WR Josh Gordon, KC (2 Viewers)

[zftcg]

I don’t feel sad for him at all. He has had countless chances. After his second suspension he should have checked his mental health. Don’t mean to sound like an ###, but sounds like he is pulling a bit of a sympathy card. 

He did do that. Addiction is a disease, not a character flaw. If he had cancer and it came back, we wouldn't be saying, "He should have checked his physical health." 

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince anyone. If you want to be mad at him or chalk it up to him being an idiot, go ahead. Just as addiction is a tricky issue, people's reaction to addiction is also tricky (that's why organizations like Al-Anon exist alongside Alcoholics Anonymous). 

As for me, I just find it sad.

 

[shadyridr]

No kidding. Figures that after the Browns cut him he manages to stay clean.

lol this didn't age well

 

[jvdesigns2002]

He did do that. Addiction is a disease, not a character flaw. If he had cancer and it came back, we wouldn't be saying, "He should have checked his physical health." 

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince anyone. If you want to be mad at him or chalk it up to him being an idiot, go ahead. I just find it sad.

Addiction is a manageable disease that is choice and will power driven--cancer is not. Let's not make parallels among things that are completely different.  My sister nearly died due to drug abuse.   She still has addictive behavior.  You know what she did? She learned to change her addictions to things that are healthier.  She's addicted to church now, shes addicted to mentoring, she's addicted to working out.   She's been sober for 25 years.   Addiction is very hard to overcome-I don't discount that--but it is absolutely manageable for those of whom really want to overcome it and are willing to take the right steps to do it. 

 

[zftcg]

Addiction is a manageable disease that is choice and will power driven--cancer is not. Let's not make parallels among things that are completely different.  My sister nearly died due to drug abuse.   She still has addictive behavior.  You know what she did? She learned to change her addictions to things that are healthier.  She's addicted to church now, shes addicted to mentoring, she's addicted to working out.   She's been sober for 25 years.   Addiction is very hard to overcome-I don't discount that--but it is absolutely manageable for those of whom really want to overcome it and are willing to take the right steps to do it. 

I'm glad to hear your sister is doing better. And this is exactly why I edited my response above to emphasize that everyone will have different reactions to this issue, frequently informed by their own personal experiences. I was just sharing that my personal reaction to stories like Gordon's is to feel sadness.

 

[Ilov80s]

Addiction is a manageable disease that is choice and will power driven--cancer is not. Let's not make parallels among things that are completely different.  My sister nearly died due to drug abuse.   She still has addictive behavior.  You know what she did? She learned to change her addictions to things that are healthier.  She's addicted to church now, shes addicted to mentoring, she's addicted to working out.   She's been sober for 25 years.   Addiction is very hard to overcome-I don't discount that--but it is absolutely manageable for those of whom really want to overcome it and are willing to take the right steps to do it. 

Yes but there are also lifestyle choices that can impact whether someone gets cancer. It's best not to throw stones IMO. He has a problem and he seems to be trying to work it out but he obviously isn't all the way there. There is no reason to compare it to cancer or whatever. He seems to be trying.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Addiction is a manageable disease that is choice and will power driven--cancer is not. Let's not make parallels among things that are completely different.  My sister nearly died due to drug abuse.   She still has addictive behavior.  You know what she did? She learned to change her addictions to things that are healthier.  She's addicted to church now, shes addicted to mentoring, she's addicted to working out.   She's been sober for 25 years.   Addiction is very hard to overcome-I don't discount that--but it is absolutely manageable for those of whom really want to overcome it and are willing to take the right steps to do it. 

I'm not going to share my own indirect experiences with addiction, but not everyone is able to overcome things the way your sister did and it's not always due to a lack of will power or poor choices.  It's awesome that your sister did, but there are people who put in every bit is much effort and time as your sister did to finding ways to overcome addictions who don't have the same success, so it's not nearly as simple as saying addiction is a manageable disease that's choice and will-power driven. It's not nearly that simple no matter what success your sister had.

 

[SkippaDaFlippa]

Very sad indeed.

With the Martavis Bryant suspension last week and now this Josh Gordon news this week it has me thinking, who was the last NFL player that we can point to that actually successfully overcame addiction?

