With the #2 Overall Pick (1 Viewer)

[Bob Magaw]

after debating the merits of jake long & gholston (in the mix with c. long & dorsey) in recent weeks, my current thinking...

the rams were second to last in the NFL in total defense...

the rams were 13th worst against the run, & 12th worst against the pass...

chris long would help against the pass, AND the run...

ditto for dorsey...

gholston may be more of a pass rush specialist (maybe even a situational player at first), & is less likely to help against the run...

* for that matter, jake long, when viewed in this light, might help more in the rams run game than the pass game, if in fact he is more of a RT than LT type... he might be more one dimensional in the sense gholston is...

chris long & dorsey may have most maximal impact in terms of the versatility they bring to the table, & their ability to help in multiple ways...

they seem for their respective positions to be the most COMPLETE players, with most encompassing skill sets...

** ellis is arguably a very complete DT, though i think not quite as highly graded as dorsey...

a few expansions/clarifications...

the BPA/positional need debate doesn't so much come into play here, as there are a few similarly graded players atop the draft, & the rams have so many needs, that BPA AND positional needs intersect a few ways...

at DE, little has been very good in the past, & is trying to return from an injury-marred season... but he is ancient, & may be reitiring after the '09 season (he reportedly told jim thomas he will retire after his current contract ends... after '09)...

james hall underwhelmed last season & was released... he re-signed at a more cap-friendly deal, & he may have been hurt by a high ankle sprain last season, so perhaps he can rebound & show some semblance of the form he flashed at times in DET... but he is also old...

& STL really has no viable looking starting DEs on roster (adeyanju hasn't shown much so far)...

the rams also may have a few decent young DTs on roster with carriker (if they leave him there) & ryan...

so DE seems to be more pressing need... but MIA is expected by many to take long...

i like dorsey next best... carriker, a college DE, could slide outside, opposite little... & this could actually make the team stouter against the run... so some of the angst about having no good young DEs might be mitigated if they move carriker, a player already on the roster & a high pick last season, to DE...

if you check their measurables, i think carriker & long were similar in a lot of ways... i'll try & copy them below...

 

[MAC_32]

I don't think Gholston should be in the conversation. I believe it should be between Dorsey, both Long's, and maybe Ellis. I think Chris Long should be at the top of the list.

 

[Cookiemonster]

I agree that for the Rams (and really any team picking that high) that C.Long is probably the best, safest, all-around most team-improving player but I think that Dorsey and to an = or < extent Ellis could be just as valuable to the Rams in that it would allow Carriker to go to his "built for position" of LE so you could be improving both the pass and rush D equally if not more.

 

[Bob Magaw]

aforementioned measurables comparison for carriker & c. long... remarkably similar, though long didn't have bench reps number in below compilation... long had more explosive broad jump with similar vertical, & the timed drills were very close... carriker is taller, put on weight, & is now presumably slower, though he could no doubt lose weight if he slides back to DE...

* BTW, the above endorsement of dorsey presupposes his physical/medical checks out, especially on the stress fracture... but he seemed to look good at his pro day, answering some lingering questions after having to skip the senior bowl & his Combine workout...

Carriker - combine results from nfldraftscout.com:

Height - 6'6"

Weight - 296

40 yrd dash - 4.90 (4.72 Pro Day)

20 yrd dash - 2.81 (2.70 Pro Day)

10 yrd dash - 1.60 (1.58 Pro Day)

225 lb bench reps - 33

Vertical jump - 33.5"

Broad jump - 9'2"

20 yrd shuttle - 4.18

3-cone drill - 7.06

C. Long - combine results from nfldraftscout.com:

Height - 6'3"

Weight - 280

40 yrd dash - 4.75

20 yrd dash - 2.70

10 yrd dash - 1.53

225 lb bench reps - (skipped - thumb injury)

Vertical jump - 34

Broad jump - 10'4"

20 yrd shuttle - 4.21

3-cone drill - 7.02

* i agree if chris long is gone, it does make it easier to grab dorsey (instead of gholston), if they can fill a hole at DT AND DE simultaneously, by shifting carriker to his more natural position outside... that might make the rams better at TWO positions even more so than if they get chris long & leave carriker at DT...

** BTW, i talked to frank coyle recently when i ordered my guide... he has rams taking dorsey second, even with long still on board... i prefer long, but the more i think about it, dorsey makes a lot of sense... though for the future, when little & hall are gone, chris long could look really good, & this has to be looked at long term... STL is not just a player away from a deep playoff run, imo, so this should be viewed as a few year retooling, involving draft, free agency, trades...

anyways, frank was sceptical of taking gholston as high as #2... thought he might be one dimensional, take a while to develope, & was riskier due to not being as consistent (i forgot to ask him his rationale for taking dorsey over long, maybe i will next time)...

