Why doesn't Goodell punish franchises for circumventing (1 Viewer)

[GregR]

Count me amongst those who don't see the issue here.

As previously mentioned, Bowles was the Assistant Head Coach according to NFL.com's Miami coaching staff info. He seems the common sense choice then to succeed him so I don't get why anyone would have an issue with him being the one chosen.

If you asked Bowles, "Hey Todd, we would like to interview you for the head coaching job. We'll give you the choice of being the interim head coach and then interviewing you... or if you prefer we'll make Mike Nolan the interim head coach and still interview you. Which would you prefer?"

What do you think Bowles is going to say? If it were me, I'd take the head coaching experience and the chance to show I can run a team.

The only thing I think there is to comment about the situation is that it looks like they planned to can Sparano regardless of how the rest of the season went. Then sped that up when KC fired Haley so they wouldn't miss out on a chance to talk to their preferred candidates without having to "go behind Sparano's back" and do it while he's still the coach.

To which I'd say I don't really see a problem with doing that either. We can have a debate about if Sparano should have been fired at all, but nothing else about the situation seems to have been done in poor taste. Let alone in an attempt to circumvent the Rooney Rule.

 

[belljr]

Has it been mentioned that this does not fulfill the Rooney Rule at all? Interim hires do not need to be vetted through the Rooney Rule process. There was no circumventing.When the position will be filled next year they will still have to interview a minority member, which in this case will probably be the interim coach.I'm obviously not understanding the outrage here....

Minority coaching candidates Romeo Crennel(AP Photo) Perhaps it’s merely coincidence, but all three of the teams who have fired coaches so far have hired African-American interim coaches. Jacksonville promoted defensive coordinator Mel Tucker, Kansas City did the same with defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel and Miami put assistant head coach Todd Bowles in charge. Those who don’t trust the process might think that each of those teams was doing that so they could get a head start on fulfilling the Rooney Rule, which requires teams that are hiring from outside the organization to interview at least one minority candidate. Wooten, who advises the league on the Rooney Rule, said he believes that all three moves were simply natural appointments. “Romeo is [Kansas City general manager] Scott Pioli’s guy from New England, Todd Bowles came to the Dolphins with [Miami GM] Jeff Ireland from Dallas and Mel Tucker and [Jacksonville GM] Gene Smith have a long-time relationship,” Wooten said. “But just because they get to be the interim guy, that doesn’t constitute an interview for the job and we’ve reminded the league of that. … We’re not saying the teams have to interview those guys, but they do have to fulfill the Rooney Rule.”

 

[rizzler]

Am I the only one who thinks Estefan, Lopez and the Williams sisters would LOVE to have a black coach... named Obama?

 

[RUSF18]

Let's look at it a different way...

Miami is set to hire one of 3 or 4 possible candidates, all of them white...we know it, you know, the media down here knows it. So before they can do that they must also appear to comply with the Rooney Rule. So after they don't fire Sparano going 0-7 to start, they wait till after he has a nice 4-1 run and the team was playing very hard to suddenly fire him with 3 weeks left in the season so they can promote Todd Bowles and thus they have now complied with the Rooney Rule.



And the KC connection is simple, they want to get the jump and Jeff Fisher is supposed to be very interested in the KC job from rumors down here. Carl Peterson was the KC GM for those that seem to miss the connection and so they make a rush decision to fire Sparano so they can take care of this piece of the pie before they make a formal offer immediately or ASAP to Fisher or perhaps one of the other candidates.

I would have respected Bowles if he had turned down their offer or walked out with his head coach. I don't expect him to do that and as I said I'm happy he has a chance but this is simple window dressing. If they fired Sparano in week 8 and gone with Bowles the rest of the season I would have respected it a lot more.

You all from other parts of the country can think whatever you like. If you detest this thread more power to you but I believe it is better to discuss it than ignore it.

Are you forgetting that Miami openly courted Jim Harbaugh last season while Sparano was still employed? You're inventing scenarios here.

 

[mr roboto]

Has it been mentioned that this does not fulfill the Rooney Rule at all? Interim hires do not need to be vetted through the Rooney Rule process. There was no circumventing.When the position will be filled next year they will still have to interview a minority member, which in this case will probably be the interim coach.I'm obviously not understanding the outrage here....

Minority coaching candidates Romeo Crennel(AP Photo) Perhaps it’s merely coincidence, but all three of the teams who have fired coaches so far have hired African-American interim coaches. Jacksonville promoted defensive coordinator Mel Tucker, Kansas City did the same with defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel and Miami put assistant head coach Todd Bowles in charge. Those who don’t trust the process might think that each of those teams was doing that so they could get a head start on fulfilling the Rooney Rule, which requires teams that are hiring from outside the organization to interview at least one minority candidate. Wooten, who advises the league on the Rooney Rule, said he believes that all three moves were simply natural appointments. “Romeo is [Kansas City general manager] Scott Pioli’s guy from New England, Todd Bowles came to the Dolphins with [Miami GM] Jeff Ireland from Dallas and Mel Tucker and [Jacksonville GM] Gene Smith have a long-time relationship,” Wooten said. “But just because they get to be the interim guy, that doesn’t constitute an interview for the job and we’ve reminded the league of that. … We’re not saying the teams have to interview those guys, but they do have to fulfill the Rooney Rule.”

