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Why You Can Pencil In Ted Ginn Jr. For 70 Catches, 900 Yards And 6 TDs (1 Viewer)

JGalligan

Footballguy
With all the talk of Brett Favre this and Brett Favre that, the Dolphins sneaky-quick acquisition of Chad Pennington went relatively unnoticed. Can’t you just picture Bill Parcells shaking his head in disbelief that Pennington was basically placed in the teams lap? I sure can.

Now I’m not saying Chad Pennington is going to have some type of comeback year for the ages or anything, but I am saying he’s a perfectly capable QB that was the answer to the receiving corps prayers. Think about it. One of the following QB’s was currently slated to be slinging balls for the offense, and likely to the wrong team. Complete with career stats:

Josh McCown: 609 for 1052 (57.9%), 6582 yards, 35 TD’s, 40 INT’s. He is entering his seventh NFL season.

John Beck: 60 for 107 (56.1%), 559 yards, 1 TD, 3 INT’s. He is entering his second NFL season.

Chad Henne: Has not yet started an NFL game and would have to go through the necessary growing pains expected of rookie QB’s.

Could one of those players ended up having a good 2008? Absolutely. Would you want to put any type of money on that? I doubt it. Now, let’s take a look at the QB the world forgot about, Chad Pennington:

Chad Pennington: 1259 for 1919 (65.6%), 13738 yards, 82 TD’s, 55 INT’s. He is entering his ninth NFL season.

Uh, yeah. I’ll take Pennington, thanks.

Anyway, with that obvious but necessary piece out of the way, let’s take a look at Jerricho Cotchery’s stats the year he played a bit part on offense and wasn’t on the field too much.

Jerricho Cotchery

(2005): 19 receptions, 251 yards, 0 TD’s (12 games played, 1 game started)

Now, we know that Pennington was on the team in 2005, but Cotchery wasn’t given enough playing time to benefit from that. He was also still learning the intricacies of the WR position, with it being only his second year in the league and his first with some good, solid playing time. Let’s take a look at Ted Ginn Juniors stats in his first year in the league:

Ted Ginn Jr.

(2007): 34 receptions, 420 yards, 2 TD’s (16 games played, 9 games started)

It’s easy to see that Ginn had much more of a role in his rookie year than Cotchery had in his first two years in the NFL combined. Because of this, Ginn is likely well-entrenched in the verses of the WR position. Now let’s take a look at Cotchery’s first year with a starting role in the offense, one that formally introduced him to Chad Pennington.

Jerricho Cotchery

(2006): 82 receptions, 961 yards, 6 TD’s (16 games started)

Not bad. A lot of that can be attributed to Cotchery’s talent but couldn’t some of it also be placed on Pennington? Cotchery was targeted 125 times in 2006 and the ball managed to find itself safely in his hands 82 of those times. Pennington may be knocked for his lack of any kind of powerful arm, but the man is accurate. He’s completed nearly two thirds of his throws his entire career. All in all, I think it’s safe to assume that he’s a quality QB.

With Cotchery barely able to build a rapport with Pennington in 2005 due to the small amount of playing time, the two essentially built a connection throughout the 2006 season itself. Cotchery was also the second option for Pennington, with Laveranues Coles easily claiming the title of both WR1 and the QB’s favorite receiver.

Jumping back to the present, Ginn is the clear cut WR1 on a Dolphins offense that’s looking to begin moving forward after some serious off-season patch-up work. What does that mean? It means that Ginn will likely benefit from not only more targets (he had 71 last year), but also from a competent QB who can consistently throw the ball in his general vicinity.

Is it that much of a stretch to think that Ginn could put up similar numbers to what Cotchery churned out in 2006? No. It’s definitely not. The stretch would lie in how much better you think Ginn could do. Cotchery was targeted 125 times as the WR2 but also benefited from having a superb receiver lining up opposite of him in Laveranues Coles. Ginn saw 71 targets last year as a rookie and it was a year in which he didn’t get much playing time until Chris Chambers left before Week 7.

I would say that 125 targets for Ginn is a basement estimate. With reports that Ronnie Brown may have to start the season at a snails pace thanks to his finger injury, the Dolphins are sure to lean on Pennington until Brown returns. No offense to Ricky Williams since I’m sure he’ll contribute somewhat, but I want to see how he looks during an actual game that means something. The guy is 31 years old and not counting last years disappointing six attempt season, hasn’t played a substantial amount of time in the NFL in what’s now approaching three years. If thinking the Dolphins are going to pass a lot makes me crazy then so be it. I don’t want to be sane.

