AcerFC
Footballguy
Don't want to take away from the thread but Hillis is the guy I dropped. Between injury and Crennel looking Droughns way, it was worth it
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William Powell (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Eire32
- Start date
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
Interesting to note that the team kept Powell and cut Alfonso. RB is not as complex as QB, so they may opt to give him a shot.
While this is true for the long-term, in the short-term, Smith might be the guy to be active, at first. He knows the system, and they know what he can do. As long as Williams is active, they might see Smith as the best bet to fill in for a few plays if Williams needs a breather, or to take over, mid-game, if Williams were to get dinged up.Keeping Powell over Smith (at the beginning of the season) probably had more to do with a concern that another team would sign Powell (to see what he could do) over Smith (since he's already demonstrated what he can do in the NFL).
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
2010 Kickoff Return Yards Per Return
1. Nick Williams (CT) 35.3
2. William Powell (KSST) 34.6
3. Quincy McDuffie (CFL) 32.2
4. Robbie Frey (CT) 31.4
5. Eric Page (TOL) 31.1
6. Marlon McClure (TXEP) 31.0
7. Jeremy Wright (LOU) 30.6
8. Coryell Judie (TXAM) 30.2
9. Vic Anderson (LOU) 30.2
10. Derrell Johnson-Koulianos (IA) 29.3
1. Nick Williams (CT) 35.3
2. William Powell (KSST) 34.6
3. Quincy McDuffie (CFL) 32.2
4. Robbie Frey (CT) 31.4
5. Eric Page (TOL) 31.1
6. Marlon McClure (TXEP) 31.0
7. Jeremy Wright (LOU) 30.6
8. Coryell Judie (TXAM) 30.2
9. Vic Anderson (LOU) 30.2
10. Derrell Johnson-Koulianos (IA) 29.3
yoadrian
Footballguy
Powell's a roster stash at the moment, he may have looked impressive in the preseason against second string defenses but Williams will get his chances. IMO the only way he gets the start is if Williams re-injures. IMO I think there are better guys to snipe (ie. Ballard, Jaquizz, D. Thomas/L. Miller, K. Bell)
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
Williams is definitely the man (20+). He showed something last week. His first two weeks he was getting 1 ypc and he pretty much fumbled away the Patriots game until Gronkowski and Gostkowski gave it back. We'll see what happens going forward.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Agree 100%. He is the handcuff at the moment. That is all. Handcuffs still have value though
ya i think hillis was def the proper drop given his injury.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
Arizona Cardinals DT Darnell Dockett (hamstring), TE Jim Dray (knee), TE Todd Heap (knee), FB Anthony Sherman (hamstring) and RB LaRod Stephens-Howling (groin) did not practice Wednesday, Sept. 26.
LSR nursing a groin injury...
LSR nursing a groin injury...
Wadsworth
Footballguy
oooo... good find. That makes this situation a bit more interesting.
Max Maximus
Footballguy
Taking a flier on him.. why not? All the ideal picks (Rodgers, Miller, D.Thomas, Richardson) have been scooped up.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
A handcuff behind a RB put on IR, and one fresh off of IR is what can help win you a championship.
Sure, he may never see the field in any more than a 4-8 touch capacity. But the second Williams goes down, it could be showtime.
When you got deep rosters, this is the EXACT type of pickup I loooooooove to have.
Let's see how she pans out.
Sure, he may never see the field in any more than a 4-8 touch capacity. But the second Williams goes down, it could be showtime.
When you got deep rosters, this is the EXACT type of pickup I loooooooove to have.
Let's see how she pans out.
