Why is there always discrimination? (1 Viewer)

[EYLive]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

 

[Jim11]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

Yes, it's really troubling that white males would feel resentment towards AA just because less qualified people are being favored.

Raising an interesting question: who's less qualified than Jim11?

Yawn. Another ad hominem...'bout all y'all got, eh?

It's a valid question.

Yes, my question is quite valid. Thanks for your support.

You don't qualify for my support.

Thanks again, Drummer; I know you're a big fan.

 

[drummer]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

Yes, it's really troubling that white males would feel resentment towards AA just because less qualified people are being favored.

Raising an interesting question: who's less qualified than Jim11?

Yawn. Another ad hominem...'bout all y'all got, eh?

It's a valid question.

Yes, my question is quite valid. Thanks for your support.

You don't qualify for my support.

Thanks again, Drummer; I know you're a big fan.

...'bout all y'all got, eh?

 

[joffer]

USA just keeps discriminating and now we have a new form of discrimination, punishing people for things their ancestors or grandparents have done, not even them.

How are we suppose to progress as a nation when we have ridiculous racist #### like affirmative action going on? Look what affirmative action has given us, the worst president of all time, and it looks like we might be getting another terrible president (clinton) due to more affirmative action. This country is starting to rot, because its about punishing innocent people and promoting people undeserving because of the past.

Hard to imagine being this stupid

 

[squistion]

USA just keeps discriminating and now we have a new form of discrimination, punishing people for things their ancestors or grandparents have done, not even them.

How are we suppose to progress as a nation when we have ridiculous racist #### like affirmative action going on? Look what affirmative action has given us, the worst president of all time, and it looks like we might be getting another terrible president (clinton) due to more affirmative action. This country is starting to rot, because its about punishing innocent people and promoting people undeserving because of the past.

Hard to imagine being this stupid

Have you read any of Jim11's threads?

 

[Jim11]

'bout all I need with a fan like you, Drummer

 

[drummer]

'bout all I need with a fan like you, Drummer

I do what I can for white people during these challenging times for them.

 

[gianmarco]

It's almost as if these threads write themselves.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

It's almost as if these threads write themselves.

Conservabots?

 

[johnjohn]

A lot of nasty responses in this thread

 

[drummer]

A lot of nasty responses in this thread

You got what you wanted

 

[squistion]

A lot of nasty responses in this thread

Amazing after you said this:

we have ridiculous racist #### like affirmative action going on

 

[Eephus]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

You're wrong. Proposition 209 prohibited this in 1996.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

The bolded part is undeniably true. You can dig around in some threads from 2008 to find people in this forum who supported Obama, in part, because he is black. I also personally know a handful of people (my MIL is one), who support Hillary Clinton -- again in part -- because she is female.

My sample is not representative, but I know more people who dislike Obama in part because he is black* than I do people who like him for that reason.

I would not say that black presidential candidates, on the whole, have an advantage over white candidates.

___

*They wouldn't give that reason, but to me it's fairly obvious. My subjective opinion.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

National Review article. I didn't see the Intelligence Squared debate. Might be interesting.

 

[Christo]

 

[DiStefano]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

You're wrong. Proposition 209 prohibited this in 1996.

Which is why the California legislature wanted to overturn Prop 209. And then, surprise, they found that the Asian American representatives were going to fight their initiative.

 

[bigbottom]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

Interestingly, Asians are 39% of the student body at UC Berkeley. Whites are the next demographic at 29%. Hispanics are at 13% and African-Americans are at 3%. Asians are more than 50% bigger than the next largest ethnic group on campus.

At UCLA, Asians are nearly 35% of the student body. Whites are again the next largest demographic at almost 28% (Hispanic at 18%, African-American at 4%).

 

[timschochet]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

Interestingly, Asians are 39% of the student body at UC Berkeley. Whites are the next demographic at 29%. Hispanics are at 13% and African-Americans are at 3%. Asians are more than 50% bigger than the next largest ethnic group on campus. At UCLA, Asians are nearly 35% of the student body. Whites are again the next largest demographic at almost 28% (Hispanic at 18%, African-American at 4%).

If you ever get to see what the primary schools, middle schools, and high schools are like in areas which are mostly black and Hispanic, this wouldn't be a question in anyone's mind. Those schools are a national embarrassment.

 

[jon_mx]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

Interestingly, Asians are 39% of the student body at UC Berkeley. Whites are the next demographic at 29%. Hispanics are at 13% and African-Americans are at 3%. Asians are more than 50% bigger than the next largest ethnic group on campus. At UCLA, Asians are nearly 35% of the student body. Whites are again the next largest demographic at almost 28% (Hispanic at 18%, African-American at 4%).

