Worst US President of the last 50 years (1 Viewer)

[Buckychudd]

lol at laying the AIDS crisis on Reagan.

"...and to the homosexuals out there watching/listening, please stop having irresponsible unprotected sex.

Good night and God Bless America."

Reagan blinked on AIDS. He said nothing for years in the face of a growing epidemic. He said nothign after his friend Rock Hudson was diagnosed. It wasn't until there had been over 20k deaths that Reagan, near the end of his second term in '87, would finally say something. Dr. C. Everett Koop, the Surgeon General, said he was cut out of all AIDS discussions because the presidents advisers felt that Reagan couldn't risk pissing off Falwell and his ilk. Who knows how many night have lived and where we would be now had the very popular president used the bully pulpit to address this problem sooner than he did.

Incorrect - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_Admini...esponse_to_AIDSWhile not having good policies about Aids he is not the devil some people like to make him out to be. His spending on Aids did go up throughout his adminstration.

Since it started at zero it should go up. In 1981 it was 200,000. The point isn't spending. The point is the President could have come out and led on this. He could not have prevented his Surgeon General from reporting on it until 1986. He could have rebuked Buchanan for arguing that "AIDS is natures revenge on homosexuals". He didn't. He didn't lead on something that was killing Americans and he didn't because of political considerations taking precendence over Americans lives.

Under Reagan $5.7 billion was spent on AIDS and HIV, with large amounts going to the National Institutes of Health. This was significantly more than the federal government spends on cancer research, which kills far more people than AIDS and HIV, though some argued that it was still not enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_ReaganWow, more than cancer research....that doesn't seem right.

 

[bueno]

I would have said Nixon prior to this Presidency but there is no way that at this point in time it's anyone but GWB. And I expect the picture to get bleaker not prettier as the years wear on.

Oh and before anyone tries the "you don't remeber the 70's" shtick I remember them just fine. I watched everyday of the Watergate hearings. I remember the helicopter ride of shame away from the White House. I remember the pardon. I remember Carter and the mess he inherited. I remember that the fiscal policies started under Carter gave Reagan the basis for his economy. I remember it all just fine.

You are truly delusional if you believe this is even remotely true.

Carter was battling infaltion that had been on the rise for 15 years. It peaked on his watch. How he can be blamed for inflationary pressures that started under Johnson is a bot of a mystery to me. He also bit the bullet and let Volker do what he had to do to end stagflation. Cheered on by Wall Street I might add. While costing Carter his political career. Because of this Volker was able to expand the money supply in late 81, early 82 which launched the economy of the 80's. And for those who want to talk taxes the top tax rate was the same under Carter as it was under Kennedy. And in fact Carter cut the capital gains tax by something like 10% IIRC.Delusional? Not really.

Yes delusional. In Carter's first year in office, inflation was 6.5% annually. Inflation actually came down from the disasterous 11.3% as a result of the 1973-74 Arab oil embargo, to 9.2% in 1975 and 5.75% in 1976. In other words, when Carter became President in 1977, inflation was already well under control.Then in 1978, it jumped to 7.62%, then 11.22% in 1979, 13.58% in 1980 and 10.35% in 1981. Then suddenly in 1982, it dropped to 6.16% Why, you may ask? The Economic Recovery Tax Act (ERTA) of 1981, the Reagan tax cuts. Source

Inflation was already under control when Carter took office. Carter screwed the pooch with regard to the economy. The Reagan tax cuts was what allowed the economy to recover.

The figures don't lie, NCC.

They can be twisted. You seemed to have forgotten the second oil crisis of '79 contributed to that spike. You also fail to note the Feds rates in there anywhere I see. Incomplete numbers are meaningless.

And who do we blame that second oil crisis on, I wonder? I'm not going to big up every economic indicator to prove how bad Carter was. You brought up the Fed and inflation fighting. You got destroyed on that argument. You said it had been on the rise for 15 years when it had actually been falling leading up to Carter's presidency. Your "facts" are wrong. Your boy sucked.

 

[saintfool]

lol at laying the AIDS crisis on Reagan.

"...and to the homosexuals out there watching/listening, please stop having irresponsible unprotected sex.

Good night and God Bless America."

laugh all you want but he waited 6 years to speak about the crisis publicly. how could the POTUS not say a single thing after 27,000+ men and women have died from it? the CDC was refused adequate money by the administration to research it even. reagan's and his staff scuttled Koop's attempts to introduce AIDS education in the schools. 6 years and "the great communicator" could not come up with a single statement about the AIDS crisis? #### you, ronald reagan. i hope you rot in hell.

A lot more people died in automobile accidents than that, seems he would have been better off speaking out on that.

if automobile deaths were something new, maybe. if we didn't have have programs for driver's safety and education, yeah sure. the gov't has been doing something about that. reagan waited while a new disease scourged the gay community for 6 years. he waited 6 years to comment publicly about it. it's almost as if he was denying what was happening. we finally got serious about HIV/AIDS in 1987 as a matter of public policy. it just happened to be the same year he started talking about it, i guess?

 

[saintfool]

Under Reagan $5.7 billion was spent on AIDS and HIV, with large amounts going to the National Institutes of Health. This was significantly more than the federal government spends on cancer research, which kills far more people than AIDS and HIV, though some argued that it was still not enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_ReaganWow, more than cancer research....that doesn't seem right.

*sigh*other diseases, like cancer, are researched independently by the scientific and medical community. like the american cancer society. at the time, there was no independent research. organizations like AMFAR didn't take the stage until 1985.

 

[NCCommish]

lol at laying the AIDS crisis on Reagan.

"...and to the homosexuals out there watching/listening, please stop having irresponsible unprotected sex.

Good night and God Bless America."

Reagan blinked on AIDS. He said nothing for years in the face of a growing epidemic. He said nothign after his friend Rock Hudson was diagnosed. It wasn't until there had been over 20k deaths that Reagan, near the end of his second term in '87, would finally say something. Dr. C. Everett Koop, the Surgeon General, said he was cut out of all AIDS discussions because the presidents advisers felt that Reagan couldn't risk pissing off Falwell and his ilk. Who knows how many night have lived and where we would be now had the very popular president used the bully pulpit to address this problem sooner than he did.

Incorrect - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_Admini...esponse_to_AIDSWhile not having good policies about Aids he is not the devil some people like to make him out to be. His spending on Aids did go up throughout his adminstration.

Since it started at zero it should go up. In 1981 it was 200,000. The point isn't spending. The point is the President could have come out and led on this. He could not have prevented his Surgeon General from reporting on it until 1986. He could have rebuked Buchanan for arguing that "AIDS is natures revenge on homosexuals". He didn't. He didn't lead on something that was killing Americans and he didn't because of political considerations taking precendence over Americans lives.

Under Reagan $5.7 billion was spent on AIDS and HIV, with large amounts going to the National Institutes of Health. This was significantly more than the federal government spends on cancer research, which kills far more people than AIDS and HIV, though some argued that it was still not enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_ReaganWow, more than cancer research....that doesn't seem right.

HHS discretionary spending doesn't come close to that so it would be interesting to know what they were counting as spending. In fact according to the CRS report to Congress on AIDS spending 1999 spending on AIDS research, prevention and treatment didn't reach the 1 billion mark until 1989.

 

[saintsfan]

Anybody in this poll who says Reagan is a tool. Period.

If not the greatest President of the 20th Century, right behind only FDR.

Carter was an unmitigated disaster.

