WR Josh Gordon, KC (11 Viewers)

[Soulfly3]

The player has 5 days to appeal from the time HE is notified.

Not the public. Him.

So there's only 2 scenarios here:

1) He has not officially been suspended yet

2) They are in the appeals process.

If Gordon DIDN'T APPEAL, then the league would have given him his suspension already, Gordon is CURRENTLY serving his suspension and it would be public.

you appeal because you've been given a punishment. yes or no? you dont appeal thin air.

 

[cstu]

Dawgs By Nature ‏@DawgsByNature 1h

PFT: Appeal hearing not yet scheduled for #Browns WR Josh Gordon http://sbn.to/1pGIApj

The Cleveland Browns are hoping to know the league's decision on WR Josh Gordon as soon as possible, but according to Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk, an appeal hearing has not even been scheduled yet.

Why is that bad news? In a worst-cast scenario, Gordon would be banned for a full year, effective from the date of the NFL's decision. Imagine if the decision comes right mid-way through training camp -- that means that valuable preparation time in 2014 would have been wasted on Gordon, and Gordon would miss nearly the entire offseason program in 2015 as well. The decision could even extend into the regular season, with the ban overlapping a span of two seasons.


This also could throw a dagger in some of the optimism that Browns fans had built up that "no news is good news" when it comes to Gordon's suspension. If an appeal hearing hasn't even been scheduled yet, then we can't draw any conclusions about how long the process is taking. We're at the league's mercy, it seems.

 

[Adam Harstad]

The only thing I am sure of is I cannot believe what Josh Gordon says or what his agent says, but I really want to see Gordon play this year, gotta find out if last year was a fluke or if he is indeed a top WR. With those monster games he had, it will be a shame if he doesn't play.

The whole time I was in Utah, I never ended up testing positive for any administrative test given by the administrative people there, Gordon said. It was just their choice to test me and just make sure I was staying clean.

i thought the reason he made himself legible for the supplemental draft was because of a positive test?

I was under the impression that that was just speculation, since Gordon denied any failed drug tests at Utah when he entered the league, but a quick google search turned up this old article at PFT where Gordon later admitted that he did, in fact, test positive at Utah.

So that gives us a positive test in October 2010, a positive test in July 2011 (getting him kicked off of one team), another positive test in 2011 (getting him kicked off of another team), a positive test either during or shortly after the 2012 season (getting him his suspension last year), and a positive test (or missed test, or other violation) either during or shortly after the 2013 season (to kick off this current suspension talk). That's at a bare minimum, that we know of- there could be other failed tests sprinkled in there somewhere, but we're up to 5 confirmed run-ins with the substance abuse policy since October 2010 (less than four years), which have gotten him kicked off of two teams and on the cusp of a potential year-long suspension for a third team.

Also, we know that after all of this, Josh Gordon was still speeding around town with a friend who was either smoking weed around Gordon, or who was carrying so much weed that a cop was able to smell it on him.

We can add all of that to the very short list of facts we know for sure.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Interesting note: if Gordon gets a full year's suspension, the clock starts ticking from the date it's handed down. So if the suspension gets handed down, say, in the middle of August... that means that Gordon wouldn't be able to resume activities with the Browns until midway through preseason next year.

Basically, the longer this goes, the more of next year's offseason activities Gordon will wind up missing if he gets a full year's suspension.

Adam, just curious, right now you have Josh Gordon ranked #35 for dynasty WRs, if he doesn't get suspended or only for say 4 games, what would you ranked Gordon at?

It's going to depend a lot on *WHY* he didn't get suspended. If he gets off on a technicality but the league still makes it clear that he's in stage 3 and will be subject to the full force of the substance abuse policy going forward, he's not going to be getting a huge bump. I just listed all of the run-ins he's had with substance abuse policies in the last four years, and the consequences thereof. I don't really want to be in a position where my season hinges on Josh Gordon staying clean for 12 months. As a WR3, that upside trumps the risk, but as a WR1 or WR2- someone who I'm ideally looking to start every week- I just wouldn't trust him.

Now, if the league comes out tomorrow and says that it's dropping the substance abuse policy because it's silly to actively test for marijuana, then Gordon would rank among my top tier of dynasty receivers. But as of right now, year-long suspension or no, Josh Gordon is in a precarious position where his continued performance in the NFL depends entirely on his ability to avoid all contact with marijuana, something he's shown a remarkably hard time of to this point.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I for one really enjoy soulfly & co. putting positive spins on every single report that comes out, while at the same time, dismissing everything as just being "reports."

