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Work situation (co-worker trashing me) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TLEF316
- Start date
TLEF316
Footballguy
Well, part of the solution is clearly to play the game a bit through a combo of showing up earlier, staying a little later at times and cutting down on the lunch. I understand that that's a requirement at this point.
I guess this post was more about what else I should do about it. Should I go directly to the boss' boss (assuming my boss doesn't give me the feedback I'm looking for after he talks to her) how I should deal with the co-worker, etc.
At the end of the day, the longer hours is really just an inconvenience. Someone trash talking me on the floor and to my boss' boss is really my concern here. Whether its warranted or not, it makes me look bad on some level.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yes, I understand this philosophy.
That being said, not all salaried jobs are the same. At my previous gig, I could show tangible results by working extra hours (more time drumming up leads, visiting clients, running down prospects, etc). Those opportunities dont exist in this role. Its essentially a service/consulting role. Working extra hard today just means less work tomorrow (especially if my claims of "I can handle a lot more work" are constantly ignored)
I fully recognize that from a workload to salary ratio standpoint, I have a VERY sweet gig here. My main hurdle on a day to day basis is that the people we deal with have no idea how business is done in the United States (and they want to circumvent those rules and customs to make things easier for themselves). So a big portion of my day is spent explaining things to them like they're 5 years old and walking them through the process so that they dont A) break the law or B) drive away a client through pure negligence.
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You should do nothing else. By playing the game you solve your problem. And I still say you should take your day just like everyone in your group.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Sorry - those who do what you do are labeled as those who do just enough. The bare minimum to get buy. Not saying I agree with it but salaried people who leave right at 5 get noticed - at every company.
TLEF316
Footballguy
I feel like if i did this now, it would seem like I was just reacting to the minor hand-slap in a petty, immature way.
mr. furley
Footballguy
of all the office annoyances.. the fingernail clipper, the loud chewer, the guy that brushes his teeth in the bathroom but doesn't wash his hands after touching his ####... the person that everyone likes the least is the one that comes in late and leaves early. or who is at least perceived as putting in fewer hours while not getting reprimanded for it.
we've got one of these guys. he strolls in around 9. takes a nice 90+ minute lunch. checks out between 3:30 - 4:30 every day.
everyone talks #### about him. except management. he doesn't do an excellent job or anything. in fact he's just sort of... there.. harmless but for working 30 hours a week while everyone else is cranking out the normal 40+.
it's just a fact of office life
you could be a totally normal and great guy (and i can't recall anything to the contrary
) but this sense office workers have of someone else flouting the perceived rules is always going to cause waves.
we've got one of these guys. he strolls in around 9. takes a nice 90+ minute lunch. checks out between 3:30 - 4:30 every day.
everyone talks #### about him. except management. he doesn't do an excellent job or anything. in fact he's just sort of... there.. harmless but for working 30 hours a week while everyone else is cranking out the normal 40+.
it's just a fact of office life
you could be a totally normal and great guy (and i can't recall anything to the contrary
) but this sense office workers have of someone else flouting the perceived rules is always going to cause waves.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah, this is really silly. (not saying you're wrong. Its just nuts)
I dont believe for a second that my contributions aren't being recognized. I know that they are. It was made very clear during my review back in March. I get that I need to play the game now from an hours perspective and I'll deal with that. I just HATE the fact it almost certainly resulted from a teammate throwing me under the bus for no reason other than her own frustration.
TLEF316
Footballguy
The official stance from the email I got was that if I'm talking an hour for lunch, I need to kick in an extra half hour. (so like 9-5:30) In the conversation otherwise, my boss was very cavalier about the idea. He essentially said that if I take a longer lunch on one day, I should try to make up "the time" at some point that week. And later that date (friday) he came around at 5:15 and basically told me to get out of there.
The funny thing I'm probably already going like 8:45 to like 5:10 or so at least 50% of the time. But yes, I usually do take an hour for lunch. Our office cafeteria blows (seriously, its barely edible) so I like to run out and grab a sandwich and stop home for like 30 minutes to eat it (I live 5 minutes away) Most of the others either bring lunch or run out and bring something back to their desk.
belljr
Footballguy
belljr
Footballguy
Lunch for me was never "paid" even when salaried. So an 8 hour day is really 8.5 with 30 minute lunch. You are describing a 7 hour day in my optics
comfortably numb
Footballguy
A few more tips...
-Take all your dumps at work.
