Why doesn't Kansas City use Dante Hall like the Saints do Bush? (1 Viewer)

[JuniorNB]

The way the Saints use Reggie Bush to keep the defense on their toes has been working very effectively.

Dante Hall is another fast, shifty back with good hands.

Is there a reason that the Chiefs don't line Hall up in the slot and throw him little dump passes and let him use his speed and moves?

Like the Saints do with Bush, they could still let him return punts, but it seems his long ball threat is going to waste when he's not incorporated in the offense more.

 

[code]

Dante Hall is no Reggie Bush

 

[-OZ-]

Is there a reason that the Chiefs don't line Hall up in the slot and throw him little dump passes and let him use his speed and moves?

They have done this, but

Dante Hall is no Reggie Bush

A couple years ago, Saunders and Vermiel gameplanned a lot of looks for Dante Hall. He just didn't perform as expected.

 

[Warpig]

I haven't checked, but I have seen all the Chiefs games, isn't he leading the team in receptions and receiving TD's?

It seems to me that they do use him alot. He doesn't look as shifty as a WR as he does a kick returner. Maybe it's a mental thing and he's still not totally comfortable playing offense.

Check that. He had 5 receptions after week one which was the most for any WR on the team (though TG had 10). He has tapered off her the last couple of weeks, but they have had him as a slot receiver alot and when Huard has time he looks for him a good bit.

 

[Dancing Bear]

Here's a newflash ...

The Kansas City Chiefs have had the most potent OFFENSE in the NFL for what, the last 5 years. They did not need to use Dante Hall in any other way than what they did. They had a variety of weapons and used them all to great success.

The Chiefs demise has been their horrible DEFENSE. Let's remember that it is a team game, shall we. With more than one player, and more than just an offense.

It is also very premature to state that Reggie Bush has done anything extra-ordinary for the Saints. They have a full complement of players who play each week. So far, they have performed in-sync and played well. Let's not forget the remaining 52 guys who sport a uniform ...

Bush is an average backup RB.

Is there a lot of hype and anticipation for what he might do? Sure. Is this good for the game? Sure.

Is he the reason that New Orleans is 4-1. Good grief, give us a break!

 

[Buckna]

When you've got Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson, why would you need to?

 

[Shermanator]

Is he the reason that New Orleans is 4-1. Good grief, give us a break!

Yes he is. Anyone that has watched any NO games this year would agree

 

[heyshady]

Here's a newflash ...It is also very premature to state that Reggie Bush has done anything extra-ordinary for the Saints. They have a full complement of players who play each week. So far, they have performed in-sync and played well. Let's not forget the remaining 52 guys who sport a uniform ...

You don't actually watch the games do you? You probably also think Vick is overrated. Bush and Vick on a football field are very similar. Their stats don't tell the truth... the respect opposing defenses have to give them tells the story. But you actually have to watch a football game and understand what you are seeing to be able to fully appreciate Bush (and Vick). Of course Brees and McAllister etc... play a part but Bush is drawing so much attention that their jobs are 1000 times easier. Thus the team is playing a lot better than they have in the past. A lot of credit has to go to Bush and it is absolutely not premature.

 

[Dancing Bear]

C'mon you really must be joking ...

Tell me for instance, how Reggie Bush held Atlanta to 3 points ...

Hint, it because there are other players on the Saints team. They play defense ... They play special teams ...

I did not say that Reggie Bush was not good for the game, or that he did not cause consternation for the opposing defenses. He does ... for sure.

But don't tell me that that's the reason why McAllister is a good runner. He always has been. Don't tell me that is why Brees is being successful either ...

And you completely missed the whole nature of my thesis which is that Kansas City used their whole collective talents to score points as an Offense. Too bad they did not do it for a good Defense.

New Orleans seems to have combined both, and it is a refreshing surprise this year. Please don't give that credit to Reggie Bush though ...

 

[JuniorNB]

Here's a newflash ...The Kansas City Chiefs have had the most potent OFFENSE in the NFL for what, the last 5 years. They did not need to use Dante Hall in any other way than what they did. They had a variety of weapons and used them all to great success.The Chiefs demise has been their horrible DEFENSE. Let's remember that it is a team game, shall we. With more than one player, and more than just an offense.It is also very premature to state that Reggie Bush has done anything extra-ordinary for the Saints. They have a full complement of players who play each week. So far, they have performed in-sync and played well. Let's not forget the remaining 52 guys who sport a uniform ...Bush is an average backup RB.Is there a lot of hype and anticipation for what he might do? Sure. Is this good for the game? Sure.Is he the reason that New Orleans is 4-1. Good grief, give us a break!

