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Would You Be In Favor Of Biden Issuing A Blanket Pardon To Trump On Day 1? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
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gianmarco
Footballguy
I don't think Biden is going to attempt to go after Trump.
He can certainly pardon any type of investigations into him from a federal level.
But in the end, he can't do anything about the state level and that's likely going to come.
So I'm not seeing what the purpose is here. Is there something now for him to be pardoned for? If there is in the future, sure. But I don't see how this is relevant with what's actually going on.
So I guess my question is, pardon him for what?
Joe Summer
Footballguy
I am generally not in favor of incentivizing crime. We shouldn't create an environment where politicians freely commit crimes against the country because they know that the next guy is going to pardon them. We also shouldn't create an environment where crimes against the country are covered up.
Yes, Ford pardoned Nixon — but only after Nixon's crimes were exposed to the public, and he was forced to resign.
Without similar treatment of Trump, I don't think a "blanket pardon" would be wise.
Yes, Ford pardoned Nixon — but only after Nixon's crimes were exposed to the public, and he was forced to resign.
Without similar treatment of Trump, I don't think a "blanket pardon" would be wise.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Voted Mostly not...Im for the justice system doing its job if needed.
I am for Biden not even touching it...can you even pardon someone who has not been charged with anything?
Anyway...Biden shouldn't touch it...should just move forward. Same with congressional democrats unless there is something big that pops up between now and then that cannot be ignored even by congressional republicans (like major national security stuff).
But no...I don't think a blanket pardon is the right way to go about things...
I am for Biden not even touching it...can you even pardon someone who has not been charged with anything?
Anyway...Biden shouldn't touch it...should just move forward. Same with congressional democrats unless there is something big that pops up between now and then that cannot be ignored even by congressional republicans (like major national security stuff).
But no...I don't think a blanket pardon is the right way to go about things...
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
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Boston
Footballguy
To piggy-back off of this...if the dems spend a lot of time and effort going after Trump and they do not have tangible results for the minority community in the next four years the ramifications could be staggering (i.e. you ignored us while chasing the white whale)...I know I will get blowback but I really don't think some on the left realize how much is at stake the next four years with regard to having concrete improvements with the inner-cities and the minority communities...for the first time in over 50 years I truly believe the electorate could change and if the dems continue to take these groups for granted it could really backfire...the last thing the dems need while they now have the oval office is more Adam Shiff going after Donald Trump.
Roy L Fewks
Footballguy
If Biden offers a pardon, Trump should reject it on principle. Accepting a pardon is like admitting you did something wrong.
I voted mostly not in favor. As I wrote in the other thread:
I do not want to see a blanket pardon, but it has nothing to do with a victory lap or gloating. I believe that when the people place an amount of public trust in those with positions of authority, it is paramount that those authorities not abuse their power. When those people do abuse their power, the punishment must be severe. For example, cops caught abusing their authority should be punished more severely than a regular citizen guilty of the same crime. If we ignore those who abuse their authority, it effectively teaches future people in those same positions that they can abuse that same authority without repercussion.
That said, as Maurile pointed out, should Trump admit to the crimes, I would listen to arguments for why he should be pardoned. But a blanket pardon with no admission of guilt? Doesn't solve anything and only encourages more bad behavior.
I do not want to see a blanket pardon, but it has nothing to do with a victory lap or gloating. I believe that when the people place an amount of public trust in those with positions of authority, it is paramount that those authorities not abuse their power. When those people do abuse their power, the punishment must be severe. For example, cops caught abusing their authority should be punished more severely than a regular citizen guilty of the same crime. If we ignore those who abuse their authority, it effectively teaches future people in those same positions that they can abuse that same authority without repercussion.
That said, as Maurile pointed out, should Trump admit to the crimes, I would listen to arguments for why he should be pardoned. But a blanket pardon with no admission of guilt? Doesn't solve anything and only encourages more bad behavior.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Marauder
Footballguy
On the fence. I remember I was initially against it when Ford pardoned Nixon but I eventually came around to it that it was the right thing to do for the good of the country but part of that was the fact that Nixon had resigned, which is in my mind an implicit admission of wrongdoing. I'd like to see a condition of the pardon to be some kind of public admission of wrongdoing by Trump. Of course, we're never going to get that. Pardoning him is probably the best thing to do politically for Biden and as an attempt to heal the country (although I don't think it will have much effect there) but it just feels wrong.
I also strongly disagree with moleculo's characterization of allowing the SDNY to do their jobs as "going after a political rival". That's very unfair to the career prosecutors to characterize it that way.