 

[Bayhawks]

The player has 5 days to appeal from the time HE is notified.

Not the public. Him.

So there's only 2 scenarios here:

1) He has not officially been suspended yet

2) They are in the appeals process.

If Gordon DIDN'T APPEAL, then the league would have given him his suspension already, Gordon is CURRENTLY serving his suspension and it would be public.

you appeal because you've been given a punishment. yes or no? you dont appeal thin air.

You ignore everything that doesn't fit nicely with your argument/stance/ridiculous post, etc.

HE HAS NOT BEEN SUSPENDED YET!!!! I have posted that already. If he had been suspended by the NFL, we would know, because it would have been announced. All we know is that there was a "leak" saying that "HE WOULD BE SUSPENDED" for a failed/missed test. The leak wasn't from the NFL, and he hadn't been suspended at the time, and still hasn't been suspended yet. All we know (from the leaks) is that he received two letters saying that he failed a test, that he was facing a suspension, and that he would have the right to appeal.

So, once again, you're building your "argument" on the flimsiest of a foundation, and ignoring anything that might weaken that argument.

Yes a player has 5 days to appeal, and Gordon hasn't done so, but he hasn't been suspended, so that 5 day argument doesn't hold any water. Yet you cling to it like it's some kind of irrefutable proof that Gordon is only going to get a slap on the wrist.

I hope Gordon gets little to no suspension; it's better for my fantasy team, but that doesn't mean all the made-up, wishful hypothetical scenarios that you come up with are "news" at all.

I honestly think you are throwing as much s@!t on the wall in this thread as possible, so that after it's over, you can come back and say "see, I was right!" (Just ignore the other 391 ridiculous things I posted that were ridiculous wrong).

 

[amnesiac]

also they may have appealed, but the date of the hearing was pushed back, possibly even due to Gordon's council's request.

we are really in the dark on this whole thing until there's an announcement.

 

[Bamac]

also they may have appealed, but the date of the hearing was pushed back, possibly even due to Gordon's council's request.

Most likely scenario in my mind. Gordon may only have five days to appeal, but that doesn't mean there has to be a hearing in five days. Plus, in the criminal context, at least, it's quite common for both sides to agree to extend the deadline for a hearing.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Dawg Pound Nation ‏@DawgPoundNews 11h

Per a #Browns team source, Gordon is in Stage 3 and facing an automatic season ban. So much for wishful thinking.

These guys have been early on several draft and coaching related news items. They definitely have a team source.

 

[amnesiac]

Dawg Pound Nation ‏@DawgPoundNews 11h

Per a #Browns team source, Gordon is in Stage 3 and facing an automatic season ban. So much for wishful thinking.

These guys have been early on several draft and coaching related news items. They definitely have a team source.

any guesses on when an announcement will come?

 

[Bronco Billy]

Dawg Pound Nation ‏@DawgPoundNews 11h

Per a #Browns team source, Gordon is in Stage 3 and facing an automatic season ban. So much for wishful thinking.

These guys have been early on several draft and coaching related news items. They definitely have a team source.

So much for this being the best thread evah.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The only thing I am sure of is I cannot believe what Josh Gordon says or what his agent says, but I really want to see Gordon play this year, gotta find out if last year was a fluke or if he is indeed a top WR. With those monster games he had, it will be a shame if he doesn't play.

The whole time I was in Utah, I never ended up testing positive for any administrative test given by the administrative people there, Gordon said. It was just their choice to test me and just make sure I was staying clean.

i thought the reason he made himself legible for the supplemental draft was because of a positive test?

I was under the impression that that was just speculation, since Gordon denied any failed drug tests at Utah when he entered the league, but a quick google search turned up this old article at PFT where Gordon later admitted that he did, in fact, test positive at Utah.

So that gives us a positive test in October 2010, a positive test in July 2011 (getting him kicked off of one team), another positive test in 2011 (getting him kicked off of another team), a positive test either during or shortly after the 2012 season (getting him his suspension last year), and a positive test (or missed test, or other violation) either during or shortly after the 2013 season (to kick off this current suspension talk). That's at a bare minimum, that we know of- there could be other failed tests sprinkled in there somewhere, but we're up to 5 confirmed run-ins with the substance abuse policy since October 2010 (less than four years), which have gotten him kicked off of two teams and on the cusp of a potential year-long suspension for a third team.

