Will Liberals Influence Red States / Cities like they have NY, Chicago, SF and LA? (1 Viewer)

[TripItUp]

Liberal cities have been overwhelmed with crime, debt, fraud and decreased quality of life mostly due to liberal reign.

The midterms seem a good first step to correct those problems.   

Are there any political historians here that have a perspective on the chances of these once great cities flipping back to conservative control and getting them back on track?  I know Giuliani is given a lot of credit for cleaning up NY but am not old enough to recall how he came to power etc.

 

[GoBirds]

Liberal cities have been overwhelmed with crime, debt, fraud and decreased quality of life mostly due to liberal reign.

The midterms seem a good first step to correct those problems.   

Are there any political historians here that have a perspective on the chances of these once great cities flipping back to conservative control and getting them back on track?  I know Giuliani is given a lot of credit for cleaning up NY but am not old enough to recall how he came to power etc.

Hopefully they stay in those cities already ruined with their elected officials. They got what they wanted there, why leave. 

 

[supermike80]

Well Detroit, while still liberal, elected a mayor who seems to be making good strides for the city.  Mike Duggan.   

 

[Godsbrother]

Pittsburgh is doing pretty well but we aspire to be Monroe LA.

 

[Nugget]

Liberal cities have been overwhelmed with crime, debt, fraud and decreased quality of life mostly due to liberal reign.

The midterms seem a good first step to correct those problems.   

Are there any political historians here that have a perspective on the chances of these once great cities flipping back to conservative control and getting them back on track?  I know Giuliani is given a lot of credit for cleaning up NY but am not old enough to recall how he came to power etc.

What large cities do you think are doing a good job?  I'm not sure how much is the politics as compared to problems of just size.  

 

[The Dude]

What large cities do you think are doing a good job?  I'm not sure how much is the politics as compared to problems of just size.  

Right - I think it's more a factor of population, population density and the stress it puts on cities.  But it would be good to have a comparison based on similar populations, political status, and civil stats like crime, homeless, etc - rather than just choking on the perspectives Hannity and Tucker feed you. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

I disagree with the premise that these cities are ruined.

 

[squistion]

I disagree with the premise that these cities are ruined.

Agreed, if L.A. has been ruined by liberals it is news to me. 

 

[JIslander]

Funny, I've been down in West Palm Beach the past week on business -- will be here a good bit the next month or two-- Pretty ridiculous rent; and man, saw all the yachts out at the waterfront. Crazy $$ here.  Mara Lago just down the road   Trump Jr and Senior will be up here for an event in a few weeks. --

Having said all that --City of Palm Beach went for Biden in 2020.  Which quite surprised me ---

 

[Da Guru]

Well Detroit, while still liberal, elected a mayor who seems to be making good strides for the city.  Mike Duggan.   

Yes and no.   Detroit is so used to having corruption as part of city government.  Duggan has been better but he is not squeaky clean either. 

I guess the question is do you want someone who is totally corrupt like Kwayme Kilpatrick was, or just a little corrupt like Duggan is. In that way I guess Duggan is better.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Right - I think it's more a factor of population, population density and the stress it puts on cities.  But it would be good to have a comparison based on similar populations, political status, and civil stats like crime, homeless, etc - rather than just choking on the perspectives Hannity and Tucker feed you. 

Here is a website that shows the top 100 most dangerous cities.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/top100dangerous

 

[quick-hands]

Here is a website that shows the top 100 most dangerous cities.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/top100dangerous

#3 and #100 are right next to each other.

 

[glvsav37]

Here is a website that shows the top 100 most dangerous cities.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/blog/top100dangerous

crime and safety is one attribute of "ruined" areas, but there are other factors as well. 

• Over-taxed
• sinking education system
• Low or dropping economic growth
• lack of well paying job opportunities
• Aging and ill repaired infrastructure 
etc.

I'm a NY'er, long island specifically, and we could be considered a "Liberal state" In the last 10+ years, all of those bullet points have been leading the conversation here. Years ago we had many public corp HQ's here (I dealt with public companies back then and we had so many local customers), but they have all moved to other states....main reason taxes, labor and RE costs. With those HQ moves, went many white collar jobs. We've been replacing them with service based or low wage retail or food service jobs. 