If you ever get to see what the primary schools, middle schools, and high schools are like in areas which are mostly black and Hispanic, this wouldn't be a question in anyone's mind. Those schools are a national embarrassment.

Whose fault is that? Part of it can be blamed on poverty but at some point people have to take some responsibilities for their communities being so crappy. Asian come here with nothing and within a few years most have gotten out of poverty and are prosperous. Is it because the white man likes Asians better than blacks and Hispanics.

 

[timschochet]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

Interestingly, Asians are 39% of the student body at UC Berkeley. Whites are the next demographic at 29%. Hispanics are at 13% and African-Americans are at 3%. Asians are more than 50% bigger than the next largest ethnic group on campus. At UCLA, Asians are nearly 35% of the student body. Whites are again the next largest demographic at almost 28% (Hispanic at 18%, African-American at 4%).

If you ever get to see what the primary schools, middle schools, and high schools are like in areas which are mostly black and Hispanic, this wouldn't be a question in anyone's mind. Those schools are a national embarrassment.

Whose fault is that? Part of it can be blamed on poverty but at some point people have to take some responsibilities for their communities being so crappy. Asian come here with nothing and within a few years most have gotten out of poverty and are prosperous. Is it because the white man likes Asians better than blacks and Hispanics.

I get tired of hearing this stuff frankly. I've been hearing it from conservatives my entire life. First off, most Asians don't come to this country with nothing. Most have families already here with money to share for new businesses. Most are eagerly accepted into upper middle class white suburban neighborhoods like the one I live in, while most Blacks and Latinos continue to be treated with distrust and hostility. In the case of Blacks, the family dysfunction which plays a large part in their failures in education is a direct result of centuries of slavery followed by another century of terrible discrimination. At the very very least, we owe them better schools.

 

[Dr Oadi]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

Interestingly, Asians are 39% of the student body at UC Berkeley. Whites are the next demographic at 29%. Hispanics are at 13% and African-Americans are at 3%. Asians are more than 50% bigger than the next largest ethnic group on campus. At UCLA, Asians are nearly 35% of the student body. Whites are again the next largest demographic at almost 28% (Hispanic at 18%, African-American at 4%).

If you ever get to see what the primary schools, middle schools, and high schools are like in areas which are mostly black and Hispanic, this wouldn't be a question in anyone's mind. Those schools are a national embarrassment.

Whose fault is that? Part of it can be blamed on poverty but at some point people have to take some responsibilities for their communities being so crappy. Asian come here with nothing and within a few years most have gotten out of poverty and are prosperous. Is it because the white man likes Asians better than blacks and Hispanics.

I get tired of hearing this stuff frankly. I've been hearing it from conservatives my entire life. First off, most Asians don't come to this country with nothing. Most have families already here with money to share for new businesses. Most are eagerly accepted into upper middle class white suburban neighborhoods like the one I live in, while most Blacks and Latinos continue to be treated with distrust and hostility. In the case of Blacks, the family dysfunction which plays a large part in their failures in education is a direct result of centuries of slavery followed by another century of terrible discrimination. At the very very least, we owe them better schools.

Who is we?

 

[timschochet]

All of us who pay taxes.

 

[bigbottom]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

Interestingly, Asians are 39% of the student body at UC Berkeley. Whites are the next demographic at 29%. Hispanics are at 13% and African-Americans are at 3%. Asians are more than 50% bigger than the next largest ethnic group on campus. At UCLA, Asians are nearly 35% of the student body. Whites are again the next largest demographic at almost 28% (Hispanic at 18%, African-American at 4%).

If you ever get to see what the primary schools, middle schools, and high schools are like in areas which are mostly black and Hispanic, this wouldn't be a question in anyone's mind. Those schools are a national embarrassment.

Whose fault is that? Part of it can be blamed on poverty but at some point people have to take some responsibilities for their communities being so crappy. Asian come here with nothing and within a few years most have gotten out of poverty and are prosperous. Is it because the white man likes Asians better than blacks and Hispanics.

I get tired of hearing this stuff frankly. I've been hearing it from conservatives my entire life. First off, most Asians don't come to this country with nothing. Most have families already here with money to share for new businesses. Most are eagerly accepted into upper middle class white suburban neighborhoods like the one I live in, while most Blacks and Latinos continue to be treated with distrust and hostility. In the case of Blacks, the family dysfunction which plays a large part in their failures in education is a direct result of centuries of slavery followed by another century of terrible discrimination. At the very very least, we owe them better schools.

Interesting comment re: the bolded. No distrust and hostility in the suburban neighborhoods where I live. I guess California isn't as enlightened and progressive as they claim to be.

