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Witten's days as elite TE over? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter mrpnlu
- Start date
JahVideo_Kilt_Radio_Star
Footballguy
If outside top 5 means no longer elite, then yes.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Dallas needs him to block. He's still a great tight end but he can't go out for passes all the time like some of the other elite TEs. I don't see this changing, so as far as fantasy football his elite days are over.
Football Jones
Footballguy
He's only 28. I'd bet a lot of FFers would guess 30, maybe more. Witten was just 20 years old when he was drafted.
He'll always be a prominent figure in their passing game as long as Romo is the QB. Witten also caught 7 passes in the last game. As hard as it is to imagine, he's probably underrated right now.
He'll always be a prominent figure in their passing game as long as Romo is the QB. Witten also caught 7 passes in the last game. As hard as it is to imagine, he's probably underrated right now.
Reports from dallas newspaper saying Witten will be used some as a fullback tomorrow due to injury to regular fullback..? what does this mean? I didn't think Dallas used the fullback much. Does this prevent Witten from running his normal routes, or is it only a short yardage running play thing..?
Dought Man
Footballguy
He never was a speedster, but the past 10 games or so, he looks like he is carrying an invisible piano on his back when he runs routes. He's a lot easier to defend then he ever was. Still, he is Romo's boy and with that crap O-line...he should still get his 5-6 catches per game and 4 tds at minimum this year.
Some insight on the above would be appreciated so I can decide whether to run with Witten in my lineup tomorrow in my 20-team league or bench him for... ugh... Jermaine Gresham.
Reports are he's playing fullback, not some. They also don't state that Martellus Bennett (thread on page 1 here) will be playing the starting TE role. Gotta be careful with assumptions but I'd have made the sameBennett has been very good for a backup TE, maybe even excellent, this year. The Titans LBs are weak and their secondary is very strong. The Cowboys just might have a good gameplan up their sleeve
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Tony Jabroni
Footballguy
BoerumHill
Footballguy
Obvs 3 games is a small sample size - plus Dallas just had their bye - but he is 22nd in RZ targets amongst TEs. Two the first game, none since. Even Martellus Bennett has three RZ looks.
Except a year ago he was 29th among TEs. So its not a small sample size or recent development; its been a trend for awhile.
Except in 2008, out of 120 targets, only 4 were Red Zone targets. So its no a small sample size or recent development or even a trend.
It's who Jason Witten is these days. An average TE who blocks on passing downs and is an afterthought once the Cowboys are inside the 20.
Except a year ago he was 29th among TEs. So its not a small sample size or recent development; its been a trend for awhile.
Except in 2008, out of 120 targets, only 4 were Red Zone targets. So its no a small sample size or recent development or even a trend.
It's who Jason Witten is these days. An average TE who blocks on passing downs and is an afterthought once the Cowboys are inside the 20.
Heisman187
Footballguy
Don't forget Martellus Bennett who has more raw ability than Witten himself. We may be beginning to see the changing of the guard from Witten to Marty B. I saw another thread where Bennett was described as "Antonio Gates-lite" and I agree.
the spanker
Footballguy
I guess you guys were saying the same around this time last season too, right?
Like another poster stated, Witten is still Romo's go to guy and he didn't look like he was losing any love the last game they played.CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
I think it's fairly obvious that the cowboys point of attack blocking is a issue. Witten is starting to take snaps at fb. He hasn't been heavilly involved in the pass offense so far this season, and he never has been a TD guy or a red zone target.I cut him for Greg Olsen two weeks ago.And I'm pretty sure by the end of the year it'll have payed dividends.I guess you guys were saying the same around this time last season too, right?
Downontheupside
Footballguy
Cutting Witten for Olsen? What are you in a 4 team league? Witten will still be solid in PPR leagues. That's about it. 7 catches last game, 5 the game before that and he got hurt with plenty of time left in the 4th quarter. I can't see how we can make a judgement that he's not producing, or not being utilized as much in the offense after 3 games.I think it's fairly obvious that the cowboys point of attack blocking is a issue. Witten is starting to take snaps at fb. He hasn't been heavilly involved in the pass offense so far this season, and he never has been a TD guy or a red zone target.I cut him for Greg Olsen two weeks ago.And I'm pretty sure by the end of the year it'll have payed dividends.I guess you guys were saying the same around this time last season too, right?Like another poster stated, Witten is still Romo's go to guy and he didn't look like he was losing any love the last game they played.