Facts are not allowed when going MoP about a subject off the cuff.

 

[Please See Mine]

Count me amongst those who don't see the issue here.

As previously mentioned, Bowles was the Assistant Head Coach according to NFL.com's Miami coaching staff info. He seems the common sense choice then to succeed him so I don't get why anyone would have an issue with him being the one chosen.

If you asked Bowles, "Hey Todd, we would like to interview you for the head coaching job. We'll give you the choice of being the interim head coach and then interviewing you... or if you prefer we'll make Mike Nolan the interim head coach and still interview you. Which would you prefer?"

What do you think Bowles is going to say? If it were me, I'd take the head coaching experience and the chance to show I can run a team.

The only thing I think there is to comment about the situation is that it looks like they planned to can Sparano regardless of how the rest of the season went. Then sped that up when KC fired Haley so they wouldn't miss out on a chance to talk to their preferred candidates without having to "go behind Sparano's back" and do it while he's still the coach.

To which I'd say I don't really see a problem with doing that either. We can have a debate about if Sparano should have been fired at all, but nothing else about the situation seems to have been done in poor taste. Let alone in an attempt to circumvent the Rooney Rule.

Yeah, Ross would never do that.

 

[belljr]

Has it been mentioned that this does not fulfill the Rooney Rule at all? Interim hires do not need to be vetted through the Rooney Rule process. There was no circumventing.When the position will be filled next year they will still have to interview a minority member, which in this case will probably be the interim coach.I'm obviously not understanding the outrage here....

Minority coaching candidates Romeo Crennel(AP Photo) Perhaps it’s merely coincidence, but all three of the teams who have fired coaches so far have hired African-American interim coaches. Jacksonville promoted defensive coordinator Mel Tucker, Kansas City did the same with defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel and Miami put assistant head coach Todd Bowles in charge. Those who don’t trust the process might think that each of those teams was doing that so they could get a head start on fulfilling the Rooney Rule, which requires teams that are hiring from outside the organization to interview at least one minority candidate. Wooten, who advises the league on the Rooney Rule, said he believes that all three moves were simply natural appointments. “Romeo is [Kansas City general manager] Scott Pioli’s guy from New England, Todd Bowles came to the Dolphins with [Miami GM] Jeff Ireland from Dallas and Mel Tucker and [Jacksonville GM] Gene Smith have a long-time relationship,” Wooten said. “But just because they get to be the interim guy, that doesn’t constitute an interview for the job and we’ve reminded the league of that. … We’re not saying the teams have to interview those guys, but they do have to fulfill the Rooney Rule.”

Facts are not allowed when going MoP about a subject off the cuff.

Ahhh that's the part I missed , carry on

 

[Jail]

What Miami did is a joke. They fire Sparano minutes after KC fires Haley which I'll get to in a minute and then they promote a coach in Todd Bowles that has absolutely zero chance to land that job but he fills the Rooney Rule clause for their franchise. Sparano was 4-1 his previous 5 games prior to the Eagles game and the reason Miami lost was primarily Carpenter missing an early kick which would have given them a 10-0 lead and then Moore had an off day, gift wrapped an interception, Bess fumbled, and then Moore is knocked out when Reggie Bush started to get going, plus the team had 4 sacks early, held McCoy to 38 yds rushing on 27 attempts!!! Sparano is not the reason Miami lost that football game. But the Dolphins have no plans on keeping Sparano despite the media hoopla the last month that he might be able to keep his job which was also a joke. Miami panics because KC lets go of Haley and they already have an African American asst coach with head coaching experience in Romeo Crennel so that was an easy job of inserting him the last 3 games, interview him as well, even if they don't hire Crennel which they won't, it still looks a lot better than what Miami was forced to do. I think all 3 candidates that are linked to Miami right now including Cowher, Fisher, and Gruden, all 3 of them are terrible moves for Miami. We've seen a lot of head coaches who have lengthy resumes including Super Bowl wins go an flop with new teams. Miami despite what some of the fans may think is still a long way off from being a yearly powerhouse. They were on the right track racking up losses but then they went 4-1 over a stretch that will likely put them out of the top QB race in the draft. They have a GM that is a total joke and Carl Peterson is past his prime assuming he is pulling the strings from behind the curtain. So back to the topic, why oh why can't Goodell see this as an obvious way to circumvent the Rooney Rule? Miami is simply making sure they do not get fined and they appear to have made their best effort to find an African American for the vacancy. You can't blame Bowles for wanting to coach the last 3 weeks. This is an opportunity for him to add to his resume. If he ends up 2-1 down the stretch he might be able to move up to an OC position...to my knowledge he is the RB coach and really they should have had Nolan take over the duties but again this helps Miami circumvent the Rooney Rule. What say you?

