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WR Josh Gordon, KC (4 Viewers)

Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.

This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
THC concentrations are known to get funky due to all sorts of issues, including time, temperature, handling. I don't know how the NFL handles this, but the Department of Defense, for example, uses a big sample (e.g., 30ml) for bottle A and then usually half of that (15 ml) for bottle B. It's routine for there to be differences in THC concentration between the two samples, presumably, because time is a factor (often 10 days elapse before bottle A is tested positive and the request for bottle B to be tested is may), as well as the fact that temperature differences and shipping/handling all can create variance in the samples, especially a sample that's half the size of the original.

The bottom line for the DoD, NFL, and any organization who uses the split bottle protocol is that the bottle B is always used simply to confirm the presence of the specimen detected in bottle A. If bottle B shows nothing, then there is a significant problem. But, if it finds just a shred of evidence to confirm what was tested in bottle A, you're done.

All this fuss about sample differences is moot, irrelevant, and a waste of hope.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cant help but think Gordon receives 24 hour surveillance if he beats this. In any case, stuck by my WR4 through all of this so far. No turning back now!

 
Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.

This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
THC concentrations are known to get funky due to all sorts of issues, including time, temperature, handling. I don't know how the NFL handles this, but the Department of Defense, for example, uses a big sample (e.g., 30ml) for bottle A and then usually half of that (15 ml) for bottle B. It's routine for there to be differences in THC concentration between the two samples, presumably, because time is a factor (often 10 days elapse before bottle A is tested positive and the request for bottle B to be tested is may), as well as the fact that temperature differences and shipping/handling all can create variance in the samples, especially a sample that's half the size of the original.

The bottom line for the DoD, NFL, and any organization who uses the split bottle protocol is that the bottle B is always used simply to confirm the presence of the specimen detected in bottle A. If bottle B shows nothing, then there is a significant problem. But, if it finds just a shred of evidence to confirm what was tested in bottle A, you're done.

All this fuss about sample differences is moot, irrelevant, and a waste of hope.
Paragraph 1: I didn't know that! Why do the samples come in at different times?

I agree completely with "the bottom line..." and beyond.

edit - I guess the samples don't come in at different times, but you don't necessarily test B unless the request is made.

 
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Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
THC concentrations are known to get funky due to all sorts of issues, including time, temperature, handling. I don't know how the NFL handles this, but the Department of Defense, for example, uses a big sample (e.g., 30ml) for bottle A and then usually half of that (15 ml) for bottle B. It's routine for there to be differences in THC concentration between the two samples, presumably, because time is a factor (often 10 days elapse before bottle A is tested positive and the request for bottle B to be tested is may), as well as the fact that temperature differences and shipping/handling all can create variance in the samples, especially a sample that's half the size of the original.

The bottom line for the DoD, NFL, and any organization who uses the split bottle protocol is that the bottle B is always used simply to confirm the presence of the specimen detected in bottle A. If bottle B shows nothing, then there is a significant problem. But, if it finds just a shred of evidence to confirm what was tested in bottle A, you're done.

All this fuss about sample differences is moot, irrelevant, and a waste of hope.
You know what else is fickle: the law and the interpretation of it. This may even, in fact, go to court have an injunction and be handled in the middle of the season... Wouldn't this board love that?
 
Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
THC concentrations are known to get funky due to all sorts of issues, including time, temperature, handling. I don't know how the NFL handles this, but the Department of Defense, for example, uses a big sample (e.g., 30ml) for bottle A and then usually half of that (15 ml) for bottle B. It's routine for there to be differences in THC concentration between the two samples, presumably, because time is a factor (often 10 days elapse before bottle A is tested positive and the request for bottle B to be tested is may), as well as the fact that temperature differences and shipping/handling all can create variance in the samples, especially a sample that's half the size of the original.

The bottom line for the DoD, NFL, and any organization who uses the split bottle protocol is that the bottle B is always used simply to confirm the presence of the specimen detected in bottle A. If bottle B shows nothing, then there is a significant problem. But, if it finds just a shred of evidence to confirm what was tested in bottle A, you're done.

All this fuss about sample differences is moot, irrelevant, and a waste of hope.
Paragraph 1: I didn't know that! Why do the samples come in at different times?I agree completely with "the bottom line..." and beyond.
It's never as simple as the bottom line. Which is also the reason why this has dragged out for so long.
 
Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.

This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
You 'get it'.

Others don't seem to have a clue about what you are talking about. They appear fixated on THC being in both samples thinking that is all that matters. They have no idea about the many-many-many-many-many-many certifications that one operator or tech has to be up to date on for a sample to be considered relevant or how testing devices have to be calibrated daily or how often they fail or how test samples can be contaminated and called into question and that is before bringing up the NFL's completely arbitrary threshold that they made up which constitutes a 'positive' test.

NFL policy is not the law of the land.

If JG's defense team doesn't use the data defense and loses their appeal and if the NFL still attempts to suspend him then his lawyers can get a TRO and use Ohio code.

 
Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
THC concentrations are known to get funky due to all sorts of issues, including time, temperature, handling. I don't know how the NFL handles this, but the Department of Defense, for example, uses a big sample (e.g., 30ml) for bottle A and then usually half of that (15 ml) for bottle B. It's routine for there to be differences in THC concentration between the two samples, presumably, because time is a factor (often 10 days elapse before bottle A is tested positive and the request for bottle B to be tested is may), as well as the fact that temperature differences and shipping/handling all can create variance in the samples, especially a sample that's half the size of the original.

The bottom line for the DoD, NFL, and any organization who uses the split bottle protocol is that the bottle B is always used simply to confirm the presence of the specimen detected in bottle A. If bottle B shows nothing, then there is a significant problem. But, if it finds just a shred of evidence to confirm what was tested in bottle A, you're done.

