Worst 1st round (1 Viewer)

[gianmarco]

Tebow was a joke of a pick...it's moves like that which motivate me to send my resume into some NFL front offices.

This post can't be good for Tebow haters.Automatic HOF lock now.

 

[gandalas]

Really, in the modern day, unless you're picking a Manning, taking a QB #1 seems to give you considerably worse odds than a crap shoot.

Indianapolis didn't really even know they were "picking a Manning" when they picked Manning.

Never heard of Archie Manning? At the very least, with GREAT QB bloodlines and his stellar college career, they had an idea. There was a reason they went for him over leaf, after all...

 

[Chase Stuart]

Really, in the modern day, unless you're picking a Manning, taking a QB #1 seems to give you considerably worse odds than a crap shoot.

Indianapolis didn't really even know they were "picking a Manning" when they picked Manning.

Never heard of Archie Manning? At the very least, with GREAT QB bloodlines and his stellar college career, they had an idea. There was a reason they went for him over leaf, after all...

How about Brian Griese?

 

[phthalatemagic]

Jags apparently looking to move John Henderson

Smith indicated the Jaguars would entertain trade offers for Henderson, seemingly ready to part ways with him in exchange for an extra draft pick this weekend.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d...mp;confirm=trueHenderson probably had his worst season last year, but I'm still pretty shocked that the Jaguars decided to draft his replacement when they have so many other needs.

Seems like just yesterday that Henderson/Stroud were the combo that would dominate for years. Sad they pissed away that opp.

 

[Wadsworth]

Jags apparently looking to move John Henderson

Smith indicated the Jaguars would entertain trade offers for Henderson, seemingly ready to part ways with him in exchange for an extra draft pick this weekend.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d...mp;confirm=trueHenderson probably had his worst season last year, but I'm still pretty shocked that the Jaguars decided to draft his replacement when they have so many other needs.

Seems like just yesterday that Henderson/Stroud were the combo that would dominate for years. Sad they pissed away that opp.

If last season was indeed his worst season John Henderson is doing pretty well. 3 sacks, 3 PDef and 2 FF isn't bad at all for a DT. His tackle totals are down, but watching him play he was winning most of the battles in the trenches and looks to have plenty left in the tank.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Tebow was projected in most mocks to go ahead of Alualu, and they picked him at #25 while Aluala was picked all the way up at #10.

Regardless of what you personally feel about Tebow, you have to have the notion that you could be wrong and that as a consensus, Tebow's rating as a prospect was roughly equal to Alualu's (if not quite a bit higher) and he still went 15 picks later.

Picking a guy who was projected to go in the early 2nd round at #10 overall is one thing. You figure, maybe they just couldn't find a partner to trade down with, right? But then when the next three picks behind you ALL trade down (so obviously there were plenty of trading partners), it's really baffling.

So not only did Jacksonville draft a guy with a 2nd round grade at #10 overall, but at the same time they basically gave away an early 2nd round pick that they probably could've have easily gotten (Miami got #40 overall to move down) in trade to move down and draft Alualu a little later. A second round pick, just gone into thin air.

 

[EBF]

Regarding Jacksonville, here's a pertinent quote from 49ers GM Trent Baalke:

http://www.49ers.com/news-and-events/artic...2c-093872cc6dca

On whether he tried to go higher than No. 11:

“We had gone into the draft thinking that we would go as high as 10. We started making calls at 10 when the player was available. Jacksonville was at 10. They didn’t want to make the trade. They had a guy targeted, which I felt good about because they drafted two offensive tackles a year ago. So, once they said they had a player they had targeted, I was pretty comfortable we could move up to 11 and still get the player. Once again, I was looking more at it from who was behind us trying to come up more than the teams in front of us.”

 

[Wadsworth]

Tebow was projected in most mocks to go ahead of Alualu, and they picked him at #25 while Aluala was picked all the way up at #10.Regardless of what you personally feel about Tebow, you have to have the notion that you could be wrong and that as a consensus, Tebow's rating as a prospect was roughly equal to Alualu's (if not quite a bit higher) and he still went 15 picks later.Picking a guy who was projected to go in the early 2nd round at #10 overall is one thing. You figure, maybe they just couldn't find a partner to trade down with, right? But then when the next three picks behind you ALL trade down (so obviously there were plenty of trading partners), it's really baffling.So not only did Jacksonville draft a guy with a 2nd round grade at #10 overall, but at the same time they basically gave away an early 2nd round pick that they probably could've have easily gotten (Miami got #40 overall to move down) in trade to move down and draft Alualu a little later. A second round pick, just gone into thin air.