In the interests of being realistic and not allowing the predictions to get out of hand, I say it’s safe to pencil in Ginn for at least 130 targets. Please note the ‘at least’ part of that statement. Out of the 130 balls thrown to him, say 10 get called back by penalties or are nullified for whatever reason. Chad Pennington’s career completion percentage is 65.6% but we’ll give age and a change in living situation the benefit of the doubt here and say he’ll complete 60% of his passes this year. That’s probably the bare minimum. Add in a quick entrance from our friend the calculator and that leaves us with the following projection:

2008 Projection

Ted Ginn Jr: 130 targets, 72 receptions, 900 yards, 6 TD’s

And that is being GENEROUS with the negative outside factors. Barring some type of major injuries to Ginn himself, Pennington or the offensive line, that stat line could very easily be achieved by Ginn unless he’s managed to lose his football talent somehow during the off-season.

There you have it. A clear, easy-to-follow projection based on cold, hard stats and past occurrences. You may agree with how I did it or you may disagree. The important thing is that I hopefully just didn’t inform your entire league about Ted Ginn Jr. If so, uh.. he’s going to suck! Don’t draft him!

 
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Dolphin fans praising Chad are like KC fans when Herm first joined them. They have to see it for themselves.

Chad's "accuracy" myth is based on him always throwing to his check-down receiver (almost always a couple of yards short of the first down marker). His lobs are either under-thrown or high and the defender always hits the receiver a split-second after the catch.

That said, Chad is an upgrade to the tripe Miami had. Best case is for Henne to pick up the system quickly. I wouldn't be shocked to see Ginn average 56 yards per game. He might get 6 tds, but that probably includes kick/punt returns.

 
Very good analysis. :goodposting:

I'd be curious as to what effect you see that the differences is offensive philosophy between a Mangini/Brian Schottenheimer coaching staff and a Sparano/Henning staff would have on the move for Pennington for you seem to draw a direct comparison from Pennington's/Cotchery's success to the future success of Pennington/Ginn.

 
Dolphin fans praising Chad are like KC fans when Herm first joined them. They have to see it for themselves.Chad's "accuracy" myth is based on him always throwing to his check-down receiver (almost always a couple of yards short of the first down marker). His lobs are either under-thrown or high and the defender always hits the receiver a split-second after the catch. That said, Chad is an upgrade to the tripe Miami had. Best case is for Henne to pick up the system quickly. I wouldn't be shocked to see Ginn average 56 yards per game. He might get 6 tds, but that probably includes kick/punt returns.
Yeah, I may have reached a bit with the 6 TD's but I only did it because everything else was pretty conservative. I'm going to go on a limb and assume you live in New York and have watched Pennington play for a while. Aka: I definitely put a lot of stake into what you're saying. I'm a Patriots fan, so I seen him twice a year and although it wasn't much, I never went into a Jets game underestimating him. He just got the job done and he didn't make many mistakes.I didn't know about the accuracy myth and it obviously makes sense, but I'm still going to go with the belief that being upstaged by Favre and booted out of town will not sit right with him. I know the need for vengeance won't improve his check down problem, but I think he's going to have a solid and surprising year overall. Nothing Pro Bowl worthy but definitely something that in retrospect will have us wondering why we downplayed his talent so much.
 
:goodposting:

So I have this guy as my WR2 behind Braylon in a league where we get substantial return yards. Last year, Ginn got over 1,663 total return yards.

Just to let you know how valuable he is in a return yardage league.....

If he gets the stat line you projected here and gets at least the return yards he got last year, he would have a score that would have put him at WR#2 last year behind only Randy Moss. :lol:

2,500 all-purpose yards is just ridiculous.

 
Is it possible that Cotchery is better than Ginn?
Yes and I believe that to be true. Note how I didn't say anything about Cotchery's 2007? :goodposting: I think 2006 was a medicore/slightly above average year for Cotchery. Until Ginn can manage to pack on some more muscle and/or teleport into the future for a veteran understanding of the position, I think 900-1000 yards and 6 TD's is his ceiling for the time being.
 
