Small Scale Farming - Anyone Into It? (1 Viewer)

[InDitkaWeTrust]

I don't plant the quick growing, disease/pest resistant hybrids. My go-to varieties are Cherokee Purple, German Johnson, sungold, and striped German. I usually add a couple plants of a new variety every year, but mostly fall back to those 4. My kids eat the sungolds like candy and during the peak of the season, they make a wonderfully sweet sauce (even if it is yellow-ish).

Three of those are heirlooms but the Sungolds are disease/pest resistant hybrids. My favorite tomato. I eat them like your kids do, like candy. They taste tropical, very different and super sweet. They're prone to cracking which made them hard to market. I grew 100 plants outdoors in brutal desert conditions and won a taste test competition at the Santa Monica farmers market. They torture wine grapes for high brix so I tortured grape tomatoes. It worked but the yield was tiny, like high end wine grapes. The tomato I had a huge crush on was Sunsugar, a hybrid of the the hybrid Sungold. No cracking, a little bigger, massive trusses, just as sweet, but lose the tropical thing. More tomato-y isn't a bad thing, but Sungolds are just awesome vine ripened at home. Sunsugars are my 2nd recommendation. Cherokee Purples are on a long list of best beefsteaks but difficult to grow for market and I think the ones I see in the grocery store (in the little high priced heirloom section) are not true Cherokee Purples. I can tell by the stems. They should be thick, but they're so thin I think they're hybrids and won't buy them.

You aren't kidding about the sungolds splitting. This summer has been extremely wet here and over half of mine have split. Same last year. Year before was a dry July and I must have gotten 25lbs off of 4 plants. I'll look into the sun sugars for next season. Thanks for the rec!

The striped Germans have produced a ton this year. 4 plants have given 2 dozen fruit so far, all over a pound. CPs have been mediocre, but I suspect all the water has stunted them.

The thinner stemmed CPs you see at the store are probably black krim. Good tomatoes, but not as tasty (or fickle) as CPs.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I don't see how anyone makes much cash at the farmers market. Especially on cheap vegetables.

Few do. Well, from what I saw anyway. My wife loved setting up at farmers markets, socializing all day, and being part of that community. As bookkeeper I just shook my head once a month. She was making minimum wage if you count "all" the hours, "tax free" cash in pocket if you know what I mean. She was a nurse who worked nights and did two or three markets a week for about three years. Eventually she burned out. I had a day job but spent many nights loading her up for the next day's market. The books suggest I did this for free.

This is a good read if you're wondering about what's involved in selling a variety of crops on a small scale.

We participated in a CSA with three other farms, but it was fraught with issues between us and satisfying subscribers. A single grower has a better shot at making a CSA work, in my experience. Selling direct to restaurants was the most fun, the most satisfying and the most profitable, but it takes legwork, time, and you need access to a lot of restaurants. My niche was Asian greens. Free meals were a nice bonus.

Wife's uncle retired and lives on Lake Tahoe. Bought up some land near Carson City and has a small'ish lavender farm. Sells most of it extracted into essential oils. He seems to love it. I am jealous

I'll be in Tahoe for most of August. I know the Carson Valley like the back of my hand. I've posted before about it being a great retirement area, and I will again be looking at land. The ag land west of Gardnerville is dreamy. But the more important reason for quoting moops here is the single crop growing idea. That makes the life easy and wholesaling was the best option for me. By 2001 16 acres of Avos were in full production, trouble free, easy peezy and netting 6 figures. I'd call the packing company anytime between late August and early October. They show up with trucks, bins, a team of pickers, strip the grove, weigh and grade the crop - cut me a check a month later. I'm sure lavender farming works the same way. I used Henry Avocado. You may have seen their sticker on your avos.

After my divorce in 02, I did what had obviously been making the most sense for years. Converted the greenhouses to a single crop - tomatoes. Two varieties for awhile because I had a huge crush on one. I used the massive wholesale produce market in downtown LA at first. Fun scene. Opens at 2am closes at 8am. Eventually just one beefsteak contracted to one buyer who came and got them. Perfect. For three years they netted more monthly (7 months a year) than the avos did annually and I sold. Had I done that from the start I would have retired early on the beach not here in this god forsaken desert.

Thanks for this.

I need to do better at comparing prices. It seems to me the vegetables are expensive. Last week, the big Beefsteak tomatoes were selling for $5 each and there was a line. That seems not cheap but maybe it's not.

Yeah. The sellers at the one near me are definitely making money. Prices have gone way up

I mean I hope they are making money, it's not a charity after all

Yeah I should’ve typed “they are making MONEY”

 

[Chaos34]

I don't see how anyone makes much cash at the farmers market. Especially on cheap vegetables.

