and b. are more preventable than ACL tears. All these hamstring strains you hear in camp, I would bet 75% of them could be prevented if the players stay in shape during the off-season, warm up properly and stretch properly before all activities.

With tha being said...

SJax HAS missed 4 games in the last two years. He is the Boldin of RBs. If he stays healthy he has the potential to be top 3 at his position. It's why Boldin remains picked below the "freak" class of WRs.

As some people would remember, I was a top contributor against taking S. Jackson in the 1st round at all last year. He was reported to have muscle problems before camp started, and also held out because of a contract dispute. This year reports say he is healthy and in camp on time. The O-line is improved and bulger is healthy.

I have no problems taking SJax at 1.05 this season.

 
Rookie OL outright bust, or fail to perform as touted, as often as they pan out - Robert Gallery anyone?

The past few years highly touted/draft pick lineman rarely bust.

2008: Jake Long(stud), Ryan Clady(one of the best LT's last year), Chris Williams(injured, but starting this season), Brandon Albert(started), Gosder Cherilius(started), Jeff Otah(stud), Sam Baker(solid last year).

2007: Joe Thomas(stud), Levi Brown(solid), Joe Staley(solid), Ben Grubbs(stud)

2006:D'Brickashaw Ferguson(solid), Davin Joseph(solid), Nick Mangold(solid) both Jets lineman paved the way for that great running attack last year.

2005: Jamaal Brown(made the pro bowl), Alex Barron(has been soft), Chris Spencer, Logan Mankins.

2004: Robert Gallery(has been moved inside), Shawn Andrews(injured, but a solid when healthy), Vernon Carey(stud).

Where are all these lineman that bust?

 
not to hijack, but looking at Westbrook's pt/g....it's hard not to get excited. If he's healthy and you can get him in the 2nd round....wow.
He's coming off injury, and they just drafted an explosive rookie.
I'm well aware of his microfx surgery, and the fact they took McCoy. I still think he's worth a shot in the 2nd rd because of his upside.Edit to add...no rookie is as explosive as Westbrook when healthy. He IS the Eagles
 
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He is on one of the worst teams in football, he has no QB, no o-line
Why do people keep saying this? The Rams used the #2 pick on an Olineman and signed one of the best free agents availible, why would we assume that this year will be as putrid as last?
Rookie OL outright bust, or fail to perform as touted, as often as they pan out - Robert Gallery anyone? Plus, the line is in flux with the departure of O. Pace - team chemistry on the OL is important and the current group hasn't played together long enough to develop into a top (or even mid-) tier unit. It takes many reps to form an OL into a well-oiled machine.The Rams' OL could be better this year, but it is equally likely that it remains as putrid this year as last (45 sacks allowed in '08, little ability to open holes in the red zone) - it could even get worse.
He averaged 4.1 yards per carry last season. This line gave up 40+ sacks, incurred injuries from its starters all season and was considered one of the worst in the league. If the line is even marginally better, which many believe it is... his ypc will be in the high 4's and post a great year.
 
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Because he is amazing on a points pe rgame basis and the smart money is not to make a pick based on the fact that you think he will be injured.

Now, he isn't quite like Schaub in the "injury risk so down the board" area (Schaub lost games to disease and 2 cheap shots where the players where fined $25000) but his injuries arent debilitating. They are different injuries. It's not liek he has Reggie Bush knees or an ACL injury, he just got unlucky.

When he plays, he is absolutely at the top of his position with AD.

And I like how you cherry pick "1200 yards". He has topped 1000 yards each of the past 4 seasons, despite missing all those games.

I will now tell you to go prorate his seasons to a full 16 so you can see what would be his end of year stats. If you don't, I suppose later I will becaus eit should be put out there. I just figure if you look at them the realization of absolute STUD talent will hit you that much quicker and more soundly.

ETA: He has averaged 7 TDs on a team that won't get worse. Seriously. Can you see anything other than going up for that team now? Or even preserving the status quo.
I agree with your assesment with everything except the bolded part. If a RB gets an ACL tear it can be considered bad luck. Chronic Quad/hamstring/achilles/groin problems have been holding SJax back. These injuries a. tend to more of a problem long term and b. are more preventable than ACL tears. All these hamstring strains you hear in camp, I would bet 75% of them could be prevented if the players stay in shape during the off-season, warm up properly and stretch properly before all activities.

With tha being said...

SJax HAS missed 4 games in the last two years. He is the Boldin of RBs. If he stays healthy he has the potential to be top 3 at his position. It's why Boldin remains picked below the "freak" class of WRs.