 

[jon_mx]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

Interestingly, Asians are 39% of the student body at UC Berkeley. Whites are the next demographic at 29%. Hispanics are at 13% and African-Americans are at 3%. Asians are more than 50% bigger than the next largest ethnic group on campus.At UCLA, Asians are nearly 35% of the student body. Whites are again the next largest demographic at almost 28% (Hispanic at 18%, African-American at 4%).

If you ever get to see what the primary schools, middle schools, and high schools are like in areas which are mostly black and Hispanic, this wouldn't be a question in anyone's mind. Those schools are a national embarrassment.

Whose fault is that? Part of it can be blamed on poverty but at some point people have to take some responsibilities for their communities being so crappy. Asian come here with nothing and within a few years most have gotten out of poverty and are prosperous. Is it because the white man likes Asians better than blacks and Hispanics.

I get tired of hearing this stuff frankly. I've been hearing it from conservatives my entire life. First off, most Asians don't come to this country with nothing. Most have families already here with money to share for new businesses. Most are eagerly accepted into upper middle class white suburban neighborhoods like the one I live in, while most Blacks and Latinos continue to be treated with distrust and hostility.In the case of Blacks, the family dysfunction which plays a large part in their failures in education is a direct result of centuries of slavery followed by another century of terrible discrimination. At the very very least, we owe them better schools.

I know tons of Asians, and many of them did come here with nothing and knew nobody. I know many who were boat people and came here with nothing but a toothbrush. And everyone of them got an education or started a business or did something to get ahead.

 

[avoiding injuries]

If I didn't study enough, I would always try to sit close to an Asian.

 

[timschochet]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

Interestingly, Asians are 39% of the student body at UC Berkeley. Whites are the next demographic at 29%. Hispanics are at 13% and African-Americans are at 3%. Asians are more than 50% bigger than the next largest ethnic group on campus. At UCLA, Asians are nearly 35% of the student body. Whites are again the next largest demographic at almost 28% (Hispanic at 18%, African-American at 4%).

If you ever get to see what the primary schools, middle schools, and high schools are like in areas which are mostly black and Hispanic, this wouldn't be a question in anyone's mind. Those schools are a national embarrassment.

Whose fault is that? Part of it can be blamed on poverty but at some point people have to take some responsibilities for their communities being so crappy. Asian come here with nothing and within a few years most have gotten out of poverty and are prosperous. Is it because the white man likes Asians better than blacks and Hispanics.

I get tired of hearing this stuff frankly. I've been hearing it from conservatives my entire life. First off, most Asians don't come to this country with nothing. Most have families already here with money to share for new businesses. Most are eagerly accepted into upper middle class white suburban neighborhoods like the one I live in, while most Blacks and Latinos continue to be treated with distrust and hostility. In the case of Blacks, the family dysfunction which plays a large part in their failures in education is a direct result of centuries of slavery followed by another century of terrible discrimination. At the very very least, we owe them better schools.

Interesting comment re: the bolded. No distrust and hostility in the suburban neighborhoods where I live. I guess California isn't as enlightened and progressive as they claim to be.

Well, I live in Orange County.

 

[DiStefano]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

Interestingly, Asians are 39% of the student body at UC Berkeley. Whites are the next demographic at 29%. Hispanics are at 13% and African-Americans are at 3%. Asians are more than 50% bigger than the next largest ethnic group on campus.At UCLA, Asians are nearly 35% of the student body. Whites are again the next largest demographic at almost 28% (Hispanic at 18%, African-American at 4%).

If you ever get to see what the primary schools, middle schools, and high schools are like in areas which are mostly black and Hispanic, this wouldn't be a question in anyone's mind. Those schools are a national embarrassment.

Whose fault is that? Part of it can be blamed on poverty but at some point people have to take some responsibilities for their communities being so crappy. Asian come here with nothing and within a few years most have gotten out of poverty and are prosperous. Is it because the white man likes Asians better than blacks and Hispanics.

I get tired of hearing this stuff frankly. I've been hearing it from conservatives my entire life. First off, most Asians don't come to this country with nothing. Most have families already here with money to share for new businesses. Most are eagerly accepted into upper middle class white suburban neighborhoods like the one I live in, while most Blacks and Latinos continue to be treated with distrust and hostility.In the case of Blacks, the family dysfunction which plays a large part in their failures in education is a direct result of centuries of slavery followed by another century of terrible discrimination. At the very very least, we owe them better schools.

I know tons of Asians, and many of them did come here with nothing and knew nobody. I know many who were boat people and came here with nothing but a toothbrush. And everyone of them got an education or started a business or did something to get ahead.

They do better than whites. So it's obvious that they must all start out with better opportunities than whites, according to Tim's reasoning.

