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Will Eli Manning get into the HOF? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter chet
- Start date
Hang 10
Footballguy
Very misleading to compare stats from different eras. Marino was 10 x the passer Eli's been on his best day.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
He's a lock. Compiling numbers, two rings, major media market, and the Manning name.
Koya
Footballguy
FWIW, while I can't stand Pitt nor Big Ben, I'd have to give him the nod over Eli career wise.
And that includes the fact that he all but lost his team his first super bowl, but a ring is a ring.
That said, and acknowledging that Ben has finally appeared to mature, you wonder if he makes it in NY. It's a different media and everything world in the NY market. I think it's fair to say that Roeths early transgressions and general fear boy party day may have ended far worse had he been in NYC and not Pitt.
Doesnt change their respective careers, but it's fair to say the Giants made the right choice for thief franchise considering Eli is never fazed and has brought home 2 rings. Even with s better career perhaps, maybe Big Ben never adjusts or matures in the party Capitol limelight that is NY.
And that includes the fact that he all but lost his team his first super bowl, but a ring is a ring.
That said, and acknowledging that Ben has finally appeared to mature, you wonder if he makes it in NY. It's a different media and everything world in the NY market. I think it's fair to say that Roeths early transgressions and general fear boy party day may have ended far worse had he been in NYC and not Pitt.
Doesnt change their respective careers, but it's fair to say the Giants made the right choice for thief franchise considering Eli is never fazed and has brought home 2 rings. Even with s better career perhaps, maybe Big Ben never adjusts or matures in the party Capitol limelight that is NY.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Will he? Yes. Should he? I wouldnt vote him in. Ive never considered him one of the elite QBs of his era.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
The_Man
Footballguy
I think he is a slightly better than average QB. Also think he is a lock for the Hall of Fame. In addition to career stats mentioned above, he will tie Terry Bradshaw for #11 in all-time regular season wins with his next victory.
Among the 21 QBs with 7 or more career playoff wins, his .727 winning percentage (8-3) ranks 4th behind:
Starr .900
Bradshaw .737
Aikman .733
Along with Namath, he will become one of the least deserving players in the HOF.
Among the 21 QBs with 7 or more career playoff wins, his .727 winning percentage (8-3) ranks 4th behind:
Starr .900
Bradshaw .737
Aikman .733
Along with Namath, he will become one of the least deserving players in the HOF.
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Insoxicated
mr. furley
Footballguy
i did. i watched them beat a particular team at home in a game they had no business winning... i can't remember who that was but i do remember being black out angry afterwards
General Malaise
Footballguy
Most turnovers committed since 2004.
But he's in because of the Super Bowls. That's the difference maker. As it will be for Rothlisberger.
As for Plunkett, he was cut twice. That's a bigger mark against than any blemishes of other SB winning QBs.
But he's in because of the Super Bowls. That's the difference maker. As it will be for Rothlisberger.
As for Plunkett, he was cut twice. That's a bigger mark against than any blemishes of other SB winning QBs.
Dickies
Footballguy
This. I think Super Bowl rings are overvalued here. He maybe cracks the top 10 QBs in any given year and I don't think he has ever been a top 5 QB. His stats are inflated by rule changes that have opened up the passing game.
rockaction
Footballguy
Normally I disagree with your grumpiness, but I'm going to have to go with this as the correct answer.
Koya
Footballguy
That was not my point. The system was run and chuck it down the field. Not passer rating friendly... though I admit he's not an effecient QBToo bad he's not had all those stud receivers around him like Brady
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Your wording is a little confusing - at least to me - you are saying he's getting in? If you think he's not getting in then I'll wager $100
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
After all, he was Joe Flacco twice!
dgreen
Footballguy
In his 12 seasons as a full time starter (including 2016), he's top 10 in pass attempts 8 times. League average since then is 33.9 attempts per game. Eli is at 34.4.
Passer rating takes completion percentage, yards/attempt, TD percentage, and INT percentage into account. Having a heavy running game and reduced number of attempts (which he doesn't have) shouldn't have an affect on any of those. Chucking it down field would have a negative effect on completion percentage (which is pretty bad for Eli), but should positively affect his yards/attempt (which is nothing special). (Eli's yards per completion, which should be high if he's chucking it down field a lot is 11.9 compared to the league average of 10.8 since 2005). I have no theory on how it might affect TD and INT percentages. He seems to have a strong TD% and bad INT% throughout his career. So that might support the "chuck it" theory. I'm sure some site has stats on distance of passes downfield.
Koya
Footballguy
Honestly, I'm speaking 100% from watching this from 10 years, so it's completely anecdotal.
That said, you summed it up pretty well. He throws TDs and makes big plays (including when it matters most, at least during two historic SB runs). He also throws INTs and makes bonehead plays.