I think you're really shortchanging Bowles here. He has been interviewed for head coaching positions before. I think that is why they made him Assistant Head coach so they couldn't lose him to another team unless it was for a head coach position.

 

[zDragon]

Seriously? Orande Gadsen who covers the team down here said it was an absolute joke on the radio yesterday. They are doing it so they can go out and try and hire someone else, one of the 3 names I mentioned. Miami has no intention of hiring Todd Bowles...NONE!!! in fact they should have turned things over to Nolan the last 3 weeks but they are praying they lose the final 3 games and go 4-12 so they promote a RB coach who doesn't even have any asst HC experience.

As I said I'm happy for Bowles but this is so transparent what they are doing.

So....you think things like the Rooney rule are really going to help lead us to a time when we are all truly color blind? I certainly don't. Racial quotas of any kind are simply a reversal of discrimination. (That's not to say that they can't be temporarily applied to help counter a past imbalance. They may sometimes be justified, but that doesn't change the fact that SOMEONE is still being discriminated against, and a second wrong can never fully right the initial wrong!)Giving a black coach several weeks of OTJ experiance isn't exactly a blatant disregard of the rule anyway.

Being Asian-American I have found this is the whole purpose of the rule. I have always wondered what would be said if Norm-Chow was brought in for the token minority interviews.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

What a strange OP. From everything I've seen, Bowles did indeed have Asst. HC experience...because he was MIA's Asst. HC before being promoted, which seems the sensible thing to do. If anything, promoting someone to the HC position who ISN'T your Asst. HC would be sketchy. Not this.

You realize that they didn't HAVE to promote an African-American coach from within right NOW to fulfill the Rooney Rule, right? What they've done doesn't fulfill any requirement.

 

[Wadsworth]

Has it been mentioned that this does not fulfill the Rooney Rule at all?

Mentioned and ignored.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I, for one, am shocked that MOP wrote a lengthy post that made no sense.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

There is also this to consider:

"Once the season is concluded, the head coaching position must be considered open and the club must fill the position in accordance with the interviewing guidelines," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told PFT via email on Tuesday morning. "No club may make a commitment to a coach retained during the season that extends beyond the end of the club's playing season."

PFT's interpretation:

In other words, hiring a minority coach to serve as the interim head coach doesn't operate as a blank check to hire a permanent head coach whenever the team chooses to do so.

LINK

True but it makes it a lot easier to interview that person and then turn them down. Jax, KC, and Miami all did this...what are the odds any of these 3 get hired for 2012?

If Jax wasn't getting a new owner I'd think there was a chance the interim coach may stick around since he's be cheap and all.I think Crennel has a chance to stick on given his previous experience and the Pioli connection = but if I had to guess I'd say he does not.

I think Bowles is the least likely to stick around as you imply since Weaver has already said he wants a "name" - but I still don't think promoting him from Asst. HC to interim HC had any nefarious intent.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Seriously? Orande Gadsen who covers the team down here said it was an absolute joke on the radio yesterday. They are doing it so they can go out and try and hire someone else, one of the 3 names I mentioned. Miami has no intention of hiring Todd Bowles...NONE!!! in fact they should have turned things over to Nolan the last 3 weeks but they are praying they lose the final 3 games and go 4-12 so they promote a RB coach who doesn't even have any asst HC experience. As I said I'm happy for Bowles but this is so transparent what they are doing.

Of course it's a joke. And it's brought to you by the Rooney Rule itself. The rule forces teams to make insincere overtures to candidates that wouldn't be considered otherwise. The problem is that many of them wouldn't be considered for reasons that have nothing to do with race. That's what happens when government tries to regulate thought and motive. In normal legal activities, it has tough time doing so effectively. It can, however, more effectively regulate behavior. So you get rules concerning behavior, which are largely ineffective in achieving their purpose concerning motives, because the outcomes (the decision) of both racists and non-racists can look identical.What would be wrong with a team hiring Bill Cowher? Absolutely nothing. Want a coach that's won a Super Bowl? Too bad. If he's white, you still better interview a black candidate or the NFL will tell you that you might have hired Bill Cowher not because of his impressive resume', but because you're a racist and you appreciate that he isn't black.For all the good intentions of the rule, this is the foolishness it causes. It's a feel good provision so the NFL can say "We've done something". But if we're honest, we could admit that it can't really do anything. Racism won't die until the racists all die. But we wring our hands and demand that it do something, anything, even if it's a token and futile measure, because the truth is too bitter a pill to swallow.