 

[timschochet]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

Interestingly, Asians are 39% of the student body at UC Berkeley. Whites are the next demographic at 29%. Hispanics are at 13% and African-Americans are at 3%. Asians are more than 50% bigger than the next largest ethnic group on campus.At UCLA, Asians are nearly 35% of the student body. Whites are again the next largest demographic at almost 28% (Hispanic at 18%, African-American at 4%).

If you ever get to see what the primary schools, middle schools, and high schools are like in areas which are mostly black and Hispanic, this wouldn't be a question in anyone's mind. Those schools are a national embarrassment.

Whose fault is that? Part of it can be blamed on poverty but at some point people have to take some responsibilities for their communities being so crappy. Asian come here with nothing and within a few years most have gotten out of poverty and are prosperous. Is it because the white man likes Asians better than blacks and Hispanics.

I get tired of hearing this stuff frankly. I've been hearing it from conservatives my entire life. First off, most Asians don't come to this country with nothing. Most have families already here with money to share for new businesses. Most are eagerly accepted into upper middle class white suburban neighborhoods like the one I live in, while most Blacks and Latinos continue to be treated with distrust and hostility.In the case of Blacks, the family dysfunction which plays a large part in their failures in education is a direct result of centuries of slavery followed by another century of terrible discrimination. At the very very least, we owe them better schools.

I know tons of Asians, and many of them did come here with nothing and knew nobody. I know many who were boat people and came here with nothing but a toothbrush. And everyone of them got an education or started a business or did something to get ahead.

And there are plenty like that and more power to them. Doesn't change the truth of anything I wrote though.

 

[avoiding injuries]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

Interestingly, Asians are 39% of the student body at UC Berkeley. Whites are the next demographic at 29%. Hispanics are at 13% and African-Americans are at 3%. Asians are more than 50% bigger than the next largest ethnic group on campus.At UCLA, Asians are nearly 35% of the student body. Whites are again the next largest demographic at almost 28% (Hispanic at 18%, African-American at 4%).

If you ever get to see what the primary schools, middle schools, and high schools are like in areas which are mostly black and Hispanic, this wouldn't be a question in anyone's mind. Those schools are a national embarrassment.

Whose fault is that? Part of it can be blamed on poverty but at some point people have to take some responsibilities for their communities being so crappy. Asian come here with nothing and within a few years most have gotten out of poverty and are prosperous. Is it because the white man likes Asians better than blacks and Hispanics.

I get tired of hearing this stuff frankly. I've been hearing it from conservatives my entire life. First off, most Asians don't come to this country with nothing. Most have families already here with money to share for new businesses. Most are eagerly accepted into upper middle class white suburban neighborhoods like the one I live in, while most Blacks and Latinos continue to be treated with distrust and hostility.In the case of Blacks, the family dysfunction which plays a large part in their failures in education is a direct result of centuries of slavery followed by another century of terrible discrimination. At the very very least, we owe them better schools.

I know tons of Asians, and many of them did come here with nothing and knew nobody. I know many who were boat people and came here with nothing but a toothbrush. And everyone of them got an education or started a business or did something to get ahead.

And there are plenty like that and more power to them. Doesn't change the truth of anything I wrote though.

Your post seems more anecdotal than "truth".

 

[jon_mx]

What's sad is that millions of Americans agree with JohnJohn.

What is sad you always over-generalize, which is kind of ironic.

All right let me be specific: there are millions of white, male Ameircans who resent Affirmative Action intensely, who are sick and tired of hearing about the struggles of blacks, Latinos, and women in our society, and who believe the elevation of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton has at least something to with him being black and her being a woman. Now is what I wrote the truth, or am I over/generalizing?

It's not just white guys. Smart Asian (male and female) students are being passed over in the university of California admissions system in favor of dumber ethnic minorities.

Interestingly, Asians are 39% of the student body at UC Berkeley. Whites are the next demographic at 29%. Hispanics are at 13% and African-Americans are at 3%. Asians are more than 50% bigger than the next largest ethnic group on campus.At UCLA, Asians are nearly 35% of the student body. Whites are again the next largest demographic at almost 28% (Hispanic at 18%, African-American at 4%).

If you ever get to see what the primary schools, middle schools, and high schools are like in areas which are mostly black and Hispanic, this wouldn't be a question in anyone's mind. Those schools are a national embarrassment.

Whose fault is that? Part of it can be blamed on poverty but at some point people have to take some responsibilities for their communities being so crappy. Asian come here with nothing and within a few years most have gotten out of poverty and are prosperous. Is it because the white man likes Asians better than blacks and Hispanics.