Few do. Well, from what I saw anyway. My wife loved setting up at farmers markets, socializing all day, and being part of that community. As bookkeeper I just shook my head once a month. She was making minimum wage if you count "all" the hours, "tax free" cash in pocket if you know what I mean. She was a nurse who worked nights and did two or three markets a week for about three years. Eventually she burned out. I had a day job but spent many nights loading her up for the next day's market. The books suggest I did this for free.

This is a good read if you're wondering about what's involved in selling a variety of crops on a small scale.

We participated in a CSA with three other farms, but it was fraught with issues between us and satisfying subscribers. A single grower has a better shot at making a CSA work, in my experience. Selling direct to restaurants was the most fun, the most satisfying and the most profitable, but it takes legwork, time, and you need access to a lot of restaurants. My niche was Asian greens. Free meals were a nice bonus.

Wife's uncle retired and lives on Lake Tahoe. Bought up some land near Carson City and has a small'ish lavender farm. Sells most of it extracted into essential oils. He seems to love it. I am jealous

I'll be in Tahoe for most of August. I know the Carson Valley like the back of my hand. I've posted before about it being a great retirement area, and I will again be looking at land. The ag land west of Gardnerville is dreamy. But the more important reason for quoting moops here is the single crop growing idea. That makes the life easy and wholesaling was the best option for me. By 2001 16 acres of Avos were in full production, trouble free, easy peezy and netting 6 figures. I'd call the packing company anytime between late August and early October. They show up with trucks, bins, a team of pickers, strip the grove, weigh and grade the crop - cut me a check a month later. I'm sure lavender farming works the same way. I used Henry Avocado. You may have seen their sticker on your avos.

After my divorce in 02, I did what had obviously been making the most sense for years. Converted the greenhouses to a single crop - tomatoes. Two varieties for awhile because I had a huge crush on one. I used the massive wholesale produce market in downtown LA at first. Fun scene. Opens at 2am closes at 8am. Eventually just one beefsteak contracted to one buyer who came and got them. Perfect. For three years they netted more monthly (7 months a year) than the avos did annually and I sold. Had I done that from the start I would have retired early on the beach not here in this god forsaken desert.

Thanks for this.

I need to do better at comparing prices. It seems to me the vegetables are expensive. Last week, the big Beefsteak tomatoes were selling for $5 each and there was a line. That seems not cheap but maybe it's not.

Yeah. The sellers at the one near me are definitely making money. Prices have gone way up

I mean I hope they are making money, it's not a charity after all

For sure. I think the question is how much money. Or more to the point, if it's a profitable enough business to be attractive to get into.

When I was done, I was DONE. It's a hard business to justify the work, risk, and headaches to profit ratio. I posted some pretty big numbers after a decade of figuring things out. I posted some pretty big losses before that too. I took big loans that had friends and family sure I was insane and headed for BK, and they were close to being right for a few years. It worked out and I got out.

@DA RAIDERS is probably familiar with Roger's Gardens. I was 15 when I first walked into their greenhouse. That was it. I wanted to spend the rest of my life in a greenhouse and started doing research in the library. When I sold I never wanted to see another greenhouse.

In a situation like yours - you have land, you have other income, you're interested, you like food as a topic, you like community - I think you should try. I encourage you. Do some research. Maybe a grove or orchard is smart. Delayed gratification is powerful. They're not difficult. Maybe there's a crop in high demand. Jujubes. Who knows? I do not recommend growing commodities for market, row crops, or anything labor intensive. Specialty produce is fun and you could just grow for a chef or restaurant to start. Start small.

On the other hand, if the burning question is how much money, then maybe the answer is just don't. You really should LOVE the idea of not just putting the land to use, but selling whatever you put the land to. That link above about marketing is more important than any research you'll do about what and how to grow.

I walked into a lot of restaurants with pictures of my greenhouses, and told them I could grow anything. What do you need? Oh, you need choy sum, mitsuba, purple shiso and hon tsai tsai. No problem! I'd never heard of them. I'd source the seed and grow. Communication and coordination was key. Organization. Expanding those grows into other Asian restaurants was easy but definitely time consuming.

I should have planted 20-40 acres of figs here in the desert after I recovered from burn out. The equity in those trees would be fantastic about now.

Look into no till farming. Be "beyond organic" or naturally grown for credibility without bureaucracy.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don't see how anyone makes much cash at the farmers market. Especially on cheap vegetables.

Few do. Well, from what I saw anyway. My wife loved setting up at farmers markets, socializing all day, and being part of that community. As bookkeeper I just shook my head once a month. She was making minimum wage if you count "all" the hours, "tax free" cash in pocket if you know what I mean. She was a nurse who worked nights and did two or three markets a week for about three years. Eventually she burned out. I had a day job but spent many nights loading her up for the next day's market. The books suggest I did this for free.