 

[two_dollars]

On a side note I think all NFL teams should be required to try out a white RB and white WR every training camp.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Seriously? Orande Gadsen who covers the team down here said it was an absolute joke on the radio yesterday. They are doing it so they can go out and try and hire someone else, one of the 3 names I mentioned. Miami has no intention of hiring Todd Bowles...NONE!!! in fact they should have turned things over to Nolan the last 3 weeks but they are praying they lose the final 3 games and go 4-12 so they promote a RB coach who doesn't even have any asst HC experience. As I said I'm happy for Bowles but this is so transparent what they are doing.

Of course it's a joke. And it's brought to you by the Rooney Rule itself. The rule forces teams to make insincere overtures to candidates that wouldn't be considered otherwise. The problem is that many of them wouldn't be considered for reasons that have nothing to do with race. That's what happens when government tries to regulate thought and motive. In normal legal activities, it has tough time doing so effectively. It can, however, more effectively regulate behavior. So you get rules concerning behavior, which are largely ineffective in achieving their purpose concerning motives, because the outcomes (the decision) of both racists and non-racists can look identical.What would be wrong with a team hiring Bill Cowher? Absolutely nothing. Want a coach that's won a Super Bowl? Too bad. If he's white, you still better interview a black candidate or the NFL will tell you that you might have hired Bill Cowher not because of his impressive resume', but because you're a racist and you appreciate that he isn't black.For all the good intentions of the rule, this is the foolishness it causes. It's a feel good provision so the NFL can say "We've done something". But if we're honest, we could admit that it can't really do anything. Racism won't die until the racists all die. But we wring our hands and demand that it do something, anything, even if it's a token and futile measure, because the truth is too bitter a pill to swallow.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Seriously? Orande Gadsen who covers the team down here said it was an absolute joke on the radio yesterday. They are doing it so they can go out and try and hire someone else, one of the 3 names I mentioned. Miami has no intention of hiring Todd Bowles...NONE!!! in fact they should have turned things over to Nolan the last 3 weeks but they are praying they lose the final 3 games and go 4-12 so they promote a RB coach who doesn't even have any asst HC experience. As I said I'm happy for Bowles but this is so transparent what they are doing.

Of course it's a joke. And it's brought to you by the Rooney Rule itself. The rule forces teams to make insincere overtures to candidates that wouldn't be considered otherwise. The problem is that many of them wouldn't be considered for reasons that have nothing to do with race. That's what happens when government tries to regulate thought and motive. In normal legal activities, it has tough time doing so effectively. It can, however, more effectively regulate behavior. So you get rules concerning behavior, which are largely ineffective in achieving their purpose concerning motives, because the outcomes (the decision) of both racists and non-racists can look identical.What would be wrong with a team hiring Bill Cowher? Absolutely nothing. Want a coach that's won a Super Bowl? Too bad. If he's white, you still better interview a black candidate or the NFL will tell you that you might have hired Bill Cowher not because of his impressive resume', but because you're a racist and you appreciate that he isn't black.For all the good intentions of the rule, this is the foolishness it causes. It's a feel good provision so the NFL can say "We've done something". But if we're honest, we could admit that it can't really do anything. Racism won't die until the racists all die. But we wring our hands and demand that it do something, anything, even if it's a token and futile measure, because the truth is too bitter a pill to swallow.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Has it been mentioned that this does not fulfill the Rooney Rule at all? Interim hires do not need to be vetted through the Rooney Rule process. There was no circumventing.When the position will be filled next year they will still have to interview a minority member, which in this case will probably be the interim coach.I'm obviously not understanding the outrage here....

Minority coaching candidates Romeo Crennel(AP Photo) Perhaps it's merely coincidence, but all three of the teams who have fired coaches so far have hired African-American interim coaches. Jacksonville promoted defensive coordinator Mel Tucker, Kansas City did the same with defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel and Miami put assistant head coach Todd Bowles in charge. Those who don't trust the process might think that each of those teams was doing that so they could get a head start on fulfilling the Rooney Rule, which requires teams that are hiring from outside the organization to interview at least one minority candidate. Wooten, who advises the league on the Rooney Rule, said he believes that all three moves were simply natural appointments. "Romeo is [Kansas City general manager] Scott Pioli's guy from New England, Todd Bowles came to the Dolphins with [Miami GM] Jeff Ireland from Dallas and Mel Tucker and [Jacksonville GM] Gene Smith have a long-time relationship," Wooten said. "But just because they get to be the interim guy, that doesn't constitute an interview for the job and we've reminded the league of that. … We're not saying the teams have to interview those guys, but they do have to fulfill the Rooney Rule."