As stated above, he's not a HoFer in my opinion, as it stands now. But I can see why he's likely to get in. That said, he somehow becomes underrated, even understanding his deficiencies, imo. People love piling on, and his Phelps face doesn't help his cause.
That said, great leader, awesome community guy, never causes any trouble and has handled the scrutiny of NY like a true Champ. Honestly, there's no way I'd trade him for Roeths or Rivers. We made the right choice. Roeths, as mentioned before, may have succumbed to the partry scene and scrutiny that is NY and Rivers hasn't won ####, to be blunt. HoFer or not, the guy brought us two SBs that would not have happened with 95% (or more) of other QBs under center.
Maybe it's me, but I'd much rather 2 rings, lots of years of competitiveness, some just awful suckiness and a good deal of inconsistency if that means, well... did I mention 2 rings?
AAABatteries
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
Don't agree with this part. I think Roeth and Rivers are superior QBs and I see no reason why those Giants teams wouldn't have won with them, too, but of course there's no way to prove these hypotheticals of "If Player X was on Team Y...". Eli obviously became your guy through the rest of his career (and beyond) because of what he was part of and that's huge to fans and potentially has an impact in HOF voting.
Koya
Footballguy
I don't at all believe Rivers is the superior QB. Like a pitcher or a goalie, wins mean more for the QB position and Eli has won some huge games under very tough circumstance. Rivers had one of the greatest RBs of all time and one of the greatest TEs of all time.
While I agree with you on Roeths, you discount the NY aspect. The reality is, it's a big one. Some guys thrive under the limelight and pressure. Some guys wilt. Some guys, like Eli, just don't seem to notice the headlights shined in their eyes.
To that end, let's remember the early Roeths years where he was partying, date-raping (ALLEGEDLY) and all that... there's simply a higher likelihood that such immaturity, in this market, would have ended poorly. I'll take the same number of SB rings from Eli, on what I believe were lesser teams, as opposed to what, getting THREE with Roeths in this same time (assuming he doesn't flame out under the scrutiny of this market in the first 5 years)
shadyridr
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
To be fair he's generally been quite a bit better than Flacco in the non Super Bowl years, especially in terms of volume which HOF voters seem to value. Flacco's career high in TDs in a season would be 6th best in Eli's career, and Flacco's career high in yards would be 7th for Eli (and while Flacco has generally thrown less he did have a good 4 year run with very high attempt totals).
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Well that's the rub, right? We can speculate but that's not something HOF voters look at.
And it works both ways. Who knows how many Super Bowls other QBs would have won in Pit with that absolutely unprecedented (in the modern era) run of great defenses. As I mentioned earlier in this thread Big Ben has one career playoff win when not playing with a defense ranked in the top 3, and has missed the playoffs entirely in almost all of those years. I don't think Eli has had the luxury of ever playing with a top 3 defense a single time in his entire career.
Dedfin
Footballguy
I don't think Eli Manning is a great QB. I don't think he's remotely close. I also think the Pro Football HOF is not for collecting only the greatest players ever, but players integral to telling the story of the NFL. You need Eli Manning to help tell that story. There are more than a few players that fit this definition and Elisha should be one of them.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I agree with the majority here that say he is a lock, but I don't think he is a hall of famer. Other than those 2 magic runs in the playoffs he has been an average quarterback his entire career. Has he even won a playoff other than thr two super bowl runs? I also don't like the stats he complied argument either, the league has never been more friendly to offense and especially passing.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yes he will, but no he shouldn't.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I hope so! - sincerely, the guy who creates the HoF busts.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
That's true but he's still 3rd since 2000 in those stats behind only Tom Brady and Drew Brees. Ahead of Big Ben, RIvers, Rodgers, Romo, and Palmer who were all drafted the same year or within a year of him, and several of which will be Hall of Famers themselves.
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
That is true, but only Rodgers and Ben are probably locks for the Hall of Fame, and they both have missed significant time with injuries, or waiting behind Farve and on a per game basis they both blow away Manning.
Both Rodgers and Ben have way less turnovers per game, better qbr and rating, average more passing yards per game, better completion percentage, better average per throw, and more touchdowns per game. They both pass the eyeball test better than Eli.
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
True but staying healthy is a part of volume. Favre's records didn't have an asterisk next to them on his HOF ballot because he played a lot of games.msudaisy26 said:
Rodgers will probably surpass Eli in TDs before he retires, but he'll have a hard time catching him in yards (he's 2 years younger and 13,000 yards behind). So in the end from this era we'll have mortal HOF locks of Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Ben. Eli will slot right into the middle of them on volume stats when all is said and done, and combined with 2 Super Bowls and a "clutch" stigma from those two Super Bowl runs he's pretty much a lock himself even though his efficiency numbers are very meh. He'll also finish ahead of Romo, Rivers, and Palmer in volume all of whom also benefitted from modern era passing and all of whom are probably near misses but would probably be HOF locks if they had Eli's 2 rings.
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