Very good analysis. :goodposting: I'd be curious as to what effect you see that the differences is offensive philosophy between a Mangini/Brian Schottenheimer coaching staff and a Sparano/Henning staff would have on the move for Pennington for you seem to draw a direct comparison from Pennington's/Cotchery's success to the future success of Pennington/Ginn.
I don't think it's going to factor in too much since the Dolphins offense will likely be very conservative this year. I mean, it's hard to be aggressive without any actual (or healthy in Ronnie Browns case) weapons.
 
Is it possible that Cotchery is better than Ginn?
Yes and I believe that to be true. Note how I didn't say anything about Cotchery's 2007? :lmao: I think 2006 was a medicore/slightly above average year for Cotchery. Until Ginn can manage to pack on some more muscle and/or teleport into the future for a veteran understanding of the position, I think 900-1000 yards and 6 TD's is his ceiling for the time being.
I agree. And BTW, I didn't intend for my question to sound sarcastic, though reading it again it does look that way.I'll take a late flier on the kid, and keep my fingers crosses that those skinny twigs he runs on don't get snapped in two.
 
:lmao: So I have this guy as my WR2 behind Braylon in a league where we get substantial return yards. Last year, Ginn got over 1,663 total return yards.Just to let you know how valuable he is in a return yardage league.....If he gets the stat line you projected here and gets at least the return yards he got last year, he would have a score that would have put him at WR#2 last year behind only Randy Moss. :mellow:2,500 all-purpose yards is just ridiculous.
I don't know off-hand, but did he return both punts and kickoffs last year? If so, I can't see him doing both this year with such an increased role in the offense. He probably could, but to inappropriately reference Madden, I would have him do one or the other if I were in charge of the depth charts. And yes, I realize what is done in Madden is often radically different then how it is handled in the real world... but still!
 
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:lmao:

So I have this guy as my WR2 behind Braylon in a league where we get substantial return yards. Last year, Ginn got over 1,663 total return yards.

Just to let you know how valuable he is in a return yardage league.....

If he gets the stat line you projected here and gets at least the return yards he got last year, he would have a score that would have put him at WR#2 last year behind only Randy Moss. :mellow:

2,500 all-purpose yards is just ridiculous.
I don't know off-hand, but did he return both punts and kickoffs last year? If so, I can't see him doing both this year with such an increased role in the offense. He probably could, but to inappropriately reference Madden, I would have him do one or the other if I were in charge of the depth charts. And yes, I realize what is done in Madden is often radically different then how they are handled in the real world. But still.
He did last year and all indications are he will again. There has been absolutely no news of him not getting all returns. I know, I've tracked the heck out of it and Herman lists him as a dual returner in his returnerguys article posted today.Maybe the Phins are just trying to justify picking him so early by letting him touch the ball 20 times a game.....

 
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Is it possible that Cotchery is better than Ginn?
Yes and I believe that to be true. Note how I didn't say anything about Cotchery's 2007? :lmao: I think 2006 was a medicore/slightly above average year for Cotchery. Until Ginn can manage to pack on some more muscle and/or teleport into the future for a veteran understanding of the position, I think 900-1000 yards and 6 TD's is his ceiling for the time being.
I agree. And BTW, I didn't intend for my question to sound sarcastic, though reading it again it does look that way.I'll take a late flier on the kid, and keep my fingers crosses that those skinny twigs he runs on don't get snapped in two.
Nah, don't worry, it didn't come off as sarcastic at all. Although I was 110% positive someone would bring that up and was ready to provide an appropriate response. :mellow: But I definitely agree with you that he needs to bulk up some if he wants to be a legit #1.
 
:lmao:

So I have this guy as my WR2 behind Braylon in a league where we get substantial return yards. Last year, Ginn got over 1,663 total return yards.

Just to let you know how valuable he is in a return yardage league.....