Has there been anybody after Chris Carter? That should speak volumes to just how powerful a disease this really is.

 

[zftcg]

Very sad indeed.

With the Martavis Bryant suspension last week and now this Josh Gordon news this week it has me thinking, who was the last NFL player that we can point to that actually successfully overcame addiction?

Has there been anybody after Chris Carter? That should speak volumes to just how powerful a disease this really is.

Favre? Truth is, there are probably tons of guys every year who we don't hear much about, but of the high profile cases like Gordon, Bryant, Blackmon, etc., there do seem to be a lot of relapses.

 

[squistion]

Michael Zingone‏ @FFzinger 52m52 minutes ago

Drugs are significantly harder to recover from than injuries. We've seen it with Justin Blackman, Martavtis Bryant, Josh Gordon. How many more examples do we need? Please don't take these players in the top rounds of your startup drafts no matter the talent

 

[Interseptopus]

Who didn't see this coming. Sucks to hear for him, as most people should have been cheering for him to overcome his disease, but given his history this was only a matter of time it seems. IMO it seems like he just needs to focus on himself and stop with the football part of his life. Otherwise he is undoubtedly doomed. I'm happy to hear he is realizing this

 

[whiskey7]

Michael Zingone‏ @FFzinger 52m52 minutes ago

Drugs are significantly harder to recover from than injuries. We've seen it with Justin Blackman, Martavtis Bryant, Josh Gordon. How many more examples do we need? Please don't take these players in the top rounds of your startup drafts no matter the talent

Sage advice

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I'm not going to share my own indirect experiences with addiction, but not everyone is able to overcome things the way your sister did and it's not always due to a lack of will power or poor choices.  It's awesome that your sister did, but there are people who put in every bit is much effort and time as your sister did to finding ways to overcome addictions who don't have the same success, so it's not nearly as simple as saying addiction is a manageable disease that's choice and will-power driven. It's not nearly that simple no matter what success your sister had.

Nobody is doomed to be an alcoholic or a drug addict.  My sister struggles every day to be sober. If she gets sick--she can't even take NyQuil as there are chemicals in it that can trigger tendencies in her.   I never said that overcoming addiction is easy--it 1000% is not.  However-- no drug addict or alcoholic is 1000% doomed to fail.  Some people that live very healthy lifestyles get cancer. They make the right choices--and yet are victims of a terrible disease that they had no power over.   That does not happen with alcoholism or drug abuse--unless your parents "forced" it on you as a small child.   Paralleling addiction with a disease like cancer is just wrong in my opinion.  We'll just agree to disagree. 

 

[simsarge]

So what's the fantasy spin on this? Dorsett?

 

[-OZ-]

Michael Zingone‏ @FFzinger 52m52 minutes ago

Drugs are significantly harder to recover from than injuries. We've seen it with Justin Blackman, Martavtis Bryant, Josh Gordon. How many more examples do we need? Please don't take these players in the top rounds of your startup drafts no matter the talent

I had been avoiding criminals, including those accused of domestic violence. But then some of those have done really well.  Obviously some do not. 

Off hand I don't remember too many drug users with the same level of success.

 

[dickey moe]

No kidding. Figures that after the Browns cut him he manages to stay clean.

LMAO

 

[GroveDiesel]

Well I think he just cost me another league title.

Fool me once...

 

[Bracie Smathers]

No kidding. Figures that after the Browns cut him he manages to stay clean.

He faked an injury with the Browns, said he couldn't practice due to injury and the first day he signs with the Pats he had a full practice.

The myth of the Patriots turning troubled players around isn't supported by continuing Josh Gordon soap opera.

He's got MH issues but he is a selfish person who uses his MH issues to do what he wants.

He has not been able to hide who and what he is, talented, troubled, and selfish.

 

[rockaction]

There's really no need for that. Some of us were hoping for him as a person, and still are. 

update 0/0/0

Get well Josh.  I hope you have a good life.