All this fuss about sample differences is moot, irrelevant, and a waste of hope.
Paragraph 1: I didn't know that! Why do the samples come in at different times?I agree completely with "the bottom line..." and beyond.
It all comes down to timing of the tests. Urine samples have to go from subject to storage before it can go to lab. Bottle A gets sent for testing while bottle B remains in storage. If bottle A is negative, then bottle B is tossed. But, if bottle A is positive, then a request has to be sent in for bottle B. There is a chain of custody from storage to laboratory. Usually, bottle B is only a fraction (~50%) of the volume of bottle A. Often they want more piss in bottle A to be able to test for multiple substances and, if positive, at least they have something to work with in bottle B. But, that's why all this fuss about one sample showing a different number compared to the other is much ado about nothing. All bottle B has to do is confirm the presence of what was in bottle A.

For Gordon, done and done.

 
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Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
THC concentrations are known to get funky due to all sorts of issues, including time, temperature, handling. I don't know how the NFL handles this, but the Department of Defense, for example, uses a big sample (e.g., 30ml) for bottle A and then usually half of that (15 ml) for bottle B. It's routine for there to be differences in THC concentration between the two samples, presumably, because time is a factor (often 10 days elapse before bottle A is tested positive and the request for bottle B to be tested is may), as well as the fact that temperature differences and shipping/handling all can create variance in the samples, especially a sample that's half the size of the original.

The bottom line for the DoD, NFL, and any organization who uses the split bottle protocol is that the bottle B is always used simply to confirm the presence of the specimen detected in bottle A. If bottle B shows nothing, then there is a significant problem. But, if it finds just a shred of evidence to confirm what was tested in bottle A, you're done.

All this fuss about sample differences is moot, irrelevant, and a waste of hope.
Paragraph 1: I didn't know that! Why do the samples come in at different times?I agree completely with "the bottom line..." and beyond.
It's never as simple as the bottom line. Which is also the reason why this has dragged out for so long.
What PLC stated is dependable to me. Can it be made more complex? Sure. We really don't know why there has been a delay. Has there been a delay? Don't we know about this because the suspension was leaked? We usually just hear about suspensions post-appeal?

 
Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
You 'get it'. Others don't seem to have a clue about what you are talking about. They appear fixated on THC being in both samples thinking that is all that matters. They have no idea about the many-many-many-many-many-many certifications that one operator or tech has to be up to date on for a sample to be considered relevant or how testing devices have to be calibrated daily or how often they fail or how test samples can be contaminated and called into question and that is before bringing up the NFL's completely arbitrary threshold that they made up which constitutes a 'positive' test.

NFL policy is not the law of the land.

If JG's defense team doesn't use the data defense and loses their appeal and if the NFL still attempts to suspend him then his lawyers can get a TRO and use Ohio code.
I do hope you will be open to discussing all of this when It is announced that Gordon loses his appeal. I guarantee I'll be here if he somehow skates with less than a year suspension and fess that I was bloody wrong. Very hard for me to imagine that happening, but I pledge that I will, should that be the net outcome.

 
Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.

This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
You 'get it'.

Others don't seem to have a clue about what you are talking about. They appear fixated on THC being in both samples thinking that is all that matters. They have no idea about the many-many-many-many-many-many certifications that one operator or tech has to be up to date on for a sample to be considered relevant or how testing devices have to be calibrated daily or how often they fail or how test samples can be contaminated and called into question and that is before bringing up the NFL's completely arbitrary threshold that they made up which constitutes a 'positive' test.

NFL policy is not the law of the land.

If JG's defense team doesn't use the data defense and loses their appeal and if the NFL still attempts to suspend him then his lawyers can get a TRO and use Ohio code.
Seems like PLC understands what's going on. Regarding my post above where I said I'd hate for lawyers to start asking me whatever they can think of about my lab - I would absolutely hate it, but we don't make huge mistakes. I presume the testing lab didn't either.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
You 'get it'. Others don't seem to have a clue about what you are talking about. They appear fixated on THC being in both samples thinking that is all that matters. They have no idea about the many-many-many-many-many-many certifications that one operator or tech has to be up to date on for a sample to be considered relevant or how testing devices have to be calibrated daily or how often they fail or how test samples can be contaminated and called into question and that is before bringing up the NFL's completely arbitrary threshold that they made up which constitutes a 'positive' test.

NFL policy is not the law of the land.

If JG's defense team doesn't use the data defense and loses their appeal and if the NFL still attempts to suspend him then his lawyers can get a TRO and use Ohio code.
I do hope you will be open to discussing all of this when It is announced that Gordon loses his appeal. I guarantee I'll be here if he somehow skates with less than a year suspension and fess that I was bloody wrong. Very hard for me to imagine that happening, but I pledge that I will, should that be the net outcome.
Somehow I don't think it is hard for you to ever imagine that you are ever wrong but trust me I really don't care.
Not sure if you intended to employ a triple negative here, but the fact that you took the time to respond here suggests you do, in fact, care. Quite a lot, it seems, about this whole thing.
 
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Bracie Smathers said:
Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
You 'get it'. Others don't seem to have a clue about what you are talking about. They appear fixated on THC being in both samples thinking that is all that matters. They have no idea about the many-many-many-many-many-many certifications that one operator or tech has to be up to date on for a sample to be considered relevant or how testing devices have to be calibrated daily or how often they fail or how test samples can be contaminated and called into question and that is before bringing up the NFL's completely arbitrary threshold that they made up which constitutes a 'positive' test.

NFL policy is not the law of the land.

If JG's defense team doesn't use the data defense and loses their appeal and if the NFL still attempts to suspend him then his lawyers can get a TRO and use Ohio code.
I do hope you will be open to discussing all of this when It is announced that Gordon loses his appeal. I guarantee I'll be here if he somehow skates with less than a year suspension and fess that I was bloody wrong. Very hard for me to imagine that happening, but I pledge that I will, should that be the net outcome.
Somehow I don't think it is hard for you to ever imagine that you are ever wrong but trust me I really don't care.
Not sure if you intended to employ a triple negative here, but the fact that you took the time to respond here suggests you do, in fact, care. Quite a lot, it seems, about this whole thing.
just giving you cats a heads up...the powers that be are giving people who are un-cool to each other time outs...zero tolerance in this thread

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
You 'get it'. Others don't seem to have a clue about what you are talking about. They appear fixated on THC being in both samples thinking that is all that matters. They have no idea about the many-many-many-many-many-many certifications that one operator or tech has to be up to date on for a sample to be considered relevant or how testing devices have to be calibrated daily or how often they fail or how test samples can be contaminated and called into question and that is before bringing up the NFL's completely arbitrary threshold that they made up which constitutes a 'positive' test.

