saintfool
Dead sexy
I'm going to hazard a guess and say the Great Society legislation makes him wildly unpopular with the FBG conservatives. That and he beat Goldwater's ### in the election...
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Worst US President of the last 50 years (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Righetti
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Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya
Footballguy
Not possible.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
Yea...the idea of a "war on poverty" and pushing through the civil rights legislation were terrible iniatives.
Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya
Footballguy
You callin' us soldiers "stupid"?Carter had military experience. Granted in was on nuclear subs, but he was CIC and he approved the mission. That included any contingency planning (obviously there wasn't any), staffing, command structure and mision size (including the aircraft). It doesn't matter what he specified. He was presented with a bad plan and he approved it. It makes it his responsibility.You know damned well there was no internet then so finding a link is damned hard.
Dude, you're cracking me up. You're telling me you can't find Reagan's speeches on the 'net? You DO know they posted stuff that said and done BEFORE the internet, don't you?
But do you really think that eight helicopters even loaded with Marines had a prayer in hell of rescuing 52 hostages held in the capital of a hostile country?
Do you think Carter specified the criterion for the mission?
Do you really think putting together a mission like that with no contingency planning is an act of military genius?
Do you think Carter told required this happen? See, he actually HAD "military geniuses" that designed this plan. - As is their job.
Do you really think that leaving behind documents identifying our operatives in Iraq was an act of competence? Do you think leaving behind six intact helicopters was good planning? And the mission was aborted before the third(it was actually the fourth) helicoipter crashed.
Do you think Carter specified that when he drafted the rescue attempt all by himself? Heck, I'm surprised he wasn't flying the damn birds too! I guess you're giving him a break for not alleging that he made the chopper pilot clip the other bird - thanks for that. What a guy! He completely bypassed the entire Pentagon and drafted the whole plan himself!
Carter approved the plan. It's his failure.
And, even though he wasn't responsible for a single element that caused the failure, like a man, he nutted up and took responsibility. Again, if you're play it that way, Bush is directly and personably responsbile for the deaths of almost 3,000 more soldiers than Carter - which is worse??
You act like this is the only President who approved failed covert missions. I have news for ya buddy, he ain't. And a whole bunch died under Reagan's (& virtually every other President's) command too. 'Course, we don't hear a lot about those... (hence the "covert") If you're gonna cherry-pick one, you gotta include them all.
Seems to me that didn't do John Kerry's cred much good now, did it?
Saints-Man
Footballguy
Fixed that for you.
commisholio
Come out with your pants down!
I would agree. The answer to this question is plainly GWB.
Saints-Man
Footballguy
All goes to the question of what you consider a bad president. Is one that is totally ineffectual and sinks the morale of the entire country, making people believe less and less in America? Then it is Carter.
If it is someone that is effective in implementing his proposals yet leads the country down a path you are in total disagreement making some people embarrased to be an American, then the answer is GWB.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
It should be obvious to most anyone with intelligence above that of a special needs child, that the 2 worst presidents of this poll are GWB and Carter. So which is worse? Let's see.
Carter's economic policy was horrid, while the economy is doing pretty well under Bush. Advantage: Bush. But when you take into account the debt GWB is piling up with all of his excess spending (does he even know what a veto is?), and realize we as a country are going to have to pay for this later, GWB's initial sizable advantage diminishes greatly.
Carter's foreign policy has been well criticized, as it should, but he looks like the foreign policy master of the universe compared to GWB. After 9/11, basically just about every country in the world was with us and would do whatever to help our country. It's just about the exact opposite now 5 years later. I don't know if anyone could do a worse job with foreign policy than GWB even if they tried. Advantage: Carter.
We'll use national security as a tiebreaker, and obviously GWB has the worst record on national security of any president outside of possibly FDR. Advantage: Carter.
Finally, lets examine the how difficult the US was to lead during each president's tenure. Carter had to deal with oil embargo's and he was considered and outsider in Washington and treated as such. It was difficult for him to get his policies placed into law. Meanwhile the republicans had control of the House and Senate the first 6 years of Bush's presidency. No president during my lifetime has had an easier time getting their legislation passed. And despite 9/11 being Bush's biggest failure, afterwards he was in a position of power that no other president during my life has been in. His approval ratings were at record highs, and the general public was willing to go along with just about whatever he wanted. I remember he basically told us to go shopping after 9/11, that's it. And then we let him get us into Iraq, which was the worst mistake of my lifetime.
Once you look at things objectively, GWB is the easy winner as worst president.
Carter's economic policy was horrid, while the economy is doing pretty well under Bush. Advantage: Bush. But when you take into account the debt GWB is piling up with all of his excess spending (does he even know what a veto is?), and realize we as a country are going to have to pay for this later, GWB's initial sizable advantage diminishes greatly.