Also, we know that after all of this, Josh Gordon was still speeding around town with a friend who was either smoking weed around Gordon, or who was carrying so much weed that a cop was able to smell it on him.

We can add all of that to the very short list of facts we know for sure.

You can add at least one and possibly two more there. You don't get suspended for your first positive test in the NFL, and you might not get suspended for your second.

Typically the first gets you on the NFL's radar (stage one), and the second (first failure in stage two) comes with a fine, but not a suspension unless the player didn't successfully complete stage one.

So we're talking six or seven confirmed test failures, plus the giant weed tattoo and the traffic stop. I'm gobsmacked at what people have been able to offload this guy for.

 

[False Start]

Dawg Pound Nation ‏@DawgPoundNews 11h

Per a #Browns team source, Gordon is in Stage 3 and facing an automatic season ban. So much for wishful thinking.

These guys have been early on several draft and coaching related news items. They definitely have a team source.

So much for this being the best thread evah.

Team source confirming he is in stage three is a huge blow since there was some concern if he was in stage three.

That's going to deflate some optimism in this thread, but then again maybe not, as if Gordon was smoking in front of some they would still vouch for him on not getting suspended.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Dawg Pound Nation ‏@DawgPoundNews 11h

Per a #Browns team source, Gordon is in Stage 3 and facing an automatic season ban. So much for wishful thinking.

These guys have been early on several draft and coaching related news items. They definitely have a team source.

So much for this being the best thread evah.

Team source confirming he is in stage three is a huge blow since there was some concern if he was in stage three.

That's going to deflate some optimism in this thread, but then again maybe not, as if Gordon was smoking in front of some they would still vouch for him on not getting suspended.

how do we know it's really Gordon and not some guy that looks just like him?

 

[False Start]

Dawg Pound Nation ‏@DawgPoundNews 11h

Per a #Browns team source, Gordon is in Stage 3 and facing an automatic season ban. So much for wishful thinking.

These guys have been early on several draft and coaching related news items. They definitely have a team source.

So much for this being the best thread evah.

Team source confirming he is in stage three is a huge blow since there was some concern if he was in stage three.

That's going to deflate some optimism in this thread, but then again maybe not, as if Gordon was smoking in front of some they would still vouch for him on not getting suspended.

how do we know it's really Gordon and not some guy that looks just like him?

He says "Hi, I'm Josh Gordon, I play WR for the Cleveland Browns and I wear #12, may I have a hit of that blunt?"

 

[Soulfly3]

So,

In the same night an unnamed source gives a report to Florio stating the league has yet to suspend him, and no appeal date has been filed.

And another unnamed source states he's in Stage 3 to Dawg Pound Nation.

So Slanderous.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Dawg Pound Nation ‏@DawgPoundNews 11h

Per a #Browns team source, Gordon is in Stage 3 and facing an automatic season ban. So much for wishful thinking.

These guys have been early on several draft and coaching related news items. They definitely have a team source.

So much for this being the best thread evah.

Team source confirming he is in stage three is a huge blow since there was some concern if he was in stage three.

That's going to deflate some optimism in this thread, but then again maybe not, as if Gordon was smoking in front of some they would still vouch for him on not getting suspended.

how do we know it's really Gordon and not some guy that looks just like him?

He says "Hi, I'm Josh Gordon, I play WR for the Cleveland Browns and I wear #12, may I have a hit of that blunt?"

he was probably not inhaling and just wanted to look cool.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

So,

In the same night an unnamed source gives a report to Florio stating the league has yet to suspend him, and no appeal date has been filed.

And another unnamed source states he's in Stage 3 to Dawg Pound Nation.

So Slanderous.

Everyone knows the best defense to a defamation suit is....

 

[Soulfly3]

So,

In the same night an unnamed source gives a report to Florio stating the league has yet to suspend him, and no appeal date has been filed.

And another unnamed source states he's in Stage 3 to Dawg Pound Nation.

So Slanderous.

Everyone knows the best defense to a defamation suit is....

Everyone knows when you use an "unnamed source" it's likely BS.

At least if it's someone credible, I could give it 5% thought. Unnamed? Might as well be Bayhawks breaking the news to me.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

So,

In the same night an unnamed source gives a report to Florio stating the league has yet to suspend him, and no appeal date has been filed.

And another unnamed source states he's in Stage 3 to Dawg Pound Nation.

So Slanderous.