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If I'm looking to pick up a sleeper running back that can come out of nowhere to make a difference, I'm looking at teams with good offensive lines and estalished running games. Arizona has a poor offensive line. Should Ryan Williams get injured and Powell takes the lead role, how effective will he be behind Arizona's line. I'd much prefer Hunter as an injury replacement who could make a difference. SF has both a fine offensive line and a committment to the run. Bernard Pierce is another example of a fine deep stash sleeper. If Ray Rice goes down Pierce could be very effective behind Baltimore's line. You have to question how effective Powell would be this year if given the job. In deep leagues I'll take a chance at hitting a HR by grabbing the #3 back on a good running team, before I take a chance on the #2 guy on a weak running team.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I can name quite a few handcuffs that Id rather have... anyone can.The point of this exercise is acknowledging that Powell has VERY LITTLE to overcome, in many of our opinions, to be the lead back. Beanie, OUT. Williams, playing poorly, fumbling and fresh off a serious injury/layoff. Arizona is a good team. Fantastic defense, which in turn leads to great field position. AZ has already punched in 2-4 "goalline" TDs off the top of my head this season. This is the type of stuff that could look pretty in your RB2/Flex spot week in and week out.I'm buying. big time. But we know that
zamboni
Footballguy
A bit of a tangent, but I tend to avoid overanalyzing offensive lines, since you never know if it's the RB, the line or some combination of both. Plus, we only know based upon what we read.Best to look at opportunity, but that's me.
A savvy owner could have done better than Powell for Chris Johnson. And just because this team has fluked into a 3-0 start doesn't negate the fact that the o-line is horrible and the offense as a whole is bad. If he somehow got the job, his upside is significantly less than a $*** ton. More like a fart ounce.I agree with the guy who pointed out the over reaction from guys clamoring for the next big thing. There was a lot of this chatter a little over a year ago when Ryan Williams was drafted. I do own Ryan Williams in one league and Powell is available but I'm not going to tie up two roster spots for one position on this crappy offense.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
I was referring to Warpig, not Powell.
Oh geez, ok, I was thinking that sounded too crazy to be true. But the fact remains that people are getting a little too excited in here about a 4th string guy. This team isn't good enough to get excited about any position.I was referring to Warpig, not Powell.
That reminds of the Pacells reference to Terry Glen. On a serious note, I agree with you and I picked him up myself.
'cstu said:For the life of me, I can't understand why The Thin Man isn't getting more love in this thread.
well, the general progression to stardom is like this:
1) make the team ---> check
2) get some decent reps as a back-up
3) Injury or poor performance by the starter---> check
4) step in and play well
so far, he hasnt got any carries yet.
Not saying hes untalented. I noticed what he did during exhibition too, but he has yet to see the field during the regular season with an underperforming and injury prone starter.
Beanie is now out, so opportunity may arise, but he hasnt played yet. It may be fair to assume he may get a few carries as a backup or part of a RBBC, but we are AT LEAST 3 or 4 games away from this kid lighting it up.
when I look at the Depth chart, it looks like this
Beanie wells (injured)
Ryan williams-2011 2nd round pick
Stephens Howling
Sherman. (FB)
I am thinking Williams played well in game 3, but put the ball on the ground in game 1 and 2, so they may not want to use him as a bell cow back.
I am thinking he & Howling will split carries with Sherman getting the goal line carries.
We need our man Ryan Williams to step in and perform well in his limited carries he should get in the next game or two before we go predicting he will light the world on fire.
All I am saying is all the ingredients are not yet there for a breakout. This may change in the next 3 or 4 games, and he is a player of interest for sure. I'm just not ready to jump on the bandwagon quite yet.
keep us posted as things develop with this guy. The next game or two should quickly tell us what the cards actually think of the kid.
I realize this is flexible
Powell was a monster in TC and starred in every Cards preseason game. Pretty impressive for a 24 year old undrafted FA who hadn't been on a football field for a real game in a couple years.
He seems like a nice story. Walk on JuCo transfer at K-State, worked hard to win a scholarship, Daniel Thomas was the star but Powell was a fan favorite before getting hurt his Senior Year. Went to the combine and pulled a hammy in his first 40 (4.63, but he's said to be like 4.4-4.5).