This is a good read if you're wondering about what's involved in selling a variety of crops on a small scale.

We participated in a CSA with three other farms, but it was fraught with issues between us and satisfying subscribers. A single grower has a better shot at making a CSA work, in my experience. Selling direct to restaurants was the most fun, the most satisfying and the most profitable, but it takes legwork, time, and you need access to a lot of restaurants. My niche was Asian greens. Free meals were a nice bonus.

Wife's uncle retired and lives on Lake Tahoe. Bought up some land near Carson City and has a small'ish lavender farm. Sells most of it extracted into essential oils. He seems to love it. I am jealous

I'll be in Tahoe for most of August. I know the Carson Valley like the back of my hand. I've posted before about it being a great retirement area, and I will again be looking at land. The ag land west of Gardnerville is dreamy. But the more important reason for quoting moops here is the single crop growing idea. That makes the life easy and wholesaling was the best option for me. By 2001 16 acres of Avos were in full production, trouble free, easy peezy and netting 6 figures. I'd call the packing company anytime between late August and early October. They show up with trucks, bins, a team of pickers, strip the grove, weigh and grade the crop - cut me a check a month later. I'm sure lavender farming works the same way. I used Henry Avocado. You may have seen their sticker on your avos.

After my divorce in 02, I did what had obviously been making the most sense for years. Converted the greenhouses to a single crop - tomatoes. Two varieties for awhile because I had a huge crush on one. I used the massive wholesale produce market in downtown LA at first. Fun scene. Opens at 2am closes at 8am. Eventually just one beefsteak contracted to one buyer who came and got them. Perfect. For three years they netted more monthly (7 months a year) than the avos did annually and I sold. Had I done that from the start I would have retired early on the beach not here in this god forsaken desert.

Thanks for this.

I need to do better at comparing prices. It seems to me the vegetables are expensive. Last week, the big Beefsteak tomatoes were selling for $5 each and there was a line. That seems not cheap but maybe it's not.

Yeah. The sellers at the one near me are definitely making money. Prices have gone way up

I mean I hope they are making money, it's not a charity after all

For sure. I think the question is how much money. Or more to the point, if it's a profitable enough business to be attractive to get into.

When I was done, I was DONE. It's a hard business to justify the work, risk, and headaches to profit ratio. I posted some pretty big numbers after a decade of figuring things out. I posted some pretty big losses before that too. I took big loans that had friends and family sure I was insane and headed for BK, and they were close to being right for a few years. It worked out and I got out.

@DA RAIDERS is probably familiar with Roger's Gardens. I was 15 when I first walked into their greenhouse. That was it. I wanted to spend the rest of my life in a greenhouse and started doing research in the library. When I sold I never wanted to see another greenhouse.

In a situation like yours - you have land, you have other income, you're interested, you like food as a topic, you like community - I think you should try. I encourage you. Do some research. Maybe a grove or orchard is smart. Delayed gratification is powerful. They're not difficult. Maybe there's a crop in high demand. Jujubes. Who knows? I do not recommend growing commodities for market, row crops, or anything labor intensive. Specialty produce is fun and you could just grow for a chef or restaurant to start. Start small.

On the other hand, if the burning question is how much money, then maybe the answer is just don't. You really should LOVE the idea of not just putting the land to use, but selling whatever you put the land to. That link above about marketing is more important than any research you'll do about what and how to grow.

I walked into a lot of restaurants with pictures of my greenhouses, and told them I could grow anything. What do you need? Oh, you need choy sum, mitsuba, purple shiso and hon tsai tsai. No problem! I'd never heard of them. I'd source the seed and grow. Communication and coordination was key. Organization. Expanding those grows into other Asian restaurants was easy but definitely time consuming.

I should have planted 20-40 acres of figs here in the desert after I recovered from burn out. The equity in those trees would be fantastic about now.

Look into no till farming. Be "beyond organic" or naturally grown for credibility without bureaucracy.

Thanks. Agreed it can't be about making a bunch of money. There simply doesn't seem to be enough there. I was mainly thinking of it in terms of making it worthwhile. And that might just barely breaking even. It definitely has to be a "want to" thing. I can see that for sure.

Thanks for sharing your expertise!

 

[Chaos34]

I don't plant the quick growing, disease/pest resistant hybrids. My go-to varieties are Cherokee Purple, German Johnson, sungold, and striped German. I usually add a couple plants of a new variety every year, but mostly fall back to those 4. My kids eat the sungolds like candy and during the peak of the season, they make a wonderfully sweet sauce (even if it is yellow-ish).