I didn't see the bold in Florio's report, only that no appeal date was set. Even so the Florio and DPN tweets do not contradict one another.

 

[Soulfly3]

You ignore everything that doesn't fit nicely with your argument/stance/ridiculous post, etc.

HE HAS NOT BEEN SUSPENDED YET!!!! I have posted that already. If he had been suspended by the NFL, we would know, because it would have been announced.

So, once again, you're building your "argument" on the flimsiest of a foundation, and ignoring anything that might weaken that argument.

So,

In the same night an unnamed source gives a report to Florio stating the league has yet to suspend him, and no appeal date has been filed.

And another unnamed source states he's in Stage 3 to Dawg Pound Nation.

So Slanderous.

I didn't see the bold in Florio's report, only that no appeal date was set. Even so the Florio and DPN tweets do not contradict one another.

It's been mentioned by more than one member that I dont agree with anything that apparently contradicts my stance.

My stance which has never changed.

But Bayhawks is adamant he has not been suspended yet. So I'll go with that.

 

[False Start]

You ignore everything that doesn't fit nicely with your argument/stance/ridiculous post, etc.

HE HAS NOT BEEN SUSPENDED YET!!!! I have posted that already. If he had been suspended by the NFL, we would know, because it would have been announced.

So, once again, you're building your "argument" on the flimsiest of a foundation, and ignoring anything that might weaken that argument.

So,

In the same night an unnamed source gives a report to Florio stating the league has yet to suspend him, and no appeal date has been filed.

And another unnamed source states he's in Stage 3 to Dawg Pound Nation.

So Slanderous.

I didn't see the bold in Florio's report, only that no appeal date was set. Even so the Florio and DPN tweets do not contradict one another.

It's been mentioned by more than one member that I dont agree with anything that apparently contradicts my stance.

My stance which has never changed.

But Bayhawks is adamant he has not been suspended yet. So I'll go with that.

So you will believe the unnamed source that supports your claim, but not the one who contradicts it? Interesting.

 

[Soulfly3]

So you will believe the unnamed source that supports your claim, but not the one who contradicts it? Interesting.

ESPN Cleveland is an unnamed source?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

So did he violate the drug policy by using drugs or did he just miss a drug test ?

No one knows but former Browns WR Greg Little hints that it could have been a missed drug test that was out of Gordon's control.

Cleveland Browns wide receiver Josh Gordon is facing a lengthy NFL suspension for violating the league's substance-abuse policy, but the circumstances surrounding the matter remain cloudy.

ESPN reported earlier this month that Gordon was headed for a year-long ban after failing a drug test for marijuana. FOX Sports 1 NFL insider Mike Garafolo reported that Gordon hopes to have the suspension reduced to four to six games upon appeal.

Neither the Browns nor Gordon's camp have provided details on what exactly happened. But new Oakland Raiders wide receiver Greg Little -- who is one of Gordon's close friends and a Browns teammates until being waived last week -- indicated Thursday night that the suspension may not stem from something as simple as a positive urine sample.

"He's a guy that's going to work to get back and show this is a mistake," Little told co-host Bill Polian and me about Gordon on SiriusXM NFL Radio. "It's something that wasn't in his control, so to speak. I don't want to get into too much detail about it."

Although Little wouldn't elaborate further, one possibility is that Gordon missed a random NFL drug test that he was subject to taking. A missed test would automatically be considered a positive under the league's substance-abuse policy.

 

[massraider]

So,

In the same night an unnamed source gives a report to Florio stating the league has yet to suspend him, and no appeal date has been filed.

And another unnamed source states he's in Stage 3 to Dawg Pound Nation.

So Slanderous.

Everyone knows the best defense to a defamation suit is....

Everyone knows when you use an "unnamed source" it's likely BS.

At least if it's someone credible, I could give it 5% thought. Unnamed? Might as well be Bayhawks breaking the news to me.

Oh, come on.

Unnamed sources provide accurate stuff Every. Single. Day.

Or is is the fact that the playa-hating, obviously biased Dawg Pound Nation ‏@DawgPoundNews has some sort of axe to grind?

 

[Soulfly3]

The newest rumor is he was on a flight back from Europe and missed the test by a few hours.

He took the test that same day (though hours after the deadline) and passed.

Do I believe this story? Probably 99% no. But that's what's running now, and sure... I guess that could happen.

 

[False Start]

So did he violate the drug policy by using drugs or did he just miss a drug test ?

No one knows but former Browns WR Greg Little hints that it could have been a missed drug test that was out of Gordon's control.