CompetitiveEdgeFootball
Footballguy
I wish I could find a 4 team league. It'd be fun I bet.
Standard scoring league.
Olsen is a better bet to score tds. However coming off a bye week, installing Witten as the fullback may not be a short term idea. I don't need to restate that the offensive line play is a team weakness, but I will anyway. Martellus bennett may not be gates or Finley but he's an athletic pass catching play maker in his own right. I would argue not a debilitating downgrade from witten.
From what we have seen from the chicago rushing offense.... Well... There really isn't one. This means more short targets on early downs. Probably not to Knox and Hester, they're not short route type WRs. Forte will see more passes, as will Olsen. (forte may actually start to lose series to Taylor, as he is a superior pass blocker, and could be no worse running the ball.)
So I don't see Witten finishing the year with a vast amount more yards than Olsen. It's very likely Olsen finishes with more TDs.
Standard scoring league.
Olsen is a better bet to score tds. However coming off a bye week, installing Witten as the fullback may not be a short term idea. I don't need to restate that the offensive line play is a team weakness, but I will anyway. Martellus bennett may not be gates or Finley but he's an athletic pass catching play maker in his own right. I would argue not a debilitating downgrade from witten.
From what we have seen from the chicago rushing offense.... Well... There really isn't one. This means more short targets on early downs. Probably not to Knox and Hester, they're not short route type WRs. Forte will see more passes, as will Olsen. (forte may actually start to lose series to Taylor, as he is a superior pass blocker, and could be no worse running the ball.)
So I don't see Witten finishing the year with a vast amount more yards than Olsen. It's very likely Olsen finishes with more TDs.
The fullback is injured.As stated above, the Titans secondary is very good with three former pro-bowlers, a good veteran in Fuller and a rook that thinks he can intercept every pass(which would be a horrible habit on a lesser team). Their WRs can be matched up against for a change. Their TEs can't. It creates a major mismatch.Good FBs block (especially on that last second of the actual block) with a reckless abandon for their body, few players in the NFL give it all on a block like most FBs do. This is why I don't like H-backs. Witten may be a decent FB, for all I know, but I highly doubt he launches at a defender to take him out of a play. Barber runs like a tough sonofagun often times. He might be better at playing the FB role, it sure appears like his mindset/style of play is more suited for it. However, the Boys clearly seem to want all their playmakers on the field. Witten at FB is probably the only way to do that.The Boys went to Roy last game and, surprisingly enough, he rocked. Hopefully Garrett's is switching to an O where the predominant theme is exploiting mismatches. FWIW Finnegan sat out much of the preseason and although he's a top 3 CB usually, he has looked rusty and been terrible on a few plays each game-terrible. It's been a long time since team's picked on him, but the Cowboys have to try.That rookie CB Verner is very susceptible to just about every pump fake and the deep ball as well. McCourty (injured CB) started above Verner because he got burned on deep plays. Verner was easily the 2nd best CB in camp otherwise, but it was that much of a concern for Fisher. If the Titans safeties are preoccupied with this TE and FB shenanigans, the Boys are definitely going deep a few times. Witten could be a decoy of sorts this week.But again, the Titans safeties have both been pro bowlers so they better not attack them deep if either of those two are playing the outfield. So after the "holy cow is Vince Young popular in Texas" opening, that's what I think will be key to the game-Romo making the right choices versus the Titans safeties.I think it's fairly obvious that the cowboys point of attack blocking is a issue. Witten is starting to take snaps at fb.I guess you guys were saying the same around this time last season too, right?Like another poster stated, Witten is still Romo's go to guy and he didn't look like he was losing any love the last game they played.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Witten will be fine
BoerumHill
Footballguy
You mean when he was a consensus #1 ADP and finished as TE8?Correct.Oh, Witten will be fine. 12 Red Zone targets and 6 TDs in his last 35 games means nothing. Don't panic, nothing to worry about.I guess you guys were saying the same around this time last season too, right?
DoubleG
Footballguy
For those towing the "Witten will be fine" line, you are ignoring several important changes in the Cowboy offense ocompared to the last few years.1) Their O-line has been bad - Witten is a very good blocker and the offense has been forced to keep him in more to block.2) The Cowboys used their 1st pick in the draft this past season to draft a very talented WR - to add to the talented Austin and decently talented Roy Williams, whom they sought in a trade. With 3 good WRs in the mix, Witten's looks will be less than it had been, simply because of the fact that they simply don't "need" him as much.3) The running game has been bad - see #1.Darth Cheney
Footballguy
Witten is a better football player than fantasy football player. He still has a good receiving skill set......but he is better for the team in the role he is in now.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
I agree with this. I do think he will be more involved in the red zone than he was last year, but the days of being the #1 or #2 target on every pass play are over.
