Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
The baseball HOF is (mostly) based on stats, but the football HOF is based on narrative. So yes, there will be more HOF RBs when the narrative warrants it.
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Will we ever see another RB go into the Pro Football Hall of Fame? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Yogibear
- Start date
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Not that I have the lack of laziness needed to start a new poll, but I'm wondering if the right question that should be asked is "has it become to easy to run block"? If rookies can outperform or at least replicate stud RBs, doesn't that suggest that there's something fundamentally wrong with the rules governing run blocking? I find it hard to believe that if there was a shift to making run blocking more difficult that we wouldn't see a re-emergence of veteran studs with vision, power and cutting ability generating value above that of a rookie.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I think there are a couple of reasons why it is easier to run block these days. For starters, many linemen are the size of mountains. Not sure you can officiate against size. The other main issue is teams have to better defend the pass compared to the run these days, so there are more defensive backs and more undersized LBers to try to take away underneath routes. Put a 6'9", 380 lbs lineman on a 230 lbs LB and see what happens. Add in that teams have to defend against running / mobile QBs (which wasn't as big a concern previously), and there are more running lanes than ever before. There aren't many teams left that are happy to hand the ball off to a tailback all game.
Another issue is I don't think owners or coaches see this as a problem. They would rather have younger, cheaper, disposable backs to free up cap space someplace else. Paying bigger money to backs carries an injury risk component. They would have to pay those guys even if they are out for months at a time, so the benefit of a $10M RB may not be that great if he is on crutches all the time. The pitch for the higher priced guys will be that teams can get decent numbers from other backs, so they need to take a $6M deal with incentives instead of $12M a year.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
I'm of the mind that Gore's longevity is worthy of praise but doesn't make him a HOFer, much the same way Vinny Testaverde's longevity didn't make him a HOFer either.To be fair, 2 of the top-5 all-time in career yards just retired in the last 2 seasons. Not that career rushing yards is a particularly good measure of quality of play.Agreed, but it's crazy that of the Top 80 RB's in rushing yards all-time, only 4 are active and Henry leads active rushers in 42nd...
I'll always argue Frank Gore was never at any point a truly elite RB, he just played forever. Every RB in the top-16 in career yards was better than the guy who is currently #3.
Obviously there will be another HOF RB. It is possible that receiving ability becomes more of an important factor than rushing ability though. Especially as more RBs like CMC or Ekeler, become the prototype. We just saw a guy along those lines go #12 in the draft, and that very well may be the future of the position.
Teams building undersized defenses that have the range to defend the pass is a big reason why I think the Ravens/Titans have been playoff teams the last several years. Those teams have been built to take advantage of teams who just don't have the personnel to match up with them.
Honestly a team that builds around a mauling OL, running QBs (plural) and fast WRs (even if they are mediocre WRs) will probably be a successful offense most of the time, just based on the defenses they'll face. Its not as good of a long-term strategy as having a Franchise QB and an elite passing game, but its also a hell of a lot easier to do.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Henry need to put up a few more really good years to get in the HOF conversation. I don't know if he gets there, he's 28, and getting to that 30 number. He only has 1 All-Pro and 3 Pro Bowls. He needs to double those numbers.
I look at a guy like LeSean McCoy. 11,100 rush yards, 73 rush TDs, 15,000 yards from scrimmage, 16 rec TDs, 2 All-Pros, 6 Pro Bowls. I don't know if McCoy gets in, but that's where Henry needs to get to be in the conversation.
abrunn1133
Footballguy
I think the Hall of Fame has always judged players on a sliding scale. If you are the best, or one of the best, at your position for an extended amount of time, you are considered for the HoF. That being said, Adrian Peterson will be in the HoF.
babydemon90
Footballguy
If we compare RB numbers to the numbers of other backs waiting for their shot...then no. The only way modern NFL backs get in is if their numbers get taken into context.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
CMC is a lock
I disagree. I think for RBs longevity should play a part.I'm of the mind that Gore's longevity is worthy of praise but doesn't make him a HOFer, much the same way Vinny Testaverde's longevity didn't make him a HOFer either.To be fair, 2 of the top-5 all-time in career yards just retired in the last 2 seasons. Not that career rushing yards is a particularly good measure of quality of play.Agreed, but it's crazy that of the Top 80 RB's in rushing yards all-time, only 4 are active and Henry leads active rushers in 42nd...