Cleveland Browns wide receiver Josh Gordon is facing a lengthy NFL suspension for violating the league's substance-abuse policy, but the circumstances surrounding the matter remain cloudy.

ESPN reported earlier this month that Gordon was headed for a year-long ban after failing a drug test for marijuana. FOX Sports 1 NFL insider Mike Garafolo reported that Gordon hopes to have the suspension reduced to four to six games upon appeal.

Neither the Browns nor Gordon's camp have provided details on what exactly happened. But new Oakland Raiders wide receiver Greg Little -- who is one of Gordon's close friends and a Browns teammates until being waived last week -- indicated Thursday night that the suspension may not stem from something as simple as a positive urine sample.

"He's a guy that's going to work to get back and show this is a mistake," Little told co-host Bill Polian and me about Gordon on SiriusXM NFL Radio. "It's something that wasn't in his control, so to speak. I don't want to get into too much detail about it."

Although Little wouldn't elaborate further, one possibility is that Gordon missed a random NFL drug test that he was subject to taking. A missed test would automatically be considered a positive under the league's substance-abuse policy.

The bolded is all that matters, Littles opinion does not.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

People need to stop bringing up Will Hill's PEDs, Blackmon's arrests, Daryl Washington's altercation and even Gordon's speeding violation (with friend's marijuana) as evidence of anything. These do not fall under the Substance Abuse policy and do not affect the suspension under the Substance Abuse policy. The NFL does not mix its suspensions under various policies, and they do not build upon each other either.

Daryl Washington was suspended indefinitely because of failed drug tests, not because of failed drug tests plus his altercation. Just because Josh Gordon has not been arrested does not mean he would get less games than Washington or Blackmon.

The personal conduct policy is the document that gives the league the power to hand down discipline.

The personal conduct policy is the document where all previous incidents and any criminal proceedings are taken into account when determining disciplinary action.

This document also states that cases will be addressed in a timely manner.

The above players were all suspended under the substance abuse policy, not the personal conduct policy.

The personal conduct policy is the tool the document the league uses to punish players.

The substance abuse policy is 'under' the personal conduct policy.

The personal conduct policy is not 'under' the substane abuse policy.

The personal conduct policy has all violations under it so the substance abuse policy would show if a player had violated the NFL's personal conduct policy not the other way around.

 

[False Start]

The newest rumor is he was on a flight back from Europe and missed the test by a few hours.

He took the test that same day (though hours after the deadline) and passed.

Do I believe this story? Probably 99% no. But that's what's running now, and sure... I guess that could happen.

Source or was it an unnamed source?

 

[Soulfly3]

Ever since the report from ESPN Cleveland came out w the report that the Browns are showing optimism re: Gordon's case, Gordon has been tweeting again, and fairly frequently.

Prior to that he'd laid off the social media almost entirely.

odd.

 

[Soulfly3]

The newest rumor is he was on a flight back from Europe and missed the test by a few hours.

He took the test that same day (though hours after the deadline) and passed.

Do I believe this story? Probably 99% no. But that's what's running now, and sure... I guess that could happen.

Source or was it an unnamed source?

bolded and underlined for you

 

[Dr. Octopus]

The newest rumor is he was on a flight back from Europe and missed the test by a few hours.

He took the test that same day (though hours after the deadline) and passed.

Do I believe this story? Probably 99% no. But that's what's running now, and sure... I guess that could happen.

Why would they bother to even test him, if they were just going to ignore the results and suspend him anyway. It's very strange that you'll throw out crap like this, but ignore reports that have some basis in reality and have sources (even if they are unnamed).

I still stand by my view that none of us have any idea what is going on or what is going to happen, until the news is officially announced, but the recent reports seem to be negative for Gordon's chances of playing in 2014. We'll see though - for the sake of Browns' fans I hope he does play. I'd like to see some new blood in the playoffs this season.

 

[Soulfly3]

The newest rumor is he was on a flight back from Europe and missed the test by a few hours.

He took the test that same day (though hours after the deadline) and passed.

Do I believe this story? Probably 99% no. But that's what's running now, and sure... I guess that could happen.

Why would they bother to even test him, if they were just going to ignore the results and suspend him anyway. It's very strange that you'll throw out crap like this, but ignore reports that have some basis in reality and have sources (even if they are unnamed).

the NFL doesnt test him. so why wouldnt they if he showed up?

secondly, Im just posting a rumor that's going around. a rumor i said is likely 99% BS.