As some people would remember, I was a top contributor against taking S. Jackson in the 1st round at all last year. He was reported to have muscle problems before camp started, and also held out because of a contract dispute. This year reports say he is healthy and in camp on time. The O-line is improved and bulger is healthy.

I have no problems taking SJax at 1.05 this season.
How about @ 1.03? with ADP and MJD going b4 him in a PPR league?
 
How about @ 1.03? with ADP and MJD going b4 him in a PPR league?
Possibly, but I would take Turner as the safe pick. Forte/LT/SJax are very close all carrying risks. It's tough to choose for me at 4, that's why I say 1.05.
 
How about @ 1.03? with ADP and MJD going b4 him in a PPR league?
Possibly, but I would take Turner as the safe pick. Forte/LT/SJax are very close all carrying risks. It's tough to choose for me at 4, that's why I say 1.05.
You would take Turner over Sjax in a PPR league???????? You know Turner doesn't catch the ball right? So his value relies on his TD production. You really think he can crack 15+ TD again? The safer pick is SJax, not Turner IMO.
 
How about @ 1.03? with ADP and MJD going b4 him in a PPR league?
Possibly, but I would take Turner as the safe pick. Forte/LT/SJax are very close all carrying risks. It's tough to choose for me at 4, that's why I say 1.05.
You would take Turner over Sjax in a PPR league???????? You know Turner doesn't catch the ball right? So his value relies on his TD production. You really think he can crack 15+ TD again? The safer pick is SJax, not Turner IMO.
does not compute....
 
How about @ 1.03? with ADP and MJD going b4 him in a PPR league?
Possibly, but I would take Turner as the safe pick. Forte/LT/SJax are very close all carrying risks. It's tough to choose for me at 4, that's why I say 1.05.
You would take Turner over Sjax in a PPR league???????? You know Turner doesn't catch the ball right? So his value relies on his TD production. You really think he can crack 15+ TD again? The safer pick is SJax, not Turner IMO.
does not compute....
Assuming turner has the same exact stats from the season before.The OC has stated he wants less carries from turner, they have gonzo...so more passing plays, a more exp QB...so more passing plays as they are more comfortable with him.

 
The past few years highly touted/draft pick lineman rarely bust.

2008: Jake Long(stud), Ryan Clady(one of the best LT's last year), Chris Williams(injured, but starting this season), Brandon Albert(started), Gosder Cherilius(started), Jeff Otah(stud), Sam Baker(solid last year).

2007: Joe Thomas(stud), Levi Brown(solid), Joe Staley(solid), Ben Grubbs(stud)

2006:D'Brickashaw Ferguson(solid), Davin Joseph(solid), Nick Mangold(solid) both Jets lineman paved the way for that great running attack last year.

2005: Jamaal Brown(made the pro bowl), Alex Barron(has been soft), Chris Spencer, Logan Mankins.

2004: Robert Gallery(has been moved inside), Shawn Andrews(injured, but a solid when healthy), Vernon Carey(stud).

Where are all these lineman that bust?
See bolded names above - I think Cherilius was a major disappointment but started because of what they paid him. Injuries also are a factor.My point is that you can't just assume because the Rams drafted an OL with a high pick that this automatically upgrades their line. I haven't seen the team chemistry yet, and neither has anybody else

 
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pnewtonjr said:
Completely agree. He and Forte are the most overrated players in Round 1 this year.
This.As to Jackson, though, he's like a WR. His PPG is so high because he has a couple of totally explosive games every season surrounded by a ton of mediocre games. I like my RBs to be more consistant.
VERY :popcorn: He scored 5 of his 7 rushing TDs in 2 games last year, with one of the 2 multiple TD games occurring in week 17 (worthless from most fantasy owner's perspectives) had only 1 receiving score, and left his fantasy owners with goose-eggs in the TD column 11 of 16 games last year (4 of them with absolute goose-eggs due to yet another series of nagging injuries). The surrounding cast in St. Louis is worse this year than last with the departure of Tory Holt, and nobody fears the QB tandem of Marc Bulger/Kyle Boller at all.Yes, Jackson is capable of making exciting big plays from time to time, but he is a marked man this year. He has a huge bulls-eye on his jersey due to being the sole game-breaking weapon that the Rams field. He'll face stacked fronts all year long unless (and I'm doubtful Bulger can do this) Bulger presents a credible threat to pass the ball with his youngster/journeyman WR corps.
Jackson had 100+ yards from scrimmage in 8 out of 11 full games last year. He had 90 yards in another. That is about as consistent as you get. TOP THREE ppg. Who did he outperform, on average, when he played?