Facts are not allowed when going MoP about a subject off the cuff.

Ahhh that's the part I missed , carry on

Not sure what the motivations were for any of the three being hired. I can't take issue with any of them. But if I wanted to assume these were racist organizations intent on hiring white coaches and defending their decision to do so, having promoted a minority coach in the interim for the last few games of a lost season and then interviewing him after the season was over would certainly provide some political cover, wink-wink-nudge-nudge, before going with the white guy.Which is the problem with the Rooney Rule. It requires token effort which I don't see as providing any real benefit. If you were willing to hire a qualified coach regardless of race, the Rooney Rule doesn't make you any more likely to do so. And if you aren't willing to hire a qualified coach regardless of race, the Rooney Rule doesn't make you any more likely to do so. It's heavy on the symbolism, but lacking in substance.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I'm already being heckled by Dr Awesome, I'm in big trouble, likely off the FBG XMas card list again.

 

[JamesTheScot]

The Rooney rule was designed to get african american coaches interviews for head coaching vacancies and to give them an opportunity to show what they can do. Nothing more or nothing less. A team is not required to hire them or to even take the interview seriously.

That being said the Rooney rule is a joke. Teams will hire the best person for the job these days. If you are a winner they will give you a interview.

I think this is true in most cases. You just have to add in the caveat that the team will hire the person it thinks is best for the job. So it's still a subjective standard applied by imperfect people. And since a racist would believe a minority candidate to be inferior, that would mean that the racist would honestly think a black candidate wouldn't be the best person for the job. So they would exclude the minority candidate from consideration believing themselves to be focusing on the best candidates for the job.But, again, as you state, a token Rooney interview isn't going to change that.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Has it been mentioned that this does not fulfill the Rooney Rule at all? Interim hires do not need to be vetted through the Rooney Rule process. There was no circumventing.When the position will be filled next year they will still have to interview a minority member, which in this case will probably be the interim coach.I'm obviously not understanding the outrage here....

Minority coaching candidates Romeo Crennel(AP Photo) Perhaps it's merely coincidence, but all three of the teams who have fired coaches so far have hired African-American interim coaches. Jacksonville promoted defensive coordinator Mel Tucker, Kansas City did the same with defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel and Miami put assistant head coach Todd Bowles in charge. Those who don't trust the process might think that each of those teams was doing that so they could get a head start on fulfilling the Rooney Rule, which requires teams that are hiring from outside the organization to interview at least one minority candidate. Wooten, who advises the league on the Rooney Rule, said he believes that all three moves were simply natural appointments. "Romeo is [Kansas City general manager] Scott Pioli's guy from New England, Todd Bowles came to the Dolphins with [Miami GM] Jeff Ireland from Dallas and Mel Tucker and [Jacksonville GM] Gene Smith have a long-time relationship," Wooten said. "But just because they get to be the interim guy, that doesn't constitute an interview for the job and we've reminded the league of that. … We're not saying the teams have to interview those guys, but they do have to fulfill the Rooney Rule."

Facts are not allowed when going MoP about a subject off the cuff.

Ahhh that's the part I missed , carry on

Not sure what the motivations were for any of the three being hired. I can't take issue with any of them. But if I wanted to assume these were racist organizations intent on hiring white coaches and defending their decision to do so, having promoted a minority coach in the interim for the last few games of a lost season and then interviewing him after the season was over would certainly provide some political cover, wink-wink-nudge-nudge, before going with the white guy.Which is the problem with the Rooney Rule. It requires token effort which I don't see as providing any real benefit. If you were willing to hire a qualified coach regardless of race, the Rooney Rule doesn't make you any more likely to do so. And if you aren't willing to hire a qualified coach regardless of race, the Rooney Rule doesn't make you any more likely to do so. It's heavy on the symbolism, but lacking in substance.

I could definately buy the argument that it's served its purpose and can be done away with, but I think you're mischaracterizing the original intent of the rule. Also you have now twice said it doesn't provide any real benefit when there are numerous examples (many listed in this thread) that some have benefitted from the rule.Whether or not you want to beleive that there were racial motivations behind it (who knows?) - at one point in time there were very few minority canidates that ever received a sniff for consideration when there was a vacant HC position despite many canidates with impressive credentials (and with the same retreads being rehired). The rule was originally put in place to shine a light on some of these canidates that were being ignored, get them some experience in the interview process and perhaps uncover a "hidden" gem. It has worked - it's certainly arguable that it has worked so well that its no longer necessary I'll give you that but it had a purpose at one point.

 

[GOB]

Circumventing... The old reach around.

 

[belljr]

Has it been mentioned that this does not fulfill the Rooney Rule at all? Interim hires do not need to be vetted through the Rooney Rule process. There was no circumventing.When the position will be filled next year they will still have to interview a minority member, which in this case will probably be the interim coach.I'm obviously not understanding the outrage here....