I agree that Bush is a very average NFL running back. That being said, New Orleans is still doing a great job of utilizing what he is, a very quick guy with good hands. It keeps defenses on their toes, even if he's not a part of the play.

 

[midnightxxxx]

Getting back on the topic Hall has under Vermeil been used in the past in certain roles other than KR PR duties. His true talents seem to be as a KR and a PR. When Vermeil used him as a slot WR in the past his main role on the team suffered. Hall is simply put electrifying when he touches the ball but can not be relied upon consistently to perform duties of a WR role. He gets banged up to easily and as a KC guy listening to local interviews and remembering what has been said in the past it is my opinion that he will do whatever the team asks of him to help win games. This attitude of his is remarkable in the sense of being a team player. This attitude though also allows him to think he can always contribute more. Hall admitted last year on 810AM (a local sports radio station in KC) that he performs at his peak when he is fresh. This statement to me indicates thats he primarily wants to do KR and PR duties to be more effective.

Warpig I have two words for you - SEMPER FI.

 

[Native]

Obviously Hall is not in Bush's class, but the point is still well-taken. When you have a fast guy that works well in space, why not utilize him more frequently on sceens and short passes? I never understood why more teams dont use quick shifty backs in the Westbrook/Charlie Garner role. I think its very smart to have guys like Bush, Maurice Drew and Leon Washington become more involved in the offense.

Many will mock the original thread starter, but hes making a valid point. Not just about Dante Hall imo, but about many explosive backs and receivers that dont see the ball nearly enough.

 

[JuniorNB]

Obviously Hall is not in Bush's class, but the point is still well-taken. When you have a fast guy that works well in space, why not utilize him more frequently on sceens and short passes? I never understood why more teams dont use quick shifty backs in the Westbrook/Charlie Garner role. I think its very smart to have guys like Bush, Maurice Drew and Leon Washington become more involved in the offense.

Many will mock the original thread starter, but hes making a valid point. Not just about Dante Hall imo, but about many explosive backs and receivers that dont see the ball nearly enough.

People are mocking me?

 

[ImTheScientist]

I agree that Bush is a very average NFL running back. That being said, New Orleans is still doing a great job of utilizing what he is, a very quick guy with good hands. It keeps defenses on their toes, even if he's not a part of the play.

He has had 53 carries over 5 games for the year....just a little to early to call him an average NFL running back. How many other RB's have could potentially lead the league in receptions?

 

[Sidewinder]

...

Bush is an average backup RB.

...

You lose all credibility with that.

 

[zdaddy]

But don't tell me that that's the reason why McAllister is a good runner. He always has been. Don't tell me that is why Brees is being successful either ...

He is not the entire reason, but he a big part of it. Less focus on McAllister and Brees and more on Bush, means more numbers for McAllister and Brees. To agrue against that is just being stuborn.

 

[JuniorNB]

I agree that Bush is a very average NFL running back. That being said, New Orleans is still doing a great job of utilizing what he is, a very quick guy with good hands. It keeps defenses on their toes, even if he's not a part of the play.

He has had 53 carries over 5 games for the year....just a little to early to call him an average NFL running back. How many other RB's have could potentially lead the league in receptions?

Any of them if their quarterback threw them a ton of swing passes.Receptions for a running back aren't the same as receptions for a receiver. Because of Bush's struggles at the line of scrimmage, the Saints are choosing to throw him passes in order to get him into space. It's not like he's running twenty yard out patterns.Running back receptions are about as relevent as running back carries. It's teh offensive coordinator trying to get the guy productive touches.

 

[zdaddy]

I agree that Bush is a very average NFL running back. That being said, New Orleans is still doing a great job of utilizing what he is, a very quick guy with good hands. It keeps defenses on their toes, even if he's not a part of the play.

I think it is a little early to call Bush an average runner. He will not get a chance to be a running back this year. It is Dueces job. I think we will have to wait until Duece is gone, or Reggis is gone, to find out what type of RB Reggie is.Comparisons of Reggie Bush and Daunte Hall are not good ones. Hall isn't even close.Hall has never been able to produce on offense, and they have given him his shots. He just dosen't perform. Hall was made famous by punt returns. The biggest ones coming against Denver, some of which two or three clips and blocks in the back were missed. Hall is just not impressive and hasn't been in some time.You want to talk about Hype surrounding a player, and the hype being greater then the players actual skill. Hall is a much better example of that than Reggie Bush.

 

[turnit643]

I don't see many Chiefs games, but I've had Dante on my team for the past couple of years because of his return abilities. He gets enough catches here and there to tack on a few points in our PPR league (he's no Welker on offense, but brings in 25-30 catches.)