I get tired of hearing this stuff frankly. I've been hearing it from conservatives my entire life. First off, most Asians don't come to this country with nothing. Most have families already here with money to share for new businesses. Most are eagerly accepted into upper middle class white suburban neighborhoods like the one I live in, while most Blacks and Latinos continue to be treated with distrust and hostility.In the case of Blacks, the family dysfunction which plays a large part in their failures in education is a direct result of centuries of slavery followed by another century of terrible discrimination. At the very very least, we owe them better schools.

I know tons of Asians, and many of them did come here with nothing and knew nobody. I know many who were boat people and came here with nothing but a toothbrush. And everyone of them got an education or started a business or did something to get ahead.

And there are plenty like that and more power to them. Doesn't change the truth of anything I wrote though.

I missed the truth part. I don't think Asians are inherently accepted more by whites than blacks or Hispanics or that that is even plays any role in their success. I don't accept that most come here with lots of money and connections. Certainly some come here for college and have money, but that does not change why the poor ones succeed. Yeah, slavery and discrimination sucks, but at some point there needs to be some self-reflection and personal responsibility and not so much finger pointing and blaming history which has very little relevance to the world today.

 

[timschochet]

You accuse me of being anecdotal when I respond to Jon mx writing "I know tons of Asians"? LOL

 

[avoiding injuries]

He clearly posted his as such. You state your claims like they're facts and then call them the truth.

 

[timschochet]

Look, I always get sidetracked in these discussions and of course that's my own fault. So let me bottom line this: I think we should all be taxed more in order to improve public schools in bad areas like inner cities. I believe it is our collective responsibility to make these schools significantly better with better conditions and much improved pay for teachers. We have spent money on this in the past, but it's never been enough. We need to spend a TON of money on this.

If you disagree please explain why.

 

[Chaka]

Look, I always get sidetracked in these discussions and of course that's my own fault. So let me bottom line this: I think we should all be taxed more in order to improve public schools in bad areas like inner cities. I believe it is our collective responsibility to make these schools significantly better with better conditions and much improved pay for teachers. We have spent money on this in the past, but it's never been enough. We need to spend a TON of money on this.

If you disagree please explain why.

Because we need more tanks.

 

[jon_mx]

Look, I always get sidetracked in these discussions and of course that's my own fault. So let me bottom line this: I think we should all be taxed more in order to improve public schools in bad areas like inner cities. I believe it is our collective responsibility to make these schools significantly better with better conditions and much improved pay for teachers. We have spent money on this in the past, but it's never been enough. We need to spend a TON of money on this.

If you disagree please explain why.

Money is the least of their problems.

 

[DiStefano]

Look, I always get sidetracked in these discussions and of course that's my own fault. So let me bottom line this: I think we should all be taxed more in order to improve public schools in bad areas like inner cities. I believe it is our collective responsibility to make these schools significantly better with better conditions and much improved pay for teachers. We have spent money on this in the past, but it's never been enough. We need to spend a TON of money on this.

If you disagree please explain why.

Because we already spend more on education than any other country. Because throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily fix it. Because the teacher's unions fight tooth and nail against any efforts to bring accountability into education. Because they also fight tooth and nail against anything which has been shown to improve education, such as charter schools. Because it is virtually impossible to get rid of incompetent teachers. Because parent involvement and concern about education is probably the single greatest influence on the education of their children, and until such a change happens, the money spent is simply wasted.

 

[TxBuckeye]

Look, I always get sidetracked in these discussions and of course that's my own fault. So let me bottom line this: I think we should all be taxed more in order to improve public schools in bad areas like inner cities. I believe it is our collective responsibility to make these schools significantly better with better conditions and much improved pay for teachers. We have spent money on this in the past, but it's never been enough. We need to spend a TON of money on this.

If you disagree please explain why.

Why, so they'll be nicer stuff to steal when the kids break in? Putting up a shiny new school is step five or six in the process. You have to get the kids and parents interested in learning for their futures before it would even begin to make a lick of difference.

 

[timschochet]

Look, I always get sidetracked in these discussions and of course that's my own fault. So let me bottom line this: I think we should all be taxed more in order to improve public schools in bad areas like inner cities. I believe it is our collective responsibility to make these schools significantly better with better conditions and much improved pay for teachers. We have spent money on this in the past, but it's never been enough. We need to spend a TON of money on this.

If you disagree please explain why.

Because we already spend more on education than any other country. Because throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily fix it. Because the teacher's unions fight tooth and nail against any efforts to bring accountability into education. Because they also fight tooth and nail against anything which has been shown to improve education, such as charter schools. Because it is virtually impossible to get rid of incompetent teachers. Because parent involvement and concern about education is probably the single greatest influence on the education of their children, and until such a change happens, the money spent is simply wasted.

