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Would you read into AJ Smith's quote here? (1 Viewer)

TitansFan10

Footballguy
(KFFL) San Diego Chargers general manager A.J. Smith said he does not expect restricted free-agent WR Vincent Jackson or OT Marcus McNeill to report for training camp and believes that they could sit out for a long time, reports Nick Canepa, of the San Diego Union-Tribune. "I think it's over with," Smith said. "I think they're going to be here for six games, and then they think they're going to be free."

Then they think they are going to be free.... Is that a threat? Can he keep them just to do it after this year if he wants to?

 
(KFFL) San Diego Chargers general manager A.J. Smith said he does not expect restricted free-agent WR Vincent Jackson or OT Marcus McNeill to report for training camp and believes that they could sit out for a long time, reports Nick Canepa, of the San Diego Union-Tribune. "I think it's over with," Smith said. "I think they're going to be here for six games, and then they think they're going to be free."Then they think they are going to be free.... Is that a threat? Can he keep them just to do it after this year if he wants to?
depends on the CBA really. Some kind of Franchise tag could be used on one of them.
 
There's some other rule that states they need to report by week 7 in order to get credit for the year. I just saw this in one of Joe's updates. Can someone elaborate?

 
AJ should speak in the third person more to further demonstrate his opinion.

"I don't know if our guys or their agents think A.J. will fold, but my history should tell you something," Smith said. "I won't be telling anything to these two guys; I have nothing to discuss."When A.J. goes third person, you know he means business.
 
There's some other rule that states they need to report by week 7 in order to get credit for the year. I just saw this in one of Joe's updates. Can someone elaborate?
A player needs to play for six games. The week 7 thing is for VJ cuz of his three game suspension. While he'll serve his three games during the first three of the season, SD retains the right to exempt him for three... so HE needs to report by week seven in case SD holds him out.
 
He is saying 'I'm an idiot for letting Shottenheimer go and I'm gonna make the same mistake with some players'

 
He is saying 'I'm an idiot for letting Shottenheimer go and I'm gonna make the same mistake with some players'
Marty's playoff record as Chargers head coach 0-2 Norvs playoff record as chargers head coach 3-3
Just getting back in from Vegas, stayed at the Rio. I was checking out the odds board to win the SB and I believe SD was 7 to 1. I scratched my head at how low I felt those odds were. Looking at those playoff records, what a bad bet it is to take San Diego at 7 to 1. The Saints are 8 to 1, Ravens 7 to 1, Vikings and Pack are 8 to 1 (I like both of those odds for them) Cowboys are 7 to 1, Jets 6 to 1 and Colts are 9/2.Out of all the teams under 10 to 1 (I may have missed one, going off memory) I think the worst bet there is SD.
 
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Smith said. "I think they're going to be here for six games, and then they think they're going to be free."
This sounds to me like the owners are planning to burn and pilliage the cba. Why does Tenn not want to give Chris Johnson a new contract but rework one year, the current year? Hmm...

I believe that not only will there be no football in 2011, but that the owners want to abolish free agency in its current form

 
He is saying 'I'm an idiot for letting Shottenheimer go and I'm gonna make the same mistake with some players'
Marty's playoff record as Chargers head coach 0-2 Norvs playoff record as chargers head coach 3-3
Just getting back in from Vegas, stayed at the Rio. I was checking out the odds board to win the SB and I believe SD was 7 to 1. I scratched my head at how low I felt those odds were. Looking at those playoff records, what a bad bet it is to take San Diego at 7 to 1. The Saints are 8 to 1, Ravens 7 to 1, Vikings and Pack are 8 to 1 (I like both of those odds for them) Cowboys are 7 to 1, Jets 6 to 1 and Colts are 9/2.Out of all the teams under 10 to 1 (I may have missed one, going off memory) I think the worst bet there is SD.
yeah remind me of how many playoff wins tony Romo has as a QB again?
 
Smith said. "I think they're going to be here for six games, and then they think they're going to be free."
This sounds to me like the owners are planning to burn and pilliage the cba. Why does Tenn not want to give Chris Johnson a new contract but rework one year, the current year? Hmm...