Reagan, not only put pressures on the Soviet Union which caused it to economically collapse, he was the ONLY one who actually thought this could happen.

If it was up to the liberals in this country, the SU would still be around and we'd still be having arms limitations talks and hearing about how we should try to work with them, basically let them HAVE Eastern Europe. After all, what's a few hundred million people in living under a brutal dictatorship.

Reagan and Reagan alone saw the Soviet Union and a corrupt and evil enterprise that could be defeated if America only wanted to. The SDI was the straw that finally broke the camels back. Gorbachev KNEW he couldn't afford to build it and that Reagan could. Only then did Gorbachev start talking about Glasnost, a nice name which should have been called, instead, "Yes Mr. Reagan, I am your #####." It was brilliant strategy. Also, how about the Pershing missles in Western Europe. THAT put lots of pressure on the Soviets. They no longer could count on the Red Army as being a significant deterent for us. If the Red Army as much as put their big toe into Western Europe, Moscow would be destroyed in 15 minutes.

 

[Saints-Man]

I would have said Nixon prior to this Presidency but there is no way that at this point in time it's anyone but GWB. And I expect the picture to get bleaker not prettier as the years wear on.

Oh and before anyone tries the "you don't remeber the 70's" shtick I remember them just fine. I watched everyday of the Watergate hearings. I remember the helicopter ride of shame away from the White House. I remember the pardon. I remember Carter and the mess he inherited. I remember that the fiscal policies started under Carter gave Reagan the basis for his economy. I remember it all just fine.

You are truly delusional if you believe this is even remotely true.

Carter was battling infaltion that had been on the rise for 15 years. It peaked on his watch. How he can be blamed for inflationary pressures that started under Johnson is a bot of a mystery to me. He also bit the bullet and let Volker do what he had to do to end stagflation. Cheered on by Wall Street I might add. While costing Carter his political career. Because of this Volker was able to expand the money supply in late 81, early 82 which launched the economy of the 80's. And for those who want to talk taxes the top tax rate was the same under Carter as it was under Kennedy. And in fact Carter cut the capital gains tax by something like 10% IIRC.Delusional? Not really.

Yes delusional. In Carter's first year in office, inflation was 6.5% annually. Inflation actually came down from the disasterous 11.3% as a result of the 1973-74 Arab oil embargo, to 9.2% in 1975 and 5.75% in 1976. In other words, when Carter became President in 1977, inflation was already well under control.Then in 1978, it jumped to 7.62%, then 11.22% in 1979, 13.58% in 1980 and 10.35% in 1981. Then suddenly in 1982, it dropped to 6.16% Why, you may ask? The Economic Recovery Tax Act (ERTA) of 1981, the Reagan tax cuts. Source

Inflation was already under control when Carter took office. Carter screwed the pooch with regard to the economy. The Reagan tax cuts was what allowed the economy to recover.

The figures don't lie, NCC.

Paul Volcker means nothing to you, I gather?

Paul Volcker was not the president. Many people here credit Clinton with a bomming economy in the 1990's, then those same people have to blame Carter for the economy in the late 1970's.

 

[NCCommish]

I would have said Nixon prior to this Presidency but there is no way that at this point in time it's anyone but GWB. And I expect the picture to get bleaker not prettier as the years wear on.

Oh and before anyone tries the "you don't remeber the 70's" shtick I remember them just fine. I watched everyday of the Watergate hearings. I remember the helicopter ride of shame away from the White House. I remember the pardon. I remember Carter and the mess he inherited. I remember that the fiscal policies started under Carter gave Reagan the basis for his economy. I remember it all just fine.

You are truly delusional if you believe this is even remotely true.

Carter was battling infaltion that had been on the rise for 15 years. It peaked on his watch. How he can be blamed for inflationary pressures that started under Johnson is a bot of a mystery to me. He also bit the bullet and let Volker do what he had to do to end stagflation. Cheered on by Wall Street I might add. While costing Carter his political career. Because of this Volker was able to expand the money supply in late 81, early 82 which launched the economy of the 80's. And for those who want to talk taxes the top tax rate was the same under Carter as it was under Kennedy. And in fact Carter cut the capital gains tax by something like 10% IIRC.Delusional? Not really.

Yes delusional. In Carter's first year in office, inflation was 6.5% annually. Inflation actually came down from the disasterous 11.3% as a result of the 1973-74 Arab oil embargo, to 9.2% in 1975 and 5.75% in 1976. In other words, when Carter became President in 1977, inflation was already well under control.Then in 1978, it jumped to 7.62%, then 11.22% in 1979, 13.58% in 1980 and 10.35% in 1981. Then suddenly in 1982, it dropped to 6.16% Why, you may ask? The Economic Recovery Tax Act (ERTA) of 1981, the Reagan tax cuts. Source

Inflation was already under control when Carter took office. Carter screwed the pooch with regard to the economy. The Reagan tax cuts was what allowed the economy to recover.

The figures don't lie, NCC.

They can be twisted. You seemed to have forgotten the second oil crisis of '79 contributed to that spike. You also fail to note the Feds rates in there anywhere I see. Incomplete numbers are meaningless.

And who do we blame that second oil crisis on, I wonder? I'm not going to big up every economic indicator to prove how bad Carter was. You brought up the Fed and inflation fighting. You got destroyed on that argument. You said it had been on the rise for 15 years when it had actually been falling leading up to Carter's presidency. Your "facts" are wrong. Your boy sucked.

Inflation 1974 11.0% First Oil Crisis Your boys. Guess they were to blame if Carter wasInflation 1975 9.1%

Inflation 1976 5.8%

Inflation 1977 6.5%

Inflation 1978 7.6%

Inflation 1979 11.3% Second Oil Crisis

Inflation 1980 13.5% Your boy

Inflation 1981 10.5%

Took longer to wring it out the second time it seems. Fed rates feel from a high of 14% in 1981 to 8.5% in 1982. The economy took off and the Reagan Miracle was born.

Inflationary pressure started with the deficit spending to support the Vietnam War and were iniated by LBJ in 1965. They peaked on Carters watch but unless we are blaming everyone else before him then it is hard to pin it all on him. Well unless you are trying to make a partisan point regardless of reality.

 

[NCCommish]

Anybody in this poll who says Reagan is a tool. Period.If not the greatest President of the 20th Century, right behind only FDR.Carter was an unmitigated disaster.Reagan, not only put pressures on the Soviet Union which caused it to economically collapse, he was the ONLY one who actually thought this could happen.If it was up to the liberals in this country, the SU would still be around and we'd still be having arms limitations talks and hearing about how we should try to work with them, basically let them HAVE Eastern Europe. After all, what's a few hundred million people in living under a brutal dictatorship.Reagan and Reagan alone saw the Soviet Union and a corrupt and evil enterprise that could be defeated if America only wanted to. The SDI was the straw that finally broke the camels back. Gorbachev KNEW he couldn't afford to build it and that Reagan could. Only then did Gorbachev start talking about Glasnost, a nice name which should have been called, instead, "Yes Mr. Reagan, I am your #####." It was brilliant strategy. Also, how about the Pershing missles in Western Europe. THAT put lots of pressure on the Soviets. They no longer could count on the Red Army as being a significant deterent for us. If the Red Army as much as put their big toe into Western Europe, Moscow would be destroyed in 15 minutes.

The Soviet Union was rotting from with in. Reagan initiated a race to bankruptcy and the Russians won. By not by as much as people like to think. And Reagan's VP paid the political price for it when the credit card finally had to be paid. The USSR was dying and would not be with us today, regardless.