Minority coaching candidates Romeo Crennel(AP Photo) Perhaps it's merely coincidence, but all three of the teams who have fired coaches so far have hired African-American interim coaches. Jacksonville promoted defensive coordinator Mel Tucker, Kansas City did the same with defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel and Miami put assistant head coach Todd Bowles in charge. Those who don't trust the process might think that each of those teams was doing that so they could get a head start on fulfilling the Rooney Rule, which requires teams that are hiring from outside the organization to interview at least one minority candidate. Wooten, who advises the league on the Rooney Rule, said he believes that all three moves were simply natural appointments. "Romeo is [Kansas City general manager] Scott Pioli's guy from New England, Todd Bowles came to the Dolphins with [Miami GM] Jeff Ireland from Dallas and Mel Tucker and [Jacksonville GM] Gene Smith have a long-time relationship," Wooten said. "But just because they get to be the interim guy, that doesn't constitute an interview for the job and we've reminded the league of that. … We're not saying the teams have to interview those guys, but they do have to fulfill the Rooney Rule."

Facts are not allowed when going MoP about a subject off the cuff.

Ahhh that's the part I missed , carry on

Not sure what the motivations were for any of the three being hired. I can't take issue with any of them. But if I wanted to assume these were racist organizations intent on hiring white coaches and defending their decision to do so, having promoted a minority coach in the interim for the last few games of a lost season and then interviewing him after the season was over would certainly provide some political cover, wink-wink-nudge-nudge, before going with the white guy.Which is the problem with the Rooney Rule. It requires token effort which I don't see as providing any real benefit. If you were willing to hire a qualified coach regardless of race, the Rooney Rule doesn't make you any more likely to do so. And if you aren't willing to hire a qualified coach regardless of race, the Rooney Rule doesn't make you any more likely to do so. It's heavy on the symbolism, but lacking in substance.

Arguing the merits of the Rooney Rule is a different topic than accusing these organizations of trying to "skip" the Rooney Rule by tagging minority coaches as interims.Once the season is over the clubs still have to follow the hiring practices laid out by the league and follow the Rooney rule. The "outrage" that these clubs are somehow skipping it is wrong. They are not "off the hook". They have to follow the steps just as if the coach was fired in January.I won't argue with your feelings of the actual Rooney Rule just these clubs are not cheating the system

 

[JamesTheScot]

Does the Rooney rule really cause teams to hire more minorities?

Indirectly, it really has. Just getting one's name mentioned repeatedly in connection with open HC slots has proven to be extremely valuable -- nearly as valuable, IMHO, as being a coordinator on a SB-winning team.

It just causes them to have a lot more token interviews and then they'll hire whoever they want which is what they would have done without the rule.

Again, token interviews are valuable. Ask Leslie Frazier, Mike Tomlin, and Ron Rivera. Not sure if Tomlin ever did a token interview, but Frazier and Rivera did many.

I don't think Tomlin did necessarily, but at the time I don't believe that he was considered to be a serious canidate for the Steeler job (it was expected to go to Wisenhutt or Grimm) - it was reported that Tomlin was just so impressive during his interview that he got the job. So it did work there as well.

But that doesn't prove the value at all. It would only prove the issue if the teams only interviewed these guys because of the Rooney Rule and wouldn't have otherwise because of their race. Any team willing to hire a minority head coach is a team that was already open-minded enough to seriously interview a minority candidate for the position. You can't get to B without going through A. Teams that would interview candidates irrespective of race didn't need the Rooney Rule to make them do so.In other words, if the resume wasn't impressive enough to warrant a serious interview, then it had nothing to do with race, and it had everything to do with the candidate's body of work. And that same resume deficiency/lack of experience bias is present for white candidates as well.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Has it been mentioned that this does not fulfill the Rooney Rule at all? Interim hires do not need to be vetted through the Rooney Rule process. There was no circumventing.When the position will be filled next year they will still have to interview a minority member, which in this case will probably be the interim coach.I'm obviously not understanding the outrage here....

Minority coaching candidates Romeo Crennel(AP Photo) Perhaps it's merely coincidence, but all three of the teams who have fired coaches so far have hired African-American interim coaches. Jacksonville promoted defensive coordinator Mel Tucker, Kansas City did the same with defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel and Miami put assistant head coach Todd Bowles in charge. Those who don't trust the process might think that each of those teams was doing that so they could get a head start on fulfilling the Rooney Rule, which requires teams that are hiring from outside the organization to interview at least one minority candidate. Wooten, who advises the league on the Rooney Rule, said he believes that all three moves were simply natural appointments. "Romeo is [Kansas City general manager] Scott Pioli's guy from New England, Todd Bowles came to the Dolphins with [Miami GM] Jeff Ireland from Dallas and Mel Tucker and [Jacksonville GM] Gene Smith have a long-time relationship," Wooten said. "But just because they get to be the interim guy, that doesn't constitute an interview for the job and we've reminded the league of that. … We're not saying the teams have to interview those guys, but they do have to fulfill the Rooney Rule."