I'll always argue Frank Gore was never at any point a truly elite RB, he just played forever. Every RB in the top-16 in career yards was better than the guy who is currently #3.
Obviously there will be another HOF RB. It is possible that receiving ability becomes more of an important factor than rushing ability though. Especially as more RBs like CMC or Ekeler, become the prototype. We just saw a guy along those lines go #12 in the draft, and that very well may be the future of the position.
Comment above ..Titans were in AFCG, and top seed. Idk that we value RBs in deep post season runs but Henry did have one or two.
Henry statistically shows a big decline this year but also statistically plays for one of the worst OCs ever and behind one of the worst OLs ever.
Last year, he was hit behind the LOS more than any RB in history and ran for 1500 or so.
I don't see the decline in him this year that probably everyone thinks happened. I could give a little bit but there is so much brutally bad with the offense. You're watching thinking let's see how Henry does and boom hit as the ball is handed to him. Another play he takes a handoff and three linemen are on the ground. You can't reasonably evaluate that as he's too old or he's fine or whatever.
For example- Today against the Hawks- he had nine, fifteen, twelve yard runs with authority and....where's the build upon that? OC doesn't call any. Just what look like end zone dive plays on first down. On those good runs, he pushed linemen and directed traffic. Stuff we've never seen on a pathetic sorta level.
This thread/trend certainly favors Henry. It's simple, if backs are only active seven years, they're not going to be better than him. Who gets 2k yards? He'd have reached whatever watermark by now to be in the HOF with this scenario.
If this trend did keep up, a lot of fans would be fine with reconsidering some backs with short careers. Alot of traditionalists and writers wouldn't. It would be quite a debate for sure.
As is, the Titans new GM is very cocky about drafting RBs and mentions Mitchell and Mason and Sermon (I'm rambling names maybe not each) as if they were awesome in SF and they're not using the Panthers RB. They had way bigger obvious needs than Spears and he absolutely loves that he drafted him. The son of a FB maybe there's something extra to it idk. I don't think he wants to keep Henry but won't publicly say that. The entire rest of the fan base, staff, and probably ownership wants him back in a huge way.
Spears can't run between the tackles and despite thousands of writers never watching him and claiming he can...he can't. He's like a cartoon running into a wall. It's not even debatable. So there's definitely a need for another. The Titans are very high on Chestnut but their motives aren't clear with him. He very well could beat out whoever the GM drafts soooo that would be a bad look for Henry's replacement (if so).
I think he stays. Henry and Hopkins are absolutely perfect for Levis' development.
Henry statistically shows a big decline this year but also statistically plays for one of the worst OCs ever and behind one of the worst OLs ever.
Last year, he was hit behind the LOS more than any RB in history and ran for 1500 or so.
I don't see the decline in him this year that probably everyone thinks happened. I could give a little bit but there is so much brutally bad with the offense. You're watching thinking let's see how Henry does and boom hit as the ball is handed to him. Another play he takes a handoff and three linemen are on the ground. You can't reasonably evaluate that as he's too old or he's fine or whatever.
For example- Today against the Hawks- he had nine, fifteen, twelve yard runs with authority and....where's the build upon that? OC doesn't call any. Just what look like end zone dive plays on first down. On those good runs, he pushed linemen and directed traffic. Stuff we've never seen on a pathetic sorta level.
This thread/trend certainly favors Henry. It's simple, if backs are only active seven years, they're not going to be better than him. Who gets 2k yards? He'd have reached whatever watermark by now to be in the HOF with this scenario.
If this trend did keep up, a lot of fans would be fine with reconsidering some backs with short careers. Alot of traditionalists and writers wouldn't. It would be quite a debate for sure.