 

[Saints-Man]

....

Inflation 1974 11.0% First Oil Crisis Your boys. Guess they were to blame if Carter was

Inflation 1975 9.1%

Inflation 1976 5.8%

Inflation 1977 6.5%

Inflation 1978 7.6%

Inflation 1979 11.3% Second Oil Crisis

Inflation 1980 13.5% Your boy

Inflation 1981 10.5%

Took longer to wring it out the second time it seems. Fed rates feel from a high of 14% in 1981 to 8.5% in 1982. The economy took off and the Reagan Miracle was born.

Inflationary pressure started with the deficit spending to support the Vietnam War and were iniated by LBJ in 1965. They peaked on Carters watch but unless we are blaming everyone else before him then it is hard to pin it all on him. Well unless you are trying to make a partisan point regardless of reality.

NCC, you usually have higher standards than this. The election was in November of 1980, and he didn't take office until 1981.

 

[Saints-Man]

Anybody in this poll who says Reagan is a tool. Period.If not the greatest President of the 20th Century, right behind only FDR.Carter was an unmitigated disaster.Reagan, not only put pressures on the Soviet Union which caused it to economically collapse, he was the ONLY one who actually thought this could happen.If it was up to the liberals in this country, the SU would still be around and we'd still be having arms limitations talks and hearing about how we should try to work with them, basically let them HAVE Eastern Europe. After all, what's a few hundred million people in living under a brutal dictatorship.Reagan and Reagan alone saw the Soviet Union and a corrupt and evil enterprise that could be defeated if America only wanted to. The SDI was the straw that finally broke the camels back. Gorbachev KNEW he couldn't afford to build it and that Reagan could. Only then did Gorbachev start talking about Glasnost, a nice name which should have been called, instead, "Yes Mr. Reagan, I am your #####." It was brilliant strategy. Also, how about the Pershing missles in Western Europe. THAT put lots of pressure on the Soviets. They no longer could count on the Red Army as being a significant deterent for us. If the Red Army as much as put their big toe into Western Europe, Moscow would be destroyed in 15 minutes.

The Soviet Union was rotting from with in. Reagan initiated a race to bankruptcy and the Russians won. By not by as much as people like to think. And Reagan's VP paid the political price for it when the credit card finally had to be paid. The USSR was dying and would not be with us today, regardless.

That may or may not be true. What was true s that in the early 1980's Reagan is one of only a handful of US politicians that believed it. President Carter never expressed these opinions.

 

[Buckychudd]

....

Inflation 1974 11.0% First Oil Crisis Your boys. Guess they were to blame if Carter was

Inflation 1975 9.1%

Inflation 1976 5.8%

Inflation 1977 6.5%

Inflation 1978 7.6%

Inflation 1979 11.3% Second Oil Crisis

Inflation 1980 13.5% Your boy

Inflation 1981 10.5%

Took longer to wring it out the second time it seems. Fed rates feel from a high of 14% in 1981 to 8.5% in 1982. The economy took off and the Reagan Miracle was born.

Inflationary pressure started with the deficit spending to support the Vietnam War and were iniated by LBJ in 1965. They peaked on Carters watch but unless we are blaming everyone else before him then it is hard to pin it all on him. Well unless you are trying to make a partisan point regardless of reality.

NCC, you usually have higher standards than this. The election was in November of 1980, and he didn't take office until 1981.

Ouch. So in fact Carter was the ####ty president?

 

[trennr]

Carter of those listed...but I didn't see Hilary!!!

 

[Saints-Man]

...

Inflation 1974 11.0% First Oil Crisis Your boys. Guess they were to blame if Carter was Nixon

Inflation 1975 9.1% Ford

Inflation 1976 5.8% Ford

Inflation 1977 6.5% Carter

Inflation 1978 7.6% Carter

Inflation 1979 11.3% Second Oil Crisis Carter

Inflation 1980 13.5% Your boy Carter

Inflation 1981 10.5% Reagan

Took longer to wring it out the second time it seems. Fed rates feel from a high of 14% in 1981 to 8.5% in 1982. The economy took off and the Reagan Miracle was born.

Inflationary pressure started with the deficit spending to support the Vietnam War and were iniated by LBJ in 1965. They peaked on Carters watch but unless we are blaming everyone else before him then it is hard to pin it all on him. Well unless you are trying to make a partisan point regardless of reality.

Let's recap...I have indicated the president in office in bold...Nixon is to blame in 1974. , Ford in 1975 & 76(both dramatic decreases, btw), Carter( 1977 - increase by 0.7, 1978 - increase by 1.1, 1979 - increase by 3.7, 1980, increase by 2.2), then Reagan in 1981(drop 2.0).

So...with Nixon starting as the baseline, it decreases two years under Ford, increases 4 years under Carter, then decreases once Reagan takes office in 1981.

 

[Buckychudd]

Wierd, if I had to rate them....

The two worst of the ones listed.

1. Carter, D

2. Bush Jr, R

The two best.

1. Reagan, R

2. Clinton, D

 

[saintfool]

HHS discretionary spending doesn't come close to that so it would be interesting to know what they were counting as spending. In fact according to the CRS report to Congress on AIDS spending 1999 spending on AIDS research, prevention and treatment didn't reach the 1 billion mark until 1989.

There is a GAO report from 1988 link that comments on this.

Federal spending on AIDS research and prevention has increased dramatically since 1981 when AIDS was first identified.... In each year since 1983, the Congress has increased the AIDS budget by 76% to 115% over the previous year. Congressional appropriations have consistently exceeded the administration's budget requests...

It goes on...

The experts who served on the IOM committe also expressed frustration at the weak federal leadership and the lack of a sense of urgency inthe education arena. They told us that this is at least as troublesome as the shortfalls in the budget.

and on...

These concerns reflect the general federal response to AIDS within the context of health policymaking in general and the limited role of the federal goverment in domestic social programs in particular, according to health policy researchers. These researchers concluded that the federal response to AIDS appears uncoordinated and insufficent, particularly for public health education and financing of care for treatment of patients. They based their conclusion on systemic factors in our health care system... (5) the tendency to fund AIDS by reallocating funds already appropriated to other existing health programs.

Nice.

 

[NCCommish]

....

Inflation 1974 11.0% First Oil Crisis Your boys. Guess they were to blame if Carter was

Inflation 1975 9.1%

Inflation 1976 5.8%

Inflation 1977 6.5%

Inflation 1978 7.6%

Inflation 1979 11.3% Second Oil Crisis

Inflation 1980 13.5% Your boy

Inflation 1981 10.5%

Took longer to wring it out the second time it seems. Fed rates feel from a high of 14% in 1981 to 8.5% in 1982. The economy took off and the Reagan Miracle was born.

Inflationary pressure started with the deficit spending to support the Vietnam War and were iniated by LBJ in 1965. They peaked on Carters watch but unless we are blaming everyone else before him then it is hard to pin it all on him. Well unless you are trying to make a partisan point regardless of reality.

NCC, you usually have higher standards than this. The election was in November of 1980, and he didn't take office until 1981.

Posting in to many threads.

 

[Redwes25]

...