I believe that not only will there be no football in 2011, but that the owners want to abolish free agency in its current form
If the NFL had won it's lawsuit against that garment company(?) I think you'd see the owners try to implement a 'single entity' in the NFL. For all I know about law maybe they still do. Let's hope not. From a competitive standpoint and a fan's point of view the structure sucks.
 
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He is saying 'I'm an idiot for letting Shottenheimer go and I'm gonna make the same mistake with some players'
Marty's playoff record as Chargers head coach 0-2 Norvs playoff record as chargers head coach 3-3
Just getting back in from Vegas, stayed at the Rio. I was checking out the odds board to win the SB and I believe SD was 7 to 1. I scratched my head at how low I felt those odds were. Looking at those playoff records, what a bad bet it is to take San Diego at 7 to 1. The Saints are 8 to 1, Ravens 7 to 1, Vikings and Pack are 8 to 1 (I like both of those odds for them) Cowboys are 7 to 1, Jets 6 to 1 and Colts are 9/2.Out of all the teams under 10 to 1 (I may have missed one, going off memory) I think the worst bet there is SD.
yeah remind me of how many playoff wins tony Romo has as a QB again?
The same amount of Super Bowls as Phillips Rivers. That is almost as stupid as asking how many field goals did Phillip Rivers miss?Dont blame Romo for the playoff losses. He cant block or play defense. Just like you cant blame Rivers for Norv Turners inability to motivate his team in big games.
 
There's some other rule that states they need to report by week 7 in order to get credit for the year. I just saw this in one of Joe's updates. Can someone elaborate?
They need to be on full pay status for six games.The Chargers have the right to put them on the roster-exempt list, which means they have to sit out for three weeks without pay after reporting. So to be on full pay status for six games, they'd have to report by week 7.(VJ's suspension is irrelevant since apparently he can serve it during weeks 1–3 whether or not he signs or reports by then.)VJ doesn't really need another accrued season (he already has five), so it's possible that he'll sit out the whole year.On the other hand, under the current CBA, a player can't go from being a restricted free agent to being an unrestricted free agent by sitting out the whole year. If there is no new CBA next year (in which case the terms of the current one would govern in the absence of a strike or lockout), or if a new CBA also makes it impossible to go from RFA to UFA by sitting out, VJ and McNeill would have to sign by week 11 to become UFAs next season. (They wouldn't need an accrued season, so they wouldn't need six games; they'd just have to sign at some point this season, and the deadline to sign is the Tuesday following the tenth week of games.)Even if they do sign this season and become UFAs next season, the Chargers could use the Franchise Tag on one of them (if the new CBA includes a Franchise Tag, or if there is no new CBA).So AJ's hedge is correct — they can't automatically leave next season to play for another NFL team. Depending on how things play out, they will likely either be RFAs again (if they sit out the whole year), or they will be UFAs subject to possibly being franchise-tagged (if they sign in week 7 or week 10 of this year).
 
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Smith said. "I think they're going to be here for six games, and then they think they're going to be free."
This sounds to me like the owners are planning to burn and pilliage the cba. Why does Tenn not want to give Chris Johnson a new contract but rework one year, the current year? Hmm...I believe that not only will there be no football in 2011, but that the owners want to abolish free agency in its current form
If the NFL had won it's lawsuit against that garment company(?) I think you'd see the owners try to implement a 'single entity' in the NFL. For all I know about law maybe they still do. Let's hope not. From a competitive standpoint and a fan's point of view the structure sucks.
The owners may lock the players out for a year, but long-term, they need the players' union intact in order to continue having a draft, a salary cap, and restrictions on free agency. Without a players' union, all of those practices would violate antitrust laws.
 
On the other hand, under the current CBA, a player can't go from being a restricted free agent to being an unrestricted free agent by sitting out the whole year.
As we've discussed, you shouldn't be so definitive about that because no arbiter is ever going to agree with that interpretation of the CBA.
 