NFL policy is not the law of the land.

If JG's defense team doesn't use the data defense and loses their appeal and if the NFL still attempts to suspend him then his lawyers can get a TRO and use Ohio code.
I do hope you will be open to discussing all of this when It is announced that Gordon loses his appeal. I guarantee I'll be here if he somehow skates with less than a year suspension and fess that I was bloody wrong. Very hard for me to imagine that happening, but I pledge that I will, should that be the net outcome.
Somehow I don't think it is hard for you to ever imagine that you are ever wrong but trust me I really don't care.
Not sure if you intended to employ a triple negative here, but the fact that you took the time to respond here suggests you do, in fact, care. Quite a lot, it seems, about this whole thing.
just giving you cats a heads up...the powers that be are giving people who are un-cool to each other time outs...zero tolerance in this thread
I don't think either one of us are being uncool with each other at all. We have a difference in perspective, but neither is engaging in name calling or any of that.

 
Bracie Smathers,

Is it possible that you have some emotional investment in the outcome of this case? Disclosure: I have a little, because I'm an American and I like freedom. It seems like you might have some. I don't want to cast aspersions or anything though. I want to see Gordon win. I don't think it's going to happen. What do you think?

 
Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
THC concentrations are known to get funky due to all sorts of issues, including time, temperature, handling. I don't know how the NFL handles this, but the Department of Defense, for example, uses a big sample (e.g., 30ml) for bottle A and then usually half of that (15 ml) for bottle B. It's routine for there to be differences in THC concentration between the two samples, presumably, because time is a factor (often 10 days elapse before bottle A is tested positive and the request for bottle B to be tested is may), as well as the fact that temperature differences and shipping/handling all can create variance in the samples, especially a sample that's half the size of the original.

The bottom line for the DoD, NFL, and any organization who uses the split bottle protocol is that the bottle B is always used simply to confirm the presence of the specimen detected in bottle A. If bottle B shows nothing, then there is a significant problem. But, if it finds just a shred of evidence to confirm what was tested in bottle A, you're done.

All this fuss about sample differences is moot, irrelevant, and a waste of hope.
This is not exactly true. DOD has a confirmation threshold of 15 ng. It is not "a shred of evidence" as you suggest. This is where the NFL policy is offbase, it only requires any amount at all to be present. I understand it is a policy and it is collectively bargained, but an individual has a right to have an administrative hearing appealed by the court system. The NFL may be best served by settling this to avoid their policy being tested in the courts. Clearly, Gordon should have some incentive to settle the matter also. That is probably how this ends.
 
Bracie Smathers,

Is it possible that you have some emotional investment in the outcome of this case? Disclosure: I have a little, because I'm an American and I like freedom. It seems like you might have some. I don't want to cast aspersions or anything though. I want to see Gordon win. I don't think it's going to happen. What do you think?
He's obviously 'in the know' as far as how the legal system works, how Gordon's defense is likely to be presented and the likely outcomes. I think he's just being realistic based on the 'evidence' and all the potential holes that can be blown in it.

 
Yeah, I'd not only get the raw data (GC/MS data is pretty straightforward) but the lab is going to have to open up their books completely. Sample prep, lab performance records, service records (is everything recent?), carrier gas purity, lab employee professional/academic records (has anyone had any suggestion of being dishonest?). If this happened where I work, I'd ####. This would be way worse than an IRS audit.
Other people here don't seem to get this but it appears you do.This is something that the NFL muckity-mucks don't seem to get either and in fact I don't think Josh Gordon's defense team 'get it' either because this would be the easiest case in the world to defense if they just get the data.

Its like the movie the Untochables where the accountant kept saying, 'Hey we can take down Capone because under the tax code' and Elite Ness and the rest of the guys kept patting him on the head and giving him cookies till they finally 'got it'.

One sample, two results.

For anyone who understands the implications, game over.
You do understand that the samples from the same specimen can show different concentrations of THC when tested at different time points, right? I'll look it up, but I doubt the difference between bottle A and B were statistically significant (i.e., they were within the margin for error), especially considering bottle A was tested initially and then bottle B was tested.
Don't know how this lab works, but lots of GC/MS machines have a "robot" where several samples are loaded into a grid of tubes, then the method is run. For multiple reasons, if I were testing Josh Gordon's piss, I'd do it on the same "run". I don't think degradation due to time would be an issue. But I don't know how they run their lab, just giving you my pov.
THC concentrations are known to get funky due to all sorts of issues, including time, temperature, handling. I don't know how the NFL handles this, but the Department of Defense, for example, uses a big sample (e.g., 30ml) for bottle A and then usually half of that (15 ml) for bottle B. It's routine for there to be differences in THC concentration between the two samples, presumably, because time is a factor (often 10 days elapse before bottle A is tested positive and the request for bottle B to be tested is may), as well as the fact that temperature differences and shipping/handling all can create variance in the samples, especially a sample that's half the size of the original.

The bottom line for the DoD, NFL, and any organization who uses the split bottle protocol is that the bottle B is always used simply to confirm the presence of the specimen detected in bottle A. If bottle B shows nothing, then there is a significant problem. But, if it finds just a shred of evidence to confirm what was tested in bottle A, you're done.