As is, the Titans new GM is very cocky about drafting RBs and mentions Mitchell and Mason and Sermon (I'm rambling names maybe not each) as if they were awesome in SF and they're not using the Panthers RB. They had way bigger obvious needs than Spears and he absolutely loves that he drafted him. The son of a FB maybe there's something extra to it idk. I don't think he wants to keep Henry but won't publicly say that. The entire rest of the fan base, staff, and probably ownership wants him back in a huge way.
Spears can't run between the tackles and despite thousands of writers never watching him and claiming he can...he can't. He's like a cartoon running into a wall. It's not even debatable. So there's definitely a need for another. The Titans are very high on Chestnut but their motives aren't clear with him. He very well could beat out whoever the GM drafts soooo that would be a bad look for Henry's replacement (if so).
I think he stays. Henry and Hopkins are absolutely perfect for Levis' development.
jumper
Footballguy
If Steven Jackson isn't getting in, I can't see Derrick Henry getting in either. While one could argue that DHen had a couple peak years as a rusher better in comparison, the much better receiver SJax makes him the better RB overall IMHO. DHen could only dream of having a season like SJax's 2005 with 1,528 rushing and 806 receiving.
I would honestly go so far as to say that if Gore makes it, he's instantly one of worst players in it. Gore was an average RB for most of his career. He was rarely anything more. 2006 was great, 2009 was great, 2011-12 were solid. Beyond that, a lot of meh or worse. Of his 16,000 career yards, he was a liability for about a third of them. Gore's ENTIRE case, is longevity. At no point was he ever a top-3 player at his position, 2006 and 2009 were the only seasons he was top-5. Most of his career he wasn't a top-10 player at his position. I would argue Gore wasn't a top-15 RB who played between 2000 and now.
Serious question, if Gore had retired after the 2013 season would he be a HOFer? Because all he did after that was rack up 7 seasons of middling play that pushed his cumulative stats higher. To me his 2014-2020 run, should be essentially meaningless. To me, I'd have Gore behind the likes of Priest Holmes, Jamaal Charles, and LeSean McCoy. He's more in line with guys like Steven Jackson, Tiki Barber, MJD, and CJ2K. Well behind guys like Peterson or Lynch, and behind current players CMC and Henry.
As a side note, I'd argue Lynch doesn't get near enough love. He's the best RB of the last 15 years in my opinion (though CMC is building a case depending on the offense you want to run) who was a decent pass catcher, good pass blocker, an absolute short yardage hammer, a workhorse, and a highlight reel player for a consistent contender, that also has a ring.
Serious question, if Gore had retired after the 2013 season would he be a HOFer? Because all he did after that was rack up 7 seasons of middling play that pushed his cumulative stats higher. To me his 2014-2020 run, should be essentially meaningless. To me, I'd have Gore behind the likes of Priest Holmes, Jamaal Charles, and LeSean McCoy. He's more in line with guys like Steven Jackson, Tiki Barber, MJD, and CJ2K. Well behind guys like Peterson or Lynch, and behind current players CMC and Henry.
As a side note, I'd argue Lynch doesn't get near enough love. He's the best RB of the last 15 years in my opinion (though CMC is building a case depending on the offense you want to run) who was a decent pass catcher, good pass blocker, an absolute short yardage hammer, a workhorse, and a highlight reel player for a consistent contender, that also has a ring.
rockaction
Footballguy
I agree. People who love stats will point to his lack of them, but there wasn't a better all-around back during that time. He was Seattle's championship identity, and that they didn't give him the ball on the one or two in his second Super Bowl is still one of the greatest "What if the coaches had not been so foolish?" moment in the history of modern American sport.
He transcended the game like few ever have at that position.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Ezekiel Elliott? I'm a Cowboys fan and I would say no way.
Just a personal view, but I think 3-5 years of truly elite play (especially consecutively) is more valuable than a decade of ok to good years. I'm a big Priest Holmes/Sterling Sharpe guy and think their short term eliteness far exceeds what the career stats would say.