Carter's foreign policy has been well criticized, as it should, but he looks like the foreign policy master of the universe compared to GWB. After 9/11, basically just about every country in the world was with us and would do whatever to help our country. It's just about the exact opposite now 5 years later. I don't know if anyone could do a worse job with foreign policy than GWB even if they tried. Advantage: Carter.
We'll use national security as a tiebreaker, and obviously GWB has the worst record on national security of any president outside of possibly FDR. Advantage: Carter.
Finally, lets examine the how difficult the US was to lead during each president's tenure. Carter had to deal with oil embargo's and he was considered and outsider in Washington and treated as such. It was difficult for him to get his policies placed into law. Meanwhile the republicans had control of the House and Senate the first 6 years of Bush's presidency. No president during my lifetime has had an easier time getting their legislation passed. And despite 9/11 being Bush's biggest failure, afterwards he was in a position of power that no other president during my life has been in. His approval ratings were at record highs, and the general public was willing to go along with just about whatever he wanted. I remember he basically told us to go shopping after 9/11, that's it. And then we let him get us into Iraq, which was the worst mistake of my lifetime.
Once you look at things objectively, GWB is the easy winner as worst president.
commisholio
Come out with your pants down!
Seems to me that GWB has been totally ineffectual and has destroyed the morale of the entire country and made the entire world believe less and less in America. I think he fails on both measures.Saints-Man said:
Fallerjw
Footballguy
Saints-Man
Footballguy
GWB did get his measure passed. Tax cut, No Child Left Behind act, and Patriot Bill, the war in Iraq. He did what he declared he intended to do. I would say that makes him effective. For those of us who are against the war, we dislike his use of American power. We think it is leading the country down a bad path. But we still believe America is strong, but dangerously misguided. With Carter, the general perception is that we had become very weak. The economy was sunk, we were weak abroad, everything. Now we are strong, but many people outside of the US think us to be a bully, not weak.
I don't think either extreme is good. But I think they are symptoms of two different diseases.
bueno
In a class by himself
NCC and I are friends. You'd just never know it.
bueno
In a class by himself
Nah - just the generals.Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya said:You callin' us soldiers "stupid"?Carter had military experience. Granted in was on nuclear subs, but he was CIC and he approved the mission. That included any contingency planning (obviously there wasn't any), staffing, command structure and mision size (including the aircraft). It doesn't matter what he specified. He was presented with a bad plan and he approved it. It makes it his responsibility.You know damned well there was no internet then so finding a link is damned hard.
Dude, you're cracking me up. You're telling me you can't find Reagan's speeches on the 'net? You DO know they posted stuff that said and done BEFORE the internet, don't you?
But do you really think that eight helicopters even loaded with Marines had a prayer in hell of rescuing 52 hostages held in the capital of a hostile country?
Do you think Carter specified the criterion for the mission?
Do you really think putting together a mission like that with no contingency planning is an act of military genius?
Do you think Carter told required this happen? See, he actually HAD "military geniuses" that designed this plan. - As is their job.
Do you really think that leaving behind documents identifying our operatives in Iraq was an act of competence? Do you think leaving behind six intact helicopters was good planning? And the mission was aborted before the third(it was actually the fourth) helicoipter crashed.
Do you think Carter specified that when he drafted the rescue attempt all by himself? Heck, I'm surprised he wasn't flying the damn birds too! I guess you're giving him a break for not alleging that he made the chopper pilot clip the other bird - thanks for that. What a guy! He completely bypassed the entire Pentagon and drafted the whole plan himself!
Carter approved the plan. It's his failure.
And, even though he wasn't responsible for a single element that caused the failure, like a man, he nutted up and took responsibility. Again, if you're play it that way, Bush is directly and personably responsbile for the deaths of almost 3,000 more soldiers than Carter - which is worse??
You act like this is the only President who approved failed covert missions. I have news for ya buddy, he ain't. And a whole bunch died under Reagan's (& virtually every other President's) command too. 'Course, we don't hear a lot about those... (hence the "covert") If you're gonna cherry-pick one, you gotta include them all.