I also strongly disagree with moleculo's characterization of allowing the SDNY to do their jobs as "going after a political rival". That's very unfair to the career prosecutors to characterize it that way.
Boston
Footballguy
Yes, but you have to deliver your response in Olde English dressed up like Henry the 8th.
Foosball God
Foos
I'm not sure what blanket pardon is supposed to mean? Meaning he'll be pardoned for anything he did while in office? He'll be pardoned for anything he does out of office? Without knowing what, if anything, he might have done that seems like not a good idea.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
What would they go after him for? I completely agree with what you're saying but not sure what you're even expecting.
He's no longer in office, I don't care about his tax records or anything else he was abusing while in office. The threat is gone.
Let the states go after him for whatever crimes he committed before and/or potentially while in office.
But beyond that, what else would they keep chasing? Let him fade away into irrelevance.
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Boston
Footballguy
The funny part about theses elections is the media personalities who hate the winner benefit the most...I mean what are people like Colbert going to talk about now? The biggest winner with a Biden victory is Tucker Carlson...he will be the biggest media personality in the country and there won't be a close second.
Boston
Footballguy
No clue...not being snarky but that is a question for the others who are talking about this pardon thing...I could not agree with you more...let him ride off into the sunset but it does appear that will not be enough for some.
TheMagus
Footballguy
See here's the thing.... it's pretty likely SDNY has a pile to charge him with - at a minimum he was named as a co-conspirator in the indictment against Cohen.
I don't think Biden would have anything to do with SDNY bringing charges against Trump because he won't interfere with DOJ business.
However, it will be viewed as a political prosecution and led by the deep state and Biden (even though the charges will likely stem from the current DOJ under Trump).
Political prosecutions are really bad.
I just want to move on and never have to hear about any of this again.
Therefore, I would be supportive of the blanket pardon.
BUT... that basically sets a precedent for any future President or government officials being immune from legal consequences just because of their position. This is also really bad.
I voted "on the fence."
Lutherman2112
Footballguy
In President Trump's first term two House committees, two Senate Committees, the DOJ, the FBI, and a US Attorney investigated Hillary Clinton/Clinton Foundation and found nothing illegal.
Now, Republicans and conservatives believe Biden should issue a blanket pardon to Trump?
That takes some serious marbles.
Now, Republicans and conservatives believe Biden should issue a blanket pardon to Trump?
That takes some serious marbles.
Ted Stickles
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I don't think the Democrats in the Federal Government should be crawling up Trump's butt looking for something to string him out on.
That being said, I don't think they should come in on his side in the NY DA case.
I also think Trump would rather not take the pardon; as it is an admission of wrongdoing.
That being said, I don't think they should come in on his side in the NY DA case.
I also think Trump would rather not take the pardon; as it is an admission of wrongdoing.
matuski
Footballguy
Marauder
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
A pardon for what?
Also, I'm all for de-escalation and reconciliation. I just don't see it happening outside an external threat to the country.
Also, I'm all for de-escalation and reconciliation. I just don't see it happening outside an external threat to the country.
matuski
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
None of this is wrong. And influence from partisan hacks should not drive decision making. Otherwise those same unintended consequences exist that you mentioned wrt not litigating this encouraging future bad behavior from the executive
'In America, right matters.' So do what's right. Not what's convenient.
timschochet
Footballguy
Giving him a pardon sends a bad message IMO. But I wouldn’t go after him either. Leave it alone.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
..................... no.
Everything that fills in the dots is a violation of the rules.
Everything that fills in the dots is a violation of the rules.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I think our government should find ways to legally close a lot of the loopholes Trump has taken advantage of to his own benefit. Obviously the emoluments clause is completely toothless for example. That needs to be rectified. There are a few other areas like that to work on as well. Doing that would be applying lessons learned to improve our government from here on out. We can no longer assume the Presidency will be held by a mostly morally upright individual anymore.
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Marauder
Footballguy
Would you be in favor of Joe Biden instructing the SDNY prosecutors to not charge Trump even if they find clear evidence of crimes?
Personally, I don't believe the President should intervene with the Justice department either way.
Nugget
Footballguy
I'd consider crimes that Trump will admit to. Give him up until Jan 31st to confess to crimes, and I'll support a pardon. Nothing for things he won't confess to.
ETA - only political type crimes. He is still on the hook for any crimes against women.
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Don't Toews Me
Footballguy
@Maurile Tremblay and @Godsbrother made good points in the election thread.