If he gets the stat line you projected here and gets at least the return yards he got last year, he would have a score that would have put him at WR#2 last year behind only Randy Moss. :mellow:

2,500 all-purpose yards is just ridiculous.
I don't know off-hand, but did he return both punts and kickoffs last year? If so, I can't see him doing both this year with such an increased role in the offense. He probably could, but to inappropriately reference Madden, I would have him do one or the other if I were in charge of the depth charts. And yes, I realize what is done in Madden is often radically different then how they are handled in the real world. But still.
He did last year and all indications are he will again. There has been absolutely no news of him not getting all returns. I know, I've tracked the heck out of it and Herman lists him as a dual returner in his returnerguys article posted today.Maybe the Phins are just trying to justify picking him so early by letting him touch the ball 20 times a game.....
Well, he's been doing it for most of his career so I suppose we shouldn't worry too much about him being winded or anything. The biggest concern would be his increased change of injury. To paraphrase what Raider said a couple posts back, his body structure lends itself more to avoid being hit rather than constantly getting hit.
 
not saying ginn won't have a good season, but i don't think chad will necessarily be the reason if he does.

cotch was every bit as productive, if not more, with kellen clemens as the QB as he was with pennington.

cotch is also a very different WR than ginn, so comparisons are iffy.

i do think he'll have a nice season though. somebody's going to have to catch all those garbage time passes.

 
not saying ginn won't have a good season, but i don't think chad will necessarily be the reason if he does.cotch was every bit as productive, if not more, with kellen clemens as the QB as he was with pennington.cotch is also a very different WR than ginn, so comparisons are iffy.i do think he'll have a nice season though. somebody's going to have to catch all those garbage time passes.
Your right about Clemens, but then again, I'd also rank him heads and shoulders above the trio of QB's the Dolphins were planning to go to battle with. And while Cotchery definitely has a size advantage over Ginn, they're body types aren't radically different either. Cotchery has about 20 more pounds of muscle and that's it. That's sizable, I know, but Ginn could very well pack that much muscle on if he finds out he may need too.
 
I went back and looked at every Chad Pennington season since 2002 (when he took over as the starter in NY), to see how the #1 WR and #2 WR performed for FF purposes. I excluded the 2005 season, since Chad only played in 3 games, but I kept the 2003 and 2007 seasons when he started 9 and 8 games respectively.

Conclusions:

- On average, Chad's WR #1 has produced 1,087 yds and 5.6 TDs per season, equating to 142 FF points (standard scoring)

- Chad's WR #2 has produced 742 yds and 5.4 TDs per season, equating to 107 FF points

If you make the assumption that Ginn is Chad's #1 target in Miami, it isn't a stretch to assume that he produces 900 yds and 6 TDs, at a minimum.

 
:kicksrock: So I have this guy as my WR2 behind Braylon in a league where we get substantial return yards. Last year, Ginn got over 1,663 total return yards.Just to let you know how valuable he is in a return yardage league.....If he gets the stat line you projected here and gets at least the return yards he got last year, he would have a score that would have put him at WR#2 last year behind only Randy Moss. :thumbup:2,500 all-purpose yards is just ridiculous.
How much of a benefit? I grabbed him in a league where we get 1 pt per 30 return yards. But I'm counting on him as WR4 behind Holmes, White, and Driver. Given the mediocrity of that crew, I would love for the substantial return yards to turn him into a WR2 or WR1.
 
I'm going to play contrarian here. Two reasons to avoid ginn

5-10 185 lbs return man/receiver - best year receiving 40 catches, 727 yards, 5 tds 18.2 y/c

5-8 187 lbs return man/receiver - best year receiving 40 catches 423 yards, 1 td 10.6 y/c (or 34/436/3/12.8)

1. Desmond Howard

2. Dante Hall

Ginn's listed Height and weight makes him skinnier than either of these two, he is going to have to put on weight before I touch him.

 
I'm going to play contrarian here. Two reasons to avoid ginn5-10 185 lbs return man/receiver - best year receiving 40 catches, 727 yards, 5 tds 18.2 y/c5-8 187 lbs return man/receiver - best year receiving 40 catches 423 yards, 1 td 10.6 y/c (or 34/436/3/12.8)1. Desmond Howard2. Dante HallGinn's listed Height and weight makes him skinnier than either of these two, he is going to have to put on weight before I touch him.
:goodposting: It's hard to disagree with that, especially since I'm hoping Ginn will eventually pack on the muscle. It's either injury or his size that will hold him back from achieving the 900 yards and 6 TD's. I think he gets those 70 receptions regardless of the yardage or touchdowns, though.
 