SteelerMurf
Footballguy
Witten is now my bye week filler for Zach Miller.
I kinda reluctantly drafted Witten cause it was PPR and he has great value there. but may he hasn't had a TD in forever.
I kinda reluctantly drafted Witten cause it was PPR and he has great value there. but may he hasn't had a TD in forever.
A panic stricken GM dropped him last week and I used my #3 waiver wire priority to grab him. Since I already own Gates (tight end) and Clark (Flex), I figured I would cash him for a solid RB2 since I am quite thin with only Benson & Bradshaw. Somebody forgot to tell Kareem Huggins that the season has started.
Perhaos I could have waited and sold him for more but considering his injuries, trading Witten straight up for Marion Barber looked like a solid deal.
Perhaos I could have waited and sold him for more but considering his injuries, trading Witten straight up for Marion Barber looked like a solid deal.
I went looking for the quote but couldn't find it, but somewhere on FBG a quote was posted from the team, possibly from Romo, discussing how the offense this year is playing different and its more about exploiting the defense's weaknesses. They went on to say something along the lines of ~some guys may get 10 looks 1 week and none the next, and everyone on the squad knows it~
Witten has been banged up this year, they have more talent at WR now than ever during Witten's career, and he is a veteran guy who will do what the team needs to win without crying about it.
I drafted him at TE after my top 2 targets went earlier than expected, then immediately regretted it.
I am tempering my expectations but i'm certainly not dropping him. I think his days of 10 catches, 100+ yards may be over though.
FWIW i'm starting Brandon Pettigrew this week, despite his dropsies, in the makings of a shootout in DET vs STL.
Witten has been banged up this year, they have more talent at WR now than ever during Witten's career, and he is a veteran guy who will do what the team needs to win without crying about it.
I drafted him at TE after my top 2 targets went earlier than expected, then immediately regretted it.
I am tempering my expectations but i'm certainly not dropping him. I think his days of 10 catches, 100+ yards may be over though.
FWIW i'm starting Brandon Pettigrew this week, despite his dropsies, in the makings of a shootout in DET vs STL.
the spanker
Footballguy
Jason Witten just texted me from the sidelines late in the game to tell you and everyone else who made negative comments about him he's still Tony's boy.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
nice stats today
geoff8695
Footballguy
Ooofff!Obviously not having Cutler makes a big difference for Olsen, but given the timing of your post and the events that unfolded today I couldn't help myself.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
If today's output is what we can expect from Witten when he 'lines up at FB', I hope he switches his number to 44 immediately.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
12 catches for 140 & a TD in the last 2 games. Like I said earlier, he's actually underrated right now.
The Cowboys have a lot of weapons & that means opposing Ds won't be able to bracket Witten like they used to. Lots of people look at the extra weapons as a negative, but Witten is a talented receiver who can take advantage of holes in the D. And we know Romo likes throwing to him.
At 28 years old, I like Witten to be a top TE in dynasty leagues for quite awhile.
The Cowboys have a lot of weapons & that means opposing Ds won't be able to bracket Witten like they used to. Lots of people look at the extra weapons as a negative, but Witten is a talented receiver who can take advantage of holes in the D. And we know Romo likes throwing to him.
At 28 years old, I like Witten to be a top TE in dynasty leagues for quite awhile.
Touchdown Syndrome
Footballguy
Not lost is the fact that football games are played with 4 quarters.
Not that it matters, but no he didn't.
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Max Maximus
Footballguy
I personally think Witten and Barber's days as fantasy studs are over.
the spanker
Footballguy
All I know is Witten was target alot today to be forgotten in that offense.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
glad I don't play in leagues where owners cut studs after 3 games...geoff8695 said:Ooofff!Obviously not having Cutler makes a big difference for Olsen, but given the timing of your post and the events that unfolded today I couldn't help myself.