That would make a lot of sense if most of the people that had Alualu going in the second round didn't also have Clausen going in the top 10. If the Jags took Clausen at #10 the "experts" would very likely have liked the pick. Yet the real experts passed on Clausen for at least 22 more picks. If the Jags took Dan Williams with the #10 many of the "experts" would have liked the pick, yet the real experts passed on Williams for another 16 picks. Your opinion presumes that the mock draft intelligencia is accurate in their rankings. Which I don't find to be a solid basis for argument.

 

[SSOG]

They also gave up Brandon Marshall to move up to get Tebow; they got back a 2011 second. So it's more like using your first pick on D. Thomas, your second pick on a swing the fences pick at a position where you have no need, and giving up your star WR and getting back a 3rd rounder and a 2011 second. Doesn't sound very good to me for a team that allowed 25.5 PPG in their last 11 games and 30.5 PPG in their last 4 games. Yes, I'm using multiple end points to objectify the fact that the Broncos defense stinks, and all they've done to improve their D is trade their one playmaker on offense.At 24, they could have drafted Dan Williams. At 25, they could have taken Kyle Wilson or Devin McCourtey, or gone with Jerry Hughes or Sergio Kindle. Or taken the 3-4 DE in Jared Odrick that they desperately, desperately need. I doubt most fans even in the Shark Pool could name a single one of Denver's starters on the DL last season. Can you imagine if they came out of round 1 with Dan Williams and Jared Odrick and owned picks #43 and #45 in the second round, a super high third round pick (#70), two more thirds, two fourths, a fifth and a sixth? They could have easily packaged some of those later round picks to grab three or four more impact players. Hell they could have traded up to take Hughes or Kyle Wilson in addition to Odrick. Now THAT would have been a defensive overhaul and a great way to build your team.Instead, the offense genius trades three of his best four offensive players within 15 months of being hired, and then uses all of his new picks on offensive players last night? I didn't realize the McDaniels system needs to invest so many high picks on offense to work. (Oh, and I don't know how D. Thomas is going to go from running 3 routes to running 50 in McDaniels' complicated offense; if Thomas ever pans out, it will probably be for a new coach in year 3 or 4 of his career.)

You don't need to convince me that McDaniels is an idiot. You don't need to remind me that just over a year ago Denver's offense was a top 5 unit despite starting players 26 or younger at every core position (both tackles, both WRs, TE, QB, RB... and just for good measure, FB and one of the guards, too)... and in the past year, McDaniels has scrapped the system, scrapped half the talent, and invested the overwhelming majority of his resources on "fixing" something that was never broken until he tried fixing it in the first place.With that said, I really had no problem with Denver's 1st round this year. I'm okay with both picks. I don't love either, but I'm okay with them, and am willing to see how they pan out before passing judgment.The rest of Denver's draft? Train wreck. 5 picks in the first 3 rounds, and every single one of them gets spent on an offensive player? Again, just over a year ago, Denver had a top 5 offense with every single core player yet to enter his prime. If Bowlen had just kept Shanahan (and the Goodman's, the father-son scouting team responsible for Denver's awesome drafts in '06 and '08), and if Denver had just devoted 90% of its resources to its defense (instead of devoting 90% to its offense under McDaniels), then I think Denver would be a perennial double-digit win team.In 2002, Jim Irsay was in an interesting position. He had a studly offense that could pretty much coast on autopilot, but his team was terrible because his defense was so brutally horrible. So what did Irsay do? He hired a defense-minded coach who left the offense alone and devoted almost all of his resources to fielding an average defense on the cheap. The result? 8 straight double-digit win seasons (including 7 straight 12+ win seasons) a SB championship, and a second SB appearance. So what does Pat Bowlen do when put in the exact same situation? The exact opposite, of course.

 

[ChargersOH]

That would make a lot of sense if most of the people that had Alualu going in the second round didn't also have Clausen going in the top 10. If the Jags took Clausen at #10 the "experts" would very likely have liked the pick. Yet the real experts passed on Clausen for at least 22 more picks. If the Jags took Dan Williams with the #10 many of the "experts" would have liked the pick, yet the real experts passed on Williams for another 16 picks. Your opinion presumes that the mock draft intelligencia is accurate in their rankings. Which I don't find to be a solid basis for argument.