Three of those are heirlooms but the Sungolds are disease/pest resistant hybrids. My favorite tomato. I eat them like your kids do, like candy. They taste tropical, very different and super sweet. They're prone to cracking which made them hard to market. I grew 100 plants outdoors in brutal desert conditions and won a taste test competition at the Santa Monica farmers market. They torture wine grapes for high brix so I tortured grape tomatoes. It worked but the yield was tiny, like high end wine grapes. The tomato I had a huge crush on was Sunsugar, a hybrid of the the hybrid Sungold. No cracking, a little bigger, massive trusses, just as sweet, but lose the tropical thing. More tomato-y isn't a bad thing, but Sungolds are just awesome vine ripened at home. Sunsugars are my 2nd recommendation. Cherokee Purples are on a long list of best beefsteaks but difficult to grow for market and I think the ones I see in the grocery store (in the little high priced heirloom section) are not true Cherokee Purples. I can tell by the stems. They should be thick, but they're so thin I think they're hybrids and won't buy them.

You aren't kidding about the sungolds splitting. This summer has been extremely wet here and over half of mine have split. Same last year. Year before was a dry July and I must have gotten 25lbs off of 4 plants. I'll look into the sun sugars for next season. Thanks for the rec!

The striped Germans have produced a ton this year. 4 plants have given 2 dozen fruit so far, all over a pound. CPs have been mediocre, but I suspect all the water has stunted them.

The thinner stemmed CPs you see at the store are probably black krim. Good tomatoes, but not as tasty (or fickle) as CPs.

Well they say Cherokee Purple on them. I have a pretty good eye for hothouse tomatoes vs field grown and traits between hybrids and heirlooms. They're also coming from Mexico and I'm just not buying them. Once you grow a Cherokee or Brandywine at home successfully, you're spoiled. I've grown 60-70 heirlooms but not the other ones you mention. Seen them in the catalogs but tried other varieties. I just googled best tasting tomatoes and holy wow, the world has changed. I saw several listed I've never heard of.

 

[Chaos34]

I don't see how anyone makes much cash at the farmers market. Especially on cheap vegetables.

Few do. Well, from what I saw anyway. My wife loved setting up at farmers markets, socializing all day, and being part of that community. As bookkeeper I just shook my head once a month. She was making minimum wage if you count "all" the hours, "tax free" cash in pocket if you know what I mean. She was a nurse who worked nights and did two or three markets a week for about three years. Eventually she burned out. I had a day job but spent many nights loading her up for the next day's market. The books suggest I did this for free.

This is a good read if you're wondering about what's involved in selling a variety of crops on a small scale.

We participated in a CSA with three other farms, but it was fraught with issues between us and satisfying subscribers. A single grower has a better shot at making a CSA work, in my experience. Selling direct to restaurants was the most fun, the most satisfying and the most profitable, but it takes legwork, time, and you need access to a lot of restaurants. My niche was Asian greens. Free meals were a nice bonus.

Wife's uncle retired and lives on Lake Tahoe. Bought up some land near Carson City and has a small'ish lavender farm. Sells most of it extracted into essential oils. He seems to love it. I am jealous

I'll be in Tahoe for most of August. I know the Carson Valley like the back of my hand. I've posted before about it being a great retirement area, and I will again be looking at land. The ag land west of Gardnerville is dreamy. But the more important reason for quoting moops here is the single crop growing idea. That makes the life easy and wholesaling was the best option for me. By 2001 16 acres of Avos were in full production, trouble free, easy peezy and netting 6 figures. I'd call the packing company anytime between late August and early October. They show up with trucks, bins, a team of pickers, strip the grove, weigh and grade the crop - cut me a check a month later. I'm sure lavender farming works the same way. I used Henry Avocado. You may have seen their sticker on your avos.

After my divorce in 02, I did what had obviously been making the most sense for years. Converted the greenhouses to a single crop - tomatoes. Two varieties for awhile because I had a huge crush on one. I used the massive wholesale produce market in downtown LA at first. Fun scene. Opens at 2am closes at 8am. Eventually just one beefsteak contracted to one buyer who came and got them. Perfect. For three years they netted more monthly (7 months a year) than the avos did annually and I sold. Had I done that from the start I would have retired early on the beach not here in this god forsaken desert.

Thanks for this.

I need to do better at comparing prices. It seems to me the vegetables are expensive. Last week, the big Beefsteak tomatoes were selling for $5 each and there was a line. That seems not cheap but maybe it's not.

Yeah. The sellers at the one near me are definitely making money. Prices have gone way up

I mean I hope they are making money, it's not a charity after all

For sure. I think the question is how much money. Or more to the point, if it's a profitable enough business to be attractive to get into.