I went back and looked at every Chad Pennington season since 2002 (when he took over as the starter in NY), to see how the #1 WR and #2 WR performed for FF purposes. I excluded the 2005 season, since Chad only played in 3 games, but I kept the 2003 and 2007 seasons when he started 9 and 8 games respectively.Conclusions:- On average, Chad's WR #1 has produced 1,087 yds and 5.6 TDs per season, equating to 142 FF points (standard scoring)- Chad's WR #2 has produced 742 yds and 5.4 TDs per season, equating to 107 FF pointsIf you make the assumption that Ginn is Chad's #1 target in Miami, it isn't a stretch to assume that he produces 900 yds and 6 TDs, at a minimum.
:goodposting:Even if you shoot somewhere in between that, it averages out to be about 910 yards and 5.5 TD's.
 
Ginn is listed at 5'11 180

I think his size or lack of it is being overrated, as many post before this have mentioned, there are several very good smallish wr'ers in the NFL. Yes, Steve Smith plays with much more intensity than any other wr in the game, but he is still only 5'9ish I don't care how pissed off he is. Marvin is thin and frail/weak looking not saying Ginn has either of those 2 wr's skills yet, but they didn't either in year 2, hell Smith didn't even start till his 3rd or 4th year I think.

There are many other's also, Holt, Bruce, Evans, Holmes, S. Moss, L. Coles, and so many more, that are all 5'8 - 6'0 180 - 200, I just think there is too much of a big deal made about a guys height and weight, if he has skill and heart (He obviously has speed) he will be fine. I have watched the 2 games since Pennington has been there and he looked good in both of them and looked like he had plenty of velocity on the ball, if anyone else was watching you saw several 15 - 20 yard strikes. If you watch most teams (Not NE or the Colts) they are not completing a lot of 20+ yard passes per game, I mean where the ball actually travels more than 20 yards down field, so many teams use a west coast style which has mostly timing based patterns.

To the OP, very nice post with some very good points.

For the comparison to Cotchery, personally I would take Ginn, he is clearly getting better as a wr and he adds a dimension that Cotchery can never add, game breaking speed.

 
Ginn is listed at 5'11 180I think his size or lack of it is being overrated, as many post before this have mentioned, there are several very good smallish wr'ers in the NFL. Yes, Steve Smith plays with much more intensity than any other wr in the game, but he is still only 5'9ish I don't care how pissed off he is. Marvin is thin and frail/weak looking not saying Ginn has either of those 2 wr's skills yet, but they didn't either in year 2, hell Smith didn't even start till his 3rd or 4th year I think. There are many other's also, Holt, Bruce, Evans, Holmes, S. Moss, L. Coles, and so many more, that are all 5'8 - 6'0 180 - 200, I just think there is too much of a big deal made about a guys height and weight, if he has skill and heart (He obviously has speed) he will be fine. I have watched the 2 games since Pennington has been there and he looked good in both of them and looked like he had plenty of velocity on the ball, if anyone else was watching you saw several 15 - 20 yard strikes. If you watch most teams (Not NE or the Colts) they are not completing a lot of 20+ yard passes per game, I mean where the ball actually travels more than 20 yards down field, so many teams use a west coast style which has mostly timing based patterns. To the OP, very nice post with some very good points. For the comparison to Cotchery, personally I would take Ginn, he is clearly getting better as a wr and he adds a dimension that Cotchery can never add, game breaking speed.
:goodposting: Those are some excellent examples. I didn't even think about seeing how many guys had a Ginn/Cotchery type frame. The whole size thing is comparable to many opinions immediately after the NFL Draft. Unless they were drafted in round four or above, most people think they're not going to pan out. If a player at any position is undersized, people are going to say he probably won't pan out despite tons of evidence to the contrary. The most important thing, I think, in regards to undersized players is to realize that they got to the NFL at that size. They obviously have some way or method of succeeding at their position if they have gotten this far. Sometimes it takes a couple of years for some players to really soak everything in and get acclimated to the pro game. Others succeed right off the bat. As for Cotchery/Ginn, I would take Cotchery as of right now. But if you were making me pick one of them for four to five years down the road, I very well might take Ginn. Although my conscience is willing me to say that I'd probably go with Cotchery though. So yeah, I'd go with him.
 