-pay your bills during work
-make your appointments via phone at work. Need to change your home insurance, do it at work.
-call your parents to say hello from work
-schedule your vacations at work
-complete candy crush at work
-plan your weekends at work
-do any research at work
-learn a new language at work
-Take all your dumps at work.
-pay your bills during work
-make your appointments via phone at work. Need to change your home insurance, do it at work.
-call your parents to say hello from work
-schedule your vacations at work
-complete candy crush at work
-plan your weekends at work
-do any research at work
-learn a new language at work
IC FBGCav
Footballguy
comfortably numb
Footballguy
You still play basketball?
Go into the bathroom stall and do some standing calf raises. It'll look like you're wacking off but still...
Go into the bathroom stall and do some standing calf raises. It'll look like you're wacking off but still...
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Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
I don't really care what hours my people put in, as long as they get #### done AND don't do anything dumb that causes a problem for me.
Your boss' boss talking to him about your hours would be an example of the latter. It's not something I'd get worked up about for someone who is a good performer, but I'd have the necessary conversations like he's having. At some point, though, it becomes your boss' problem. Don't let that happen. Nip it in the bud with whatever hours are necessary.
Personally, hearing about the hours of someone on my team from someone who isn't me just tells me THAT person doesn't have enough worthwhile to do to occupy their time and that they're emotionally immature. It happens on occasion though. Some people can't let go of the 10 year old's perception of fairness, and that matters to them more than anything.
If you have to have a conversion with your co-worker, so be it. But don't go to boss' boss with he said, she said bull####. It's a no-win situation. The last thought she's going to be left with is, "How the hell is it that two professionals can't figure out this petty crap without needing to include me?"
Your boss' boss talking to him about your hours would be an example of the latter. It's not something I'd get worked up about for someone who is a good performer, but I'd have the necessary conversations like he's having. At some point, though, it becomes your boss' problem. Don't let that happen. Nip it in the bud with whatever hours are necessary.
Personally, hearing about the hours of someone on my team from someone who isn't me just tells me THAT person doesn't have enough worthwhile to do to occupy their time and that they're emotionally immature. It happens on occasion though. Some people can't let go of the 10 year old's perception of fairness, and that matters to them more than anything.
If you have to have a conversion with your co-worker, so be it. But don't go to boss' boss with he said, she said bull####. It's a no-win situation. The last thought she's going to be left with is, "How the hell is it that two professionals can't figure out this petty crap without needing to include me?"
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Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Want to beat her at her own game with minimal real impact? Do you have a laptop that will show you online when you're logged on or work access from your phone?
Log in when you get home and leave it up half the night. Maybe once a quarter it bites you in the ### and you have to do work outside hours, but you're also now available long outside the range of time she is.
Log in when you get home and leave it up half the night. Maybe once a quarter it bites you in the ### and you have to do work outside hours, but you're also now available long outside the range of time she is.
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Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
I also probably couldn't help but be a little bit of a passive aggressive ##### with her myself.
Stop by her desk every. single. day. and say, "Hey Sheila, I couldn't help but overhear that you're here until 6:30 every night. I manage to get my work done pretty efficiently, so I've got a few minutes. What can I do to help you get out of here at a more reasonable hour?"
Stop by her desk every. single. day. and say, "Hey Sheila, I couldn't help but overhear that you're here until 6:30 every night. I manage to get my work done pretty efficiently, so I've got a few minutes. What can I do to help you get out of here at a more reasonable hour?"
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Cause #### her, that's why.
TLEF316
Footballguy
This makes plenty of sense. And I made that clear during the conversation that we had (that I hated to cause a problem for him and would make the necessary adjustments) But i still dont think its right to just sit back and let someone use me as their punching bag any time that the territory that they requested (They could EASILY split her territory into 3 and re-organize everything else to lighten her workload and increase mine. She didn't want that) gets too much for them. The fact that she's making those comments on the floor (confirmed by multiple people that I trust) when I'm not around AND probably going behind closed doors and throwing me under the bus (when its A) none of her business and B) doesn't affect her personal workload AT ALL) is what really drove me nuts. Working (or rather, being at work) a little extra is a minor inconvenience. Having a member of my team publicly trashing me (to co-workers and our dept. head) isn't something I can just get over. That's potentially messing with my career.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Heh, if I was gonna put that much attention into it, I would just send emails from Outlook on my phone before driving to work.