Experts and their idea of value doesn't equate to GMs and theirs.Everyone has an opinion. The only people who matter keep those tight to the vest.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Dont want to read the two pages of reply's, but Demaryius over Dez wasn't a bad pick. Dez might have more natural abilitey... MIGHT. But he also comes with Marshall bagage, so Demaryius is actually a smart alternative.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I've been reading a lot about how awful denver's draft was, and how mcdaniels is an idiot, but I think out of 32 teams in the nfl that tebow has the best chance for success with mcdaniels.

I had never even thought about him going there, but I'll bet mcdaniels sees something of himself in tebow, and in that system tebow could actually do damage.

I'm not some tebow fan, or college talent evaluator, but as a devil's advocate I'll be interested in seeing how this draft pans out.

give the guy a chance, for christ's sake --- do you guys think there's more success to be had by turning the coaching staff over every year?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

That would make a lot of sense if most of the people that had Alualu going in the second round didn't also have Clausen going in the top 10. If the Jags took Clausen at #10 the "experts" would very likely have liked the pick. Yet the real experts passed on Clausen for at least 22 more picks. If the Jags took Dan Williams with the #10 many of the "experts" would have liked the pick, yet the real experts passed on Williams for another 16 picks. Your opinion presumes that the mock draft intelligencia is accurate in their rankings. Which I don't find to be a solid basis for argument.

Experts and their idea of value doesn't equate to GMs and theirs.Everyone has an opinion. The only people who matter keep those tight to the vest.

We have to have some baseline here, otherwise we can't even have this discussion because we can say the same thing about every single case.This wasn't just a consensus thing. Not one single person had Alualu going anywhere near that high. Not one, and many of these "experts" are ex coaches themselves. I find it extremely unlikely that Alualu was about to go anywhere in the next few picks.But none of this really matters to the point of my original post, since many of the people who hate Tebow in the 1st round were fine with Tebow in the 2nd round. And every single one of those posters had Alualu rated as a second rounder (at best) as well.

 

[Wadsworth]

That would make a lot of sense if most of the people that had Alualu going in the second round didn't also have Clausen going in the top 10. If the Jags took Clausen at #10 the "experts" would very likely have liked the pick. Yet the real experts passed on Clausen for at least 22 more picks. If the Jags took Dan Williams with the #10 many of the "experts" would have liked the pick, yet the real experts passed on Williams for another 16 picks. Your opinion presumes that the mock draft intelligencia is accurate in their rankings. Which I don't find to be a solid basis for argument.

Experts and their idea of value doesn't equate to GMs and theirs.

Everyone has an opinion. The only people who matter keep those tight to the vest.

We have to have some baseline here, otherwise we can't even have this discussion because we can say the same thing about every single case.This wasn't just a consensus thing. Not one single person had Alualu going anywhere near that high. Not one, and many of these "experts" are ex coaches themselves. I find it extremely unlikely that Alualu was about to go anywhere in the next few picks.

But none of this really matters to the point of my original post, since many of the people who hate Tebow in the 1st round were fine with Tebow in the 2nd round. And every single one of those posters had Alualu rated as a second rounder (at best) as well.

I have a hard time believing that statement. I saw several mocks that had Alualu in the first and Rick Gosselen for one example had him 31st on his big board.I'll just throw this out there. Both are projected as 1-gap tackles in the NFL and both played in major conferences.

Gerald McCoy

2008 Season 30 TT / 11.0 TFL / 6.5 Sacks

2009 Season 34 TT / 15.5 TFL / 6.0 Sacks

Tyson Alualu

2008 Season 62 TT / 11.0 TFL / 6.0 Sacks

2009 Season 65 TT / 11.0 TFL / 7.5 Sacks

I'm not saying Alualu is better, but this idea that he was a second rounder at best seems a bit far fetched.

 

[Adebisi]

Serious question:

Do you guys think you know more about football than Josh McDaniels?

I'm looking for a "yes" or "no" answer here.

 

[SSOG]

Serious questiono you guys think you know more about football than Josh McDaniels?I'm looking for a "yes" or "no" answer here.