I pay over $12k in taxes for an average sized house on a 1/3rd of an acre in a very populated low-middle class area. Our roads are like a mine field and don't even talk about getting out of here. My kids play travel sports and we have to go though the city to get to many games. The bridges and roads are a mess and the congestion is unbearable. 

All local home construction has basically dried up and been replaced with massive multi-family units and complexes. Eventually we will become a renter's community and my single family home's value will plummet. 

I have told my kids that it would be in their best interest to not grow roots here and to look at other parts of the country. Unfortunately I'm stuck here for at least another 10 year b/c of my wife's job.  But as soon as she retires I'm looking to jump ship. All of my friends have already and are incredibly happier now. 

 

[massraider]

Yep, I'm definitely looking to move to rural Mississippi or West Virginia.

Wait. No, I'm not. 

 

[Desert_Power]

Yep, I'm definitely looking to move to rural Mississippi or West Virginia.

Wait. No, I'm not. 

I follow a guy on Tiktok who is homesteading on 100 acres in West Virginia. Seems pretty cool as long as you never need to access education or healthcare systems.

 

[Desert_Power]

I disagree with the premise that these cities are ruined.

Yeah. I wish they would build more housing though so it was more affordable for people to live or move there.

 

[GoBirds]

Yep, I'm definitely looking to move to rural Mississippi or West Virginia.

Wait. No, I'm not. 

Man, I’m sure they are devastated to hear this. 

 

[Desert_Power]

I have told my kids that it would be in their best interest to not grow roots here and to look at other parts of the country. Unfortunately I'm stuck here for at least another 10 year b/c of my wife's job.  But as soon as she retires I'm looking to jump ship. All of my friends have already and are incredibly happier now. 

Is there no possibility for her to find a job somewhere else? Politics aside, it sucks to live somewhere you dislike to this degree. Hope it gets better for you.

 

[steeler6]

I follow a guy on Tiktok who is homesteading on 100 acres in West Virginia. Seems pretty cool as long as you never need to access education or healthcare systems.

Can you post who this is. I love watching people do the thing I would like to do but, for various reasons, can't. 

 

[Mookie]

crime and safety is one attribute of "ruined" areas, but there are other factors as well. 

• Over-taxed
• sinking education system
• Low or dropping economic growth
• lack of well paying job opportunities
• Aging and ill repaired infrastructure 
etc.

I'm a NY'er, long island specifically, and we could be considered a "Liberal state" In the last 10+ years, all of those bullet points have been leading the conversation here. Years ago we had many public corp HQ's here (I dealt with public companies back then and we had so many local customers), but they have all moved to other states....main reason taxes, labor and RE costs. With those HQ moves, went many white collar jobs. We've been replacing them with service based or low wage retail or food service jobs. 

I pay over $12k in taxes for an average sized house on a 1/3rd of an acre in a very populated low-middle class area. Our roads are like a mine field and don't even talk about getting out of here. My kids play travel sports and we have to go though the city to get to many games. The bridges and roads are a mess and the congestion is unbearable. 

All local home construction has basically dried up and been replaced with massive multi-family units and complexes. Eventually we will become a renter's community and my single family home's value will plummet. 

I have told my kids that it would be in their best interest to not grow roots here and to look at other parts of the country. Unfortunately I'm stuck here for at least another 10 year b/c of my wife's job.  But as soon as she retires I'm looking to jump ship. All of my friends have already and are incredibly happier now. 

I grew up in LI and moved out west after I graduated college.  It's all about congestion for me, and has very little to do with politics - there are simply too many people and it makes just about every aspect of life more difficult.

 

[glvsav37]

Is there no possibility for her to find a job somewhere else? Politics aside, it sucks to live somewhere you dislike to this degree. Hope it gets better for you.

nah, we would take a big financial hit. She's a public school teacher and has tenure and seniority, plus when she retires will get a full pension and top health benefits. Very hard to walk away from that.

I work for myself, so I can pick up and work from anywhere. 

Yes, I generally dislike this area and seeing my friends enjoy their new locations doesn't make it easier. But it is what it is. Do I think things are going to massively change in the next 10 years? Not really. But I'm not the guy to sit on my stoop and complain, I am very active in my community and on the board of my chamber of commerce. So I'm at least trying to make things better...but the state as a whole is a completely different animal. 