STL could be pretty good at DT with a few potentially good young ones in carriker (if they choose to leave him there... if he developes, he could wreak havoc from inside, & may be more of athletic mismatch than he is on outside) & ryan... & stud DEs are REALLY hard to find in draft, & very difficult to acquire in free agncy... many never make it but are locked up by team, & occasional guy like kerney is expensive...

*** another thing to recommend dorsey... as rare as blue chip DEs are, potentially great pass rushing DTs might be even more rare... & most QBs say the worst kind of pressure is up the middle...

both these guys have rare accolades... i have heard c. long called one of the most technically sound DE prospects scouts have seen... also, one of the best grades ever for hand technique... dorsey has been called probably the best DT prospect to come down the pike in a few years, and compared by some scouts to sapp...

 

[ffwebster]

I don't think Gholston should be in the conversation. I believe it should be between Dorsey, both Long's, and maybe Ellis. I think Chris Long should be at the top of the list.

I totally agree...

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Whichever Long the Dolphins don't take. If they take neither, I'd rather have Jake.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Whichever Long the Dolphins don't take. If they take neither, I'd rather have Jake.

if i was confident he could be an above average LT i might agree... i'm increasingly hearing that he is an elite RT prospect, but might not be exceptional as LT...second overall money is a lot, if indeed he is a better fit at RT...now, if he is as good an athlete as jamaal brown, that might be a hopeful comp player for long to end up at LT...my current rams board ...1A- c. long 1B - dorsey2 - j. long3A - gholston3B - ellis** perhaps i should be looking at ellis more closely, given the rationale for taking dorsey...

 

[Sweet Love]

Whichever Long the Dolphins don't take. If they take neither, I'd rather have Jake.

if i was confident he could be an above average LT i might agree... i'm increasingly hearing that he is an elite RT prospect, but might not be exceptional as LT...second overall money is a lot, if indeed he is a better fit at RT...now, if he is as good an athlete as jamaal brown, that might be a hopeful comp player for long to end up at LT...my current rams board ...1A- c. long 1B - dorsey2 - j. long3A - gholston3B - ellis** perhaps i should be looking at ellis more closely, given the rationale for taking dorsey...

Not to high-jack, but would Jake Long have more value for a team with a left-handed QB...I am out of the loop as to which teams that may be, but are one of those teams in the Top 10 (and in need) who could conceivably trade up for him?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

if i was confident he could be an above average LT i might agree... i'm increasingly hearing that he is an elite RT prospect, but might not be exceptional as LT...

I think that's just people repeating what one person said one time to his sister's cousin at a 7-11 after a night of binge drinking.Given the choice between Jake Long and Glenn Dorsey, I think I'd take Dorsey.

 

[Cookiemonster]

my current rams board ...

1A- c. long

1B - dorsey

2 - j. long

3A - gholston

3B - ellis*

* perhaps i should be looking at ellis more closely, given the rationale for taking dorsey...

I haven't watched both DTs more than a few times each, but Dorsey looked like he could play either tackle spot and looked much stronger in the upper body (tossing OL aside a la Reggie White) where Ellis looked like he probably has a better 1st step (though Dorsey is no slouch) and may be a slightly better 3 technique. Which DT you like probably depends more on team need as I see them as 1A, 1B. I didn't watch much of the Rams last year but I'm assuming Carriker is playing the 3 so either of these guys would allow the move back. J.Long may be the biggest need, but either DT should improve the team more and at the #2 spot you have to get bang for the buck. Gholston is not IMO a #2 pick, but a very impressive athelete and may be a better pass rusher than C.Long but not enough better to make up for the other positives Long brings to his game.1A-Dorsey

1B-Ellis

3A-J.Long

3B-C.Long

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I think the no brainer is Jake long here myself

Hasnt STL burned like 3 straight first rounders on DL's?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

if i was confident he could be an above average LT i might agree... i'm increasingly hearing that he is an elite RT prospect, but might not be exceptional as LT...

I think that's just people repeating what one person said one time to his sister's cousin at a 7-11 after a night of binge drinking.Given the choice between Jake Long and Glenn Dorsey, I think I'd take Dorsey.

I think the no brainer is Jake long here myself

Hasnt STL burned like 3 straight first rounders on DL's?

I meant to say given a choice between CHRIS Long and Dorsey that I think I'd take Dorsey.If I'm the Rams, I think I take Jake Long before either of those two.

Difficult choice though.

 

[TheFanatic]

Jake Long is not the sort of lineman that Saunders likes. Saunders like smaller, faster, mobile linemen. I don't think Jake fits that mold. So to me that make the Rams go D-Line here unless they can get some fool to move up a few spots for McFadden (or the Raiders to move up to get Howie's kid). In which case they still go D-Line and enjoy the extra picks....

 

[Christo]

Dorsey. Although if I were the GM picking at #1, he wouldn't be there.

By far the best player in this draft.

 

[Chaka]

I don't see Parcells passing on Chris Long. Although I hope he falls to the Raiders.

Given the choice, Chris Long is the player to target.