For redraft purposes, I want no part of this feel good thing. The Cards have $5M and a 2nd Round pick invested in Williams (and NFL GMs and Coaches are no better than the average Joe at understanding a sunk cost). So even if Ryan fumbles the first two weeks, he still had a solid opportunity waiting for himself when Beanie had the toe problem last weekend.
Just think back to Fred Jackson - Marshawn Lynch era in Buffalo. It took F-Jax three plus years to take the job away, and even then the Bills drafted Spiller. Nobody wants to believe a guy can come out of nowhere and be a stud RB. High draft picks with fat contracts are given 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances.
Love Williams opportunity in 2012, but if you watched Powell this summer, you have to feel good about holding him in dynasty.
It is also worth noting that this line is mostly berated for the number of sacks they give up. Run blocking is not the same as pass blocking. I will admit I have not scouted the line for this purpose. I did notice in the 1 quarter of play I did watch that the QB was scrambling for his life, but that wouldnt help us any for this purpose.also, sometimes the line gets berated due to the lack of a run game. I gotta admit, beanie hasnt been outstanding. So I dont know if one is caused by the other or if its the reverse.anyhow, I'm not making a judgement here, just giving you food for your thoughts. Perhaps an AZ homer can come on here and fill us in with more info so we can make a better call.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
Not than anybody cares except for maybe relative valuation, but I did sign Powell as the crossed out guys were not available.Maybe I should have snagged Bryce,but....
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Eire32
Footballguy
Ryan Williams is expecting 15-20 more snaps per game now that Beanie Wells (toe) is sidelined.Prior to Williams' August 2011 patellar tendon tear, he showed signs of difference-making talent. He's going to get a chance to put that on display for at least the next two months. Williams, who impressively rushed 13 times for 83 yards against the Eagles last week, now projects to push for 20 touches per week as long as his knee cooperates. He'll be backed up on early downs by William Powell.Oh geez, ok, I was thinking that sounded too crazy to be true. But the fact remains that people are getting a little too excited in here about a 4th string guy. This team isn't good enough to get excited about any position.I was referring to Warpig, not Powell.
pantherclub
Footballguy
So with Wells out and Williams moving to #1 who is #2 officially on the depth chart?From what limited plays I have seen of Williams I have not been impressed at all.Ryan Williams is expecting 15-20 more snaps per game now that Beanie Wells (toe) is sidelined.Prior to Williams' August 2011 patellar tendon tear, he showed signs of difference-making talent. He's going to get a chance to put that on display for at least the next two months. Williams, who impressively rushed 13 times for 83 yards against the Eagles last week, now projects to push for 20 touches per week as long as his knee cooperates. He'll be backed up on early downs by William Powell.Oh geez, ok, I was thinking that sounded too crazy to be true. But the fact remains that people are getting a little too excited in here about a 4th string guy. This team isn't good enough to get excited about any position.I was referring to Warpig, not Powell.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
Because there's something happening hereThat you don't understand
Do you? Mr. Ninja. ..
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Thanks for the thread.I'm not in disagreement. All I am saying is not to expect immediate results from the kid. I do not think a breakout is about to occur (yet) Player of interest- Yep. for sure. I wouldnt roster him in a redraft league, but in a dynasty league which typically have larger rosters, he may be worth taking so you have him ready when the opportunity knocks.'cstu said:
well, the general progression to stardom is like this:
1) make the team ---> check
2) get some decent reps as a back-up
3) Injury or poor performance by the starter---> check
4) step in and play well
so far, he hasnt got any carries yet.
Not saying hes untalented. I noticed what he did during exhibition too, but he has yet to see the field during the regular season with an underperforming and injury prone starter.
Beanie is now out, so opportunity may arise, but he hasnt played yet. It may be fair to assume he may get a few carries as a backup or part of a RBBC, but we are AT LEAST 3 or 4 games away from this kid lighting it up.
when I look at the Depth chart, it looks like this
Beanie wells (injured)
Ryan williams-2011 2nd round pick
Stephens Howling
Sherman. (FB)
I am thinking Williams played well in game 3, but put the ball on the ground in game 1 and 2, so they may not want to use him as a bell cow back.