Inflation 1974 11.0% First Oil Crisis Your boys. Guess they were to blame if Carter was Nixon

Inflation 1975 9.1% Ford

Inflation 1976 5.8% Ford

Inflation 1977 6.5% Carter

Inflation 1978 7.6% Carter

Inflation 1979 11.3% Second Oil Crisis Carter

Inflation 1980 13.5% Your boy Carter

Inflation 1981 10.5% Reagan

Took longer to wring it out the second time it seems. Fed rates feel from a high of 14% in 1981 to 8.5% in 1982. The economy took off and the Reagan Miracle was born.

Inflationary pressure started with the deficit spending to support the Vietnam War and were iniated by LBJ in 1965. They peaked on Carters watch but unless we are blaming everyone else before him then it is hard to pin it all on him. Well unless you are trying to make a partisan point regardless of reality.

Let's recap...I have indicated the president in office in bold...Nixon is to blame in 1974. , Ford in 1975 & 76(both dramatic decreases, btw), Carter( 1977 - increase by 0.7, 1978 - increase by 1.1, 1979 - increase by 3.7, 1980, increase by 2.2), then Reagan in 1981(drop 2.0).

So...with Nixon starting as the baseline, it decreases two years under Ford, increases 4 years under Carter, then decreases once Reagan takes office in 1981.

This argument of who caused inflation is dumb (by both sides). It was an entirely screwed up view of the economy that caused stagflation - Keynasian economics and the philips curve view at the fed. A revolution of economic thinking occured in the 70s led by Milton Friedman, which led us out of the mess. Either way both Carter and Reagan deserve credit because they both let Volcker do what was needed to fix the economy, which was a massive recession in 82 and 83 (the worst since the great depression). They also both started the process of deregulation (airlines, energy, railroads, etc...). Another major change was tax levels (done by Reagan) from marginal rates at 70% to much lower rates we see today.

The late 70s and early 80s were a fundamental change in the economy and the government's role that the US has followed for almost 30 years. Those policy changes implemented by Reagan and a lesser extent Carter really have had a big impact.

 

[NCCommish]

....

Inflation 1974 11.0% First Oil Crisis Your boys. Guess they were to blame if Carter was

Inflation 1975 9.1%

Inflation 1976 5.8%

Inflation 1977 6.5%

Inflation 1978 7.6%

Inflation 1979 11.3% Second Oil Crisis

Inflation 1980 13.5% Your boy

Inflation 1981 10.5%

Took longer to wring it out the second time it seems. Fed rates feel from a high of 14% in 1981 to 8.5% in 1982. The economy took off and the Reagan Miracle was born.

Inflationary pressure started with the deficit spending to support the Vietnam War and were iniated by LBJ in 1965. They peaked on Carters watch but unless we are blaming everyone else before him then it is hard to pin it all on him. Well unless you are trying to make a partisan point regardless of reality.

NCC, you usually have higher standards than this. The election was in November of 1980, and he didn't take office until 1981.

Ouch. So in fact Carter was the ####ty president?

That's what we are debating. I say the inflationary pressure was built in from deficit spending that started with LBJ in Vietnam Bueno thinks it magcally appeared under Carter.

 

[Redwes25]

Wierd, if I had to rate them....The two worst of the ones listed.1. Carter, D2. Bush Jr, RThe two best.1. Reagan, R2. Clinton, D

Agree with this - if we went post WWII I would add truman to the list as best as 1.

 

[NCCommish]

...

Inflation 1974 11.0% First Oil Crisis Your boys. Guess they were to blame if Carter was Nixon

Inflation 1975 9.1% Ford

Inflation 1976 5.8% Ford

Inflation 1977 6.5% Carter

Inflation 1978 7.6% Carter

Inflation 1979 11.3% Second Oil Crisis Carter

Inflation 1980 13.5% Your boy Carter

Inflation 1981 10.5% Reagan

Took longer to wring it out the second time it seems. Fed rates feel from a high of 14% in 1981 to 8.5% in 1982. The economy took off and the Reagan Miracle was born.

Inflationary pressure started with the deficit spending to support the Vietnam War and were iniated by LBJ in 1965. They peaked on Carters watch but unless we are blaming everyone else before him then it is hard to pin it all on him. Well unless you are trying to make a partisan point regardless of reality.

Let's recap...I have indicated the president in office in bold...Nixon is to blame in 1974. , Ford in 1975 & 76(both dramatic decreases, btw), Carter( 1977 - increase by 0.7, 1978 - increase by 1.1, 1979 - increase by 3.7, 1980, increase by 2.2), then Reagan in 1981(drop 2.0).

So...with Nixon starting as the baseline, it decreases two years under Ford, increases 4 years under Carter, then decreases once Reagan takes office in 1981.

This argument of who caused inflation is dumb (by both sides). It was an entirely screwed up view of the economy that caused stagflation - Keynasian economics and the philips curve view at the fed. A revolution of economic thinking occured in the 70s led by Milton Friedman, which led us out of the mess. Either way both Carter and Reagan deserve credit because they both let Volcker do what was needed to fix the economy, which was a massive recession in 82 and 83 (the worst since the great depression). They also both started the process of deregulation (airlines, energy, railroads, etc...). Another major change was tax levels (done by Reagan) from marginal rates at 70% to much lower rates we see today.

The late 70s and early 80s were a fundamental change in the economy and the government's role that the US has followed for almost 30 years. Those policy changes implemented by Reagan and a lesser extent Carter really have had a big impact.

I can live with this. My intent was only to suggest that Carter wasn't to blame entirely for the economy he inherited and Reagan shouldn't get all the credit for the one he inherited.

 

[saintfool]

I can live with this. My intent was only to suggest that Carter wasn't to blame entirely for the economy he inherited and Reagan shouldn't get all the credit for the one he inherited.

seriously! no one is suggesting that carter was a great or even good president. conservatives in the FFA are still cleaning up after the "reagan revolution" circle jerk...

 

[Saints-Man]

...I can live with this. My intent was only to suggest that Carter wasn't to blame entirely for the economy he inherited and Reagan shouldn't get all the credit for the one he inherited.

I can agree also if we also include GHWB and Clinton.

 

[NCCommish]

...I can live with this. My intent was only to suggest that Carter wasn't to blame entirely for the economy he inherited and Reagan shouldn't get all the credit for the one he inherited.

I can agree also if we also include GHWB and Clinton.

Sure.

 

[bueno]

I would have said Nixon prior to this Presidency but there is no way that at this point in time it's anyone but GWB. And I expect the picture to get bleaker not prettier as the years wear on.

Oh and before anyone tries the "you don't remeber the 70's" shtick I remember them just fine. I watched everyday of the Watergate hearings. I remember the helicopter ride of shame away from the White House. I remember the pardon. I remember Carter and the mess he inherited. I remember that the fiscal policies started under Carter gave Reagan the basis for his economy. I remember it all just fine.

You are truly delusional if you believe this is even remotely true.

Carter was battling infaltion that had been on the rise for 15 years. It peaked on his watch. How he can be blamed for inflationary pressures that started under Johnson is a bot of a mystery to me. He also bit the bullet and let Volker do what he had to do to end stagflation. Cheered on by Wall Street I might add. While costing Carter his political career. Because of this Volker was able to expand the money supply in late 81, early 82 which launched the economy of the 80's. And for those who want to talk taxes the top tax rate was the same under Carter as it was under Kennedy. And in fact Carter cut the capital gains tax by something like 10% IIRC.Delusional? Not really.