Facts are not allowed when going MoP about a subject off the cuff.

Ahhh that's the part I missed , carry on

Not sure what the motivations were for any of the three being hired. I can't take issue with any of them. But if I wanted to assume these were racist organizations intent on hiring white coaches and defending their decision to do so, having promoted a minority coach in the interim for the last few games of a lost season and then interviewing him after the season was over would certainly provide some political cover, wink-wink-nudge-nudge, before going with the white guy.Which is the problem with the Rooney Rule. It requires token effort which I don't see as providing any real benefit. If you were willing to hire a qualified coach regardless of race, the Rooney Rule doesn't make you any more likely to do so. And if you aren't willing to hire a qualified coach regardless of race, the Rooney Rule doesn't make you any more likely to do so. It's heavy on the symbolism, but lacking in substance.

Arguing the merits of the Rooney Rule is a different topic than accusing these organizations of trying to "skip" the Rooney Rule by tagging minority coaches as interims.Once the season is over the clubs still have to follow the hiring practices laid out by the league and follow the Rooney rule. The "outrage" that these clubs are somehow skipping it is wrong. They are not "off the hook". They have to follow the steps just as if the coach was fired in January.I won't argue with your feelings of the actual Rooney Rule just these clubs are not cheating the system

I don't believe that they are. I'm just arguing against the Rooney Rule (again).

 

[belljr]

Has it been mentioned that this does not fulfill the Rooney Rule at all? Interim hires do not need to be vetted through the Rooney Rule process. There was no circumventing.

When the position will be filled next year they will still have to interview a minority member, which in this case will probably be the interim coach.

I'm obviously not understanding the outrage here....

Minority coaching candidates

Romeo Crennel

(AP Photo)

Perhaps it's merely coincidence, but all three of the teams who have fired coaches so far have hired African-American interim coaches. Jacksonville promoted defensive coordinator Mel Tucker, Kansas City did the same with defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel and Miami put assistant head coach Todd Bowles in charge. Those who don't trust the process might think that each of those teams was doing that so they could get a head start on fulfilling the Rooney Rule, which requires teams that are hiring from outside the organization to interview at least one minority candidate. Wooten, who advises the league on the Rooney Rule, said he believes that all three moves were simply natural appointments. "Romeo is [Kansas City general manager] Scott Pioli's guy from New England, Todd Bowles came to the Dolphins with [Miami GM] Jeff Ireland from Dallas and Mel Tucker and [Jacksonville GM] Gene Smith have a long-time relationship," Wooten said. "But just because they get to be the interim guy, that doesn't constitute an interview for the job and we've reminded the league of that. … We're not saying the teams have to interview those guys, but they do have to fulfill the Rooney Rule."

Facts are not allowed when going MoP about a subject off the cuff.

Ahhh that's the part I missed , carry on

Not sure what the motivations were for any of the three being hired. I can't take issue with any of them. But if I wanted to assume these were racist organizations intent on hiring white coaches and defending their decision to do so, having promoted a minority coach in the interim for the last few games of a lost season and then interviewing him after the season was over would certainly provide some political cover, wink-wink-nudge-nudge, before going with the white guy.

Which is the problem with the Rooney Rule. It requires token effort which I don't see as providing any real benefit. If you were willing to hire a qualified coach regardless of race, the Rooney Rule doesn't make you any more likely to do so. And if you aren't willing to hire a qualified coach regardless of race, the Rooney Rule doesn't make you any more likely to do so. It's heavy on the symbolism, but lacking in substance.

Arguing the merits of the Rooney Rule is a different topic than accusing these organizations of trying to "skip" the Rooney Rule by tagging minority coaches as interims.Once the season is over the clubs still have to follow the hiring practices laid out by the league and follow the Rooney rule. The "outrage" that these clubs are somehow skipping it is wrong. They are not "off the hook". They have to follow the steps just as if the coach was fired in January.

I won't argue with your feelings of the actual Rooney Rule just these clubs are not cheating the system

I don't believe that they are. I'm just arguing against the Rooney Rule (again).

Please see mine - I was wrong about interims before

 

[Bri]

Re thread topic, it's not as obvious as most people seem to let on.

When the Rooney rule started there weren't even many black coaches in the NFL that would be serious candidates. Most OC and DC were white. People used a double-edged sword of wanting a black head coach yet not wanting a team to hire from a different league(like college or NFLE or Arena etc) or some positional coach. Some people just needed to work their way up the ladder. I believe the next trend was to promote some too quickly and they didn't fare very well as they were rushed into a job. When team's have hired coaches after proper seasoning and development, the race has never mattered. Pushing the envelope often causes probs.