All this fuss about sample differences is moot, irrelevant, and a waste of hope.
This is not exactly true. DOD has a confirmation threshold of 15 ng. It is not "a shred of evidence" as you suggest. This is where the NFL policy is offbase, it only requires any amount at all to be present. I understand it is a policy and it is collectively bargained, but an individual has a right to have an administrative hearing appealed by the court system. The NFL may be best served by settling this to avoid their policy being tested in the courts. Clearly, Gordon should have some incentive to settle the matter also. That is probably how this ends.
You are correct about the DoD, and the difference between bottle A and bottle be can be as much as 35 ng/ml (50 v. 15) and still be a punishable offense for a positive test according to the DoD policy. But, that isn't the policy under the NFL where any amount in bottle B confirms the presence of what is in bottle A (i.e., all that's needed is a "shred of evidence"). You say the NFL policy is off base. Perhaps it is. Maybe it isn't. But, the clear fact here is that it is policy. So, unless the NFL is interested in collectively bargaining with the union for policies only to voluntarily reverse course, I see no reason the NFL would be motivated to deviate from the script. Especially, given that every aspect of the CBA is negotiated with give-and-takes. The NFL won't just give this up just for nothing to the NFLPA for nothing in return. The Gordon legal team clearly has nothing to offer the NFL in this regard. Gordon's attorneys raising a stink about this bottle and that bottle won't make a hill of beans difference to the NFL. The policy is set, was agreed upon by the players, Gordon is a recidivist violator to the terms of the drug policy and will be punished accordingly, without the benefit of leniency or an olive branch.

 
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Bracie Smathers,

Is it possible that you have some emotional investment in the outcome of this case? Disclosure: I have a little, because I'm an American and I like freedom. It seems like you might have some. I don't want to cast aspersions or anything though. I want to see Gordon win. I don't think it's going to happen. What do you think?
Personally, I would like to see Gordon win because (a) I think pot should be decriminalized and the whole issue of punishing pot use seems silky to me and (b) I have personal stake in a good outcome for Gordon from a FF perspective. But, my personal beliefs and hopes have nothing to do with the assessment of where Gordon stands with respect to the NFL policy and his repeated violations. This is as open-shut as it gets, and it feels like all arguments to the contrary stem from pseudo-legal arguments that have no particular bearing on his specific appeal.

Plus, for the love of god, the guy is a complete fool to be in this position for the umpteenth time with so much at stake.

 
I can't add much to what already been said (most of it 5x over), but I'll give my thoughts on CBA vs legal wrangling. Just because two parties enter into an agreement on how to handle something, doesn't mean that agreement takes precedence over any legal rights either party may have.

My buddy and I can sign a contract in blood that states that if he dates my sister I get to shoot him. But if he dates my sister and I shoot him, I'm still going to jail.

More appropriately, a union could sign away some of their members' occupational safety rights in a contract with a company in exchange for better pay. But an individual union member could file a suit with the company over OSHA violations at any time and win. It happens all the time.

I don't know what Gordon's lawyers are really saying or planning to do, or if anything they are saying has real merit. But if there IS a legit legal argument, I don't think the CBA is going to mean a hill of beans.

 
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I gotta think any delay favors Gordon in this case.
I agree. At this point I can't imagine they went through all this to come out and say "yup, it was 16 games all along, confirmed." I'm guessing the ban gets dropped to 0 and they just carry it on to a rough punishment for the DWI or something. 8 games would be my guess. I really just have a strong feeling Josh Gordon is going to play this year. That is of course assuming he doesn't screw up between now and when he's eligible again..

 
Pertinent information from the previously linked but not copied article.

http://fieldandcourt.com/component/k2/item/246-what-to-expect-if-josh-gordon-loses-his-appeal.html.

Ohio’s Drug-Testing Laws Applied To Gordon’s Case

The strongest claim Gordon will argue is that under Ohio law (but using the NFL’s cutoff levels) he did not test positive for marijuana or, more accurately, THC metabolites.

As I’m sure you know by now, the NFL divides a player’s urine into two bottles: bottles “A” and “B.” If bottle “A” is positive for the THC metabolite, then bottle “B” is used to confirm what was in bottle "A."

According to Section I©(3)(e) of the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy, as long as bottle “B” contains the THC metabolite (at any level), then the sample is considered positive and the player is subject to the league’s discipline.

Ohio law differs.

Under Ohio law (Ohio Code 123:1-76-07), only “specimens which test negative on the initial test or negative on the confirmatory test shall be reported as negative.” If the NFL is bound by Ohio law, Gordon’s confirmatory test was negative. Hence, he did not test positive for marijuana as claimed by the NFL.

But the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy, as written, does not mirror Ohio law. More specifically, Section I©(3)(e) of the NFL policy states that "the "B" bottle Test need only show that the substance, revealed in the "A" bottle Test, is evident to the "limits of detection" to confirm the results of the "A" bottle Test."

Again, Ohio law says that both the initial drug test and the confirmation test must be positive. Or, as Ohio wrote its law, if either of the specimens are negative then the employer is obligated to report the result as negative.

The NFL will attempt to circumvent Ohio law by arguing only federal law applies to the Collective Bargaining Agreement and Substance Abuse Policy. This is a preemption doctrine that will effectively wipe out Gordon's state-law claims. The NFL attempted this argument against Kevin and Pat Williams in the StarCaps case and lost.

Federal courts have already found that the NFL is an employer of each NFL player and therefore is bound by the state laws where that player is employed. So Ohio courts should ultimately decide the case and Ohio law should control the outcome of the case.

And in Gordon’s case, once the confirmation test showed Gordon was under his employer’s threshold amount for marijuana, the test was “negative” under state law. The NFL found otherwise, contradicting state law.

The difference between the StarCaps case and Gordon’s case is critical.

The Williamses argued that Minnesota state law precluded the NFL from disciplining them for violations of the NFL’s Substance Abuse Policy. In other words, the Williamses were taking the position that Vikings players were only subject to discipline under state law, not the NFL.

That’s not Gordon’s claim.