That more money that we spend on education than any other country never seems to get to the inner city.

 

[timschochet]

Look, I always get sidetracked in these discussions and of course that's my own fault. So let me bottom line this: I think we should all be taxed more in order to improve public schools in bad areas like inner cities. I believe it is our collective responsibility to make these schools significantly better with better conditions and much improved pay for teachers. We have spent money on this in the past, but it's never been enough. We need to spend a TON of money on this.

If you disagree please explain why.

Why, so they'll be nicer stuff to steal when the kids break in? Putting up a shiny new school is step five or six in the process. You have to get the kids and parents interested in learning for their futures before it would even begin to make a lick of difference.

How do you know this? Some of these schools are over 70 years old. They look like crap. Perhaps we should at least try improving them before making judgments about what will happen?

 

[jon_mx]

Among the schools GAO reviewed, differences in per-pupil spending between inner city and suburban schools varied across metropolitan areas, with inner city schools spending more in some metropolitan areas and suburban schools spending more in other areas. The inner city schools that GAO examined generally spent more per pupil than suburban schools in Boston, Chicago, and St. Louis, while in Fort Worth and New York the suburban schools in GAO's study almost always spent more per pupil than the inner city schools. In Denver and Oakland, spending differences between the selected inner city and suburban schools were mixed. In general, higher per-pupil expenditures at any given school were explained primarily by higher staff salaries regardless of whether the school was an inner city or suburban school. Two other explanatory factors were student-teacher ratios and ratios of students to student support staff, such as guidance counselors, nurses, and librarians. Federal funds are generally targeted to low-income areas to compensate for additional challenges faced by schools in those areas. In some cases, the infusion of federal funds balanced differences in per-pupil expenditures between the selected inner city and suburban schools. There is a broad consensus that poverty itself adversely affects academic achievement, and inner city students in the schools reviewed performed less well academically than students in the suburban schools. The disparity in achievement may also be related to several other differences identified in the characteristics of inner city and suburban schools. At the schools GAO visited, inner city schools generally had higher percentages of first-year teachers, higher enrollments, fewer library resources, and less in-school parental involvement--characteristics that some research has shown are related to school achievement.

It ain't spending.

 

[DiStefano]

Look, I always get sidetracked in these discussions and of course that's my own fault. So let me bottom line this: I think we should all be taxed more in order to improve public schools in bad areas like inner cities. I believe it is our collective responsibility to make these schools significantly better with better conditions and much improved pay for teachers. We have spent money on this in the past, but it's never been enough. We need to spend a TON of money on this.

If you disagree please explain why.

Because we already spend more on education than any other country. Because throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily fix it. Because the teacher's unions fight tooth and nail against any efforts to bring accountability into education. Because they also fight tooth and nail against anything which has been shown to improve education, such as charter schools. Because it is virtually impossible to get rid of incompetent teachers. Because parent involvement and concern about education is probably the single greatest influence on the education of their children, and until such a change happens, the money spent is simply wasted.

That more money that we spend on education than any other country never seems to get to the inner city.

So what makes you think that if we allocate more money, it will get to the inner city? Because the government is really efficient in spending taxpayer money? Because the unions won't grab most of it for all their teachers, because they are such a large voting block and spend so heavily on elections that the government shovels it to them? Get off the ivory tower and look at the real world.

 

[timschochet]

Among the schools GAO reviewed, differences in per-pupil spending between inner city and suburban schools varied across metropolitan areas, with inner city schools spending more in some metropolitan areas and suburban schools spending more in other areas. The inner city schools that GAO examined generally spent more per pupil than suburban schools in Boston, Chicago, and St. Louis, while in Fort Worth and New York the suburban schools in GAO's study almost always spent more per pupil than the inner city schools. In Denver and Oakland, spending differences between the selected inner city and suburban schools were mixed. In general, higher per-pupil expenditures at any given school were explained primarily by higher staff salaries regardless of whether the school was an inner city or suburban school. Two other explanatory factors were student-teacher ratios and ratios of students to student support staff, such as guidance counselors, nurses, and librarians. Federal funds are generally targeted to low-income areas to compensate for additional challenges faced by schools in those areas. In some cases, the infusion of federal funds balanced differences in per-pupil expenditures between the selected inner city and suburban schools. There is a broad consensus that poverty itself adversely affects academic achievement, and inner city students in the schools reviewed performed less well academically than students in the suburban schools. The disparity in achievement may also be related to several other differences identified in the characteristics of inner city and suburban schools. At the schools GAO visited, inner city schools generally had higher percentages of first-year teachers, higher enrollments, fewer library resources, and less in-school parental involvement--characteristics that some research has shown are related to school achievement.