When I was done, I was DONE. It's a hard business to justify the work, risk, and headaches to profit ratio. I posted some pretty big numbers after a decade of figuring things out. I posted some pretty big losses before that too. I took big loans that had friends and family sure I was insane and headed for BK, and they were close to being right for a few years. It worked out and I got out.

@DA RAIDERS is probably familiar with Roger's Gardens. I was 15 when I first walked into their greenhouse. That was it. I wanted to spend the rest of my life in a greenhouse and started doing research in the library. When I sold I never wanted to see another greenhouse.

In a situation like yours - you have land, you have other income, you're interested, you like food as a topic, you like community - I think you should try. I encourage you. Do some research. Maybe a grove or orchard is smart. Delayed gratification is powerful. They're not difficult. Maybe there's a crop in high demand. Jujubes. Who knows? I do not recommend growing commodities for market, row crops, or anything labor intensive. Specialty produce is fun and you could just grow for a chef or restaurant to start. Start small.

On the other hand, if the burning question is how much money, then maybe the answer is just don't. You really should LOVE the idea of not just putting the land to use, but selling whatever you put the land to. That link above about marketing is more important than any research you'll do about what and how to grow.

I walked into a lot of restaurants with pictures of my greenhouses, and told them I could grow anything. What do you need? Oh, you need choy sum, mitsuba, purple shiso and hon tsai tsai. No problem! I'd never heard of them. I'd source the seed and grow. Communication and coordination was key. Organization. Expanding those grows into other Asian restaurants was easy but definitely time consuming.

I should have planted 20-40 acres of figs here in the desert after I recovered from burn out. The equity in those trees would be fantastic about now.

Look into no till farming. Be "beyond organic" or naturally grown for credibility without bureaucracy.

Thanks. Agreed it can't be about making a bunch of money. There simply doesn't seem to be enough there. I was mainly thinking of it in terms of making it worthwhile. And that might just barely breaking even. It definitely has to be a "want to" thing. I can see that for sure.

Sadly, the money didn't get good until I did what gets complained about so much. I leveraged hybrid vigor and grew bland tomatoes with huge comparative yields. The only things the buyer wanted was bulk and more hang time than he could get from big ag. I'd stabilized an F1 beefsteak he liked better than my competition. I like the simple science of hydroponics, especially aeroponics, so my grows were soilless, something else criticized here, but done right, those methods can produce better tasting tomatoes. Big ag just grows tasteless mega yielding hybrids they pick way too early and gas ripen. My hybrid was 25% Brandywine DNA. My buyer sold everything to Darden. So my maters were in Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Longhorn, etc.

You should be able to break even plus a little something extra with basic field crops if you grow and market them right. There's a line where you can't harvest what you grow and labor costs kick in. That line moves all over the place depending on your crop and how you grow it. Crossing it can cause losses then it's pretty much go big or scale down. This why small growers scale down to efficient niche production. Microgreens, herbs, gourmet roots, unusual crops, unique cultivars of common crops, and old school heirlooms. It's August in Tennessee. I've got a ton of old seed that's perfect for planting now - radishes, lettuces, spinach. Let's get you started.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I don't see how anyone makes much cash at the farmers market. Especially on cheap vegetables.

Few do. Well, from what I saw anyway. My wife loved setting up at farmers markets, socializing all day, and being part of that community. As bookkeeper I just shook my head once a month. She was making minimum wage if you count "all" the hours, "tax free" cash in pocket if you know what I mean. She was a nurse who worked nights and did two or three markets a week for about three years. Eventually she burned out. I had a day job but spent many nights loading her up for the next day's market. The books suggest I did this for free.

This is a good read if you're wondering about what's involved in selling a variety of crops on a small scale.

We participated in a CSA with three other farms, but it was fraught with issues between us and satisfying subscribers. A single grower has a better shot at making a CSA work, in my experience. Selling direct to restaurants was the most fun, the most satisfying and the most profitable, but it takes legwork, time, and you need access to a lot of restaurants. My niche was Asian greens. Free meals were a nice bonus.

Wife's uncle retired and lives on Lake Tahoe. Bought up some land near Carson City and has a small'ish lavender farm. Sells most of it extracted into essential oils. He seems to love it. I am jealous

I'll be in Tahoe for most of August. I know the Carson Valley like the back of my hand. I've posted before about it being a great retirement area, and I will again be looking at land. The ag land west of Gardnerville is dreamy. But the more important reason for quoting moops here is the single crop growing idea. That makes the life easy and wholesaling was the best option for me. By 2001 16 acres of Avos were in full production, trouble free, easy peezy and netting 6 figures. I'd call the packing company anytime between late August and early October. They show up with trucks, bins, a team of pickers, strip the grove, weigh and grade the crop - cut me a check a month later. I'm sure lavender farming works the same way. I used Henry Avocado. You may have seen their sticker on your avos.