Then again, if I were in charge of the HOF, a lot of the recent inductees wouldn't have come close to making it, and someone like Sterling Sharpe would have been in 15+ years ago.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I agree that I would much rather see peak producers inducted over compilers that tacked on several below average years to boost their counting stats. (Also known as Hall of Very Good candidates). As far as Seahawks RB go, if only one could get in . . . Lynch or Alexander?
Penguin
Footballguy
He's in just due to his post playing persona and his hilarious commercials. He was the guy that was too shy to talk at any Super Bowl media day and now is one of the funniest guys ever., He's 1st ballot in my book on that alone.
Have you seen the clip when he was still in college at Cal and he hijacked the gold cart and drove it down the field pre/post game? That's HOF stuff right there
Penguin
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Personally. I think the narrative about the SB loss to the Patriots has made many think Lynch was this all-world RB when in reality he was just a very good one. He was only All-Pro twice (1st team once, 2nd team once), and wasn't even an All-Pro the season they won the Super Bowl (and there were four RBs that year who were All-Pro). I think he will have a tough time making it because of the way he treated the media, who loves to hold a grudge, but I think he still has a decent shot simply because there aren't many other HOF-worthy RBs from his era.
I'd say Lynch for sure. I think he was a better overall player, and a key for me, is that Lynch seemed to up his game when it mattered most, and Alexander was awful in big games. Alexander had some massive numbers, especially in 2005 (though he had no business winning MVP that year, people just got tired of voting for Manning, and for some reason didn't pivot to Palmer) but I think he takes a clear backseat to Lynch and is more in the Gore/MJD area.
I go the other way, that Lynch is underrated, because he only has 1 ring. I would also argue, All-Pro sometimes gets skewed due to counting stats. I can't speak for pre-90s, as I was born in 1984 and while highlights and stories tell a lot, sometimes defaulting to numbers makes sense, but I'd say especially from the mid 2000's onward, I think Fantasy Football has skewed some voting when it comes to QB/RB/WR/TE and probably guys with high sack/INT numbers.
I think Lynch was the best RB from 2010-2015. Better than Peterson as he wasn't as one dimensional, especially pass blocking which I'm sure any Vikings fan will attest. Lynch should have been a 3-time 1st team All-Pro in my opinion (2011, 2013, 2014), ironically the 1 season he was (2012) I actually don't think he should have been, as CJ Spiller should have gotten that spot I think.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Only lock I see is Peterson. He was the top of his profession at the time and has the numbers to back it up. Might be in the minority, but I don't think Gore is a HOF guy. Gore had only 3 seasons over 1200 rushing while Peterson had 7 of those season. Peterson had 8 double digit td seasons and Gore had 1. Gore was a good RB for many years but never elite. I think for HOF votes a player, at any position, must have a stint at being one of the best at his postion.
Active Guys? If all rb careers ended today I dont see any of the active rbs as HOF worthy. Henry is the closest for me but if his numbers are good enough then lots of other past rbs would have an argument. Henry's stint as an upper echelon rb checks the big box, now he needs a few more decent seasons to pad the stats. I love McCaffrey, but four 1000 yard rushing seasons for a RB just isn't enough. Dude only 27 so he has time.
Active Guys? If all rb careers ended today I dont see any of the active rbs as HOF worthy. Henry is the closest for me but if his numbers are good enough then lots of other past rbs would have an argument. Henry's stint as an upper echelon rb checks the big box, now he needs a few more decent seasons to pad the stats. I love McCaffrey, but four 1000 yard rushing seasons for a RB just isn't enough. Dude only 27 so he has time.
To be fair to CMC, while yes he only has four 1,000-yard rushing seasons, he went over 1,800 yards from scrimmage in all of those seasons as well, and unless he gets hurt, or rests will have his second season over 2,000 scrimmage yards this year. CMC has a 116 total YPG average in his career, which is 4th most in NFL history behind only Jim Brown (126) Barry Sanders (118) and Billy Sims (120) and Sims only played 60 career games.
Statorama
gangster
Curious if Zeke gets in
(The old “it’s the Hall of fame, not the Hall of stats argument)
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Yep. I get that. I also get the league has evolved. I think he needs more stats. At 27 he should get that. Henry. McCaffrey. Then a huge drop off of candidates.