It ain't spending.

Oh no? Read the last sentence of your post again. Why so many first year teachers? Because they don't make enough to work there so they leave as soon as they can. Why no library resources? Not to mention that your post doesnt account for the crumbling state of the schools themselves. And stop comparing how much we spend on these students compared to other students. The whole point is that children in poverty demand more of our resources, not an equal amount. It's pretty clear that whatever they're getting right now it's not enough. We can't force the parents to be better. But we can improve the schools and the reluctance to go so makes no sense to me.

Guess on this issue I'm just a liberal.

 

[timschochet]

Look, I always get sidetracked in these discussions and of course that's my own fault. So let me bottom line this: I think we should all be taxed more in order to improve public schools in bad areas like inner cities. I believe it is our collective responsibility to make these schools significantly better with better conditions and much improved pay for teachers. We have spent money on this in the past, but it's never been enough. We need to spend a TON of money on this.

If you disagree please explain why.

Because we already spend more on education than any other country. Because throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily fix it. Because the teacher's unions fight tooth and nail against any efforts to bring accountability into education. Because they also fight tooth and nail against anything which has been shown to improve education, such as charter schools. Because it is virtually impossible to get rid of incompetent teachers. Because parent involvement and concern about education is probably the single greatest influence on the education of their children, and until such a change happens, the money spent is simply wasted.

That more money that we spend on education than any other country never seems to get to the inner city.

So what makes you think that if we allocate more money, it will get to the inner city? Because the government is really efficient in spending taxpayer money? Because the unions won't grab most of it for all their teachers, because they are such a large voting block and spend so heavily on elections that the government shovels it to them? Get off the ivory tower and look at the real world.

All of the problem you describe are real enough. Is your solution to give up trying?

 

[Jim11]

Look, I always get sidetracked in these discussions and of course that's my own fault. So let me bottom line this: I think we should all be taxed more in order to improve public schools in bad areas like inner cities. I believe it is our collective responsibility to make these schools significantly better with better conditions and much improved pay for teachers. We have spent money on this in the past, but it's never been enough. We need to spend a TON of money on this.

If you disagree please explain why.

Because we already spend more on education than any other country. Because throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily fix it. Because the teacher's unions fight tooth and nail against any efforts to bring accountability into education. Because they also fight tooth and nail against anything which has been shown to improve education, such as charter schools. Because it is virtually impossible to get rid of incompetent teachers. Because parent involvement and concern about education is probably the single greatest influence on the education of their children, and until such a change happens, the money spent is simply wasted.

That more money that we spend on education than any other country never seems to get to the inner city.

So what makes you think that if we allocate more money, it will get to the inner city? Because the government is really efficient in spending taxpayer money? Because the unions won't grab most of it for all their teachers, because they are such a large voting block and spend so heavily on elections that the government shovels it to them? Get off the ivory tower and look at the real world.

All of the problem you describe are real enough. Is your solution to give up trying?

Look, I always get sidetracked in these discussions and of course that's my own fault. So let me bottom line this: I think we should all be taxed more in order to improve public schools in bad areas like inner cities. I believe it is our collective responsibility to make these schools significantly better with better conditions and much improved pay for teachers. We have spent money on this in the past, but it's never been enough. We need to spend a TON of money on this.

If you disagree please explain why.

Because we already spend more on education than any other country. Because throwing money at a problem doesn't necessarily fix it. Because the teacher's unions fight tooth and nail against any efforts to bring accountability into education. Because they also fight tooth and nail against anything which has been shown to improve education, such as charter schools. Because it is virtually impossible to get rid of incompetent teachers. Because parent involvement and concern about education is probably the single greatest influence on the education of their children, and until such a change happens, the money spent is simply wasted.

That more money that we spend on education than any other country never seems to get to the inner city.

So what makes you think that if we allocate more money, it will get to the inner city? Because the government is really efficient in spending taxpayer money? Because the unions won't grab most of it for all their teachers, because they are such a large voting block and spend so heavily on elections that the government shovels it to them? Get off the ivory tower and look at the real world.

All of the problem you describe are real enough. Is your solution to give up trying?

Jes*s Chr*st, you are so naive/ignorant/stubbron. DiStefano posted the definitive answer to your question.

 

[timschochet]

What Jim11 seems to regard as "the definitive answer" is: let's do nothing. We don't want to spend the money and it won't help anyhow. Sorry but I reject this response.