EVERYBODY except Turner and Deangelo Williams. EVERYBODY. Peterson? Outperformed him. Gore? Slaton? LT? Westbrook? Forte? Portis? MJD? Outperformed ALL of them.

On a terrible team with not passing game and an O-line that was terrible DUE IN LARGE PART TO INJURIES.

What has changed this year? Holt was most certainly not a difference maker last year, and the passing game is not likely to be worse. Pace is gone, that is not good.... but those rookie O-linemen that bust 1/2 the time? They also DON"T bust 1/2 the time. Oh yeah, then there is the acquisition of Jason Brown, a HUGE upgrade at center. Then there is the statistical fact that teams that are snake-bitten by injuries (the Rams had something like 50% MORE starter games missed due to injury than the league average) tend to regress to the mean... so it's more likely that the Rams have fewer injuries than last year. The defense is going to improve with fewer injuries and the addition of a few good players that will allow existing talented players to play their natural positions instead of playing out of position.

They gained more in free agency than they lost in Pace and Holt. They have some good rookie prospects. This all points to an improved team, not a worse team. I'm not saying they are playoff bound, just that they are certainly not WORSE.

So is Jackson able to match last year's stats on a team that gets better, even if it is only a little better? OF COURSE.

With Jackson you get elite production when he is healthy. You DO NOT get "absolute goose-eggs" as Wimer stated when he misses games. You get whatever production your backup gets. BIG DIFFERENCE. 66 RBs had 5+ ppg. 50 had 7.35 ppg or better. You don't get zero from your backup.

I understand not wanting to draft him because you are worried about injuries. Sure, 1/2 the top 30 projected RBs are going to miss games due to injury, but Jackson has missed games two years in a row. Players get the injury prone label until they aren't injury prone, I guess. However, ALL RBs get injured, it's just a matter of when. But I understand the "logic" that other RBs are "safer" bets to stay healthy.

I understand being worried about the team being bad. But Jackson was very good last year on a terrible team. The Rams added more than they lost this offseason, so last year is roughly Jackson's floor. But I understand the theory, at least, that bad teams are less likely to produce good fantasy players.

What I don't understand is why people just don't get why other people like Jackson. YOU (the generic "you", not talking about any particular person) don't like him? Super. Other very smart people disagree with you, and the statistics back up the fact that Jackson has been very good on a very bad team. He has put up ELITE production in the absolute worst of situations.

Imagine if the Rams are 10% better.... or 20% better.... imagine if they have the league average in injuries, or *GASP* fewer than the league average... imagine that the #2 pick in the draft is *GASP* actually a good player.... imagine that the defense is better with more talent than last year and a defensive minded head coach...

Now imagine that Jackson only misses *GASP* 2 games.... he goes from very good to very VERY good. ELITE, even.

Now imagine Jackson doesn't miss any games. MONSTER.

Are all of these things going to come to pass? Not likely. What if NONE of them come to pass? Well, we get last year's production, #13 overall but #3 in ppg.

You can count the number of RBs with Jackson's ceiling on one hand.

Why is this guy still considered a 1st/2nd round pick?
SERIOUSLY????
 
The past few years highly touted/draft pick lineman rarely bust.

2008: Jake Long(stud), Ryan Clady(one of the best LT's last year), Chris Williams(injured, but starting this season), Brandon Albert(started), Gosder Cherilius(started), Jeff Otah(stud), Sam Baker(solid last year).

2007: Joe Thomas(stud), Levi Brown(solid), Joe Staley(solid), Ben Grubbs(stud)

2006:D'Brickashaw Ferguson(solid), Davin Joseph(solid), Nick Mangold(solid) both Jets lineman paved the way for that great running attack last year.

2005: Jamaal Brown(made the pro bowl), Alex Barron(has been soft), Chris Spencer, Logan Mankins.

2004: Robert Gallery(has been moved inside), Shawn Andrews(injured, but a solid when healthy), Vernon Carey(stud).

Where are all these lineman that bust?
See bolded names above - I think Cherilius was a major disappointment but started because of what they paid him. Injuries also are a factor.My point is that you can't just assume because the Rams drafted an OL with a high pick that this automatically upgrades their line. I haven't seen the team chemistry yet, and neither has anybody else
Just like you can't assume it will be worse despite drafting an OT at pick 2 AND signing the #1 Olineman in free agency.
 

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