I did see the KC/SF game and thought they used him the best way possible on offense that day ... they put him in a slot, motioned him and let him hit the line running against an OLB/SS and he just runs past them up the sideline. Huard found him for one TD and almost connected on another.

With his elusiveness, you'd think he'd be good on slants and shallow crosses, but he doesn't seem to be able to shake anyone once he gets the ball in those spots. I would like to see him get some chances on swings and WR screens - something away from the middle of the field with some blockers in front of him.

 

[bumpman]

I agree that Bush is a very average NFL running back. That being said, New Orleans is still doing a great job of utilizing what he is, a very quick guy with good hands. It keeps defenses on their toes, even if he's not a part of the play.

He has had 53 carries over 5 games for the year....just a little to early to call him an average NFL running back. How many other RB's have could potentially lead the league in receptions?

Any of them if their quarterback threw them a ton of swing passes.Receptions for a running back aren't the same as receptions for a receiver. Because of Bush's struggles at the line of scrimmage, the Saints are choosing to throw him passes in order to get him into space. It's not like he's running twenty yard out patterns.Running back receptions are about as relevent as running back carries. It's teh offensive coordinator trying to get the guy productive touches.

There seems to be an inherent contradiction in your statements in this thread. On the one hand, you say that the Saints are benefitting from using Bush to keep entire defenses off balance to free up the rest of the offense. On the other hand, you think Bush is a very average NFL RB. I am not aware of any average NFL RBs that individually command so much attention that it loosens defenses for everybody else.I agree that Bush is overhyped. I agree that Bush is not performing statistically the way that many hoped. But the reality is that Bush is not average or mediocre or ordinary by any normal measure except pure individual statistics at this point. I have watched every Saints game this year and it is clear to me that defenses key on Bush every time he is in the game, as a receiver or as an RB. There is nobody else that is commanding that level of attention, including Deuce or Brees. Thus, those guys are having very good statistical years. Deuce has always been a hard, talented runner, but for the past several years, defenses just keyed on him every play. That has changed and now Deuce, in the first year back from an ACL injury, is doing great because he has room to run. That room is being provided by opposing defenses focusing most of their attention on Bush.

 

[x260bm]

The way the Saints use Reggie Bush to keep the defense on their toes has been working very effectively.Dante Hall is another fast, shifty back with good hands.Is there a reason that the Chiefs don't line Hall up in the slot and throw him little dump passes and let him use his speed and moves?Like the Saints do with Bush, they could still let him return punts, but it seems his long ball threat is going to waste when he's not incorporated in the offense more.

1. He has not lined up in the backfield in 5 years.2. The only thing he does on offense is line up in the slot.3. Little dump off passes generally don't work out well for him because he is really easy to bump off his routes and defenses don't give him any room.4. He is only useful on reverses and when he can find a hole in the zone.

 

[shadow2k]

First off, Dante Hall doesn't have great hands. He used to drop a lot of balls, but has gotten better in that respect (maybe). That's why he's gotten a little bit more involved each year. But the main reason they always limited him in the offense in the past was that they wanted to keep him fresh for returns. They see him as being the most valuable on special teams, so they don't want to wear him down playing offense at a position he doesn't excel at.

They don't line him up in the backfield because he isn't a running back. It's not the same thing.

 

[helix]

I agree that Bush is a very average NFL running back. That being said, New Orleans is still doing a great job of utilizing what he is, a very quick guy with good hands. It keeps defenses on their toes, even if he's not a part of the play.

He has had 53 carries over 5 games for the year....just a little to early to call him an average NFL running back. How many other RB's have could potentially lead the league in receptions?

I'll take a RB that leads the league in receptions and can win games with a punt return for a td all day. I don't think that is an average back. There is more to this than straight statistics. Why do you think Deuce and Colston have been so effective? Teams are playing Bush tight and therefore there are lanes open for other players. Toss in a QB that is not a complete bonehead and you have 4-1. And back to the original post, Hall is not half the player Bush is. Maybe as a punt returner, but that is about it.

 

[bullitt]

First off, Dante Hall doesn't have great hands. He used to drop a lot of balls, but has gotten better in that respect (maybe).

 

[cstu]

The difference is that Bush could be a starting WR on almost any team in the NFL - that's why he's making an impact for the Saints. It's not his running that teams fear, it's his receiving. I think teams would prefer him to be at RB rather than lining up in the slot or in motion where he's a huge mismatch for a LB or nickel back.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

But don't tell me that that's the reason why McAllister is a good runner. He always has been. Don't tell me that is why Brees is being successful either ...

He is not the entire reason, but he a big part of it. Less focus on McAllister and Brees and more on Bush, means more numbers for McAllister and Brees. To agrue against that is just being stuborn.