Yes delusional. In Carter's first year in office, inflation was 6.5% annually. Inflation actually came down from the disasterous 11.3% as a result of the 1973-74 Arab oil embargo, to 9.2% in 1975 and 5.75% in 1976. In other words, when Carter became President in 1977, inflation was already well under control.Then in 1978, it jumped to 7.62%, then 11.22% in 1979, 13.58% in 1980 and 10.35% in 1981. Then suddenly in 1982, it dropped to 6.16% Why, you may ask? The Economic Recovery Tax Act (ERTA) of 1981, the Reagan tax cuts. Source

Inflation was already under control when Carter took office. Carter screwed the pooch with regard to the economy. The Reagan tax cuts was what allowed the economy to recover.

The figures don't lie, NCC.

They can be twisted. You seemed to have forgotten the second oil crisis of '79 contributed to that spike. You also fail to note the Feds rates in there anywhere I see. Incomplete numbers are meaningless.

And who do we blame that second oil crisis on, I wonder? I'm not going to big up every economic indicator to prove how bad Carter was. You brought up the Fed and inflation fighting. You got destroyed on that argument. You said it had been on the rise for 15 years when it had actually been falling leading up to Carter's presidency. Your "facts" are wrong. Your boy sucked.

Inflation 1974 11.0% First Oil Crisis Your boys. Guess they were to blame if Carter wasInflation 1975 9.1%

Inflation 1976 5.8%

Inflation 1977 6.5%

Inflation 1978 7.6%

Inflation 1979 11.3% Second Oil Crisis

Inflation 1980 13.5% Your boy

Inflation 1981 10.5%

Took longer to wring it out the second time it seems. Fed rates feel from a high of 14% in 1981 to 8.5% in 1982. The economy took off and the Reagan Miracle was born.

Inflationary pressure started with the deficit spending to support the Vietnam War and were iniated by LBJ in 1965. They peaked on Carters watch but unless we are blaming everyone else before him then it is hard to pin it all on him. Well unless you are trying to make a partisan point regardless of reality.

I'd like to point out that Carter was President from 1977 to 1981. Inflation began to rise under Carter and peaked during the second oil crisis, but there was more to inflation than the oil crisis. Let's expand your little list:

1963 LBJ Inflation 1.24% Bank Prime interest rates 4.5%

1964 LBJ Inflation 1.28% Bank Prime interest rates 4.5%

1965 LBJ Inflation 1.59% Bank Prime interest rates 4.5%, raised to 4.92% in Dec.

1966 LBJ Inflation 3.01% Bank Prime interest rates rose form 5% to 6% during the year

1967 LBJ Inflation 2.78% Bank Prime interest rates - mostly at 5.5%, but varied from 5.5% to 6%

1968 LBJ Inflation 4.27% Bank Pime interest rates - varied from 6 to 6.6% over the year

1969 LBJ Inflation 5.46% Bank Prime interest rates - steadily rose from 6.9% to 8.5%

1970 RMN Inflation 5.84% Bank Prime interest rate - fell steadily from 8.5% to 6.92% over the year

1971 RMN Inflation 4.30% Bank Prime interest rate - fell from 6.29% to 5.49% over the year

1972 RMN Inflation 3.27%% Bak Prime interest rate - low of 4.75%, high of 5.79%

1973 RMN Inflation 6.16% Arab Oil Embargo - Bank Prime interest rate - rose from 6% to 9.75%

1974 RMN/GRF Inflation 11.03% Arab Oil Embargo - Bank Prime interest rate - varied from 8.75% to 12%

1975 GRF Inflation 9.20% Bank Prime interest rate fell from 10.05% to 7.26%

1976 GRF Inflation 5.75% Bank Prime interest rate fell from 7% to 6.35%

So by the time Carter took over, both the Prime rate and inflation were falling.

1977 JEC Inflation 6.50% Bank Prime interest rate rose from 6.25% to 7.75%

1978 JEC Inflation 7.62% Bank Prime interest rate rose from 7.93% to 11.55%

1979 JEC Inflation 11.20% Bank Prime interest rate rose from 11.75 to 15.3%

1980 JEC Inflation 13.58% Bank Prime interest rate from 15.25 to 20.35%

1981 RWR Inflation 10.35% ERTA Enacted - Bank Prime interest rate falls from 20.16 to 15.75%

1982 RWR Inflation 6.16% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 15.75 to 11.5%

1983 RWR Inflation 3.22% Bank Prime interest rate varies from 11.16% to 11%

1984 RWR Inflation 4.30% Bank Prime interest rate varies from 11% to 11.06%

1985 RWR Inflation 3.55% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 10.61 to 9.5%

1986 RWR Inflation 1.91% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 9.5% to 7.5%

1987 RWR Inflation 3.66% Bank Prime interest rate rises from 7.5% to 8.75% (probnly to slow down that superheated Reagan economy!)

1988 RWR Inflation 4.08% Bank Prime interest rate rises to 10.5%

The numbers once again show that you don't have a grasp on the facts, or that you are cherry-picking. Inflation and interest rates increased under Carter. Reagan set the stge for the Reagan economy.

Interesting that you claim that 70's inflation was the result of deficit spending to support the Vietnam war, yet inflation plummeted during Reagan's military buildup. Doesn't quite ring true does it?

Carter had double-digit inflation, very high interest rates, oil shortages, high unemployment, and slow economic growth. To give him credit for anything positive economically is a joke.

Give up while you're behind.

 

[NCCommish]

Already been moved beyond but you keep plugging away I am sure AE will support your cherrypicking of facts and what the reality is.

 

[Saints-Man]

...I can live with this. My intent was only to suggest that Carter wasn't to blame entirely for the economy he inherited and Reagan shouldn't get all the credit for the one he inherited.

I can agree also if we also include GHWB and Clinton.

Sure.

Then, I am on board.

 

[Bouncing Beatnik]

Carter should be the answer here but too many Bush haters on this board. Take this poll in about 10 years for better results.

 

[NCCommish]

...I can live with this. My intent was only to suggest that Carter wasn't to blame entirely for the economy he inherited and Reagan shouldn't get all the credit for the one he inherited.

I can agree also if we also include GHWB and Clinton.

Sure.

Then, I am on board.

Sounds good.

 

[bueno]

Already been moved beyond but you keep plugging away I am sure AE will support your cherrypicking of facts and what the reality is.

Gave you the whole history. You;re the one that tried to cherry pick - and got your ### handed to you.Typical libersl strategy. Walk away from the arguement when they are proven wrong. Pretend it never happened.

 

[saintfool]

1981 RWR Inflation 10.35% ERTA Enacted - Bank Prime interest rate falls from 20.16 to 15.75%1982 RWR Inflation 6.16% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 15.75 to 11.5%1983 RWR Inflation 3.22% Bank Prime interest rate varies from 11.16% to 11%1984 RWR Inflation 4.30% Bank Prime interest rate varies from 11% to 11.06%1985 RWR Inflation 3.55% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 10.61 to 9.5%1986 RWR Inflation 1.91% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 9.5% to 7.5%1987 RWR Inflation 3.66% Bank Prime interest rate rises from 7.5% to 8.75% (probnly to slow down that superheated Reagan economy!)1988 RWR Inflation 4.08% Bank Prime interest rate rises to 10.5%

who decides interest rates? how does it impact inflation? maybe if we asked paul volcker or alan greenspan we'd find out...by the way, i wonder how the ERTA/1981 tax cuts were impacted by the tax increases the subsequent year?

 

[NCCommish]

Already been moved beyond but you keep plugging away I am sure AE will support your cherrypicking of facts and what the reality is.