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Does a guy like AJ privately talk to VJ on the phone etc, or do you think he mentally cuts him off and has zero contact with him unless VJ wants to publicly give in? Seems to me like AJ being so rigid and hard nosed works a lot of the time, but in a situation like this with 2 guys affected he would want to TRY to fix this by continuing talks.

 
Does a guy like AJ privately talk to VJ on the phone etc, or do you think he mentally cuts him off and has zero contact with him unless VJ wants to publicly give in? Seems to me like AJ being so rigid and hard nosed works a lot of the time, but in a situation like this with 2 guys affected he would want to TRY to fix this by continuing talks.
AJs ego is huge. I think he wanted these two players to take the tender offer and nothing else. With the current CBA the way it is, Im wondering if the owner told AJ, one year deal only for these 2.Stinks as a chargers fan because they need both those guys to have a chance at the superbowl
 
He is saying 'I'm an idiot for letting Shottenheimer go and I'm gonna make the same mistake with some players'
Marty's playoff record as Chargers head coach 0-2 Norvs playoff record as chargers head coach 3-3
Just getting back in from Vegas, stayed at the Rio. I was checking out the odds board to win the SB and I believe SD was 7 to 1. I scratched my head at how low I felt those odds were. Looking at those playoff records, what a bad bet it is to take San Diego at 7 to 1. The Saints are 8 to 1, Ravens 7 to 1, Vikings and Pack are 8 to 1 (I like both of those odds for them) Cowboys are 7 to 1, Jets 6 to 1 and Colts are 9/2.

Out of all the teams under 10 to 1 (I may have missed one, going off memory) I think the worst bet there is SD.
yeah remind me of how many playoff wins tony Romo has as a QB again?
The same amount of Super Bowls as Phillips Rivers. That is almost as stupid as asking how many field goals did Phillip Rivers miss?Dont blame Romo for the playoff losses. He cant block or play defense. Just like you cant blame Rivers for Norv Turners inability to motivate his team in big games.
Well, we know there is at least

loss we can blame him for. Just setting the record straight :lmao: .
 
TitansFan10 said:
(KFFL) San Diego Chargers general manager A.J. Smith said he does not expect restricted free-agent WR Vincent Jackson or OT Marcus McNeill to report for training camp and believes that they could sit out for a long time, reports Nick Canepa, of the San Diego Union-Tribune. "I think it's over with," Smith said. "I think they're going to be here for six games, and then they think they're going to be free."Then they think they are going to be free.... Is that a threat? Can he keep them just to do it after this year if he wants to?
Considering that he used the word "think" three times and not a more definitive word shows that the situation has some grey area.
 
Does a guy like AJ privately talk to VJ on the phone etc, or do you think he mentally cuts him off and has zero contact with him unless VJ wants to publicly give in?
It would be improper, IMO, for AJ to speak to VJ personally since VJ is represented by an agent.If you're asking whether AJ has spoken to VJ's agent on the phone, I imagine he has.
 
He is saying 'I'm an idiot for letting Shottenheimer go and I'm gonna make the same mistake with some players'
Marty's playoff record as Chargers head coach 0-2 Norvs playoff record as chargers head coach 3-3
In no way has Norv been a coaching upgrade to Shottenheimer.
then why hasn't marty gotten another job... he had the best in the league for 2 years and the best player of the decade at one point and couldn't coach a W in the playoffs.Nov's teams look shaky in the regular season but always look good in the Playoffs
 
Does a guy like AJ privately talk to VJ on the phone etc, or do you think he mentally cuts him off and has zero contact with him unless VJ wants to publicly give in?
It would be improper, IMO, for AJ to speak to VJ personally since VJ is represented by an agent.If you're asking whether AJ has spoken to VJ's agent on the phone, I imagine he has.
Yeah, I guess what I mean is, although publicly he is taking a hard line on this, is he behind the scenes trying to work it out still with the agent or has he written it off and forgot about it (a true hard line approach).No one knows... If it was me, I'd say all the right stuff to be seen as tough and not backing down, but I'd be on the phone trying to work it out.As another poster said, there is no way to work it out since AJ won't talk multi-year deals... Which I think is stupid.Anyways, I just find it very interesting that not only is AJ tough to work with , he even gives the impression that he might make it hard on them next year too. I guess just to stick it to them...
 
then why hasn't marty gotten another job... he had the best in the league for 2 years and the best player of the decade at one point and couldn't coach a W in the playoffs.