 

[The Dude]

I posted this long ago but we need to sacrifice some city locations and start new cities elsewhere.  

https://fortune.com/2021/09/01/billionaire-marc-lore-utopian-city-equitism/

 

[massraider]

Man, I’m sure they are devastated to hear this. 

You miss that emoji, huh?

 

[Desert_Power]

Can you post who this is. I love watching people do the thing I would like to do but, for various reasons, can't. 

Nate Petroski/Narroway Homestead. It's cool stuff  

 

[Summer Wheat]

What type of city would be safer to live in and in general more successful in terms of business and governing.  100% Liberal or left population.  Or 100% right population? 

I am talking 100% one way of the other now without exceptions.   Probably would be a good pole. 

 

[JohnnyU]

I wish those leaving California in droves would stay in California.  They are bringing their far left opinions to other states and affecting their politics.  I hate that.

 

[knowledge dropper]

I posted this long ago but we need to sacrifice some city locations and start new cities elsewhere.  

https://fortune.com/2021/09/01/billionaire-marc-lore-utopian-city-equitism/

Should we start with New Orleans.  How long do they have?  Next Hurricane?

 

[supermike80]

Yes and no.   Detroit is so used to having corruption as part of city government.  Duggan has been better but he is not squeaky clean either. 

I guess the question is do you want someone who is totally corrupt like Kwayme Kilpatrick was, or just a little corrupt like Duggan is. In that way I guess Duggan is better.

Im basing it more on how hes been improving the city rather than the leve of corruption, none of which has been proven for Duggan but has been proven enough to send a mayor like Kwame to jail

 

[Da Guru]

Im basing it more on how hes been improving the city rather than the leve of corruption, none of which has been proven for Duggan but has been proven enough to send a mayor like Kwame to jail

The key to success as a big city mayor is take care of city business first before your pockets get lined.   Kwayme did the opposite.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I know this isn’t a serious thread, but there is a reason why higher population densities vote Democratic and lower population densities vote Republican. Republicans running our largest cities would work out as poorly as Democrats in rural areas.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

I think you put up a fence. 

 

[greenmountaingoat]

Maybe Yosemite Sam interviews anyone looking to move to the area. 

 

[glvsav37]

I know this isn’t a serious thread, but there is a reason why higher population densities vote Democratic and lower population densities vote Republican. Republicans running our largest cities would work out as poorly as Democrats in rural areas.

even though the OP mentions cities, I think the bigger issue to watch with the mass migration from traditionally D areas to traditionally R areas is the potential for the whole state to flip sides. 

 

[The Commish]

Funny, I've been down in West Palm Beach the past week on business -- will be here a good bit the next month or two-- Pretty ridiculous rent; and man, saw all the yachts out at the waterfront. Crazy $$ here.  Mara Lago just down the road   Trump Jr and Senior will be up here for an event in a few weeks. --

Having said all that --City of Palm Beach went for Biden in 2020.  Which quite surprised me ---

Palm Beach County is pretty much the PERFECT illustration of everything wrong with damn near everything in this country.  If you start at the western edge of the county out at the lake and work towards the coast, you'll see exactly what I mean.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Good luck trying to find a Republican city.

 

[JohnnyU]

even though the OP mentions cities, I think the bigger issue to watch with the mass migration from traditionally D areas to traditionally R areas is the potential for the whole state to flip sides. 

Yes, why not ruin the new place just like the place from which they came?

 

[Juxtatarot]

even though the OP mentions cities, I think the bigger issue to watch with the mass migration from traditionally D areas to traditionally R areas is the potential for the whole state to flip sides. 

That seems like a very natural phenomenon just like how the upper Midwest will eventually be red.

 

[Sand]

Well Detroit, while still liberal, elected a mayor who seems to be making good strides for the city.  Mike Duggan.   

This is Detroit under Democratic rule.  It may be good to see someone in there with some sense now, but the last 75 years have been pretty brutal for the residents that didn't flee.  2 of 3 have left.

All local home construction has basically dried up and been replaced with massive multi-family units and complexes. Eventually we will become a renter's community and my single family home's value will plummet. 

I highly doubt that.  Scarcity and demand from millennials will keep housing prices high for a long time to come.