I don't think I agree with that. My boss is a very "get your job done and I am happy" kinda guy. He wants you there on time and to be there from your start time to your end time, but if you leave on time every day and get your job done well, he is a-okay with it.
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TLEF316
Footballguy
The funny thing is I've done this a couple of times (non passive aggressively. Genuinely asking to help, before I knew she was a #####) when I KNOW she's overwhelmed. Helped her clear her desk during some high pressure times.
The largest, most labor intensive account on my book is only my responsibility because I volunteered to handle it for a year (I put it on the books as a newline when the rightful owner was on vacation and offered to handle it for the whole year just to make sure the process went smoothly through renewal).
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comfortably numb
Footballguy
Stop spending time on Valerie.
There will be a Valerie or 3 at every job. The fact that 2 bosses are entertaining Valerie means 1 or both find some form of validity to her comments/accusations.
You engaing Valerie directly or bringing this up further is asking for a fight that looks like you have no shot at winning.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
The best thing you can do is make your boss' life easier. And make his boss' life easier if the opportunity arises. Find something your boss has been asked to do that's in your wheelhouse and offer to use your expertise to either do it, learn it from him so he wont have to do it forever, or help pitch in if needed/desired.
Then make sure your work speaks for itself, and if you have a chance to have a natural (not forced, just to talk about yourself) conversation with boss' boss about the large accout you work on, all the effort you put into that project she put you on, That thing you're now doing for your boss, that thing you heard she's been asked to do (and your experience from your previous job gave you all kinds of insights into that and can you make HER life a little easier by helping take it off her plate or pitching in), etc. You get the idea. Be around AND be visibly better than time clock #####.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
####in Valerie.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
I'm just getting warmed up. We haven't even gotten to the inappropriate things she ordered to be delivered to herself at work yet.belljr said:
the lone star
Footballguy
Complaining to HR might be extreme, but hey, look at it this way, would you rather her go to HR first?
With that said, I'd just be sure to take the liberty of working from home, and make sure you put in the full 40 hours. I know you're not hourly, but 40 hours is standard.
Just don't stoop to her level and badmouth her behind her back to your other colleagues. Take the high road.
With that said, I'd just be sure to take the liberty of working from home, and make sure you put in the full 40 hours. I know you're not hourly, but 40 hours is standard.
Just don't stoop to her level and badmouth her behind her back to your other colleagues. Take the high road.
Jayded
Footballguy
Always remember even if she’s wrong, if you stoop to her level it’ll follow you too. They know she’s a complainer already but they’ve complimented your work.
Turn it positive: for the next five months impress your next boss. If you still want out, you’ll only have added more ammo. Ignore her and keep your eye on the prize.
Turn it positive: for the next five months impress your next boss. If you still want out, you’ll only have added more ammo. Ignore her and keep your eye on the prize.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Exactly. I've worked with people like this moron Valerie everywhere I've been. And at every company, there is always some dip#### manager who falls for that nonsense. Let it go. You can't win at her game. Frustration is all that you will find unless you let go.comfortably numb said:
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
Take the high road. Please.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Number one, I hope you're looking for a new gig. Good pay can only offset an unfullfillng job for so long. If possible, work should be something that's challenging and makes you feel successful or it will become a huge mental drain on you.
Secondly, you're typically putting in 8 hours with a 7 hour lunch? Of course people who work regular hours are going to talk about you. Nobody likes a "slacker", particularly one who gets paid more than they do.
The solution is simple, come in a 1/2 hour earlier, stay a 1/2 later, cut down on the lunch break, but whatever you do, find a new job.
Secondly, you're typically putting in 8 hours with a 7 hour lunch? Of course people who work regular hours are going to talk about you. Nobody likes a "slacker", particularly one who gets paid more than they do.
The solution is simple, come in a 1/2 hour earlier, stay a 1/2 later, cut down on the lunch break, but whatever you do, find a new job.