I am thinking he & Howling will split carries with Sherman getting the goal line carries.
We need our man Ryan Williams to step in and perform well in his limited carries he should get in the next game or two before we go predicting he will light the world on fire.
All I am saying is all the ingredients are not yet there for a breakout. This may change in the next 3 or 4 games, and he is a player of interest for sure. I'm just not ready to jump on the bandwagon quite yet.
keep us posted as things develop with this guy. The next game or two should quickly tell us what the cards actually think of the kid.
I realize this is flexible
Powell was a monster in TC and starred in every Cards preseason game. Pretty impressive for a 24 year old undrafted FA who hadn't been on a football field for a real game in a couple years.
He seems like a nice story. Walk on JuCo transfer at K-State, worked hard to win a scholarship, Daniel Thomas was the star but Powell was a fan favorite before getting hurt his Senior Year. Went to the combine and pulled a hammy in his first 40 (4.63, but he's said to be like 4.4-4.5).
For redraft purposes, I want no part of this feel good thing. The Cards have $5M and a 2nd Round pick invested in Williams (and NFL GMs and Coaches are no better than the average Joe at understanding a sunk cost). So even if Ryan fumbles the first two weeks, he still had a solid opportunity waiting for himself when Beanie had the toe problem last weekend.
Just think back to Fred Jackson - Marshawn Lynch era in Buffalo. It took F-Jax three plus years to take the job away, and even then the Bills drafted Spiller. Nobody wants to believe a guy can come out of nowhere and be a stud RB. High draft picks with fat contracts are given 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances.
Love Williams opportunity in 2012, but if you watched Powell this summer, you have to feel good about holding him in dynasty.
Who would you rather own between him and Ronnie Hillman if both were available in your league?
Similar situation except Broncos have Mcgahee who is the starter but is banged up and could miss time. They drafted Hillman as opposed to an UDFA. Knowshow Moreno was a healthy scratch. Lance Ball is not a full time startable back.
SO in a redraft league who do you think has the potential to be come a startable fantasy back as the season goes on?
Powell or Hillman?
I do not have the bench depth to hold both and am not ready to drop HIllis yet for a flier on him as I think as the season goes on Hillis will get more work especially if KC is out of the running for the playoffs. Why risk reinjuring their top commodity?
Similar situation except Broncos have Mcgahee who is the starter but is banged up and could miss time. They drafted Hillman as opposed to an UDFA. Knowshow Moreno was a healthy scratch. Lance Ball is not a full time startable back.
SO in a redraft league who do you think has the potential to be come a startable fantasy back as the season goes on?
Powell or Hillman?
I do not have the bench depth to hold both and am not ready to drop HIllis yet for a flier on him as I think as the season goes on Hillis will get more work especially if KC is out of the running for the playoffs. Why risk reinjuring their top commodity?
bonesman
Footballguy
Yup, wasn't on my radar at all. Let's hope this thing can go 10+ pages now!
Good comparison. Although I strongly disagree that KC would sit Charles in the event that KC is out of the playoff race later. As long as Charles is healthy and plays well, Charles will get the lions share of the carries.To me it comes down to which starting RB you think will stay healthy, Willis or Charles.
Eire32
Footballguy
My pleasure. I don't post a lot but thought Powell merits discussion and a roster spot.I hope it works out for the best for everybody.
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This thread reminds me of the hype on players like Jeremiah Johnson or Bilal Powell last year. Players who the pool thought was the next big thing and just an injury / poor game away from taking the starter role but ended up not seeing any playing time. However, in reality, there are a lot more hurdles that the fans cannot see. I think the situation is this, barring injury, Ryan Williams has a lock as starter for the next 4 games and maybe 6-8. If Powell gets a chance, it would probably be toward the end of the year, week 12 or beyond. At that point, he would be of little use to teams unless they like to gamble the playoffs or are in desperate need of a RB. This team stuck with Tim Hightower and Beanie Wells even when they played poorly so I doubt they won't give Ryan Williams a chance. Players coming out of nowhere are more likely to do so when a team is losing and it is the end of the year where teams want to test their other players. I think that Powell's best chance to shine would probably be next year. Don't get me wrong though, if you have the space and rosters are deep then why not? However, if you don't and they aren't, then I probably would let him sit on waivers until he is more likely to play.