No, but I think I know more about how much I know about football than Josh McDaniels does.

 

[bryan215]

Random Q: But if the Broncos somehow make the playoffs and win a game either this year or next with Orton, Tebow, or Brady Quinn as their starting QB...pretty much everyone has to agree that McDaniels is a QB whiz and offensive genius right? Or will everyone just say it's cuz of the defense or running game lol?

 

[SSOG]

Random Q: But if the Broncos somehow make the playoffs and win a game either this year or next with Orton, Tebow, or Brady Quinn as their starting QB...pretty much everyone has to agree that McDaniels is a QB whiz and offensive genius right? Or will everyone just say it's cuz of the defense or running game lol?

Well, that depends. If Denver's offense is 20th and their defense is 5th, and they make the playoffs and win a game, then I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that they made it because of their defense and running game. If Brady Quinn becomes the starter and posts a QB rating of 60, then I don't think we have to call McDaniels a "QB whiz" regardless of the team's fortunes.Basically, if McDaniels is really an offensive genius, then his offense will be good. If he's really a QB guru, then his QBs will develop from where they are now. Any team success is nice, but it's hardly a validation of either of those two claims on its own.

 

[cr8f]

When a team could have landed Dez Bryant and Dan Williams and instead ended up with Tim Tebow and Demaryius Thomas, I don't think it can get much worse.

Not only that the Tebow pick turned out to be Kindle. (could have been) SS Morgan Burnett, an TE Pita it was expensive. They traded 2 picks to move up 20 spots.

 

[cr8f]

Random Q: But if the Broncos somehow make the playoffs and win a game either this year or next with Orton, Tebow, or Brady Quinn as their starting QB...pretty much everyone has to agree that McDaniels is a QB whiz and offensive genius right? Or will everyone just say it's cuz of the defense or running game lol?

He may be but it doesn't justify a 3rd and a 4th to move up 20 spots. It just proves he is a better teacher than a drafter.

 

[jurb26]

When a team could have landed Dez Bryant and Dan Williams and instead ended up with Tim Tebow and Demaryius Thomas, I don't think it can get much worse.

IMO, this will rival ALL TIME worst 1st rounds... Just mind boggling.IMO, it drives me nuts when my team drafts "Project Players" early and grabs Character guys WAY over talent... But, when you waste Draft picks in the process it makes it Off the Charts Horribly WRONG.Just too much talent in this draft to chase Project players and waste picks...

Not too mention that at one point on day one, Den was probably in the best position of all 32 teams with the picks they had stock piled up and the depth of this class. They absolutely blew all of that away with the Tebow pick and trade up.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Serious questiono you guys think you know more about football than Josh McDaniels?I'm looking for a "yes" or "no" answer here.

No.But what does that have to do with anything? There are at least 31 other people in the NFL who know about as much about football as Josh McDaniels, and I'm pretty sure I could find several who think Denver's draft was pretty bad. If we have to appeal to authority every time we argue about a player, a draft, a gameplan or whatever, this board is going to get bad really fast.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Random Q: But if the Broncos somehow make the playoffs and win a game either this year or next with Orton, Tebow, or Brady Quinn as their starting QB...pretty much everyone has to agree that McDaniels is a QB whiz and offensive genius right? Or will everyone just say it's cuz of the defense or running game lol?

If they make the playoffs with Tim Tebow throwing 300 yard, multiple-TD games, then you're right that we'll have to give McDaniels credit.If the make the playoffs thanks to a stout defense and Moreno's running abilities with Orton (or whoever) throwing an occasional pass a la Trent Dilfer, then you're right that everyone will just say its because of the defense and running game.

 

[Deadman31]

I think Jacksonville picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

 

[Topes]

He may be but it doesn't justify a 3rd and a 4th to move up 20 spots. It just proves he is a better teacher than a drafter.

Though I don't think the Tebow pick was a very good pick, I don't think the price to move into the 25 spot was all that bad.

 

[Topes]

Serious questiono you guys think you know more about football than Josh McDaniels?I'm looking for a "yes" or "no" answer here.

No.But what does that have to do with anything? There are at least 31 other people in the NFL who know about as much about football as Josh McDaniels, and I'm pretty sure I could find several who think Denver's draft was pretty bad. If we have to appeal to authority every time we argue about a player, a draft, a gameplan or whatever, this board is going to get bad really fast.