James Daulton
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Maik Jeaunz said:
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Completely agree on the late versus early thing. I’ve always hated it too. One thing I’ve learned is that despite the OP most people don’t really give a #### about your hours if you are doing your job. Do you have any idea what time your co-workers come in and leave? I have no clue and I don’t care.Scoresman said:
Back to the early vs. late. I’ve learned to play that game too - although I shouldn’t call it a game. We all use laptops and being in IT we use IM all the time. I’ll have my IM on sometimes for hours at night and if someone messages me I almost always answer even if it’s 10:00 at night. I have to do some work at night and on weekends on occasion and as someone else mentioned I’ll take the opportunity to knock some emails out.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I’m kind of jealous of two things here (commute and work load) - I live 37 miles from my office and take the bus - it can’t take 1.5 on a bad day one way but at least I can be on WiFi and work. As for workload, my work is never done. I could work 12 hours days all the time and not be caught up. It sucks but it’s also taught me to stop something and pick it back up.TLEF316 said:
Beef Ravioli
Footballguy
Why not confront her kindly and sincerely? “Hey Val, I heard you were concerned about the amount of hours I am putting in, let’s talk about it over lunch.” At that time you could explain that you are getting all of your work plus others done each day. You are also willing to help her with her work. Ask her to come to you next time if she has a problem. Win her over with kindness.
She will probably deny it all but she now knows that you know that she’s been complaining. She sees that you are a really nice person and everyone lives happily ever after!
She will probably deny it all but she now knows that you know that she’s been complaining. She sees that you are a really nice person and everyone lives happily ever after!
AAABatteries
Footballguy
If that doesn’t work, let her know that you plan to move in to management and you will ruin her career - “don’t #### with me Valerie”.
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comfortably numb
Footballguy
Those are my hours and i typically stay til 4-430 sometimes 5 or 6. Not to look good but i just always have something needing to be done. I too do hate though that alot of people in management with me show up at 9 and leave at 6-7 see me leaving at 430 and may have some banker hours jokes. So the next morning i call their cell at 6:58 asking if they need a roll of pennies today as i will have to request it from the main branch.
There is an unwritten rule that salaried employees are expexted to put in more than 40 hours. I dont follow it. My peeps that are salaried, i evalute them on their production.
The only thing i ask when it comes to time is if your constantly doing only 40 hours and then pull the salary card when you need to go to a dr appointment...that's not really fair.
I thought about this one a bit last night. I think you have to understand it's perception vs reality.
Everyone has a different perception on these realities. I will not get into the co-worker throwing you under the bus, because of course that's just plain wrong. But they are just trying to also make themselves look better.
People want to make more money or garner attention to gain promotions. That is the goal at work is it not?
You are putting in minimal effort, get your job complete, do nothing else and getting that 9 holes of golf per night is important to you. That is your reality. You are not challenged at work, content in what you make, get your job done and leave. It's on your boss, or your bosses boss to either throw more on your plate or find something where your talents may be better utilized. If they don't, it certainly doesn't sound like you are making any effort to do so, so you will stay where you're at.
Your co-worker may be overburdened not only at work, but after work. Maybe they have children, maybe they have after work activities they would like to attend to, but they cannot because they are working an extra hour or two every night to stay on top of things. Their perception of you is that you're a lazy SOB that doesn't care about your job, just do what you need to and leave. Their reality is that they have more than they can handle, may be effecting their home life, relationship(s) and they are having a hard time of it right now. They need to vent to someone. It's on their boss or their bosses boss to find a balance for this person so they can meet their work goals.
I've never been a 9-5'er. Sorry, but I do find that to be someone that is lazy and disinterested in their career. I get in about 30 minutes early every day to get a head start on the day. My hours are 7-4, but I haven't left before 4:30 in years. And I take an hour lunch about once per month, other than that i'm at my desk working (and eating if I can). My staff works staggered hours some 7-4, 7:30 - 4:30, 8 - 5:00, etc...And I don't require them to work extra any day that they get their tasks performed correctly and in a timely manner. I don't mind them coming in 15 minutes late, taking an extra 20 minutes at lunch, etc...But I do expect them to stay until their job is done. That said, they are staff, and frankly, quite replaceable. That is reality. My perception of the staff that just put in their time and do nothing extra is just that. When time comes for reviews/promotions, my perception will turn into their reality.
I'm not asking you to stand around twiddling your thumbs to put in an extra 30 minutes to appease your passive aggressive co-worker. But perhaps it may be a benefit to both you and your organization to see if there are additional tasks that you could help out on which will make you look better (perception) and allow you to ask for a raise or promotion if available (reality). Either way, saying you need to get those 9 holes of golf in is pretty telling.
Everyone has a different perception on these realities. I will not get into the co-worker throwing you under the bus, because of course that's just plain wrong. But they are just trying to also make themselves look better.
People want to make more money or garner attention to gain promotions. That is the goal at work is it not?