 

[JohnnyU]

What worries me just as much as Democrats moving to red states, are laws the Democrats want to institute regarding zoning so low income housing spiral into the suburbs.  They've already ruined the urban areas and want to do the same to the 'burbs.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I know this isn’t a serious thread, but there is a reason why higher population densities vote Democratic and lower population densities vote Republican. Republicans running our largest cities would work out as poorly as Democrats in rural areas.

Not many sources that have data for both.  No idea how reliable worldpopulationreview is beyond being the #1 google result for just about every search of its type, but here's what they rank as the most liberal/conservative cities in the US, and then the world.  I think for the world they only considered capitals otherwise I guess it was too much to parse.

Most liberal (USA)

• San Francisco (my brother lives here so I'm there often, love it there)
  
• Washington DC
  
• Seattle
  
• Oakland
  
• Boston
  
• Minneapolis
  
• Detroit
  
• New York City
  
• Buffalo
  
• Baltimore
  

Most conservative (USA)

• Lafayette, LA
  
• Tyler, TX
  
• The Woodlands, TX
  
• Knoxville, TN
  
• Frisco, TX
  
• Carrollton, TX
  
• Murfreesboro, TN
  
• Chattanooga, TN (note: I lived here for 4 years, it's awesome)
  
• Scottsdale, AZ
  
• Plano, TX
  

Most liberal (world)

• London
  
• Stockholm
  
• Bern
  
• Copenhagen
  
• Helsinki
  
• Oslo
  
• DC
  
• Wellington
  
• Llubjana
  
• Reykjavik
  

Most conservative (world)

• Islamabad
  
• Addis Ababa
  
• Cairo
  
• Tehran
  
• Riyadh
  
• Sana'a
  
• Bamako
  
• N'Djamena
  
• Beirut
  
• Mbabane
  

100% liberal or 100% conservative you're probably looking at a crappier version of Pyonyang or a crappier version of Tehran, so not exactly Sophie's choice there.  Hence why liberals and conservatives complete each other, even as they sometimes hate each other.

 

[supermike80]

This is Detroit under Democratic rule.  It may be good to see someone in there with some sense now, but the last 75 years have been pretty brutal for the residents that didn't flee.  2 of 3 have left.

Wow..You seem to have missed the ENTIRE point about how Detroit NOW has seemingly elected a better mayor.  NOW...NOW means NOW.....Not the last 75 years. Means NOW..Get it?  NOW???

 

[supermike80]

The key to success as a big city mayor is take care of city business first before your pockets get lined.   Kwayme did the opposite.

Correct.  And he was in jail for it.  I was speaking about the current mayor.  Not sure really what your point is.  

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

Should we start with New Orleans.  How long do they have?  Next Hurricane?

wow, that's pretty offensive.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I disagree with the premise that these cities are ruined.

3 of my favorite cities.  Economic inequality has strained each of these cities in different ways.  But would really like to hear more from the OP about what makes each of them “ruined.”

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Not many sources that have data for both.  No idea how reliable worldpopulationreview is beyond being the #1 google result for just about every search of its type, but here's what they rank as the most liberal/conservative cities in the US, and then the world.  I think for the world they only considered capitals otherwise I guess it was too much to parse.

Most liberal (USA)

• San Francisco (my brother lives here so I'm there often, love it there)
  
• Washington DC
  
• Seattle
  
• Oakland
  
• Boston
  
• Minneapolis
  
• Detroit
  
• New York City
  
• Buffalo
  
• Baltimore
  

Most conservative (USA)

• Lafayette, LA
  
• Tyler, TX
  
• The Woodlands, TX
  
• Knoxville, TN
  
• Frisco, TX
  
• Carrollton, TX
  
• Murfreesboro, TN
  
• Chattanooga, TN (note: I lived here for 4 years, it's awesome)
  
• Scottsdale, AZ
  
• Plano, TX
  

Most liberal (world)

• London
  
• Stockholm
  
• Bern
  
• Copenhagen
  
• Helsinki
  
• Oslo
  
• DC
  
• Wellington
  
• Llubjana
  
• Reykjavik
  

Most conservative (world)

• Islamabad
  
• Addis Ababa
  
• Cairo
  
• Tehran
  
• Riyadh
  
• Sana'a
  
• Bamako
  
• N'Djamena
  
• Beirut
  
• Mbabane
  

100% liberal or 100% conservative you're probably looking at a crappier version of Pyonyang or a crappier version of Tehran, so not exactly Sophie's choice there.  Hence why liberals and conservatives complete each other, even as they sometimes hate each other.