Saints-Man
Footballguy
While JFK/LBJ/Nixon rightly deserve blame for Vietnam, at least LBJ pushed for and passed the Civil Rights Bill. That is the most signicant piece of social legislation in the 20th century.
bueno
In a class by himself
1. Ronald Reagan - won the cold war, got America back on track, cut taxes, set the stage for a long period of prosperity
2. Dwight Eisenhower - built interstate system
3. John F. Kennedy - cut taxes, was a good orator and motivator. Cuban Missile Crisis a (+). Bay of Pigs a (-)
4. Gerald Ford - really didn't do anything, so he never did anything wrong
5. Bill Clinton - see Gerald Ford. The worst thing Bill did was marry Hillary, or I could give him #
6. Richard Nixon - opened up China, tried to win the Vietnam war, but his own paranoia did him in
7. George H.W. Bush raised taxes and left Saddam in charge in Iraq (though he didn't have much choice in the matter)
8. George W. Bush - long on ideas, short on execution. Fiscally too liberal
9. Lyndon B. Johnson - totally screwed up Vietnam and was too big a sender at home. Gets some credit for equal rights, but wouldn't have happened w/o MLK.
10. Jimmy Carter - simply put, hescrewed up everything he touched. It's a wonder he could raise peanuts.
2. Dwight Eisenhower - built interstate system
3. John F. Kennedy - cut taxes, was a good orator and motivator. Cuban Missile Crisis a (+). Bay of Pigs a (-)
4. Gerald Ford - really didn't do anything, so he never did anything wrong
5. Bill Clinton - see Gerald Ford. The worst thing Bill did was marry Hillary, or I could give him #
6. Richard Nixon - opened up China, tried to win the Vietnam war, but his own paranoia did him in
7. George H.W. Bush raised taxes and left Saddam in charge in Iraq (though he didn't have much choice in the matter)
8. George W. Bush - long on ideas, short on execution. Fiscally too liberal
9. Lyndon B. Johnson - totally screwed up Vietnam and was too big a sender at home. Gets some credit for equal rights, but wouldn't have happened w/o MLK.
10. Jimmy Carter - simply put, hescrewed up everything he touched. It's a wonder he could raise peanuts.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
LOL, something about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer, huh?
NCCommish
Footballguy
True
Marvin88
Footballguy
I do not understand how Carter is not running away with this! I corrected his ranking.
T
trader jake
Guest
I was thinking the same thing. Clinton has more votes than Nixon in this poll...wow.Koya said:
NCCommish
Footballguy
Prior to this Presidency I would have voted Nixon with no hesitation. Nixon was an arrogant, power hungry, paranoid, constitution shredder. Of that there is no doubt. Imperial presidency indeed. But he actually did do some good. Detente with Russia. Opening China. Getting us out of Vietnam. He sounded conservative but often seemed to do traditionally liberal things. His stances on the environment are way different than this current crop of conservatives. He wasn't bad on Civil Rights. And he did some liberal seeming things economically. So except for the lying, cheating, and stealing....At any rate with this current president we get the arrogance, the power hunger, the paranoia and the constitutional shredding with none of the payoff. He wins.Koya said:
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Hopefully this is sarcasm (I can't tell). If not, I'll just remind you that GWB started serving his term as president in January 2001. One of the two worst national security failures in US history occurred several months later in September 2001 (the other was Pearl Harbor).
You're welcome.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
About the same as the War on Drugs, and I'd guess ultimately about the same as War on Terror.
cstu
Footballguy
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Uhmmmm....someone's missing from that list.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Norman Paperman
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Honestly the media has been progressively worse due to technology over the last 3 decades. In the same way we see more about our sports athletes and micromanage everything they do, politicians are under the microscope more than theyve ever been. Bush and Obama really havent been that much worse than past presidents. If FDR tried the New Deal today he would be vilified just as Obama was for Obamacare. Hoe would Pearl Harbor have been handled with the internet? How much scrutiny would FDR have come under for not doing enough to prevent it and then using it to get America into a war we didnt belong in? Lincoln was one of the most reviled presidents in US history. Both his own party and opponents at times hated him. The war powers he took during the Civil War would have liberals today literally frothing at the mouth.
In the grand scheme, Obama and Bush have been pretty average. They just served in an extraordinary technological age.
timschochet
Footballguy
.
Really, anybody who considers Obama to be one of the worst Presidents ever is either (a) a partisan hack or (b) ignorant of history. I'm not trying to be insulting, but there is simply no criteria by which Obama would fall into the "worst" category. (Or the best category for that matter- he falls decidedly in the middle. He's mediocre.)
No there isn't.
Really, anybody who considers Obama to be one of the worst Presidents ever is either (a) a partisan hack or (b) ignorant of history. I'm not trying to be insulting, but there is simply no criteria by which Obama would fall into the "worst" category. (Or the best category for that matter- he falls decidedly in the middle. He's mediocre.)
timschochet
Footballguy
I would rank Bush as slightly below average except for the Iraq war. That one decision brings his Presidency down toward the bottom.
drummer
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
He's not especially guilty of that. In fact, if anything, he's helped to bring it down.