You are putting in minimal effort, get your job complete, do nothing else and getting that 9 holes of golf per night is important to you. That is your reality. You are not challenged at work, content in what you make, get your job done and leave. It's on your boss, or your bosses boss to either throw more on your plate or find something where your talents may be better utilized. If they don't, it certainly doesn't sound like you are making any effort to do so, so you will stay where you're at.
Your co-worker may be overburdened not only at work, but after work. Maybe they have children, maybe they have after work activities they would like to attend to, but they cannot because they are working an extra hour or two every night to stay on top of things. Their perception of you is that you're a lazy SOB that doesn't care about your job, just do what you need to and leave. Their reality is that they have more than they can handle, may be effecting their home life, relationship(s) and they are having a hard time of it right now. They need to vent to someone. It's on their boss or their bosses boss to find a balance for this person so they can meet their work goals.
I've never been a 9-5'er. Sorry, but I do find that to be someone that is lazy and disinterested in their career. I get in about 30 minutes early every day to get a head start on the day. My hours are 7-4, but I haven't left before 4:30 in years. And I take an hour lunch about once per month, other than that i'm at my desk working (and eating if I can). My staff works staggered hours some 7-4, 7:30 - 4:30, 8 - 5:00, etc...And I don't require them to work extra any day that they get their tasks performed correctly and in a timely manner. I don't mind them coming in 15 minutes late, taking an extra 20 minutes at lunch, etc...But I do expect them to stay until their job is done. That said, they are staff, and frankly, quite replaceable. That is reality. My perception of the staff that just put in their time and do nothing extra is just that. When time comes for reviews/promotions, my perception will turn into their reality.
I'm not asking you to stand around twiddling your thumbs to put in an extra 30 minutes to appease your passive aggressive co-worker. But perhaps it may be a benefit to both you and your organization to see if there are additional tasks that you could help out on which will make you look better (perception) and allow you to ask for a raise or promotion if available (reality). Either way, saying you need to get those 9 holes of golf in is pretty telling.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
Sounds normal and i get what you are saying.
I just hope you are not penalizing employee X for being a superstar putting in his 40 hours and rewarding employee Z for being a back up punter and putting in his 47 hours.
Some people who put in more time do so becuae they are not as good or bad with time management.
Employees will feel this and you can ruin good employees this way imo...hence "the game" being tossed around here.
Ive actually used a variation of this Lt Daniels (the wire) quote with other managers and dealing with employees.
“You show loyalty, they learn loyalty. You show them it’s about the work, it’ll be about the work. You show them it’s about some other kind of game, then that’s the game they’ll play.”
IMO you start showing employees its about 43 hours a week....theyll start to give you your 43 hours....but 37 hours of work as opposed to the 40 you were getting.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Get what you're saying here. Certainly don't expect everyone to read every post here but I am already doing most of what you are saying.
I am CONSTANTLY telling my boss that I have free capacity and am willing to help in any way I can. It's pretty much the way I end every conversation with him. It was the theme of my review back in March.
This department has very high turnover. People burn out because there is little incentive to do more. It's a grind due to the nature of the department.
If I could apply for another job within the company, I would. But I'm technically not allowed to do so yet. Ive had 3 or 4 offers to interview for other positions (from people I worked with in my prior stint here. High enough that I could have gotten an exemption to the 18 month rule) but have turned then down. Combination of not being the right fit and wanting to see out my commitment to this team (I made a mistake taking my prior job and they gave me a foot back in the door at the company that I now know I want to work for)
My boss acknowledged (both in the email and subsequent conversation) that he knows I'm the most efficient person he has. His boss has brought me into her office on several occasions to relay positive comments she's gotten from the outside teams we work with. Her boss has a very high opinion of me as well.
This isn't a laziness issue. I get that it might that seem that way because the core of this thread is someone complaining about working what most would consider normal hours. But that's simply not the case. How many times do you tell your boss that can handle more work (which I do get sometimes) before you just give up?
SWC
Bromigo
one of my first tool and die jobs was making parts for machines that were so big and sort of one of a kind so it was not like parts were sitting on a shelf somewhere you could just order up if something broke you just made the new part and slapped it in there anyhow because the gig was making parts you could just do it whenever and usually the sooner the better so if you showed up at 330 in the morning you could work your nine and be done by one it was a great gig timewise but i moved on for better pay anyhow all i am saying is best of luck take that to the bank bromigo
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