Gordon isn’t asserting he is immune from the NFL’s discipline for violations of the policy. He’s arguing (or should be) there simply was no violation.

As shown above, Gordon’s drug test, carried out to its completion, did not meet the definition of “positive drug result,” under Ohio law. The secondary claim for Gordon would then be that the NFL’s drug-testing policy, as implemented, violates Ohio state law.

...Agreement Not To Sue

Salfino also asked about the agreement between the NFLPA and NFL not to sue each other. That agreement is contained in Article III, Section 2 of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

The agreement not to sue is an agreement about issues arising out of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, not the Substance Abuse Policy. In fact, Section 2 of the CBA lists the terms of the agreement that they won’t sue each other over—the Substance Abuse Policy is not listed.

What is mentioned, however, is that the players retain the right to enforce labor laws. And those laws are what Gordon will use to attack the NFL’s finding that his drug test was positive—or at least he should.

Because Gordon has such a solid case against the NFL based on the Ohio drug-testing laws, I believe his TRO will be granted and he will play in the 2014 season. This is all assuming he loses his appeal, which he shouldn't.
too bad their not using the state's law

 
I'm predicting Gordon gets off with 0 game suspension for the PEDs... Then posts a celebratory pic on Instagram with a bong in the background and a blunt in his hand

#winning

 
who would you protect over him? I have a similar decision between him and Andre Johnson.
we have 4 players and a rookie...so Ellington, Gerhart, Cobb, Gronk, AJ Green. We have relatively small rosters so if he's out for the year, it makes it very difficult to work around a dead roster spot all year. I'm debating dealing him for a couple mid round picks to a guy who's pick loaded. I would shoot myself though if it turned out that he ends up getting zero games.....The timing on this couldn't be worse.....

 
Pertinent information from the previously linked but not copied article.

http://fieldandcourt.com/component/k2/item/246-what-to-expect-if-josh-gordon-loses-his-appeal.html.

Ohio’s Drug-Testing Laws Applied To Gordon’s Case

The strongest claim Gordon will argue is that under Ohio law (but using the NFL’s cutoff levels) he did not test positive for marijuana or, more accurately, THC metabolites.

As I’m sure you know by now, the NFL divides a player’s urine into two bottles: bottles “A” and “B.” If bottle “A” is positive for the THC metabolite, then bottle “B” is used to confirm what was in bottle "A."

According to Section I©(3)(e) of the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy, as long as bottle “B” contains the THC metabolite (at any level), then the sample is considered positive and the player is subject to the league’s discipline.

Ohio law differs.

Under Ohio law (Ohio Code 123:1-76-07), only “specimens which test negative on the initial test or negative on the confirmatory test shall be reported as negative.” If the NFL is bound by Ohio law, Gordon’s confirmatory test was negative. Hence, he did not test positive for marijuana as claimed by the NFL.

But the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy, as written, does not mirror Ohio law. More specifically, Section I©(3)(e) of the NFL policy states that "the "B" bottle Test need only show that the substance, revealed in the "A" bottle Test, is evident to the "limits of detection" to confirm the results of the "A" bottle Test."

Again, Ohio law says that both the initial drug test and the confirmation test must be positive. Or, as Ohio wrote its law, if either of the specimens are negative then the employer is obligated to report the result as negative.

The NFL will attempt to circumvent Ohio law by arguing only federal law applies to the Collective Bargaining Agreement and Substance Abuse Policy. This is a preemption doctrine that will effectively wipe out Gordon's state-law claims. The NFL attempted this argument against Kevin and Pat Williams in the StarCaps case and lost.

Federal courts have already found that the NFL is an employer of each NFL player and therefore is bound by the state laws where that player is employed. So Ohio courts should ultimately decide the case and Ohio law should control the outcome of the case.

And in Gordon’s case, once the confirmation test showed Gordon was under his employer’s threshold amount for marijuana, the test was “negative” under state law. The NFL found otherwise, contradicting state law.

The difference between the StarCaps case and Gordon’s case is critical.

The Williamses argued that Minnesota state law precluded the NFL from disciplining them for violations of the NFL’s Substance Abuse Policy. In other words, the Williamses were taking the position that Vikings players were only subject to discipline under state law, not the NFL.

That’s not Gordon’s claim.

Gordon isn’t asserting he is immune from the NFL’s discipline for violations of the policy. He’s arguing (or should be) there simply was no violation.

As shown above, Gordon’s drug test, carried out to its completion, did not meet the definition of “positive drug result,” under Ohio law. The secondary claim for Gordon would then be that the NFL’s drug-testing policy, as implemented, violates Ohio state law.

...Agreement Not To Sue

Salfino also asked about the agreement between the NFLPA and NFL not to sue each other. That agreement is contained in Article III, Section 2 of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

The agreement not to sue is an agreement about issues arising out of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, not the Substance Abuse Policy. In fact, Section 2 of the CBA lists the terms of the agreement that they won’t sue each other over—the Substance Abuse Policy is not listed.

What is mentioned, however, is that the players retain the right to enforce labor laws. And those laws are what Gordon will use to attack the NFL’s finding that his drug test was positive—or at least he should.

Because Gordon has such a solid case against the NFL based on the Ohio drug-testing laws, I believe his TRO will be granted and he will play in the 2014 season. This is all assuming he loses his appeal, which he shouldn't.
too bad their not using the state's law
It was already ruled that the NFL would default to state law and not federal law in the Pat and Kevin Williams law suit. This has been posted multiple times. So, technically, yes the NFL could rule by federal law but then they may subject themselves to a lawsuit from Gordon where he will ask for an injuction to the suspension and has a high probability of it being in effect if all the details as presented are correct. This could drag out even longer and the O/U on this thread would be 5 million pages and 120 board suspensions.
 
I'm officially jumping on the 'Josh Gordon plays all 16 games this season' bandwagon. No shtick. Will I put my money where my mouth is and draft him early? Hell no.