"Some black guy" that becomes a lame-duck head coach for a few weeks now has experience that few other non-head coaches have. He becomes a prime candidate for next time. It's also advantageous to be a lame duck and try things with such a minimal risk. This lame duck route has brought exposure. Some rock, some stink. It does bear some fruit in projecting how a job prospect will do.

Marvin Lewis was as sharp a DC as could be in Baltimore. I couldn't fathom why he wasn't a head coach. He went to the Redskins and was an assistant head coach, then got his shot in Cincy and we all raised eyebrows about the job he did. In hindsight it's crystal clear that the owners and GMs had some issues and we saw that during his early days in Cincy. He's coming along now. I don't know, but maybe someday he'll be the top HC everyone hoped he'd be. The process shows a good purpose with him though.

Romeo's not so different from Marvin. He was adored by some in Cleveland and even asked to stay on after he was relieved of his head coaching duties there. He may pan out now, if he gets a genuine shot.

NFL coaches don't coach all that much. They're more managers and event planners than coaches. Coordinators coach. Most people forget this fact. **** LeBeau has coached some of the better defenses in the league for like a zillion years. He's outstanding. He didn't do so good as a manager though.

 

[Bri]

What Miami did is a joke. They fire Sparano minutes after KC fires Haley which I'll get to in a minute and then they promote a coach in Todd Bowles that has absolutely zero chance to land that job but he fills the Rooney Rule clause for their franchise. Sparano was 4-1 his previous 5 games prior to the Eagles game and the reason Miami lost was primarily Carpenter missing an early kick which would have given them a 10-0 lead and then Moore had an off day, gift wrapped an interception, Bess fumbled, and then Moore is knocked out when Reggie Bush started to get going, plus the team had 4 sacks early, held McCoy to 38 yds rushing on 27 attempts!!! Sparano is not the reason Miami lost that football game. But the Dolphins have no plans on keeping Sparano despite the media hoopla the last month that he might be able to keep his job which was also a joke. Miami panics because KC lets go of Haley and they already have an African American asst coach with head coaching experience in Romeo Crennel so that was an easy job of inserting him the last 3 games, interview him as well, even if they don't hire Crennel which they won't, it still looks a lot better than what Miami was forced to do. I think all 3 candidates that are linked to Miami right now including Cowher, Fisher, and Gruden, all 3 of them are terrible moves for Miami. We've seen a lot of head coaches who have lengthy resumes including Super Bowl wins go an flop with new teams. Miami despite what some of the fans may think is still a long way off from being a yearly powerhouse. They were on the right track racking up losses but then they went 4-1 over a stretch that will likely put them out of the top QB race in the draft. They have a GM that is a total joke and Carl Peterson is past his prime assuming he is pulling the strings from behind the curtain. So back to the topic, why oh why can't Goodell see this as an obvious way to circumvent the Rooney Rule? Miami is simply making sure they do not get fined and they appear to have made their best effort to find an African American for the vacancy. You can't blame Bowles for wanting to coach the last 3 weeks. This is an opportunity for him to add to his resume. If he ends up 2-1 down the stretch he might be able to move up to an OC position...to my knowledge he is the RB coach and really they should have had Nolan take over the duties but again this helps Miami circumvent the Rooney Rule. What say you?

Peterson isn't KC anymore, old Pats guy is Pioli. He promoted Romeo a former Pats DC and Haley was...eh you get the picture.Venus Williams and her sister were ridiculously impressive athletes. I used to enjoy reading about their work ethic, dedication, and understanding of winning-sooo not to be understated. Last I checked they were part owners of the Fins. Venus(I think it's her) wanted to be involved more but it wasn't so easy to do and she was going to but...it was a mess. Anyhow, she may well have done this Sparano thing. I don't know. I don't doubt those two sisters ability to smell a winner though or that they could sniff out slackers or poor attitudes around the facility. I'm surprised this is a Rooney discussion. I don't know if they need to spend more $, retire from tennis or what, but several articles gave me the impression they were going to put their toe in the water someday. I'm not going to project success for two tennis chicks, but "they're built differently" you don't doubt winners like that.

 

[Topes]

Why doesn't Goodell punish franchises for circumventing The Rooney Rule?

Probably because they're not circumventing the Rooney Rule.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

True but it makes it a lot easier to interview that person and then turn them down. Jax, KC, and Miami all did this...what are the odds any of these 3 get hired for 2012?

2 out of the 3 were winners this past weekend. Todd Bowles will always have at least one NFL win as a HC on his resume. It seems according to Peter King that there is a decent chance that Crennel could earn the KC gig and that the defensive players are hoping that he does.

 

[Sam Quentin]

Rooney Rule works