Gave you the whole history. You;re the one that tried to cherry pick - and got your ### handed to you.Typical libersl strategy. Walk away from the arguement when they are proven wrong. Pretend it never happened.

You go ahead and feel good about yourself. You have gotten your butt kicked by me so many times I am loathe to burst your bubble.

 

[Redwes25]

1981 RWR Inflation 10.35% ERTA Enacted - Bank Prime interest rate falls from 20.16 to 15.75%1982 RWR Inflation 6.16% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 15.75 to 11.5%1983 RWR Inflation 3.22% Bank Prime interest rate varies from 11.16% to 11%1984 RWR Inflation 4.30% Bank Prime interest rate varies from 11% to 11.06%1985 RWR Inflation 3.55% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 10.61 to 9.5%1986 RWR Inflation 1.91% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 9.5% to 7.5%1987 RWR Inflation 3.66% Bank Prime interest rate rises from 7.5% to 8.75% (probnly to slow down that superheated Reagan economy!)1988 RWR Inflation 4.08% Bank Prime interest rate rises to 10.5%

who decides interest rates? how does it impact inflation? maybe if we asked paul volcker or alan greenspan we'd find out...by the way, i wonder how the ERTA/1981 tax cuts were impacted by the tax increases the subsequent year?

The fed does but when deciding when to set interest rates their primary concern is inflation.

 

[bueno]

Already been moved beyond but you keep plugging away I am sure AE will support your cherrypicking of facts and what the reality is.

Gave you the whole history. You;re the one that tried to cherry pick - and got your ### handed to you.Typical libersl strategy. Walk away from the arguement when they are proven wrong. Pretend it never happened.

You go ahead and feel good about yourself. You have gotten your butt kicked by me so many times I am loathe to burst your bubble.

I'll take that as I concession speech. You're a better man than I my friend. I concede nothing.

 

[Guest]

Carter should be the answer here but too many Bush haters on this board. Take this poll in about 10 years for better results.

Not a "hater" (voted for the guy the 1st time), but certainly the argument for Bush v. Carter can be made pretty easily, no??Lessee what was listed for Carter:1) Iranian Hostages - Don't know how we could control that. Still think some shadiness happened with Reagan and that whole affair. 2) Moscow Olympics? - Who cares?3) Panama? - Hasn't really affected us much has it? 4) Econony - I think we've learned that - while politicians like to take credit - it's really the FED if anyone who controls the economy. - But agreed, Tax rates under Carter were the suck. I just don't think any of those -or ALL of those combined - are anywhere near the f'ing mess we're in now. I mean Carter wasn't exactly a great leader, but he didn't initiate a war - under incorrect pretenses - that's left almost 30,000 dead or wounded American soldiers, tens of thousands of dead Iraqis and destabilize an entire region. - I mean, even our own NIE (not exactly liberals, mind you) have said the War in Iraq has made America and the World far less safe. That's the thing - Iraq. Without that, Bush would look pretty damn good. But Iraq violated a lot of his campaign promises (fiscal responsibility, no nation-building, etc.) - and permanently tainted his Presidency. Speaking of ten years; I think over time the hysteria and rending of garments over Clinton lying about a ####### is going to fall away. That was stupid even back then. I have a feeling historians are going to look back and

 

[bueno]

1981 RWR Inflation 10.35% ERTA Enacted - Bank Prime interest rate falls from 20.16 to 15.75%1982 RWR Inflation 6.16% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 15.75 to 11.5%1983 RWR Inflation 3.22% Bank Prime interest rate varies from 11.16% to 11%1984 RWR Inflation 4.30% Bank Prime interest rate varies from 11% to 11.06%1985 RWR Inflation 3.55% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 10.61 to 9.5%1986 RWR Inflation 1.91% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 9.5% to 7.5%1987 RWR Inflation 3.66% Bank Prime interest rate rises from 7.5% to 8.75% (probnly to slow down that superheated Reagan economy!)1988 RWR Inflation 4.08% Bank Prime interest rate rises to 10.5%

who decides interest rates? how does it impact inflation? maybe if we asked paul volcker or alan greenspan we'd find out...by the way, i wonder how the ERTA/1981 tax cuts were impacted by the tax increases the subsequent year?

Hardly at all.

 

[bueno]

Carter should be the answer here but too many Bush haters on this board. Take this poll in about 10 years for better results.

Not a "hater" (voted for the guy the 1st time), but certainly the argument for Bush v. Carter can be made pretty easily, no??Lessee what was listed for Carter:1) Iranian Hostages - Don't know how we could control that. Still think some shadiness happened with Reagan and that whole affair. 2) Moscow Olympics? - Who cares?3) Panama? - Hasn't really affected us much has it? 4) Econony - I think we've learned that - while politicians like to take credit - it's really the FED if anyone who controls the economy. - But agreed, Tax rates under Carter were the suck. I just don't think any of those -or ALL of those combined - are anywhere near the f'ing mess we're in now. I mean Carter wasn't exactly a great leader, but he didn't initiate a war - under incorrect pretenses - that's left almost 30,000 dead or wounded American soldiers, tens of thousands of dead Iraqis and destabilize an entire region. - I mean, even our own NIE (not exactly liberals, mind you) have said the War in Iraq has made America and the World far less safe. That's the thing - Iraq. Without that, Bush would look pretty damn good. But Iraq violated a lot of his campaign promises (fiscal responsibility, no nation-building, etc.) - and permanently tainted his Presidency. Speaking of ten years; I think over time the hysteria and rending of garments over Clinton lying about a ####### is going to fall away. That was stupid even back then. I have a feeling historians are going to look back and

It all omes down to Iraq with Bush and that story isn't done yet. I agree that the issues with Clinton will be unimportant ten years from now. Clinton was okay just because he didn't do anything grievously wrong. But Carter was a total failure. Bad things happened in this world because he was weak.

 

[Todd Andrews]

W: Mission Accomplished!

 

[TwinTurbo]

Anybody in this poll who says Reagan is a tool. Period.If not the greatest President of the 20th Century, right behind only FDR.Carter was an unmitigated disaster.Reagan, not only put pressures on the Soviet Union which caused it to economically collapse, he was the ONLY one who actually thought this could happen.If it was up to the liberals in this country, the SU would still be around and we'd still be having arms limitations talks and hearing about how we should try to work with them, basically let them HAVE Eastern Europe. After all, what's a few hundred million people in living under a brutal dictatorship.Reagan and Reagan alone saw the Soviet Union and a corrupt and evil enterprise that could be defeated if America only wanted to. The SDI was the straw that finally broke the camels back. Gorbachev KNEW he couldn't afford to build it and that Reagan could. Only then did Gorbachev start talking about Glasnost, a nice name which should have been called, instead, "Yes Mr. Reagan, I am your #####." It was brilliant strategy. Also, how about the Pershing missles in Western Europe. THAT put lots of pressure on the Soviets. They no longer could count on the Red Army as being a significant deterent for us. If the Red Army as much as put their big toe into Western Europe, Moscow would be destroyed in 15 minutes.

The Soviet Union was rotting from with in. Reagan initiated a race to bankruptcy and the Russians won. By not by as much as people like to think. And Reagan's VP paid the political price for it when the credit card finally had to be paid. The USSR was dying and would not be with us today, regardless.