 
I can't add much to what already been said (most of it 5x over), but I'll give my thoughts on CBA vs legal wrangling. Just because two parties enter into an agreement on how to handle something, doesn't mean that agreement takes precedence over any legal rights either party may have.

My buddy and I can sign a contract in blood that states that if he dates my sister I get to shoot him. But if he dates my sister and I shoot him, I'm still going to jail.

More appropriately, a union could sign away some of their members' occupational safety rights in a contract with a company in exchange for better pay. But an individual union member could file a suit with the company over OSHA violations at any time and win. It happens all the time.

I don't know what Gordon's lawyers are really saying or planning to do, or if anything they are saying has real merit. But if there IS a legit legal argument, I don't think the CBA is going to mean a hill of beans.
This is a far and away the best argument against everyone here saying "It's to late, the CBA has this agreement in place already. He failed his test and there's really nothing more to be said". But you're correct, Josh Gordon isn't a NFL Robot owned as property by the NFL or the Cleveland Browns. He's still a human being and resident of Ohio and is therefore entitled and bound by Ohio state laws. As you said, you could write up any number of contracts with anyone but if it breaks Ohio law it still breaks Ohio law.

And that same precedence works the other way around, Ohio has employment laws that protect employees of companies in the state. If say Walmart has a certain drug policy in place for their entire company, say if you fail a marijuana test you're fired. Doesn't matter if you hit a 1mcg (or whatever the real measurement is) or 50mcg, you're done as far as Walmart is concerned. That might be fine in some states, but if this happens to an employee in Colorado? Well no we have a problem on our hands because according to state law, it's legal. It'd be like firing someone because the manager saw them drinking a beer outside of work.

The simple fact is... the CBA is great and all, but this has already been covered. The NFL has to abide by state law for those teams in question. State law states that Josh Gordon tested negative for Marijuana usage, therefore he tested negative.

 
State law states that Josh Gordon tested negative for Marijuana usage, therefore he tested negative.
That's not necessarily true. State law says both tests have to be positive, but the NFL may be free to set the threshold for a "positive" B-sample test as low as it likes. I haven't see anything solid on this either way.

 
State law states that Josh Gordon tested negative for Marijuana usage, therefore he tested negative.
That's not necessarily true. State law says both tests have to be positive, but the NFL may be free to set the threshold for a "positive" B-sample test as low as it likes. I haven't see anything solid on this either way.
I don't think there is a state law that says that anyway. The code referenced in the article is part of the OAC (Ohio administrative code), and it is a section dealing with the Human Resources department. It looks to be Ohio's policy for drug testing of state employees. The Browns aren't owned by the state of Ohio, so that code wouldn't pertain to Josh Gordon.

 
I think the NFL likes to drop unpopular news when fewer people are watching, and preferably hidden by a bigger story, so I wouldn't expect to hear anything until late Friday or Saturday.
most of the suspensions have been announced on Fridays, yes?
Studies have statistical shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week.

 
State law states that Josh Gordon tested negative for Marijuana usage, therefore he tested negative.
That's not necessarily true. State law says both tests have to be positive, but the NFL may be free to set the threshold for a "positive" B-sample test as low as it likes. I haven't see anything solid on this either way.
I don't think there is a state law that says that anyway. The code referenced in the article is part of the OAC (Ohio administrative code), and it is a section dealing with the Human Resources department. It looks to be Ohio's policy for drug testing of state employees. The Browns aren't owned by the state of Ohio, so that code wouldn't pertain to Josh Gordon.
This is most certainly not just Ohio's policy for state employees. It's just Ohio's Administrative Code and the Human Resources section is from what I can gather just the area that sets state guidelines for employment in general.

 
State law states that Josh Gordon tested negative for Marijuana usage, therefore he tested negative.
That's not necessarily true. State law says both tests have to be positive, but the NFL may be free to set the threshold for a "positive" B-sample test as low as it likes. I haven't see anything solid on this either way.
I don't think there is a state law that says that anyway. The code referenced in the article is part of the OAC (Ohio administrative code), and it is a section dealing with the Human Resources department. It looks to be Ohio's policy for drug testing of state employees. The Browns aren't owned by the state of Ohio, so that code wouldn't pertain to Josh Gordon.
This is most certainly not just Ohio's policy for state employees. It's just Ohio's Administrative Code and the Human Resources section is from what I can gather just the area that sets state guidelines for employment in general.
The links that guy was providing came from a chapter entitled "Chapter 123:1-76 Drug-Free Workplace Program"

When you go to this link: http://das.ohio.gov/Divisions/HumanResources/HROperations/DrugFreeWorkPlace.aspx

You find this:

"The Drug-Free Workplace Services Program is in charge of planning, coordinating, and evaluating Ohio's Drug-Free Workplace Program, including state and federal testing programs, developed for state employees, and coordinating compliance with provisions of the federal Drug-Free Workplace Act of 1988, the Omnibus Transportation Employee Testing Act of 1991, any other federal and state laws, regulations, polices and collective bargaining agreements requiring substance abuse testing."

I am open to the idea that this is more broadly applicable, but no one has shown me any evidence that it is.

 
I think this is also relevant to the legal discussion:

http://www.aleretoxicology.com/dloads/StatebyStateLaw_Guide_89046.pdf

"Ohio has a voluntary drug testing law. For companies that wish to

qualify for a discount on their workers’ compensation premiums they
must comply with this law; other companies are not mandated to
comply"

So I guess the question is, did the Browns try and qualify for a discount? One time being cheap might pay off. But guessing not, since they already know that NFL testing doesn't meet the requirements of the state law.
 
Pertinent information from the previously linked but not copied article.

http://fieldandcourt.com/component/k2/item/246-what-to-expect-if-josh-gordon-loses-his-appeal.html.

Ohio’s Drug-Testing Laws Applied To Gordon’s Case

The strongest claim Gordon will argue is that under Ohio law (but using the NFL’s cutoff levels) he did not test positive for marijuana or, more accurately, THC metabolites.