Is it possible that Cotchery is better than Ginn?
Yes and I believe that to be true. Note how I didn't say anything about Cotchery's 2007? :yes: I think 2006 was a medicore/slightly above average year for Cotchery. Until Ginn can manage to pack on some more muscle and/or teleport into the future for a veteran understanding of the position, I think 900-1000 yards and 6 TD's is his ceiling for the time being.
Hmm I drafted both Cotchery & Ginn in my main league. There was some cursing in the room when i took Ginn in round 9 hehe :kicksrock:
 
Is it possible that Cotchery is better than Ginn?
Yes and I believe that to be true. Note how I didn't say anything about Cotchery's 2007? :yes: I think 2006 was a medicore/slightly above average year for Cotchery. Until Ginn can manage to pack on some more muscle and/or teleport into the future for a veteran understanding of the position, I think 900-1000 yards and 6 TD's is his ceiling for the time being.
Hmm I drafted both Cotchery & Ginn in my main league. There was some cursing in the room when i took Ginn in round 9 hehe :kicksrock:
I think I got Ginn yesterday around the 12-14th round. I don't know what he'll do this year, but he's worth a shot at that point.
 
Hmm I drafted both Cotchery & Ginn in my main league. There was some cursing in the room when i took Ginn in round 9 hehe :goodposting:
I think I got Ginn yesterday around the 12-14th round. I don't know what he'll do this year, but he's worth a shot at that point.
He's went from an iffy, risk-pick to sleeper overnight! I'm planning on badmouthing him prior to my draft on Friday, though. Nobody in my league comes here so it should be easy to have them question the stuff they read in their magazines.
 
Cotchery is a talented WR....Ginn is a gimmick KR/PR... I'd be wary to extrapolate from one to the other. Successful short WRs like SSmiff, SMoss (for a year or two), Lav Coles... are heavier thicker in the legs type players... THey have all been boom/bust type players as well...

Ginn is a lottery ticket, i personally think his upside is limited given he is a 16.0+ ypc type guy and he has Chad Pennington throwing lollipops to him.

 
Mods - can we merge the two Ginn threads? Both threads are good but why not combine everything into one uber awesome Ginn lovefest?

 
:moneybag: So I have this guy as my WR2 behind Braylon in a league where we get substantial return yards. Last year, Ginn got over 1,663 total return yards.Just to let you know how valuable he is in a return yardage league.....If he gets the stat line you projected here and gets at least the return yards he got last year, he would have a score that would have put him at WR#2 last year behind only Randy Moss. :yes:2,500 all-purpose yards is just ridiculous.
How much of a benefit? I grabbed him in a league where we get 1 pt per 30 return yards. But I'm counting on him as WR4 behind Holmes, White, and Driver. Given the mediocrity of that crew, I would love for the substantial return yards to turn him into a WR2 or WR1.
We get 1/10 (same as rushing yards). We also get 1/5 receiving.I'm assuming safely that he gets 1,500 return yards this year (he had 1,663 last year). In your league, that's an additional 50 pts on the season, but in mine, its an additional 150.
 
The wildcard in all this might be Derek Hagan. I've heard a lot of good about him this summer, and he seems to fit the "possession, short route" WR you'd think Pennington would need.

 
make no mistakes the last 2 + weeks in practices and preseason games, ginn is pennington's guy......Pennington looks for him early and often. I think those projections are about right give or take a few yards/receptions and could be on the plus side if pennington hits the long ball. I think the noodle arm thing is overblown but not crazy talk either. The will have some great games together and some stinkers. I think Dodds is right about this guy and he is a steal late in the draft.

 
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The wildcard in all this might be Derek Hagan. I've heard a lot of good about him this summer, and he seems to fit the "possession, short route" WR you'd think Pennington would need.
Good point. Let's take a look at some stats, made possible by the one and only, Pro Football Reference: Derek Hagan

2006: 21 receptions, 221 yards, 1 TD

2007: 29 receptions, 373 yards, 2 TD's

Nothing that'll knock your socks off, but still pretty solid. Especially on what was considered over the past two years to be one of the worst offensive units in NFL history.

It's also worth noting that Hagan's QB's over those two years included: Joey Harrington, Cleo Lemon, Daunte Culpepper, Trent Green and John Beck. All of whom, save for Green and maybe Culpepper, weren't what you would call "high quality" quarterbacks.

Looking a couple years down the road, the Dolphins may turn out to have one of the best WR duo's in the league if everything pans out right.

 
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First of all, JGalligan, another strong post. Thanks for being a solid contributor to the boards. :whoosh: As a Ginn owner, I am happy to have him on my squad as my WR3.