Let's consider the factors that have run up our debt the most since 2000, in order:
1. The Bush tax cuts
2. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq
3. Medicare Plan B
4. Tarp
5. The Stimulus package
Of the 5 of these, Obama is only responsible for the last one. And by repealing part of the Bush tax cuts and drawing down troops in Iraq (and soon in Afghanistan) he's actually reduced our yearly deficit otherwise. So you can't blame Obama for the debt (though conservatives do, which constantly amazes me.)
He will end up with 8 years (some of which had huge majority control of Congress to work with), and he did very little to address the debt. Certainly nothing to address the long term problem.
Even if a lot of the debt occurred from things being on auto pilot that he inherited, it's still on him to change things, or take responsibility.
timschochet
Footballguy
He certainly tried to deal with it in the summer of 2011. But you're right, he should have spent more time on it. It's one of the reasons, IMO, he will be remembered as a mediocre President rather than a good one.
But to blame him for it, as so many conservatives do, to attempt to make Obama the central REASON that the debt has grown over the years- that's just dishonest. It's political revisionism.
I hold him responsible for the growth of the debt on his watch. I think that's fair as I feel the same about every president we've had.
timschochet
Footballguy
That's fine, but in that case you can hardly consider Obama to be the worst President ever (not saying you do.)
Jeff Vader
Footballguy
I love Jimmy Carter as the man and post-office diplomat and humanitarian, but even I can admit his presidency was an utter failure.
That said, it's hard to find any president who turned the country into an absolute disaster with myopic boneheaded decision after myopic boneheaded decision like Dubya. The funny thing is I think he's actually a decent fellow. Just not all that bright - he always been more of a follower than a leader, who was blessed/cursed with a brand name. His inability to stand up to his cronies (Cheney) for the first 6 years of office was his primary undoing.
That said, it's hard to find any president who turned the country into an absolute disaster with myopic boneheaded decision after myopic boneheaded decision like Dubya. The funny thing is I think he's actually a decent fellow. Just not all that bright - he always been more of a follower than a leader, who was blessed/cursed with a brand name. His inability to stand up to his cronies (Cheney) for the first 6 years of office was his primary undoing.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
1. Nixon - the worst - I have no idea how people are ranking presidents as worse than him, no idea
2. Carter - that economy was really awful, we almost hit a Hoover tailspin
3. LBJ - he practically resigned
4. Ford - Pardoned Nixon, yikes, but then he did manage to calm the country after a tough stretch
5. GWB (Jr.)
6. JFK - obviously having less than a full term affects things
7. GHWB (Sr.) - Basically Reagan II
8. Clinton
9. Reagan
10. Ike
(I think BHO will land somewhere in that 4-5 tier, but obviously incomplete right now).
2. Carter - that economy was really awful, we almost hit a Hoover tailspin
3. LBJ - he practically resigned
4. Ford - Pardoned Nixon, yikes, but then he did manage to calm the country after a tough stretch
5. GWB (Jr.)
6. JFK - obviously having less than a full term affects things
7. GHWB (Sr.) - Basically Reagan II
8. Clinton
9. Reagan
10. Ike
(I think BHO will land somewhere in that 4-5 tier, but obviously incomplete right now).
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JaxBill
Footballguy
almost 8 years later, some on the other side of the aisle would agree wholeheartedly with the last couple sentences.
FUBAR
Footballguy
He's criminal, but at least he didn't initiate a needless war causing 4,000 American deaths and between 30,000-100,000 Americans wounded.
igbomb
Footballguy
Sorry, Bush was nowhere near average. I'm not going to blame the guy for 9/11. But the rest of his 'accomplishments' in office have been generally awful for our country.
Iraq
Bush tax cuts
Intrusion on privacy
Foreign relations
And I'm not even getting into the Great Recession.
He's the worst in my lifetime by a country mile.
Jeff Vader
Footballguy
Soonerman has a point about the media, Lincoln and FDR would have been lambasted by today's media. But I also think history would have judged them much the same as heroes.
I can't say that for Dubya. He will go down as an epic failure. Not a bumbling Taft failure, but an epic worst-decisions-ever type of cluster####.
As for Obama, my near-sighted opinion is he's fairly average as a president, at times bad (NSA, refusal to give up enhances executive powers, naive politics early on), at times good (Obamacare, his work to reestablish a measure of foreign confidence in America). But he'll be remembered positively for being the first black president. His work in office didn't screw up that legacy, IMO. That's about the best I can say.
(disclosure: was an Obama supporter in 2008, and quickly came to dislike the guy. IMO he's a terrible disappointment)
Insein
Footballguy
Seeing Obamacare as anything but a failure is a biased view. This is our Social Security except it was not needed and theres no way to float it nearly as long.