As I’m sure you know by now, the NFL divides a player’s urine into two bottles: bottles “A” and “B.” If bottle “A” is positive for the THC metabolite, then bottle “B” is used to confirm what was in bottle "A."

According to Section I©(3)(e) of the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy, as long as bottle “B” contains the THC metabolite (at any level), then the sample is considered positive and the player is subject to the league’s discipline.

Ohio law differs.

Under Ohio law (Ohio Code 123:1-76-07), only “specimens which test negative on the initial test or negative on the confirmatory test shall be reported as negative.” If the NFL is bound by Ohio law, Gordon’s confirmatory test was negative. Hence, he did not test positive for marijuana as claimed by the NFL.

But the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy, as written, does not mirror Ohio law. More specifically, Section I©(3)(e) of the NFL policy states that "the "B" bottle Test need only show that the substance, revealed in the "A" bottle Test, is evident to the "limits of detection" to confirm the results of the "A" bottle Test."

Again, Ohio law says that both the initial drug test and the confirmation test must be positive. Or, as Ohio wrote its law, if either of the specimens are negative then the employer is obligated to report the result as negative.

The NFL will attempt to circumvent Ohio law by arguing only federal law applies to the Collective Bargaining Agreement and Substance Abuse Policy. This is a preemption doctrine that will effectively wipe out Gordon's state-law claims. The NFL attempted this argument against Kevin and Pat Williams in the StarCaps case and lost.

Federal courts have already found that the NFL is an employer of each NFL player and therefore is bound by the state laws where that player is employed. So Ohio courts should ultimately decide the case and Ohio law should control the outcome of the case.

And in Gordon’s case, once the confirmation test showed Gordon was under his employer’s threshold amount for marijuana, the test was “negative” under state law. The NFL found otherwise, contradicting state law.

The difference between the StarCaps case and Gordon’s case is critical.

The Williamses argued that Minnesota state law precluded the NFL from disciplining them for violations of the NFL’s Substance Abuse Policy. In other words, the Williamses were taking the position that Vikings players were only subject to discipline under state law, not the NFL.

That’s not Gordon’s claim.

Gordon isn’t asserting he is immune from the NFL’s discipline for violations of the policy. He’s arguing (or should be) there simply was no violation.

As shown above, Gordon’s drug test, carried out to its completion, did not meet the definition of “positive drug result,” under Ohio law. The secondary claim for Gordon would then be that the NFL’s drug-testing policy, as implemented, violates Ohio state law.

...Agreement Not To Sue

Salfino also asked about the agreement between the NFLPA and NFL not to sue each other. That agreement is contained in Article III, Section 2 of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

The agreement not to sue is an agreement about issues arising out of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, not the Substance Abuse Policy. In fact, Section 2 of the CBA lists the terms of the agreement that they won’t sue each other over—the Substance Abuse Policy is not listed.

What is mentioned, however, is that the players retain the right to enforce labor laws. And those laws are what Gordon will use to attack the NFL’s finding that his drug test was positive—or at least he should.

Because Gordon has such a solid case against the NFL based on the Ohio drug-testing laws, I believe his TRO will be granted and he will play in the 2014 season. This is all assuming he loses his appeal, which he shouldn't.
too bad their not using the state's law
It was already ruled that the NFL would default to state law and not federal law in the Pat and Kevin Williams law suit. This has been posted multiple times. So, technically, yes the NFL could rule by federal law but then they may subject themselves to a lawsuit from Gordon where he will ask for an injuction to the suspension and has a high probability of it being in effect if all the details as presented are correct. This could drag out even longer and the O/U on this thread would be 5 million pages and 120 board suspensions.
the Williams lost that case and was suspended

 
Pertinent information from the previously linked but not copied article.

http://fieldandcourt.com/component/k2/item/246-what-to-expect-if-josh-gordon-loses-his-appeal.html.

Ohios Drug-Testing Laws Applied To Gordons Case

The strongest claim Gordon will argue is that under Ohio law (but using the NFLs cutoff levels) he did not test positive for marijuana or, more accurately, THC metabolites.

As Im sure you know by now, the NFL divides a players urine into two bottles: bottles A and B. If bottle A is positive for the THC metabolite, then bottle B is used to confirm what was in bottle "A."

According to Section I©(3)(e) of the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy, as long as bottle B contains the THC metabolite (at any level), then the sample is considered positive and the player is subject to the leagues discipline.

Ohio law differs.

Under Ohio law (Ohio Code 123:1-76-07), only specimens which test negative on the initial test or negative on the confirmatory test shall be reported as negative. If the NFL is bound by Ohio law, Gordons confirmatory test was negative. Hence, he did not test positive for marijuana as claimed by the NFL.

But the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy, as written, does not mirror Ohio law. More specifically, Section I©(3)(e) of the NFL policy states that "the "B" bottle Test need only show that the substance, revealed in the "A" bottle Test, is evident to the "limits of detection" to confirm the results of the "A" bottle Test."

Again, Ohio law says that both the initial drug test and the confirmation test must be positive. Or, as Ohio wrote its law, if either of the specimens are negative then the employer is obligated to report the result as negative.

The NFL will attempt to circumvent Ohio law by arguing only federal law applies to the Collective Bargaining Agreement and Substance Abuse Policy. This is a preemption doctrine that will effectively wipe out Gordon's state-law claims. The NFL attempted this argument against Kevin and Pat Williams in the StarCaps case and lost.

Federal courts have already found that the NFL is an employer of each NFL player and therefore is bound by the state laws where that player is employed. So Ohio courts should ultimately decide the case and Ohio law should control the outcome of the case.

And in Gordons case, once the confirmation test showed Gordon was under his employers threshold amount for marijuana, the test was negative under state law. The NFL found otherwise, contradicting state law.

The difference between the StarCaps case and Gordons case is critical.

The Williamses argued that Minnesota state law precluded the NFL from disciplining them for violations of the NFLs Substance Abuse Policy. In other words, the Williamses were taking the position that Vikings players were only subject to discipline under state law, not the NFL.