For the rest of you suckers that kept holding on and didn't cash out when the opportunities presented themselves.  Your value in that stock is now permanently zero.  Just like Josh's stats going forward.  No you don't get to enjoy the upside.  No you don't get to trade him for anything.  You get zero.  You were warned over and over and over, but you held out. "He has wr1 upside", "The patriot organization will give him the support he needs", "He hasn't had any issues in years".....blah blah blah.  You get ZERO

"He is a difference maker"...you were right on this one!!!  2.9 points in weeks 15 and 16 will make a big difference if you were lucky enough to make he playoffs....and here, I thought you all meant he would make a difference with high (no pun intended) scores.  Who new you were predicting this?

Hate to say I told you so...….no I don't.

Soulfly once again you were very wrong.  My guess is you have been proven very wrong for the final time in this thread.....At least I hope so

There's really no need for that. Some of us were hoping for him as a person, and still are. 

Best to you, my friend.  

 

[rockaction]

There should be no drug laws and people should be able to medicate themselves so long as they are non-violent. Okay, I said it.  

 

[squistion]

For the rest of you suckers that kept holding on and didn't cash out when the opportunities presented themselves.

What was the point of this, outside of insulting people who did hold him?

This type of comment was unnecessary and adds nothing to the discussion.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

So what's the fantasy spin on this? Dorsett?

My initial guess was Hogan--so that means that Dorsett and White are both guaranteed to go bonkers. 

 

[menobrown]

He faked an injury with the Browns, said he couldn't practice due to injury and the first day he signs with the Pats he had a full practice.

That hamstring bothered him for weeks after the trade.

 

[irish eyes]

Drugs are NOT a disease, and it's a slap in the face to people who have real debilitating diseases such as cancer. He chose to do it over and over and over. That's not a disease.

 

[Warhogs]

Fantasy football aside this is someone who appears to be having a big struggle with addiction and unfortunately it isn't all that uncommon outside of football. From a fantasy football perspective I'm finally ready to cut bait and move on. Hopefully he can some day he can beat this.

 

[rockaction]

Drugs are NOT a disease, and it's a slap in the face to people who have real debilitating diseases such as cancer. He chose to do it over and over and over. That's not a disease.

AA and NA want a word with you. They're more qualified, too.  

 

[ffmail4me]

So does Hogan become a strong flex play now? 

 

[irish eyes]

AA and NA want a word with you. They're more qualified, too.  

Oh what was I thinking. It's the society we live in, take no accountability and nothing is that persons fault.

 

[irish eyes]

So does Hogan become a strong flex play now? 

Dont do it. He sucked before Gordon got there. Trust me I owned him.

 

[simsarge]

So does Hogan become a strong flex play now? 

Thought he was already a starter tho. Patterson would be the one that earns a promotion right?

 

[menobrown]

I not only have him on 75% of my dynasty teams but I've managed to carry him for 5 years on an FFPC team, which requires cutdown to 14 position players in the offseason with a K and D. 

This would appear to be my breaking point.  The on field play was C+ level to me, I did think an entire offseason working with team and knowing the offense would help him rise his level of play but looks like we'll never know. 

This is the first time I can recall him relapsing in-season, maybe I"m forgetting something but first time I can recall him doing this while being an active playing member.

I ain't going to lie, I've not only invested in Gordon a lot in what I term the high platter of Gordon/Martavis. I don't think either will play in the NFL again.  And again this is coming from someone who has held him for 5 years on a team you can only keep 14 position players. This one is different then the other relapses, this one is the end one.

 

[rockaction]

Oh what was I thinking. It's the society we live in, take no accountability and nothing is that persons fault.

AA and NA heal more people's lives than you'd imagine. I also think football-wise, this was done a long time ago. He needs help. He was doing or smoking cocaine at twelve.That ship has sailed. I still think drugs and the CBA are up for debate. YMMV.    

 

[zftcg]

Nobody is doomed to be an alcoholic or a drug addict.  My sister struggles every day to be sober. If she gets sick--she can't even take NyQuil as there are chemicals in it that can trigger tendencies in her.   I never said that overcoming addiction is easy--it 1000% is not.  However-- no drug addict or alcoholic is 1000% doomed to fail.  Some people that live very healthy lifestyles get cancer. They make the right choices--and yet are victims of a terrible disease that they had no power over.   That does not happen with alcoholism or drug abuse--unless your parents "forced" it on you as a small child.   Paralleling addiction with a disease like cancer is just wrong in my opinion.  We'll just agree to disagree. 