After my divorce in 02, I did what had obviously been making the most sense for years. Converted the greenhouses to a single crop - tomatoes. Two varieties for awhile because I had a huge crush on one. I used the massive wholesale produce market in downtown LA at first. Fun scene. Opens at 2am closes at 8am. Eventually just one beefsteak contracted to one buyer who came and got them. Perfect. For three years they netted more monthly (7 months a year) than the avos did annually and I sold. Had I done that from the start I would have retired early on the beach not here in this god forsaken desert.

Thanks for this.

I need to do better at comparing prices. It seems to me the vegetables are expensive. Last week, the big Beefsteak tomatoes were selling for $5 each and there was a line. That seems not cheap but maybe it's not.

Yeah. The sellers at the one near me are definitely making money. Prices have gone way up

I mean I hope they are making money, it's not a charity after all

For sure. I think the question is how much money. Or more to the point, if it's a profitable enough business to be attractive to get into.

When I was done, I was DONE. It's a hard business to justify the work, risk, and headaches to profit ratio. I posted some pretty big numbers after a decade of figuring things out. I posted some pretty big losses before that too. I took big loans that had friends and family sure I was insane and headed for BK, and they were close to being right for a few years. It worked out and I got out.

@DA RAIDERS is probably familiar with Roger's Gardens. I was 15 when I first walked into their greenhouse. That was it. I wanted to spend the rest of my life in a greenhouse and started doing research in the library. When I sold I never wanted to see another greenhouse.

In a situation like yours - you have land, you have other income, you're interested, you like food as a topic, you like community - I think you should try. I encourage you. Do some research. Maybe a grove or orchard is smart. Delayed gratification is powerful. They're not difficult. Maybe there's a crop in high demand. Jujubes. Who knows? I do not recommend growing commodities for market, row crops, or anything labor intensive. Specialty produce is fun and you could just grow for a chef or restaurant to start. Start small.

On the other hand, if the burning question is how much money, then maybe the answer is just don't. You really should LOVE the idea of not just putting the land to use, but selling whatever you put the land to. That link above about marketing is more important than any research you'll do about what and how to grow.

I walked into a lot of restaurants with pictures of my greenhouses, and told them I could grow anything. What do you need? Oh, you need choy sum, mitsuba, purple shiso and hon tsai tsai. No problem! I'd never heard of them. I'd source the seed and grow. Communication and coordination was key. Organization. Expanding those grows into other Asian restaurants was easy but definitely time consuming.

I should have planted 20-40 acres of figs here in the desert after I recovered from burn out. The equity in those trees would be fantastic about now.

Look into no till farming. Be "beyond organic" or naturally grown for credibility without bureaucracy.

Rogers garden is still amazing.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

I don't see how anyone makes much cash at the farmers market. Especially on cheap vegetables.

Few do. Well, from what I saw anyway. My wife loved setting up at farmers markets, socializing all day, and being part of that community. As bookkeeper I just shook my head once a month. She was making minimum wage if you count "all" the hours, "tax free" cash in pocket if you know what I mean. She was a nurse who worked nights and did two or three markets a week for about three years. Eventually she burned out. I had a day job but spent many nights loading her up for the next day's market. The books suggest I did this for free.

This is a good read if you're wondering about what's involved in selling a variety of crops on a small scale.

We participated in a CSA with three other farms, but it was fraught with issues between us and satisfying subscribers. A single grower has a better shot at making a CSA work, in my experience. Selling direct to restaurants was the most fun, the most satisfying and the most profitable, but it takes legwork, time, and you need access to a lot of restaurants. My niche was Asian greens. Free meals were a nice bonus.

Wife's uncle retired and lives on Lake Tahoe. Bought up some land near Carson City and has a small'ish lavender farm. Sells most of it extracted into essential oils. He seems to love it. I am jealous

I'll be in Tahoe for most of August. I know the Carson Valley like the back of my hand. I've posted before about it being a great retirement area, and I will again be looking at land. The ag land west of Gardnerville is dreamy. But the more important reason for quoting moops here is the single crop growing idea. That makes the life easy and wholesaling was the best option for me. By 2001 16 acres of Avos were in full production, trouble free, easy peezy and netting 6 figures. I'd call the packing company anytime between late August and early October. They show up with trucks, bins, a team of pickers, strip the grove, weigh and grade the crop - cut me a check a month later. I'm sure lavender farming works the same way. I used Henry Avocado. You may have seen their sticker on your avos.

After my divorce in 02, I did what had obviously been making the most sense for years. Converted the greenhouses to a single crop - tomatoes. Two varieties for awhile because I had a huge crush on one. I used the massive wholesale produce market in downtown LA at first. Fun scene. Opens at 2am closes at 8am. Eventually just one beefsteak contracted to one buyer who came and got them. Perfect. For three years they netted more monthly (7 months a year) than the avos did annually and I sold. Had I done that from the start I would have retired early on the beach not here in this god forsaken desert.