Chubb is/was the only other real candidate, and we'll see how/if he bounces back from his devastating knee injury.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Two words. No and shot.
Eddie George not moving forward again won't help Henry or many of these RBs in today's game.
I still think there will be a sort of switch towards lesser total career years n stats but...he's absolutely in their way and keeping them from getting in if this continues.
No one has more yards or thousand yard seasons and...he's in the way
I still think there will be a sort of switch towards lesser total career years n stats but...he's absolutely in their way and keeping them from getting in if this continues.
No one has more yards or thousand yard seasons and...he's in the way
abrunn1133
Footballguy
I'm not saying this to defend Eddie, but to point out he's something of an obstruction for future classes. Many most? RBs people loved since, do not have better stats than him. He could become the barometer.
He had top five years.
He was third in rushing and first team all pro and got MVP votes.
I've said a few times- he was part of a golden era of RBs- no other era comes even close.
Here's 2000 by rushing yards. This is the end of near the end of the era imo.
2000 NFL Rushing | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Check out the 2000 NFL Rushing Stats and more on Pro-football-reference.com
www.pro-football-reference.com
Look at those HOFers on this list. If you push the link to show lines 21+....Do you see that top 25? No other era comes even remotely close to them. And this includes the best ever retiring early and not on the list in Barry.
I'd put Corey Dillion, Fred Taylor, and Eddie, probably Jamal too as a top or top 3 back in today's game, and the 70s and 80s too.
Priest and Mike Anderson are more towards what we have since. 4-5 notable years, not 8,9,10.
If Eddie played now, he'd have had 8 1000 yard seasons in a row. No one has done that since.
How appreciative would we be about a back that gets 400 carries and never misses a game til his final season too?
I've been here since day one and I know the drill- how many seasons in the top five. I get that. I've said it myself. Idk how many he has with PFR listing top ten and laziness to dig into those tens to see.
We'd talk of guys getting in later in the process- not making it initially- and Eddie would meet that criteria. That's where I stand with him for a long time. He IS that later type.
Intangibles are impressive like so many in this era that admired Sweetness. Tough as nails, does a lot for the community, let's his play do the talking for him. This might mean little now- it once was more significant- Ray Rice being celebrated later today and stuff like that might have us wind up getting back to it being significant again.
abrunn1133
Footballguy
He is not blocking Adrian Peterson from getting into the HoF. AP is in the top 5 all time in rushing yards and rushing TDs. Not sure Eddie George cracks the top 30 in either of those categories. Eddie George averaged 3.6 YPC for his career. He was fine, but to say some plodder like George is blocking anyone from getting into the HoF is an odd take.I'm not saying this to defend Eddie, but to point out he's something of an obstruction for future classes. Many most? RBs people loved since, do not have better stats than him. He could become the barometer.
He had top five years.
He was third in rushing and first team all pro and got MVP votes.
I've said a few times- he was part of a golden era of RBs- no other era comes even close.
Here's 2000 by rushing yards. This is the end of near the end of the era imo.
2000 NFL Rushing | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Check out the 2000 NFL Rushing Stats and more on Pro-football-reference.com
Look at those HOFers on this list. If you push the link to show lines 21+....Do you see that top 25? No other era comes even remotely close to them. And this includes the best ever retiring early and not on the list in Barry.
I'd put Corey Dillion, Fred Taylor, and Eddie, probably Jamal too as a top or top 3 back in today's game, and the 70s and 80s too.
Priest and Mike Anderson are more towards what we have since. 4-5 notable years, not 8,9,10.
If Eddie played now, he'd have had 8 1000 yard seasons in a row. No one has done that since.
How appreciative would we be about a back that gets 400 carries and never misses a game til his final season too?
I've been here since day one and I know the drill- how many seasons in the top five. I get that. I've said it myself. Idk how many he has with PFR listing top ten and laziness to dig into those tens to see.
We'd talk of guys getting in later in the process- not making it initially- and Eddie would meet that criteria. That's where I stand with him for a long time. He IS that later type.