Nov's teams look shaky in the regular season but always look good in the Playoffs
Always, about half of the time.
 
Yeah, I guess what I mean is, although publicly he is taking a hard line on this, is he behind the scenes trying to work it out still with the agent or has he written it off and forgot about it (a true hard line approach).No one knows... If it was me, I'd say all the right stuff to be seen as tough and not backing down, but I'd be on the phone trying to work it out.As another poster said, there is no way to work it out since AJ won't talk multi-year deals... Which I think is stupid.Anyways, I just find it very interesting that not only is AJ tough to work with , he even gives the impression that he might make it hard on them next year too. I guess just to stick it to them...
My thought is that the Belichick bland non statements & no comments are the best practice regarding players that are holding out, in trouble, etc. Make the coach and GM available to the media the least amount of time necessary and say nothing.
 
My question is this: since people with big egos also are typically paranoid about their own image, is AJ prone at any point to consider that if the Chargers tank without their star receiver and pro-bowl left tackle (bigger problem for them IMO), people will blame his stubbornness for a wasted season, with the possibility of that blame hanging for two seasons if there is a lockout?

I am really just learning about this guy so its an honest question. He's basically throwing a season away. There's no way this team makes any noise without their WR1 and star left tackle.

 
I am now a little curious what kind of thought process a forward thinking 1st round rookie and his agent might develope, knowing that they are in a situation where you absolutely know that AJ and ownership have zero give and all take with high value commodities.

Do you as an agent prepare to hold out your client in order to get a truckload of upfront money, and piles of escilator and perfomance bonuses???

Curious and curiouser

 
sholditch said:
My question is this: since people with big egos also are typically paranoid about their own image, is AJ prone at any point to consider that if the Chargers tank without their star receiver and pro-bowl left tackle (bigger problem for them IMO), people will blame his stubbornness for a wasted season, with the possibility of that blame hanging for two seasons if there is a lockout?
AJ Smith seems to care about his image less than anyone I can think of. He's going to try to do what's best for the Chargers without regard to what the fans think of him. That's something he says he learned from Marv Levy — if you try to run a team the way the fans think you should, you'll soon be sitting with them in the stands.
He's basically throwing a season away. There's no way this team makes any noise without their WR1 and star left tackle.
Losing VJ and McNeill this year will hurt a lot less than losing Jamal Williams did last year. The Chargers still went 13–3. It's not about one or two players. (Outside of maybe Philip Rivers.)
 
crnerblitz said:
I am now a little curious what kind of thought process a forward thinking 1st round rookie and his agent might develop, knowing that they are in a situation where you absolutely know that AJ and ownership have zero give and all take with high value commodities.Do you as an agent prepare to hold out your client in order to get a truckload of upfront money, and piles of escilator and performance bonuses???Curious and curiouser
This looks like it could be the last season without a rookie cap, but most every rookie that signs fits into some type of payroll slot. As soon as Bradford and some of the top 10 picks sign, then you should see others sign soon after. Remember that Crabtree was a serious dbag last season and by most accounts, SF has handled their front office business without any drama. Rob Base was right, it takes two.
 
sholditch said:
My question is this: since people with big egos also are typically paranoid about their own image, is AJ prone at any point to consider that if the Chargers tank without their star receiver and pro-bowl left tackle (bigger problem for them IMO), people will blame his stubbornness for a wasted season, with the possibility of that blame hanging for two seasons if there is a lockout?
AJ Smith seems to care about his image less than anyone I can think of. He's going to try to do what's best for the Chargers without regard to what the fans think of him. That's something he says he learned from Marv Levy — if you try to run a team the way the fans think you should, you'll soon be sitting with them in the stands.
He's basically throwing a season away. There's no way this team makes any noise without their WR1 and star left tackle.
Losing VJ and McNeill this year will hurt a lot less than losing Jamal Williams did last year. The Chargers still went 13–3. It's not about one or two players. (Outside of maybe Philip Rivers.)
By losing your starting left tackle means you will be losing at least some of your QBs and run game's effectiveness. The Chargers offense is what kept them in the hunt last year despite the defense. And it's not like they are getting Jamal Williams back. You're talking about taking the one really good player away from the o-line, at the most crucial position. AJ is probably right to think they can win without VJax, but I seriously doubt they go 13-3 losing that much talent on the line, especially when the unit was already underperforming.
 