Thanks for this.

I need to do better at comparing prices. It seems to me the vegetables are expensive. Last week, the big Beefsteak tomatoes were selling for $5 each and there was a line. That seems not cheap but maybe it's not.

Yeah. The sellers at the one near me are definitely making money. Prices have gone way up

I mean I hope they are making money, it's not a charity after all

For sure. I think the question is how much money. Or more to the point, if it's a profitable enough business to be attractive to get into.

When I was done, I was DONE. It's a hard business to justify the work, risk, and headaches to profit ratio. I posted some pretty big numbers after a decade of figuring things out. I posted some pretty big losses before that too. I took big loans that had friends and family sure I was insane and headed for BK, and they were close to being right for a few years. It worked out and I got out.

@DA RAIDERS is probably familiar with Roger's Gardens. I was 15 when I first walked into their greenhouse. That was it. I wanted to spend the rest of my life in a greenhouse and started doing research in the library. When I sold I never wanted to see another greenhouse.

In a situation like yours - you have land, you have other income, you're interested, you like food as a topic, you like community - I think you should try. I encourage you. Do some research. Maybe a grove or orchard is smart. Delayed gratification is powerful. They're not difficult. Maybe there's a crop in high demand. Jujubes. Who knows? I do not recommend growing commodities for market, row crops, or anything labor intensive. Specialty produce is fun and you could just grow for a chef or restaurant to start. Start small.

On the other hand, if the burning question is how much money, then maybe the answer is just don't. You really should LOVE the idea of not just putting the land to use, but selling whatever you put the land to. That link above about marketing is more important than any research you'll do about what and how to grow.

I walked into a lot of restaurants with pictures of my greenhouses, and told them I could grow anything. What do you need? Oh, you need choy sum, mitsuba, purple shiso and hon tsai tsai. No problem! I'd never heard of them. I'd source the seed and grow. Communication and coordination was key. Organization. Expanding those grows into other Asian restaurants was easy but definitely time consuming.

I should have planted 20-40 acres of figs here in the desert after I recovered from burn out. The equity in those trees would be fantastic about now.

Look into no till farming. Be "beyond organic" or naturally grown for credibility without bureaucracy.

Thanks. Agreed it can't be about making a bunch of money. There simply doesn't seem to be enough there. I was mainly thinking of it in terms of making it worthwhile. And that might just barely breaking even. It definitely has to be a "want to" thing. I can see that for sure.

Thanks for sharing your expertise!

The time/energy that I see local organic farmers (mostly <20 acres) put in for the profit is insane. These folks work a ton.

Just remember, this isn't like your backyard garden. Yield matters. Quality matters. APPEARANCE matters. I'd imagine a solid 1/3 of my tomatoes from this year would be too 'ugly' to sell. They taste great, but people just won't buy something misshapen or with small blemishes. Not trying to discourage entrepreneurship, but just know farming on any scale is a very time-dependent venture.

 

[Joe Bryant]

So my maters were in Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Longhorn, etc.

Really? I had no idea places like that would be that discerning and looking for such high quality. I assumed the customers would all be high end fancy foodie type places.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don't see how anyone makes much cash at the farmers market. Especially on cheap vegetables.

Few do. Well, from what I saw anyway. My wife loved setting up at farmers markets, socializing all day, and being part of that community. As bookkeeper I just shook my head once a month. She was making minimum wage if you count "all" the hours, "tax free" cash in pocket if you know what I mean. She was a nurse who worked nights and did two or three markets a week for about three years. Eventually she burned out. I had a day job but spent many nights loading her up for the next day's market. The books suggest I did this for free.

This is a good read if you're wondering about what's involved in selling a variety of crops on a small scale.

We participated in a CSA with three other farms, but it was fraught with issues between us and satisfying subscribers. A single grower has a better shot at making a CSA work, in my experience. Selling direct to restaurants was the most fun, the most satisfying and the most profitable, but it takes legwork, time, and you need access to a lot of restaurants. My niche was Asian greens. Free meals were a nice bonus.

Wife's uncle retired and lives on Lake Tahoe. Bought up some land near Carson City and has a small'ish lavender farm. Sells most of it extracted into essential oils. He seems to love it. I am jealous

I'll be in Tahoe for most of August. I know the Carson Valley like the back of my hand. I've posted before about it being a great retirement area, and I will again be looking at land. The ag land west of Gardnerville is dreamy. But the more important reason for quoting moops here is the single crop growing idea. That makes the life easy and wholesaling was the best option for me. By 2001 16 acres of Avos were in full production, trouble free, easy peezy and netting 6 figures. I'd call the packing company anytime between late August and early October. They show up with trucks, bins, a team of pickers, strip the grove, weigh and grade the crop - cut me a check a month later. I'm sure lavender farming works the same way. I used Henry Avocado. You may have seen their sticker on your avos.