Yeah, that’s an interesting list.  I enjoy 6 of the top 10 liberal US cities a great deal.  Have lived in 3 of them and spent time in all.   Also really like Knoxville.   Can’t imagine living in any of the other conservative US cities, but I’m sure they are nice.

The global list seems to be…..more related to authoritarian vs “free”, not really liberal vs conservative.  Can’t imagine many people would want to live in the 10 “conservative” global cities.  Could be wrong though.

The too-10 global liberal cities…..once again, some of my favorite cities overall.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Liberal cities have been overwhelmed with crime, debt, fraud and decreased quality of life mostly due to liberal reign.

The midterms seem a good first step to correct those problems.   

Are there any political historians here that have a perspective on the chances of these once great cities flipping back to conservative control and getting them back on track?  I know Giuliani is given a lot of credit for cleaning up NY but am not old enough to recall how he came to power etc.

States and cities are governed by Governors, Mayors, City Councils and other local forms of government. How are the midterms a "good first step to correct the problems"? Do you mean local elections in 2022? That's where change comes from at the state/city level. That's how Rudy "came to power", he won a local election.

I can speak to NYC a bit as I live in an outlying suburb and grew up in the 5 boroughs. I wouldn't pretend to know anything about LA or SF, although I have been to both places dozens of times. I would basically be guessing, or even worse pretending like I knew about their situations based on snippets provided by media outlets with obvious agendas. So I'll keep it to NYC for these suggestions:

• Eliminate cashless bail/no bail. Good job not spotting the obvious unintended consequences with this.
  
• Clean up midtown Manhattan. Especially the homeless situation. Home these people with permanent homes in outer boroughs. 
  
• Do not make it easier to do drugs in the city. This shouldn't be a difficult concept.
  

Cities also seem to provide a stark example of the discrepancies between the haves/have nots. Wealthy people thrive in NYC, it's a fantastic place for them. Working class folks struggle. This divide seems to be getting worse. Perhaps that is something that can be taken up at the Federal level, but good luck getting either party at the national level to genuinely help those folks.

 

[Guido Merkins]

The amount that people allow politics to determine their feelings on certain places is puzzling to me

I took a trip to Chicago in May.  Had never been and couldn't wait.  The number of people I talked to that said something to the effect of "I can't believe you are going to that liberal #### hole" was astonishing to me.  Meanwhile, Chicago is an AWESOME CITY.  Great food.  Great sites.  Great beer.  Beautiful views of the city and Lake Michigan.  Very nice and friendly people.  And in May?  Beautiful weather!!!  I had an awesome trip and I got to fulfill a bucket list item going to see a game at Wrigley.  Can't wait to go back.  I just used some common sense and didn't go into areas that are unsafe, basically the same way I enjoy my own great city, New Orleans.  I had not a single issue.

Moral of the story.  If you let Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson color your view of one of the great cities in the world so much so that you don't want to go there, enjoy your life in the suburbs, but IMO, that's not living.

 

[TripItUp]

Added Chicago to the title as another example of a liberal-ran city in alarming decline.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The amount that people allow politics to determine their feelings on certain places is puzzling to me

I took a trip to Chicago in May.  Had never been and couldn't wait.  The number of people I talked to that said something to the effect of "I can't believe you are going to that liberal #### hole" was astonishing to me.  Meanwhile, Chicago is an AWESOME CITY.  Great food.  Great sites.  Great beer.  Beautiful views of the city and Lake Michigan.  Very nice and friendly people.  And in May?  Beautiful weather!!!  I had an awesome trip and I got to fulfill a bucket list item going to see a game at Wrigley.  Can't wait to go back.  I just used some common sense and didn't go into areas that are unsafe, basically the same way I enjoy my own great city, New Orleans.  I had not a single issue.

Moral of the story.  If you let Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson color your view of one of the great cities in the world so much so that you don't want to go there, enjoy your life in the suburbs, but IMO, that's not living.

Don't confuse a trolling topic on a message board with someone actually believing any of the things they're saying.

 

[GoBirds]

You miss that emoji, huh?

Not a bit, if it made you so sensitive you had mash the report button and bother the mods with something so insignificant I’m happy it’s gone. Hope you are doing better friend.