 

[jon_mx]

Among the schools GAO reviewed, differences in per-pupil spending between inner city and suburban schools varied across metropolitan areas, with inner city schools spending more in some metropolitan areas and suburban schools spending more in other areas. The inner city schools that GAO examined generally spent more per pupil than suburban schools in Boston, Chicago, and St. Louis, while in Fort Worth and New York the suburban schools in GAO's study almost always spent more per pupil than the inner city schools. In Denver and Oakland, spending differences between the selected inner city and suburban schools were mixed. In general, higher per-pupil expenditures at any given school were explained primarily by higher staff salaries regardless of whether the school was an inner city or suburban school. Two other explanatory factors were student-teacher ratios and ratios of students to student support staff, such as guidance counselors, nurses, and librarians. Federal funds are generally targeted to low-income areas to compensate for additional challenges faced by schools in those areas. In some cases, the infusion of federal funds balanced differences in per-pupil expenditures between the selected inner city and suburban schools. There is a broad consensus that poverty itself adversely affects academic achievement, and inner city students in the schools reviewed performed less well academically than students in the suburban schools. The disparity in achievement may also be related to several other differences identified in the characteristics of inner city and suburban schools. At the schools GAO visited, inner city schools generally had higher percentages of first-year teachers, higher enrollments, fewer library resources, and less in-school parental involvement--characteristics that some research has shown are related to school achievement.

It ain't spending.

Oh no? Read the last sentence of your post again. Why so many first year teachers? Because they don't make enough to work there so they leave as soon as they can. Why no library resources? Not to mention that your post doesnt account for the crumbling state of the schools themselves.And stop comparing how much we spend on these students compared to other students. The whole point is that children in poverty demand more of our resources, not an equal amount. It's pretty clear that whatever they're getting right now it's not enough. We can't force the parents to be better. But we can improve the schools and the reluctance to go so makes no sense to me.

Guess on this issue I'm just a liberal.

You want to know why there are so many first year teachers? Have you ever talked to someone who has ever taught in an inner city school? Most are scared for their life and for good reason. You could double the salary and many would not go back.

 

[Jim11]

What Jim11 seems to regard as "the definitive answer" is: let's do nothing. We don't want to spend the money and it won't help anyhow. Sorry but I reject this response

Unless the culture changes, this applies.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/throw+good+money+after+bad



to spend more money on something that has already failed If you try to fix that car, you'll simply be throwing good money after bad. There's got to be a better way to save our children than pouring good money after bad into government agencies.

 

[EYLive]

1. Thank goodness SCA 5 got shut down.

2. As usual, Tim is talking out of his ### again.

 

[EYLive]

Among the schools GAO reviewed, differences in per-pupil spending between inner city and suburban schools varied across metropolitan areas, with inner city schools spending more in some metropolitan areas and suburban schools spending more in other areas. The inner city schools that GAO examined generally spent more per pupil than suburban schools in Boston, Chicago, and St. Louis, while in Fort Worth and New York the suburban schools in GAO's study almost always spent more per pupil than the inner city schools. In Denver and Oakland, spending differences between the selected inner city and suburban schools were mixed. In general, higher per-pupil expenditures at any given school were explained primarily by higher staff salaries regardless of whether the school was an inner city or suburban school. Two other explanatory factors were student-teacher ratios and ratios of students to student support staff, such as guidance counselors, nurses, and librarians. Federal funds are generally targeted to low-income areas to compensate for additional challenges faced by schools in those areas. In some cases, the infusion of federal funds balanced differences in per-pupil expenditures between the selected inner city and suburban schools. There is a broad consensus that poverty itself adversely affects academic achievement, and inner city students in the schools reviewed performed less well academically than students in the suburban schools. The disparity in achievement may also be related to several other differences identified in the characteristics of inner city and suburban schools. At the schools GAO visited, inner city schools generally had higher percentages of first-year teachers, higher enrollments, fewer library resources, and less in-school parental involvement--characteristics that some research has shown are related to school achievement.

It ain't spending.

Oh no? Read the last sentence of your post again. Why so many first year teachers? Because they don't make enough to work there so they leave as soon as they can. Why no library resources? Not to mention that your post doesnt account for the crumbling state of the schools themselves.And stop comparing how much we spend on these students compared to other students. The whole point is that children in poverty demand more of our resources, not an equal amount. It's pretty clear that whatever they're getting right now it's not enough. We can't force the parents to be better. But we can improve the schools and the reluctance to go so makes no sense to me.

Guess on this issue I'm just a liberal.

You want to know why there are so many first year teachers? Have you ever talked to someone who has ever taught in an inner city school? Most are scared for their life and for good reason. You could double the salary and many would not go back.

I personally know 3. All three love their job and spend their own money purchasing school supplies for their students when the district and/or parents can't afford to provide for the kids. The money's not great, but you don't go into teaching public school to get rich.