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need2know
Footballguy
my league doesn't have big rosters so I wont pick this guy up yet. But I am watching this situation closely. I too thank you for this threadMy pleasure. I don't post a lot but thought Powell merits discussion and a roster spot.I hope it works out for the best for everybody.
mightyeskimo
Footballguy
Just traded Wells for a draft pick in our dynasty league (12 teams, 8 keepers, 26 player roster). I've held onto him for a while. He went from my #4 rb to my #5 with the acquisition of Donald Brown. I was able to sign both Smith and Powell. I'll keep whomever is the #2 and let the other go. I'm done being screwed out of great performance at my rb4 by Beanie. lol. That was fun to say!
FinHead
Footballguy
I own Wells and Williams in our keeper league and grabbed Powell this morning. I then noticed Hillman was still available so I dropped Powell for Hillman. I have a hard time justifying owning 3 Cardinals RBs, especially when we're not sure if the o-line and the QB position is really good enough to keep them winning throughout the season AND Hillman was drafted.'CanaBuc said:
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Good comparison. Although I strongly disagree that KC would sit Charles in the event that KC is out of the playoff race later. As long as Charles is healthy and plays well, Charles will get the lions share of the carries.
To me it comes down to which starting RB you think will stay healthy, Willis or Charles.
Well never meant to imply they would sit Jamaal but rather why risk injury by feeding him the ball a ton if you are playing in relatively meaningless games.
Charles works best as a 15-20 touch back. He is not built to take punishment. He has had Thomas Jones to split carries with him and they brought Hillis in to do the same. Charles had 38 touches last weekend. That will get him killed if it happens much more. To get best production with minimizing injury risk HIllis or Draughn should take about 15 touches to Charles 18-20.
Hillman needs to learn the offense and prove he can pass block. The moment he does that he will be the number one. Mcgahee is not a receiving back is injury prone and old. He was a 3rd round pick so they have investment in him.
Powell is an UDFA whereas Ryan WIlliams is young and paid good money plus 2nd round pick. I think if you take a flier HIllman is the man not to mention Broncos have better run offence
To me it comes down to which starting RB you think will stay healthy, Willis or Charles.
Well never meant to imply they would sit Jamaal but rather why risk injury by feeding him the ball a ton if you are playing in relatively meaningless games.
Charles works best as a 15-20 touch back. He is not built to take punishment. He has had Thomas Jones to split carries with him and they brought Hillis in to do the same. Charles had 38 touches last weekend. That will get him killed if it happens much more. To get best production with minimizing injury risk HIllis or Draughn should take about 15 touches to Charles 18-20.
Hillman needs to learn the offense and prove he can pass block. The moment he does that he will be the number one. Mcgahee is not a receiving back is injury prone and old. He was a 3rd round pick so they have investment in him.
Powell is an UDFA whereas Ryan WIlliams is young and paid good money plus 2nd round pick. I think if you take a flier HIllman is the man not to mention Broncos have better run offence
but in a redraft if you had to choose Powell or HillmanI have all three (Dynasty)Drafted Hillman in the 4th
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
1) Whisenhunt like RBBC2) all of the risks previously identified with RWSure it's a flyer, but some of us got some games out of guys like Justin Forsett, Jackie Battle and Samkon Gado
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Amused to Death
Footballguy
'Buck Bradcanon said:
Threads like this are what make the 'pool so valuable imo.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
It was threads just like this that pointed me to Jimmy Graham and Arian Foster. Some pan out, others don't. When they do pan out, I prefer they're on my roster. Easily cut if they bust. No one's making a big investment.
just_want_2_win
Footballguy
Thanks to this thread, I put Powell on my watch list. Powell definitely has a shot at being relevant due to all the reasons stated in this thread regarding Williams.