Comments like this make me scratch my head. Bush gets credit for McAllister and Brees' success because he is demanding attention but McAllister gets no credit for pounding the ball up the middle and demanding attention in the box to free up Reggie. Wake up everyone, it all works off each other. If there was no rushing game Reggie might not be leading the league in receptions. If Colston wasn't making such an i mpact as a rookie and defenses didn't have to account for him Bush would see more coverage and might not be leading the league in receptions. If Aaron Brooks was the QB of this team instead of Brees, Bush DEFINITELY would not be leading the league in receptions. It all works off each other very well right now and the coaching staff is using the talent that he has been given very efficiently. It is idiotic to give all the credit (or even most) to one player., or not give any credit to some other players.

 

[JuniorNB]

But don't tell me that that's the reason why McAllister is a good runner. He always has been. Don't tell me that is why Brees is being successful either ...

He is not the entire reason, but he a big part of it. Less focus on McAllister and Brees and more on Bush, means more numbers for McAllister and Brees. To agrue against that is just being stuborn.

Comments like this make me scratch my head. Bush gets credit for McAllister and Brees' success because he is demanding attention but McAllister gets no credit for pounding the ball up the middle and demanding attention in the box to free up Reggie. Wake up everyone, it all works off each other. If there was no rushing game Reggie might not be leading the league in receptions. If Colston wasn't making such an i mpact as a rookie and defenses didn't have to account for him Bush would see more coverage and might not be leading the league in receptions. If Aaron Brooks was the QB of this team instead of Brees, Bush DEFINITELY would not be leading the league in receptions. It all works off each other very well right now and the coaching staff is using the talent that he has been given very efficiently. It is idiotic to give all the credit (or even most) to one player., or not give any credit to some other players.

Bush is responsible for every yard the Saints gain all year.I actually think that USC's success this year is partially due to defenses still being wary of Bush's presence.And Andre Johnson's success for the Texans is because a lot of opposing teams refuse to believe they passed on Bush and they are looking around the field for him.

 

[Sidewinder]

Comments like this make me scratch my head. Bush gets credit for McAllister and Brees' success because he is demanding attention but McAllister gets no credit for pounding the ball up the middle and demanding attention in the box to free up Reggie. Wake up everyone, it all works off each other. If there was no rushing game Reggie might not be leading the league in receptions. ...

Don't take this wrong, but there is simply no way you've watched the Saints play this year (or probably more correctly, any significant amount) if you think this.Teams are not putting an extra man in the box to take away Deuce, because they are using that extra man to spy on Bush. But there is no way that the spy can affect the number of receptions because a large number of them are really nothing more than extended handoffs. What it does affect is his YPC. Put the extra man in the box to account for McAllister, Deuce's yardage would decline, but you'd see Bush's YPC go up significantly.

 

[zdaddy]

But don't tell me that that's the reason why McAllister is a good runner. He always has been. Don't tell me that is why Brees is being successful either ...

He is not the entire reason, but he a big part of it. Less focus on McAllister and Brees and more on Bush, means more numbers for McAllister and Brees. To agrue against that is just being stuborn.

Comments like this make me scratch my head. Bush gets credit for McAllister and Brees' success because he is demanding attention but McAllister gets no credit for pounding the ball up the middle and demanding attention in the box to free up Reggie. Wake up everyone, it all works off each other. If there was no rushing game Reggie might not be leading the league in receptions. If Colston wasn't making such an i mpact as a rookie and defenses didn't have to account for him Bush would see more coverage and might not be leading the league in receptions. If Aaron Brooks was the QB of this team instead of Brees, Bush DEFINITELY would not be leading the league in receptions. It all works off each other very well right now and the coaching staff is using the talent that he has been given very efficiently. It is idiotic to give all the credit (or even most) to one player., or not give any credit to some other players.

Reggie Bush, I beleive would be having this type of success where ever he landed (except maybe Oakland.) And in doing so, would increase the production of the players around him. If Reggie Bush went to Clevland, I think Droughns would see a nice boost in his numbers, as would Charlie Fry. If Duece McAllister or Colston went to Cleveland, I don't think think Harrison's or Writes numbers boost at all.

 

[Miscellaneous]

Bush is responsible for every yard the Saints gain all year.I actually think that USC's success this year is partially due to defenses still being wary of Bush's presence.And Andre Johnson's success for the Texans is because a lot of opposing teams refuse to believe they passed on Bush and they are looking around the field for him.

Now THAT'S funny. Dancing Bear and his unbridled hatred of Reggie-hype are getting old, but this was funny. Nicely done.