I doubt we, as Americans of both liberal and conservative leanings, can agree on an answer to this question. Commonly shared answers to issues are becoming increasingly more rare. It is naive to think that a hot topic issue such as this will yield a common answer while common solutions fail to materialize to seemingly simple issues.
I see very valid points made by those who say "no" vs those who answer "yes" to this question. I'm also no lawyer, so I'm not sure of the legal ramifications Trump may or may not face at the federal or state level.........
But I do think we can agree that this country is in a precarious state with regards to the divisiveness. Both sides seem to be so opposite in the realities they're in. Both sides believe strongly in their opinions. Both sides believe they're right, but also that they're morally right.
I don't want to be overly dramatic (and if I am, please call me out for it), but I do think this needs to be strongly taken into account when answering this question. Context, as well as the very real and upsetting state we've allowed ourselves to descend into, needs to be faced objectively and heavily weighed.
I doubt we, as Americans of both liberal and conservative leanings, can agree on an answer to this question. Commonly shared answers to issues are becoming increasingly more rare. It is naive to think that a hot topic issue such as this will yield a common answer while common solutions fail to materialize to seemingly simple issues.
I see very valid points made by those who say "no" vs those who answer "yes" to this question. I'm also no lawyer, so I'm not sure of the legal ramifications Trump may or may not face at the federal or state level.........
But I do think we can agree that this country is in a precarious state with regards to the divisiveness. Both sides seem to be so opposite in the realities they're in. Both sides believe strongly in their opinions. Both sides believe they're right, but also that they're morally right.
I don't want to be overly dramatic (and if I am, please call me out for it), but I do think this needs to be strongly taken into account when answering this question. Context, as well as the very real and upsetting state we've allowed ourselves to descend into, needs to be faced objectively and heavily weighed.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
If anyone- Biden, trump, etc, is guilty of crimes, they should be prosecuted. Even the idea of this really angers me. We let too much stuff go for too long, and in hindsight we go “wow things sure were different then.” Prominent people in a small town who get away with things because “it would hurt the community too much.” Executives that sexually harass employees. Look at tv in the 80s, there’s a lot of stuff that wouldn’t air now (and there’s other stuff that has gotten worse.) Casual racism, sexism, locker room talk, catholic priests. If you don’t do something about it, precedent is set to ignore it again. Put all this or any other dirty laundry into the open and let us air it out.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
There is a pending tax evasion case that is over 10 years old - filed long before he discussed running for office - involving his claimed losses of over $900mil in the mid-90's associated with his bankrupt casinos. He used these losses to offset income from the Apprentice and other sources for years, and also claimed and received a refund of over $70mil. It now seems his tax positions were at best extremely aggressive and most likely are at minimum tax evasion, and possibly tax fraud. He has over $100mil in exposure with penalties and interest on the refund claim alone. The term "blanket pardon" would presumably apply to these claims. I don't think he should be pardoned for any tax-related crimes or liability.
Otis
Footballguy
I think it’s dangerous precedent. If he broke laws that has to be prosecuted (and we don’t even know at the moment the details of what we’d be pardoning). You can make an argument that it would be a nice gesture to mend the country, but at what cost.
bagger
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
for what?
this place is bizarro land
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Well that’s the thing with pardons, you can simply pardon them “for any crimes ever committed up to this point” or something, it doesn’t have to be anything you’ve been indicted for or even accused of.
for what?
this place is bizarro land
There was a time I thought it would heal our nation and help his supporters see and feel the unity offered. But seeing the President falsely claim wide spread voter fraud and saying the election was stolen I’ve changed my mind. Pardoning would not unify the nation any way. Trump supporters are going to claim they were cheated and so was a Trump.
moleculo
Footballguy
Well, this got a lot more comments than I expected lol.
Thinking on this a bit more, I would agree that a blanket pardon in theory would be beneficial with a president willing to put himself out to pasture -Nixon is the archetype. That's not Trump. We can almost guarantee he will make life hell for Biden for the next 4 years. That's not a good deal.
I'd propose a grand bargain were a pardon is offered in exchange for Trump keeping his head down...no rallies, etc. and that goes for his kids too. Obviously not going to happen.
Thinking on this a bit more, I would agree that a blanket pardon in theory would be beneficial with a president willing to put himself out to pasture -Nixon is the archetype. That's not Trump. We can almost guarantee he will make life hell for Biden for the next 4 years. That's not a good deal.
I'd propose a grand bargain were a pardon is offered in exchange for Trump keeping his head down...no rallies, etc. and that goes for his kids too. Obviously not going to happen.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I think it is going to be a moot question. Trump will pardon himself before he leaves office (the legality of which is a separate issue).
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