Intangibles are impressive like so many in this era that admired Sweetness. Tough as nails, does a lot for the community, let's his play do the talking for him. This might mean little now- it once was more significant- Ray Rice being celebrated later today and stuff like that might have us wind up getting back to it being significant again.
Which current RBs have more yards and TDs than him?He is not blocking Adrian Peterson from getting into the HoF. AP is in the top 5 all time in rushing yards and rushing TDs. Not sure Eddie George cracks the top 30 in either of those categories. Eddie George averaged 3.6 YPC for his career. He was fine, but to say some plodder like George is blocking anyone from getting into the HoF is an odd take.I'm not saying this to defend Eddie, but to point out he's something of an obstruction for future classes. Many most? RBs people loved since, do not have better stats than him. He could become the barometer.
He had top five years.
He was third in rushing and first team all pro and got MVP votes.
I've said a few times- he was part of a golden era of RBs- no other era comes even close.
Here's 2000 by rushing yards. This is the end of near the end of the era imo.
2000 NFL Rushing | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Check out the 2000 NFL Rushing Stats and more on Pro-football-reference.com
Look at those HOFers on this list. If you push the link to show lines 21+....Do you see that top 25? No other era comes even remotely close to them. And this includes the best ever retiring early and not on the list in Barry.
I'd put Corey Dillion, Fred Taylor, and Eddie, probably Jamal too as a top or top 3 back in today's game, and the 70s and 80s too.
Priest and Mike Anderson are more towards what we have since. 4-5 notable years, not 8,9,10.
If Eddie played now, he'd have had 8 1000 yard seasons in a row. No one has done that since.
How appreciative would we be about a back that gets 400 carries and never misses a game til his final season too?
I've been here since day one and I know the drill- how many seasons in the top five. I get that. I've said it myself. Idk how many he has with PFR listing top ten and laziness to dig into those tens to see.
We'd talk of guys getting in later in the process- not making it initially- and Eddie would meet that criteria. That's where I stand with him for a long time. He IS that later type.
Intangibles are impressive like so many in this era that admired Sweetness. Tough as nails, does a lot for the community, let's his play do the talking for him. This might mean little now- it once was more significant- Ray Rice being celebrated later today and stuff like that might have us wind up getting back to it being significant again.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I'm not saying this to defend Eddie, but to point out he's something of an obstruction for future classes. Many most? RBs people loved since, do not have better stats than him. He could become the barometer.
He had top five years.
He was third in rushing and first team all pro and got MVP votes.
I've said a few times- he was part of a golden era of RBs- no other era comes even close.
Here's 2000 by rushing yards. This is the end of near the end of the era imo.
2000 NFL Rushing | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Check out the 2000 NFL Rushing Stats and more on Pro-football-reference.com
Look at those HOFers on this list. If you push the link to show lines 21+....Do you see that top 25? No other era comes even remotely close to them. And this includes the best ever retiring early and not on the list in Barry.
I'd put Corey Dillion, Fred Taylor, and Eddie, probably Jamal too as a top or top 3 back in today's game, and the 70s and 80s too.
Priest and Mike Anderson are more towards what we have since. 4-5 notable years, not 8,9,10.
If Eddie played now, he'd have had 8 1000 yard seasons in a row. No one has done that since.
How appreciative would we be about a back that gets 400 carries and never misses a game til his final season too?
I've been here since day one and I know the drill- how many seasons in the top five. I get that. I've said it myself. Idk how many he has with PFR listing top ten and laziness to dig into those tens to see.
We'd talk of guys getting in later in the process- not making it initially- and Eddie would meet that criteria. That's where I stand with him for a long time. He IS that later type.
Intangibles are impressive like so many in this era that admired Sweetness. Tough as nails, does a lot for the community, let's his play do the talking for him. This might mean little now- it once was more significant- Ray Rice being celebrated later today and stuff like that might have us wind up getting back to it being significant again.
Good luck finding a team in today's NFL that will give a RB who averages 3.6 YPC enough carries eight seasons in a row to come close to 1,000 yards. Ain't happening.
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