sholditch said:
He's basically throwing a season away. There's no way this team makes any noise without their WR1 and star left tackle.
He may be counting on them showing up week 10. If they do, they're still very likely to make the playoffs, and once in the playoffs, anything is possible
 
crnerblitz said:
I am now a little curious what kind of thought process a forward thinking 1st round rookie and his agent might develope, knowing that they are in a situation where you absolutely know that AJ and ownership have zero give and all take with high value commodities.Do you as an agent prepare to hold out your client in order to get a truckload of upfront money, and piles of escilator and perfomance bonuses???Curious and curiouser
:shrug: Yes, I thought the same thing. I wouldn't sign till I was COMPLETELY satisfied. Knowing that AJ is a real jerk, makes me want to get ALL I can up front if I'm Matthews.
 
Good thing the Chargers decided to give a backup RB $13 million over the past two years. Wouldn't want them to sign impact players or anything like that.

 
Good thing the Chargers decided to give a backup RB $13 million over the past two years. Wouldn't want them to sign impact players or anything like that.
Yes, thats exactly the Chargers mode of operation. You nailed it. AJ spends like a drunken sailor.Moving past your straw man, I would ask people who follow the team closely; what kind of leverage might Mathews have, given that two players are most likely to be sitting out and will need offensive production from somewhere. Does this situation give Mathews more traction or any at all? I know rookies are slotted, but thats only the guarenteed money. Couldn't he hold out in an effort to get more up front and then load the back end with perfomance clauses and options. I'm just curious if anyone else thinks that the Chargers might be painting themselves in a corner here.What are fans projecting their record to be without McNeil, Jackson, and then without Mathews too?
 
Yes, thats exactly the Chargers mode of operation. You nailed it. AJ spends like a drunken sailor.
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that spending a bunch of money on your backup RB, while playing hardball with your emerging stud WR, is stupid. More stupid than spending like a drunken sailor.
 
Moving past your straw man, I would ask people who follow the team closely; what kind of leverage might Mathews have, given that two players are most likely to be sitting out and will need offensive production from somewhere.
His leverage is that he can sit out the season and re-enter the draft next year.He won't, though. I think it's pretty clear at this point that trying to bluff AJ by threatening to sit out the year isn't going to make him blink.

 
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Good thing the Chargers decided to give a backup RB $13 million over the past two years. Wouldn't want them to sign impact players or anything like that.
They knew LT was cooked at the time, and next to him Sproles did look like an impact player.
 
Good thing the Chargers decided to give a backup RB $13 million over the past two years. Wouldn't want them to sign impact players or anything like that.
They knew LT was cooked at the time, and next to him Sproles did look like an impact player.
If you told AJ Smith in 2008 that he was going to end up spending ~$13 million on Sproles in 2009 and 2010, Smith would have given Sproles a multi-year extension back then instead.Smith has made a few wrong decisions in hindsight. He probably should have kept Michael Turner instead of LaDainian Tomlinson. He probably shouldn't have given such big contract extensions to Luis Castillo or Jyles Tucker. And he probably should have extended Sproles a few years ago instead of trying to keep his options open. It's not always easy to know which players should or shouldn't be extended, though. A few years ago, most fans would have probably given big extensions to Cromartie and Merriman. Today, it looks like that would have been a mistake.
 