From my rankings comments on Ginn - Ginn averaged just over 7 targets a game from week 11 to the end of the season last year. He is starting to crescendo to the point of being a solid WR3 for your fantasy roster this year. With the acquisition of an experienced QB in Chad Pennington, Ginn could very easily be Miami's version of Chad's favorite target in New York, Laveranues Coles. Ginn is a bit undersized, but the game is changing where WRs like him are beginning to flourish. As the clear #1 option in the passing game for Miami, Ginn could easily catch 65-70 balls this year with the possibility of more.

In his last pre-season game vs. the Chiefs, Ginn had four catches for 58 yards in the first half. Of course over a full game that equates to 8 rec, 116 yards. Not too shabby. Every year it seems like there's a player in the WR30-35 ranking that reaches the top 20. Last year it was Jennings. This year - it could very well be Ted Ginn. A lot will depend on the Dolphins offense and their ability to sustain drives. If they can improve in that facet of the game, Ginn could be a nice fixture on anyone's roster.

 
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First of all, JGalligan, another strong post. Thanks for being a solid contributor to the boards. :bag: As a Ginn owner, I am happy to have him on my squad as my WR3.

From my rankings comments on Ginn - Ginn averaged just over 7 targets a game from week 11 to the end of the season last year. He is starting to crescendo to the point of being a solid WR3 for your fantasy roster this year. With the acquisition of an experienced QB in Chad Pennington, Ginn could very easily be Miami's version of Chad's favorite target in New York, Laveranues Coles. Ginn is a bit undersized, but the game is changing where WRs like him are beginning to flourish. As the clear #1 option in the passing game for Miami, Ginn could easily catch 65-70 balls this year with the possibility of more.

In his last pre-season game vs. the Chiefs, Ginn had four catches for 58 yards in the first half. Of course over a full game that equates to 8 rec, 116 yards. Not too shabby. Every year it seems like there's a player in the WR30-35 ranking that reaches the top 20. Last year it was Jennings. This year - it could very well be Ted Ginn. A lot will depend on the Dolphins offense and their ability to sustain drives. If they can improve in that facet of the game, Ginn could be a nice fixture on anyone's roster.
First off, I counter your thanks with a thanks of my own for your quality feedback. :thumbup: You bring up a great point that I didn't think to touch on, that being whether Ginn is a WR4, WR3, or even WR2 in incredibly deep leagues. Just out of curiosity, how many total teams are in your league and how many WR's do you start?
 
First of all, JGalligan, another strong post. Thanks for being a solid contributor to the boards. :bag: As a Ginn owner, I am happy to have him on my squad as my WR3.

From my rankings comments on Ginn - Ginn averaged just over 7 targets a game from week 11 to the end of the season last year. He is starting to crescendo to the point of being a solid WR3 for your fantasy roster this year. With the acquisition of an experienced QB in Chad Pennington, Ginn could very easily be Miami's version of Chad's favorite target in New York, Laveranues Coles. Ginn is a bit undersized, but the game is changing where WRs like him are beginning to flourish. As the clear #1 option in the passing game for Miami, Ginn could easily catch 65-70 balls this year with the possibility of more.

In his last pre-season game vs. the Chiefs, Ginn had four catches for 58 yards in the first half. Of course over a full game that equates to 8 rec, 116 yards. Not too shabby. Every year it seems like there's a player in the WR30-35 ranking that reaches the top 20. Last year it was Jennings. This year - it could very well be Ted Ginn. A lot will depend on the Dolphins offense and their ability to sustain drives. If they can improve in that facet of the game, Ginn could be a nice fixture on anyone's roster.
First off, I counter your thanks with a thanks of my own for your quality feedback. :thumbup: You bring up a great point that I didn't think to touch on, that being whether Ginn is a WR4, WR3, or even WR2 in incredibly deep leagues. Just out of curiosity, how many total teams are in your league and how many WR's do you start?
12 teamer, start 3 WRs, no flex. PPR, semi-dynasty (2 keepers).
 
First of all, JGalligan, another strong post. Thanks for being a solid contributor to the boards. :football: As a Ginn owner, I am happy to have him on my squad as my WR3.

From my rankings comments on Ginn - Ginn averaged just over 7 targets a game from week 11 to the end of the season last year. He is starting to crescendo to the point of being a solid WR3 for your fantasy roster this year. With the acquisition of an experienced QB in Chad Pennington, Ginn could very easily be Miami's version of Chad's favorite target in New York, Laveranues Coles. Ginn is a bit undersized, but the game is changing where WRs like him are beginning to flourish. As the clear #1 option in the passing game for Miami, Ginn could easily catch 65-70 balls this year with the possibility of more.