I drafted Ryan Williams. I cut him after week 2 due to other pressing concerns on my team. Of my possible cuts, he seemed the most expendable due his poor preseason and terrible first two regular season games (crucial fumbles and poor running). Also he looked like he was in a three-way split with Beanie and LSH.
Not only that, Williams was contending with the same problems Powell would face if he ascends to the #1 spot:
1) AZ's O-line problems
Take a look at these stats:
[*]Football Outsiders ranks AZ's O line as 31 out of 32 teams in run blocking. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
[*]AZ ranks 12th in rush attempts. http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/statistics/team/rushing/sort/rushing_attempts/2012
[*]But it is only 27th in yards gained. http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/statistics/team/rushing/sort/rushing_yards/2012
[*]And is 30th in YPC, averaging a meager 2.8 a clip. http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/statistics/team/rushing/sort/yards_per_rush/2012
2) Tough schedule
AZ's upcoming 4 games are not terribly easy ones: Mia, @StL, Buf, @Min, SF. Things ease a bit weeks 9-12 (bye in 10). But the FF playoff stretch is so-so, including @Sea in Wk 14 and Chi in Wk 16.
Of course no matter what Williams (or Powell) will have a lot of worth because they'll be getting a lot of carries and in this day and age that alone is valuable. But for the reasons I mentioned here, keep expectations in check not only for Week 4 but overall for any AZ RB.
Rotoworld's Week 4 Rankings said it well:
I drafted Ryan Williams. I cut him after week 2 due to other pressing concerns on my team. Of my possible cuts, he seemed the most expendable due his poor preseason and terrible first two regular season games (crucial fumbles and poor running). Also he looked like he was in a three-way split with Beanie and LSH.
Not only that, Williams was contending with the same problems Powell would face if he ascends to the #1 spot:
1) AZ's O-line problems
Take a look at these stats:
[*]Football Outsiders ranks AZ's O line as 31 out of 32 teams in run blocking. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
[*]AZ ranks 12th in rush attempts. http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/statistics/team/rushing/sort/rushing_attempts/2012
[*]But it is only 27th in yards gained. http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/statistics/team/rushing/sort/rushing_yards/2012
[*]And is 30th in YPC, averaging a meager 2.8 a clip. http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/statistics/team/rushing/sort/yards_per_rush/2012
2) Tough schedule
AZ's upcoming 4 games are not terribly easy ones: Mia, @StL, Buf, @Min, SF. Things ease a bit weeks 9-12 (bye in 10). But the FF playoff stretch is so-so, including @Sea in Wk 14 and Chi in Wk 16.
Of course no matter what Williams (or Powell) will have a lot of worth because they'll be getting a lot of carries and in this day and age that alone is valuable. But for the reasons I mentioned here, keep expectations in check not only for Week 4 but overall for any AZ RB.
Rotoworld's Week 4 Rankings said it well:
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Frank Black
Footballguy
Cracker you've been around this board long enough to know better than to be so sarcastic without adding any analysis or constructive feedback whatsoever. I remember seeing this kind of sarcasm from some people in the J. Battle thread last year. I also remember Battle helping some owners in need win a game or 2 last year.Powell's supporters in this thread are not annointing him as the immediate starter or predicting him to go to the hall of fame. His supporters are pointing out his talent and a potential opportunity for Powell to get a chance given that he's behind an unproven RB whose immediate backup is now on IR. I thought we encouraged this kind of discussion around here. I see this thread as one of many that encourages being ahead of the curve.
There are no meaningless games in the NFL. They'll gameplan to win every week, regardless of their record.That may very well mean divvying up the RB touches to keep everyone fresh and healthy.Heck if anything, they're more likely to overextend their best guy in the last game than rest him, since there's an entire offseason to recover.
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