I disagree. The USSR would still be around if not for Reagan. Yes there were many other factors as well, but Reagan was one of the primary forces behind the demise of the Soviet Union. Communist China is still alive and kicking and very much an emerging superpower. The USSR would be as well without the aggressive polices from the Reagan administration. They ran out of money and resources as a result of the great arms race, Cold War economics, and poor foreign policy decisions.

 

[Guest]

Can someone smarter and older than me elaborate on why Carter is considered such a miserable failure? Please include specifics if you don't mind.I've heard that he wasn't the "tough" guy on some issues, but was he a total failure?I've heard that Carter did most of the negotiating for the hostage release, only to have Reagan steal his thunder after the election - is this not the case?

No. Carter tried a rescue and blew it.

Now see, that's bullshiit right there. I'M old enough to remember all these things. I've read analyses after the fact. Tell me one thing that Carter did that caused - or even contributed to - the failure of the rescue attempt. Two choppers went down due to mechanical failure and a third one clipped another - Carter wasn't at the helm nor under the hood.it sounds like you have a real personal distaste for Carter - and I'm not doing to dissuade you - But don't pull crap like "Carter blew the rescue". It wasn't his fault - and pretty ballsy to green-light it in the first place.

 

[Guest]

But Carter was a total failure. Bad things happened in this world because he was weak.

I'm really interested in you POV and I'm willing to be educated. I've seen some of your posts before on this. What specific bad things are you talking about? I agree with you that he was President during a shiithole of an economy. I honestly don't know how much impact politicians really have on the economy. I think it's mostly cyclical; The current guy blames the last guy if it's bad - and the guy who gets the good economy takes all the credit for himself - when most economies take years to turn around.

 

[Gambler]

GDub in a friggin' landslide!

 

[saintfool]

1981 RWR Inflation 10.35% ERTA Enacted - Bank Prime interest rate falls from 20.16 to 15.75%

1982 RWR Inflation 6.16% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 15.75 to 11.5%

1983 RWR Inflation 3.22% Bank Prime interest rate varies from 11.16% to 11%

1984 RWR Inflation 4.30% Bank Prime interest rate varies from 11% to 11.06%

1985 RWR Inflation 3.55% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 10.61 to 9.5%

1986 RWR Inflation 1.91% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 9.5% to 7.5%

1987 RWR Inflation 3.66% Bank Prime interest rate rises from 7.5% to 8.75% (probnly to slow down that superheated Reagan economy!)

1988 RWR Inflation 4.08% Bank Prime interest rate rises to 10.5%

who decides interest rates? how does it impact inflation? maybe if we asked paul volcker or alan greenspan we'd find out...by the way, i wonder how the ERTA/1981 tax cuts were impacted by the tax increases the subsequent year?

Hardly at all.

hmm... so the person who was responsible (not an appointee by Reagan either) for the federal reserve and its policy, who independently determines interest rates, that you use in bragging about the Reagan economic policy (low inflation=good economic policy) is not to be properly credited? right. as for Reagan and the tax cuts... link

It's conservative lore that Reagan the icon cut taxes, while George H.W. Bush the renegade raised them. As Stockman recalls, "No one was authorized to talk about tax increases on Ronald Reagan's watch, no matter what kind of tax, no matter how justified it was." Yet raising taxes is exactly what Reagan did. He did not always instigate those hikes or agree to them willingly--but he signed off on them. One year after his massive tax cut, Reagan agreed to a tax increase to reduce the deficit that restored fully one-third of the previous year's reduction. (In a bizarre bit of self-deception, Reagan, who never came to terms with this episode of ideological apostasy, persuaded himself that the three-year, $100 billion tax hike--the largest since World War II--was actually "tax reform" that closed loopholes in his earlier cut and therefore didn't count as raising taxes.)

Faced with looming deficits, Reagan raised taxes again in 1983 with a gasoline tax and once more in 1984, this time by $50 billion over three years, mainly through closing tax loopholes for business. Despite the fact that such increases were anathema to conservatives--and probably cost Reagan's successor, George H.W. Bush, reelection--Reagan raised taxes a grand total of four times just between 1982-84.

 

[NCCommish]

Anybody in this poll who says Reagan is a tool. Period.If not the greatest President of the 20th Century, right behind only FDR.Carter was an unmitigated disaster.Reagan, not only put pressures on the Soviet Union which caused it to economically collapse, he was the ONLY one who actually thought this could happen.If it was up to the liberals in this country, the SU would still be around and we'd still be having arms limitations talks and hearing about how we should try to work with them, basically let them HAVE Eastern Europe. After all, what's a few hundred million people in living under a brutal dictatorship.Reagan and Reagan alone saw the Soviet Union and a corrupt and evil enterprise that could be defeated if America only wanted to. The SDI was the straw that finally broke the camels back. Gorbachev KNEW he couldn't afford to build it and that Reagan could. Only then did Gorbachev start talking about Glasnost, a nice name which should have been called, instead, "Yes Mr. Reagan, I am your #####." It was brilliant strategy. Also, how about the Pershing missles in Western Europe. THAT put lots of pressure on the Soviets. They no longer could count on the Red Army as being a significant deterent for us. If the Red Army as much as put their big toe into Western Europe, Moscow would be destroyed in 15 minutes.

The Soviet Union was rotting from with in. Reagan initiated a race to bankruptcy and the Russians won. By not by as much as people like to think. And Reagan's VP paid the political price for it when the credit card finally had to be paid. The USSR was dying and would not be with us today, regardless.

I disagree. The USSR would still be around if not for Reagan. Yes there were many other factors as well, but Reagan was one of the primary forces behind the demise of the Soviet Union. Communist China is still alive and kicking and very much an emerging superpower. The USSR would be as well without the aggressive polices from the Reagan administration. They ran out of money and resources as a result of the great arms race, Cold War economics, and poor foreign policy decisions.

You can't really compare Chine and the USSR. Two totally different animals. And no the USSR wouldn't be here either way. It was collapsing under the weight of it's own failures including it's Vietnam fling in Afghanistan.

 

[bueno]

Can someone smarter and older than me elaborate on why Carter is considered such a miserable failure? Please include specifics if you don't mind.I've heard that he wasn't the "tough" guy on some issues, but was he a total failure?I've heard that Carter did most of the negotiating for the hostage release, only to have Reagan steal his thunder after the election - is this not the case?

No. Carter tried a rescue and blew it.

Now see, that's bullshiit right there. I'M old enough to remember all these things. I've read analyses after the fact. Tell me one thing that Carter did that caused - or even contributed to - the failure of the rescue attempt. Two choppers went down due to mechanical failure and a third one clipped another - Carter wasn't at the helm nor under the hood.it sounds like you have a real personal distaste for Carter - and I'm not doing to dissuade you - But don't pull crap like "Carter blew the rescue". It wasn't his fault - and pretty ballsy to green-light it in the first place.

I'm probably at least as old as you. Carter approved a mission that was under-manned, required a level of cooperation between the services that didn't exist at the time, and when it failed, we left our guys behind for the Iranians to display on TV. Not to mention that we probably lost most of our internal intelligence gathering cpability because of that failed mission. All those people that turned out to help a rescue mission that never showed didn't stand a chance after that. Carter was CIC. The rsponsibility for the failed mission is his.Unless you want to argue that the failures in Iraq aren't Bush's fault.....