Depends on your league, in my 12 team league where it's 1 pt per 20 yards, Whitten is not an elite TE and hasn't been for a couple of years. No enough TD's for my league. He's all the way down at around the 18th TE and 50 pts behind Gates. There are free agents with more points than him plus we have very short benches(4 bench spots) so nobody has more than 1 TE.glad I don't play in leagues where owners cut studs after 3 games...geoff8695 said:Ooofff!Obviously not having Cutler makes a big difference for Olsen, but given the timing of your post and the events that unfolded today I couldn't help myself.
the spanker
Footballguy
Can't help but ask, how's that Olsen guy (zero catches last two games) been for you lately?glad I don't play in leagues where owners cut studs after 3 games...Ooofff!Obviously not having Cutler makes a big difference for Olsen, but given the timing of your post and the events that unfolded today I couldn't help myself.
sspunisher
Footballguy
Witten is definitely overrated (now anyway, not back then). But his glory years of running down the field without a helmet are long gone. Cowboys need to START to phase him out ASAP, or at least move him to FB where he'd be more of a mismatch. Somehow Martellus needs to get more touches to see if he's got that GATES type of potential. I see Bennett making some stupid mistakes but I think heavy dose of playing time can cure a lot of those. Yea the whole BFF thing was cute when Owens was there and Witten was catching a crap load of balls, but everyone knows the new BFF is Miles.
He's a Jack of all trades but he is replaceable. He does everything pretty well but nothing great, exception probably being finding a soft spot in a zone, he's great at that. And why do you think he never gets redzone looks? He's not athletic enough to be a jump-ball TE, and he releases so slow off the line. Absolutely horrible acceleration, even for a TE. If he runs a curl 1 yard short of the first down, 9/10 times he won't be able to turn around and take a step fast enough before he gets tackled. He's only good if Romo hits him in stride down the seam, which doesn't seem like it's happening as much as it used to.
I'm a huge Cowboys fan, but man I've seen enough from Witten. He's good for a false start penalty or at least some kind of penalty almost every single game. And I know you Cowboys fans have seen that dreaded sidestep stiff arm thing he always tries. He (almost) ALWAYS gets tripped up. And I dunno maybe it's just me but I see him giving up on balls that are slightly out of reach. Maybe it's his reaction time but it's happening more often where I see a ball thrown somewhat out of reach and he won't even make a play for it. Modern day TEs can make those catches, they're more agile and athletic than Witten is. I'm not saying he's bad, but he's not ELITE anymore, and definitely not by todays tight end standards. Look at the Gates, Finleys, Kellers, Millers, etc. Cowboys need to move on from Witten not so much because he's not elite, but because they should be trying to hit on that next generation TE, which Bennett seems like he might be if given a chance.
He's a Jack of all trades but he is replaceable. He does everything pretty well but nothing great, exception probably being finding a soft spot in a zone, he's great at that. And why do you think he never gets redzone looks? He's not athletic enough to be a jump-ball TE, and he releases so slow off the line. Absolutely horrible acceleration, even for a TE. If he runs a curl 1 yard short of the first down, 9/10 times he won't be able to turn around and take a step fast enough before he gets tackled. He's only good if Romo hits him in stride down the seam, which doesn't seem like it's happening as much as it used to.
I'm a huge Cowboys fan, but man I've seen enough from Witten. He's good for a false start penalty or at least some kind of penalty almost every single game. And I know you Cowboys fans have seen that dreaded sidestep stiff arm thing he always tries. He (almost) ALWAYS gets tripped up. And I dunno maybe it's just me but I see him giving up on balls that are slightly out of reach. Maybe it's his reaction time but it's happening more often where I see a ball thrown somewhat out of reach and he won't even make a play for it. Modern day TEs can make those catches, they're more agile and athletic than Witten is. I'm not saying he's bad, but he's not ELITE anymore, and definitely not by todays tight end standards. Look at the Gates, Finleys, Kellers, Millers, etc. Cowboys need to move on from Witten not so much because he's not elite, but because they should be trying to hit on that next generation TE, which Bennett seems like he might be if given a chance.
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PahtyTom
Footballguy
Totally disagree on a pure NFL level. Witten is an elite TE (top 2-3) when you factor in his receiving AND blocking. Fantasy wise, in ppr and yardage heavy leagues he's actually probably underrated right now because a lot of people are down on him.
sspunisher
Footballguy
See that's my problem with the Witten argument. Everyone says the same thing, "Overall, if you include blocking." His blocking shouldn't be an excuse to use him as a featured RECEIVING tight end. If he's a good blocker, then let him block! Obviously football is a chess match, so he'd run routes too you can't only put him in to block, but it's not an excuse to just be content with him because he can block. Besides, you can teach blocking, it's all technique and footwork, you can't teach size, speed, agility and run after the catch. Just look at Vernon Davis.