Good thing the Chargers decided to give a backup RB $13 million over the past two years. Wouldn't want them to sign impact players or anything like that.
They knew LT was cooked at the time, and next to him Sproles did look like an impact player.
If you told AJ Smith in 2008 that he was going to end up spending ~$13 million on Sproles in 2009 and 2010, Smith would have given Sproles a multi-year extension back then instead.Smith has made a few wrong decisions in hindsight. He probably should have kept Michael Turner instead of LaDainian Tomlinson. He probably shouldn't have given such big contract extensions to Luis Castillo or Jyles Tucker. And he probably should have extended Sproles a few years ago instead of trying to keep his options open. It's not always easy to know which players should or shouldn't be extended, though. A few years ago, most fans would have probably given big extensions to Cromartie and Merriman. Today, it looks like that would have been a mistake.
I think this can be said of every Gm. Some wish thats all you could accuse them of.
His leverage is that he can sit out the season and re-enter the draft next year.He won't, though.
Good read. Thanks. I guess your opinion is that he will be in camp on time? Or is it more of a no protracted holdout p.o.v?
 
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yeah remind me of how many playoff wins tony Romo has as a QB again?

The same amount of Super Bowls as Phillips Rivers. That is almost as stupid as asking how many field goals did Phillip Rivers miss?

pretty sure the cowboys won a playoff game in january. that would be one more playoff win than rivers has super bowls. unless i've completely lost my mind and the eagles beat the cowboys in the playoffs.

 
He is saying 'I'm an idiot for letting Shottenheimer go and I'm gonna make the same mistake with some players'
Marty's playoff record as Chargers head coach 0-2 Norvs playoff record as chargers head coach 3-3
In no way has Norv been a coaching upgrade to Shottenheimer.
They took over completely different situations so it's difficult to compare. In both cases the talking heads would consider them much better coaches if their PK had simply made very makable FG attempts. I'm a fan of both. IMO the team Norv is working with now is not nearly as talented the team Marty left, which is AJ Smith's fault but the "experts" often give Turner too much of the blame when anything goes wrong.
 
Smith has made a few wrong decisions in hindsight. He probably should have kept Michael Turner instead of LaDainian Tomlinson. He probably shouldn't have given such big contract extensions to Luis Castillo or Jyles Tucker. And he probably should have extended Sproles a few years ago instead of trying to keep his options open. It's not always easy to know which players should or shouldn't be extended, though. A few years ago, most fans would have probably given big extensions to Cromartie and Merriman. Today, it looks like that would have been a mistake.
I dunno, I'd still have been for extending Cromartie. I really think CB talent is something you can't have too much of and am afraid SD is going to find that out this season. We'll see if trading a young, dynamic play-maker to the Jets comes back to haunt them... I'm of the opinion that it will. The only reason extending Merriman would have been a mistake is because of the knee injury he sustained vs TEN.The big mistake was thinking he could have kept Tomlinson OR Turner. He could have franchised Turner at least once. He's now given an inferior Sproles the franchise tag twice and spent a 1st and TWO 2nd rounders(if you include the 2nd they traded to obtain Hester) in an effort to make up for that mistake.That was huge and if Rivers get's flattened and the season ends because they didn't simply draft/sign/trade for more depth at OL like they needed even before the McNeil holdout I think AJ should definitely lose his job.
 
As another poster said, there is no way to work it out since AJ won't talk multi-year deals...
Is there a link to this or is it simply online message board speculation?
I googled this for you.

http://www.mkrob.com/chargers-gm-a-j-smith...s-in-san-diego/

San Diego Chargers general manager A.J. Smith said the team is not willing to hand out long-term contracts to its players because of the uncertainty surrounding the collective bargaining agreement, reports Michael Silver, of Yahoo! Sports.

“Our position now with the labor unrest is we’re going to shut it down and take it slow,” Smith said. “We’re on hold right now. We’re not the lone ranger, but we’re on hold. It’s not forever. I don’t know when we will or when we won’t [start giving out contract extensions]. There is a long list of players in line for them. It’s the longest I’ve ever seen.”

 
I still don't see how a team wins by taking away their pro-bowl LT on an already below-average line and removing their best deep threat for the passing game. I still think both guys come back in camp and play this year. But if Smith goes all the way down this road things are going to SUCK for the Chargers. The passing game should be ok but I think people need to start seriously tempering their expectations for Mathews.

 

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