 

[bueno]

1981 RWR Inflation 10.35% ERTA Enacted - Bank Prime interest rate falls from 20.16 to 15.75%

1982 RWR Inflation 6.16% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 15.75 to 11.5%

1983 RWR Inflation 3.22% Bank Prime interest rate varies from 11.16% to 11%

1984 RWR Inflation 4.30% Bank Prime interest rate varies from 11% to 11.06%

1985 RWR Inflation 3.55% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 10.61 to 9.5%

1986 RWR Inflation 1.91% Bank Prime interest rate falls from 9.5% to 7.5%

1987 RWR Inflation 3.66% Bank Prime interest rate rises from 7.5% to 8.75% (probnly to slow down that superheated Reagan economy!)

1988 RWR Inflation 4.08% Bank Prime interest rate rises to 10.5%

who decides interest rates? how does it impact inflation? maybe if we asked paul volcker or alan greenspan we'd find out...by the way, i wonder how the ERTA/1981 tax cuts were impacted by the tax increases the subsequent year?

Hardly at all.

hmm... so the person who was responsible (not an appointee by Reagan either) for the federal reserve and its policy, who independently determines interest rates, that you use in bragging about the Reagan economic policy (low inflation=good economic policy) is not to be properly credited? right. as for Reagan and the tax cuts... link

It's conservative lore that Reagan the icon cut taxes, while George H.W. Bush the renegade raised them. As Stockman recalls, "No one was authorized to talk about tax increases on Ronald Reagan's watch, no matter what kind of tax, no matter how justified it was." Yet raising taxes is exactly what Reagan did. He did not always instigate those hikes or agree to them willingly--but he signed off on them. One year after his massive tax cut, Reagan agreed to a tax increase to reduce the deficit that restored fully one-third of the previous year's reduction. (In a bizarre bit of self-deception, Reagan, who never came to terms with this episode of ideological apostasy, persuaded himself that the three-year, $100 billion tax hike--the largest since World War II--was actually "tax reform" that closed loopholes in his earlier cut and therefore didn't count as raising taxes.)

Faced with looming deficits, Reagan raised taxes again in 1983 with a gasoline tax and once more in 1984, this time by $50 billion over three years, mainly through closing tax loopholes for business. Despite the fact that such increases were anathema to conservatives--and probably cost Reagan's successor, George H.W. Bush, reelection--Reagan raised taxes a grand total of four times just between 1982-84.

What does that have to do with the tax cuts and then increases the following year? The tax increases were not as severe as the tax cuts, and weren't across the board. For example, he eliminated credit card interest as a tax deduction. Certainly motivated me not to get into a deficit pending mode with that one. And I htink that was probably good for the economy in the long run.As to interest rates, if Volker gets credit during the Reaan years, he gets blame during the Carter years as well. Reagan was the driving force, not Volker

 

[saintfool]

I disagree. The USSR would still be around if not for Reagan. Yes there were many other factors as well, but Reagan was one of the primary forces behind the demise of the Soviet Union. Communist China is still alive and kicking and very much an emerging superpower. The USSR would be as well without the aggressive polices from the Reagan administration. They ran out of money and resources as a result of the great arms race, Cold War economics, and poor foreign policy decisions.

"Meet the new boss! Same as the old boss..."You act as if Gorbachev is the same kind of Soviet leader as his predecessors. Maybe going toe to toe in nuclear combat seemed like a worthwhile endeavor prior to 1985 but after MG came to power the reforms began. He began the thaw. In 1986, he was ready to a radical arms reductions deal with Reagan. It was nixed because Reagan wouldn't give up on Star Wars. It took another year before a serious agreement was signed. These choices that Gorbachev made were not completely supported by the politburo either. The subsequent failed coup attempts by soviet hardliners prove that.

 

[bueno]

Anybody in this poll who says Reagan is a tool. Period.If not the greatest President of the 20th Century, right behind only FDR.Carter was an unmitigated disaster.Reagan, not only put pressures on the Soviet Union which caused it to economically collapse, he was the ONLY one who actually thought this could happen.If it was up to the liberals in this country, the SU would still be around and we'd still be having arms limitations talks and hearing about how we should try to work with them, basically let them HAVE Eastern Europe. After all, what's a few hundred million people in living under a brutal dictatorship.Reagan and Reagan alone saw the Soviet Union and a corrupt and evil enterprise that could be defeated if America only wanted to. The SDI was the straw that finally broke the camels back. Gorbachev KNEW he couldn't afford to build it and that Reagan could. Only then did Gorbachev start talking about Glasnost, a nice name which should have been called, instead, "Yes Mr. Reagan, I am your #####." It was brilliant strategy. Also, how about the Pershing missles in Western Europe. THAT put lots of pressure on the Soviets. They no longer could count on the Red Army as being a significant deterent for us. If the Red Army as much as put their big toe into Western Europe, Moscow would be destroyed in 15 minutes.

The Soviet Union was rotting from with in. Reagan initiated a race to bankruptcy and the Russians won. By not by as much as people like to think. And Reagan's VP paid the political price for it when the credit card finally had to be paid. The USSR was dying and would not be with us today, regardless.

I disagree. The USSR would still be around if not for Reagan. Yes there were many other factors as well, but Reagan was one of the primary forces behind the demise of the Soviet Union. Communist China is still alive and kicking and very much an emerging superpower. The USSR would be as well without the aggressive polices from the Reagan administration. They ran out of money and resources as a result of the great arms race, Cold War economics, and poor foreign policy decisions.

You can't really compare Chine and the USSR. Two totally different animals. And no the USSR wouldn't be here either way. It was collapsing under the weight of it's own failures including it's Vietnam fling in Afghanistan.

I'm not sure you can say that the USSR wouldn't be around either way. Hard to predict what Gorbachev would have done if his adversary was Carter. while the fling in Afghanistan was probably as damagng to the Russian psyche as Vietnam was to ours, it's hard to blame the collapse of an empire on a single military defeat. The reason they were collapsing economically did have something to do with an arms race though.

 

[bueno]

I disagree. The USSR would still be around if not for Reagan. Yes there were many other factors as well, but Reagan was one of the primary forces behind the demise of the Soviet Union. Communist China is still alive and kicking and very much an emerging superpower. The USSR would be as well without the aggressive polices from the Reagan administration. They ran out of money and resources as a result of the great arms race, Cold War economics, and poor foreign policy decisions.

"Meet the new boss! Same as the old boss..."You act as if Gorbachev is the same kind of Soviet leader as his predecessors. Maybe going toe to toe in nuclear combat seemed like a worthwhile endeavor prior to 1985 but after MG came to power the reforms began. He began the thaw. In 1986, he was ready to a radical arms reductions deal with Reagan. It was nixed because Reagan wouldn't give up on Star Wars. It took another year before a serious agreement was signed. These choices that Gorbachev made were not completely supported by the politburo either. The subsequent failed coup attempts by soviet hardliners prove that.

He wanted radical arms reductions because he knew he could't compete with the US in another arms race.

 

[saintfool]

What does that have to do with the tax cuts and then increases the following year? The tax increases were not as severe as the tax cuts, and weren't across the board. For example, he eliminated credit card interest as a tax deduction. Certainly motivated me not to get into a deficit pending mode with that one. And I htink that was probably good for the economy in the long run.As to interest rates, if Volker gets credit during the Reaan years, he gets blame during the Carter years as well. Reagan was the driving force, not Volker

My point regarding the Reagan tax cuts is that it's not as sweeping and clearly not as successful as you seem to think. I mean, after all, he added increased taxes again and again afterwards. As for Volcker, he can take the blame for Carter's years if he's the head of the Fed. That began in 1979.