Thats not Gordons claim.

Gordon isnt asserting he is immune from the NFLs discipline for violations of the policy. Hes arguing (or should be) there simply was no violation.

As shown above, Gordons drug test, carried out to its completion, did not meet the definition of positive drug result, under Ohio law. The secondary claim for Gordon would then be that the NFLs drug-testing policy, as implemented, violates Ohio state law.

...Agreement Not To Sue

Salfino also asked about the agreement between the NFLPA and NFL not to sue each other. That agreement is contained in Article III, Section 2 of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

The agreement not to sue is an agreement about issues arising out of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, not the Substance Abuse Policy. In fact, Section 2 of the CBA lists the terms of the agreement that they wont sue each other overthe Substance Abuse Policy is not listed.

What is mentioned, however, is that the players retain the right to enforce labor laws. And those laws are what Gordon will use to attack the NFLs finding that his drug test was positiveor at least he should.

Because Gordon has such a solid case against the NFL based on the Ohio drug-testing laws, I believe his TRO will be granted and he will play in the 2014 season. This is all assuming he loses his appeal, which he shouldn't.
too bad their not using the state's law
It was already ruled that the NFL would default to state law and not federal law in the Pat and Kevin Williams law suit. This has been posted multiple times. So, technically, yes the NFL could rule by federal law but then they may subject themselves to a lawsuit from Gordon where he will ask for an injuction to the suspension and has a high probability of it being in effect if all the details as presented are correct. This could drag out even longer and the O/U on this thread would be 5 million pages and 120 board suspensions.
the Williams lost that case and was suspended
true. but iirc they got to play a few more years while the lawsuit was in process.

which would be a win for Gordon and the Browns.

 
Pertinent information from the previously linked but not copied article.

http://fieldandcourt.com/component/k2/item/246-what-to-expect-if-josh-gordon-loses-his-appeal.html.

Ohio’s Drug-Testing Laws Applied To Gordon’s Case

The strongest claim Gordon will argue is that under Ohio law (but using the NFL’s cutoff levels) he did not test positive for marijuana or, more accurately, THC metabolites.

As I’m sure you know by now, the NFL divides a player’s urine into two bottles: bottles “A” and “B.” If bottle “A” is positive for the THC metabolite, then bottle “B” is used to confirm what was in bottle "A."

According to Section I©(3)(e) of the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy, as long as bottle “B” contains the THC metabolite (at any level), then the sample is considered positive and the player is subject to the league’s discipline.

Ohio law differs.

Under Ohio law (Ohio Code 123:1-76-07), only “specimens which test negative on the initial test or negative on the confirmatory test shall be reported as negative.” If the NFL is bound by Ohio law, Gordon’s confirmatory test was negative. Hence, he did not test positive for marijuana as claimed by the NFL.

But the NFL's Substance Abuse Policy, as written, does not mirror Ohio law. More specifically, Section I©(3)(e) of the NFL policy states that "the "B" bottle Test need only show that the substance, revealed in the "A" bottle Test, is evident to the "limits of detection" to confirm the results of the "A" bottle Test."

Again, Ohio law says that both the initial drug test and the confirmation test must be positive. Or, as Ohio wrote its law, if either of the specimens are negative then the employer is obligated to report the result as negative.

The NFL will attempt to circumvent Ohio law by arguing only federal law applies to the Collective Bargaining Agreement and Substance Abuse Policy. This is a preemption doctrine that will effectively wipe out Gordon's state-law claims. The NFL attempted this argument against Kevin and Pat Williams in the StarCaps case and lost.

Federal courts have already found that the NFL is an employer of each NFL player and therefore is bound by the state laws where that player is employed. So Ohio courts should ultimately decide the case and Ohio law should control the outcome of the case.

And in Gordon’s case, once the confirmation test showed Gordon was under his employer’s threshold amount for marijuana, the test was “negative” under state law. The NFL found otherwise, contradicting state law.

The difference between the StarCaps case and Gordon’s case is critical.

The Williamses argued that Minnesota state law precluded the NFL from disciplining them for violations of the NFL’s Substance Abuse Policy. In other words, the Williamses were taking the position that Vikings players were only subject to discipline under state law, not the NFL.

That’s not Gordon’s claim.

Gordon isn’t asserting he is immune from the NFL’s discipline for violations of the policy. He’s arguing (or should be) there simply was no violation.

As shown above, Gordon’s drug test, carried out to its completion, did not meet the definition of “positive drug result,” under Ohio law. The secondary claim for Gordon would then be that the NFL’s drug-testing policy, as implemented, violates Ohio state law.

...Agreement Not To Sue

Salfino also asked about the agreement between the NFLPA and NFL not to sue each other. That agreement is contained in Article III, Section 2 of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

The agreement not to sue is an agreement about issues arising out of the Collective Bargaining Agreement, not the Substance Abuse Policy. In fact, Section 2 of the CBA lists the terms of the agreement that they won’t sue each other over—the Substance Abuse Policy is not listed.

What is mentioned, however, is that the players retain the right to enforce labor laws. And those laws are what Gordon will use to attack the NFL’s finding that his drug test was positive—or at least he should.

Because Gordon has such a solid case against the NFL based on the Ohio drug-testing laws, I believe his TRO will be granted and he will play in the 2014 season. This is all assuming he loses his appeal, which he shouldn't.
too bad their not using the state's law
It was already ruled that the NFL would default to state law and not federal law in the Pat and Kevin Williams law suit. This has been posted multiple times. So, technically, yes the NFL could rule by federal law but then they may subject themselves to a lawsuit from Gordon where he will ask for an injuction to the suspension and has a high probability of it being in effect if all the details as presented are correct. This could drag out even longer and the O/U on this thread would be 5 million pages and 120 board suspensions.
the Williams lost that case and was suspended
Sure but also: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6443091

The case established that the NFL is bound by Minnesota laws on drug testing in the workplace, he said.
 

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