In his last pre-season game vs. the Chiefs, Ginn had four catches for 58 yards in the first half. Of course over a full game that equates to 8 rec, 116 yards. Not too shabby. Every year it seems like there's a player in the WR30-35 ranking that reaches the top 20. Last year it was Jennings. This year - it could very well be Ted Ginn. A lot will depend on the Dolphins offense and their ability to sustain drives. If they can improve in that facet of the game, Ginn could be a nice fixture on anyone's roster.
First off, I counter your thanks with a thanks of my own for your quality feedback. :thumbup: You bring up a great point that I didn't think to touch on, that being whether Ginn is a WR4, WR3, or even WR2 in incredibly deep leagues. Just out of curiosity, how many total teams are in your league and how many WR's do you start?
12 teamer, start 3 WRs, no flex. PPR, semi-dynasty (2 keepers).
How much do you think the PPR factors into the WR3 rank? The reason being, I'm prepping for my draft on Thursday which is a 12 teamer, start 3 WR's and 1 flex. Unfortunately, it's not PPR until next year because of a 'vote for it this year, institute it next year' rule. Now I'm obviously not targeting him solely on what I think he will do, but I think he's going to be available at a pretty good value spot. It's a 5 maximum keeper league, so I'm trying to decide how much I should factor in the PPR for next year since I could potentially keep them.

Cutting right to the point: In that setup, for this year with it not being a PPR, do you think Ginn could make a strong case for the flex position? Or is he a lot more valuable when it's PPR? I'm trying to gauge how valuable he (and a multitude of others, obviously) could be this year without taking PPR into account, too. I think he definitely drops down as a riskier pick when taking that into account but wanted to see what you thought about it.

If only it were just PPR this year..

Stupid 1 year vote rule.. :no:

 
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How much do you think the PPR factors into the WR3 rank? The reason being, I'm prepping for my draft on Thursday which is a 12 teamer, start 3 WR's and 1 flex. Unfortunately, it's not PPR until next year because of a 'vote for it this year, institute it next year' rule.
Good question. What's the difference if its PPR or not? I definitely think Ginn is more valuable in a PPR format, but that's not to say he's worthless in a non-PPR league. Especially, if you think he'll score. Just to give you an indication on point value with and without PPRIn your estimate, Ginn will have 70 rec, 900 yds, 6 TDs

PPR: 196 pts. approx rank: 24th

non-PPR: 126 pts. approx rank: 25th

If you were to take away a couple TDs and keep the rest the same... 70 rec, 900 yds, 3 TD

PPR: 178 points, approx rank: 29th

non-PPR: 108 points, approx rank: 34th

The more TDs he scores, the closer the margin between PPR and non-PPR rank. So if he scores less, that margin of rank will increase, separating his PPR rank from his non-PPR rank.

 
How much do you think the PPR factors into the WR3 rank? The reason being, I'm prepping for my draft on Thursday which is a 12 teamer, start 3 WR's and 1 flex. Unfortunately, it's not PPR until next year because of a 'vote for it this year, institute it next year' rule.
Good question. What's the difference if its PPR or not? I definitely think Ginn is more valuable in a PPR format, but that's not to say he's worthless in a non-PPR league. Especially, if you think he'll score. Just to give you an indication on point value with and without PPRIn your estimate, Ginn will have 70 rec, 900 yds, 6 TDs

PPR: 196 pts. approx rank: 24th

non-PPR: 126 pts. approx rank: 25th

If you were to take away a couple TDs and keep the rest the same... 70 rec, 900 yds, 3 TD

PPR: 178 points, approx rank: 29th

non-PPR: 108 points, approx rank: 34th

The more TDs he scores, the closer the margin between PPR and non-PPR rank. So if he scores less, that margin of rank will increase, separating his PPR rank from his non-PPR rank.
That's actually not a big a drop as I was expecting.. but like you said, TD's will be the biggest factor and that's probably the category with the biggest chance to be underachieved. Thanks for the answer man, that definitely cleared up some things. Although I suppose I should be more worried about who to take with the 13th pick since the keeper situation has everything so muddled.

That's a discussion for another thread though, I'll stop going on a tangent.

 

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