After my divorce in 02, I did what had obviously been making the most sense for years. Converted the greenhouses to a single crop - tomatoes. Two varieties for awhile because I had a huge crush on one. I used the massive wholesale produce market in downtown LA at first. Fun scene. Opens at 2am closes at 8am. Eventually just one beefsteak contracted to one buyer who came and got them. Perfect. For three years they netted more monthly (7 months a year) than the avos did annually and I sold. Had I done that from the start I would have retired early on the beach not here in this god forsaken desert.

Thanks for this.

I need to do better at comparing prices. It seems to me the vegetables are expensive. Last week, the big Beefsteak tomatoes were selling for $5 each and there was a line. That seems not cheap but maybe it's not.

Yeah. The sellers at the one near me are definitely making money. Prices have gone way up

I mean I hope they are making money, it's not a charity after all

For sure. I think the question is how much money. Or more to the point, if it's a profitable enough business to be attractive to get into.

When I was done, I was DONE. It's a hard business to justify the work, risk, and headaches to profit ratio. I posted some pretty big numbers after a decade of figuring things out. I posted some pretty big losses before that too. I took big loans that had friends and family sure I was insane and headed for BK, and they were close to being right for a few years. It worked out and I got out.

@DA RAIDERS is probably familiar with Roger's Gardens. I was 15 when I first walked into their greenhouse. That was it. I wanted to spend the rest of my life in a greenhouse and started doing research in the library. When I sold I never wanted to see another greenhouse.

In a situation like yours - you have land, you have other income, you're interested, you like food as a topic, you like community - I think you should try. I encourage you. Do some research. Maybe a grove or orchard is smart. Delayed gratification is powerful. They're not difficult. Maybe there's a crop in high demand. Jujubes. Who knows? I do not recommend growing commodities for market, row crops, or anything labor intensive. Specialty produce is fun and you could just grow for a chef or restaurant to start. Start small.

On the other hand, if the burning question is how much money, then maybe the answer is just don't. You really should LOVE the idea of not just putting the land to use, but selling whatever you put the land to. That link above about marketing is more important than any research you'll do about what and how to grow.

I walked into a lot of restaurants with pictures of my greenhouses, and told them I could grow anything. What do you need? Oh, you need choy sum, mitsuba, purple shiso and hon tsai tsai. No problem! I'd never heard of them. I'd source the seed and grow. Communication and coordination was key. Organization. Expanding those grows into other Asian restaurants was easy but definitely time consuming.

I should have planted 20-40 acres of figs here in the desert after I recovered from burn out. The equity in those trees would be fantastic about now.

Look into no till farming. Be "beyond organic" or naturally grown for credibility without bureaucracy.

Thanks. Agreed it can't be about making a bunch of money. There simply doesn't seem to be enough there. I was mainly thinking of it in terms of making it worthwhile. And that might just barely breaking even. It definitely has to be a "want to" thing. I can see that for sure.

Thanks for sharing your expertise!

The time/energy that I see local organic farmers (mostly <20 acres) put in for the profit is insane. These folks work a ton.

Just remember, this isn't like your backyard garden. Yield matters. Quality matters. APPEARANCE matters. I'd imagine a solid 1/3 of my tomatoes from this year would be too 'ugly' to sell. They taste great, but people just won't buy something misshapen or with small blemishes. Not trying to discourage entrepreneurship, but just know farming on any scale is a very time-dependent venture.

Agreed. “Ugly” usually doesn’t matter for taste but it does for selling.

I wonder then if something like selling eggs might be a positive there. Although it’s harder to differentiate I guess.

 

[Chaos34]

So my maters were in Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Longhorn, etc.

Really? I had no idea places like that would be that discerning and looking for such high quality. I assumed the customers would all be high end fancy foodie type places.

Well, I started that paragraph with - "sadly" I didn't make much money until I did what is often complained about. Grow bland tomatoes. My buyer wanted bulk and and something a little riper than what big ag harvests. They harvest at the mature green stage. Without ethylene treatment in gas chambers they won't even ripen. For this buyer I harvested at the mid-breaker stage, about half-red on the vine. Still too soon for peak sugars and acids, but ready for a burger by the time they made it to wherever they were going. I basically grew a version of these. Those are the type of hybrids InDitkaWeTrust rightly complained about. From my old seed supplier: heavy crops, hold up well after harvest, highly disease resistant. That's code for not very tasty but pretty and ships well.