In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have used the cancer analogy; I believe it's similar in some respects but not in others. 

The last thing I'll say on the subject is that none of us knows what is actually going on with Gordon. Maybe he's bipolar or has borderline personality disorder or one of a million other mental health issues that contribute to his addiction, or maybe he's "just" an addict. Maybe he's a "bad" or "weak" person or maybe he's fighting a losing battle with forces he can't control. I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt (which is not to excuse his behavior, just to say that I don't judge him as a person because of it). You are free to think differently (and really, in the end it doesn't matter what any of us think).

The one thing we can all presumably agree on is the hope that, whether inside of football or out of it, he can get his life together and stay clean going forward.

 

[treat88]

The older I get, the more more I appreciate the human element to things. It can drive us to do both the great and the awful. At the end of the day tho, we are all much more alike than different. We are all very human. 

Life is complicated. I hope Gordon gets healthy and enjoys his and can have a positive impact on those around him. 

 

[rockaction]

were you saying that the last several years when I was the one talking the insults?  

Quite because you were.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Addiction is very hard to overcome-I don't discount that--but it is absolutely manageable for those of whom really want to overcome it and are willing to take the right steps to do it. 

Also, poor people can get rich if they would just stop being so lazy.

 

[spider321]

Are we allowed to question the guy’s intelligence now, or are sunshine and roses still required?

 

[rockaction]

Are we allowed to question the guy’s intelligence now, or are sunshine and roses still required?

I think addiction understanding is required. I think if you don't have it, it's best to err on the side of caution.

 

[Concept Coop]

Drugs are NOT a disease, and it's a slap in the face to people who have real debilitating diseases such as cancer. He chose to do it over and over and over. That's not a disease.

I’m pretty sure the consensus among medical professionals is addiction is a disease. If a person is throwing their life away for a temporary high, I think it’s safe to call that addiction.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Also, poor people can get rich if they would just stop being so lazy.

Troll elsewhere.  If you have nothing to add into a discussion it's best to stay out of the discussion.  

 

[Workhorse]

The lack of compassion expressed by some here is pretty disgusting. I hope Gordon gets the help he needs.

 

[spider321]

I think addiction understanding is required. I think if you don't have it, it's best to err on the side of caution.

Still mandatory though reassignment.  Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

pull urself up by ur addiction bootstraps!!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

It's sad, Gordon had to be one of the most talented players in the NFL in the last decade, when he was on the field he was one of my favorites. Here's wishing him the best in his personal life.

 

[rockaction]

Still mandatory though reassignment.  Thanks for letting me know.

Can relate, I think, my friend. Just don't be so harsh on him. He's got his own demons. SID is right up above -- guy was most talented on a football field you'd ever see.  

 

[voiceofunreason]

There should be no drug laws and people should be able to medicate themselves so long as they are non-violent. Okay, I said it.  

I totally agree but he made the choice not to play football again.

 

[rockaction]

I totally agree but he made the choice not to play football again.

I totally agree that under the CBA he did. He literally chose to violate his terms. We're not arguing that. We're arguing how drug issues get codified into our society.  

 

[Concept Coop]

The lack of compassion expressed by some here is pretty disgusting. I hope Gordon gets the help he needs.

There is something comforting about believing we have ultimate control over who and what we are. If we grant that Gordon didn’t have that, it means it could happen to us - and that’s terrifying. 

 

[BobbyLayne]

Mike Greenberg‏Verified account @Espngreeny 3h3 hours ago

Josh Gordon is not a bad guy.

He’s a good guy with a very bad problem.

I wish him well as he continues to try to get healthy.

Whether he plays football again or not really isn’t what matters here.

 

[rockaction]

When a time bomb is ticking, do you stay with it, or run away as fast as possible?  Maybe hindsight will make it clear?

Maybe people want to cheer for a person? For real reasons? 

I know that's why I did.  

 

[Concept Coop]

Why is it so many on here talk about addiction as a disease to explain Josh's problem, but didn't make the connection to, I should trade Josh before the disease strikes again and his value goes to zero?

When a time bomb is ticking, do you stay with it, or run away as fast as possible?  Maybe hindsight will make it clear?

Many of us were saying exactly this. Who are you referring to, specifically