So, I dunno... Im just putting it out there. I invite and welcome all reports to be posted here. BS or not

 

[Bracie Smathers]

So did he violate the drug policy by using drugs or did he just miss a drug test ?

No one knows but former Browns WR Greg Little hints that it could have been a missed drug test that was out of Gordon's control.

Cleveland Browns wide receiver Josh Gordon is facing a lengthy NFL suspension for violating the league's substance-abuse policy, but the circumstances surrounding the matter remain cloudy.

ESPN reported earlier this month that Gordon was headed for a year-long ban after failing a drug test for marijuana. FOX Sports 1 NFL insider Mike Garafolo reported that Gordon hopes to have the suspension reduced to four to six games upon appeal.

Neither the Browns nor Gordon's camp have provided details on what exactly happened. But new Oakland Raiders wide receiver Greg Little -- who is one of Gordon's close friends and a Browns teammates until being waived last week -- indicated Thursday night that the suspension may not stem from something as simple as a positive urine sample.

"He's a guy that's going to work to get back and show this is a mistake," Little told co-host Bill Polian and me about Gordon on SiriusXM NFL Radio. "It's something that wasn't in his control, so to speak. I don't want to get into too much detail about it."

Although Little wouldn't elaborate further, one possibility is that Gordon missed a random NFL drug test that he was subject to taking. A missed test would automatically be considered a positive under the league's substance-abuse policy.

The bolded is all that matters, Littles opinion does not.

Greg Little was Josh Gordon's friend and he knows him and apparently knows something.

Previously you said Soulfly was biased and dismissed anything that didn't fit his bias.

You dismiss Greg Little's information as merely opinion.

 

[Soulfly3]

Previously you said Soulfly was biased and dismissed anything that didn't fit his bias.

You dismiss Greg Little's information as merely opinion.

95% of this thread is pots calling my kettle black.

it's pretty humorous.

 

[Adam Harstad]

The only thing I am sure of is I cannot believe what Josh Gordon says or what his agent says, but I really want to see Gordon play this year, gotta find out if last year was a fluke or if he is indeed a top WR. With those monster games he had, it will be a shame if he doesn't play.

The whole time I was in Utah, I never ended up testing positive for any administrative test given by the administrative people there, Gordon said. It was just their choice to test me and just make sure I was staying clean.

i thought the reason he made himself legible for the supplemental draft was because of a positive test?

I was under the impression that that was just speculation, since Gordon denied any failed drug tests at Utah when he entered the league, but a quick google search turned up this old article at PFT where Gordon later admitted that he did, in fact, test positive at Utah.

So that gives us a positive test in October 2010, a positive test in July 2011 (getting him kicked off of one team), another positive test in 2011 (getting him kicked off of another team), a positive test either during or shortly after the 2012 season (getting him his suspension last year), and a positive test (or missed test, or other violation) either during or shortly after the 2013 season (to kick off this current suspension talk). That's at a bare minimum, that we know of- there could be other failed tests sprinkled in there somewhere, but we're up to 5 confirmed run-ins with the substance abuse policy since October 2010 (less than four years), which have gotten him kicked off of two teams and on the cusp of a potential year-long suspension for a third team.

Also, we know that after all of this, Josh Gordon was still speeding around town with a friend who was either smoking weed around Gordon, or who was carrying so much weed that a cop was able to smell it on him.

We can add all of that to the very short list of facts we know for sure.

You can add at least one and possibly two more there. You don't get suspended for your first positive test in the NFL, and you might not get suspended for your second.

Typically the first gets you on the NFL's radar (stage one), and the second (first failure in stage two) comes with a fine, but not a suspension unless the player didn't successfully complete stage one.

So we're talking six or seven confirmed test failures, plus the giant weed tattoo and the traffic stop. I'm gobsmacked at what people have been able to offload this guy for.

I was being conservative and sticking strictly with the things we absolutely, positively, 100% knew for sure, since much of the recent discussion had centered on differentiating "facts" from "opinions". It's possible (probable?) that there's another failed test in there to get Gordon to where he is now in the substance abuse program (it's also possible- probable?- that he began his career at an advanced point in the program due to the circumstances surrounding his entry into the NFL, which is why we can't know for certain how many tests he failed).

If we're adding in things that we don't know for 100% certain, I would also point out that, according to his claims, he has tested positive for codeine as well as marijuana. This is more troublesome if true because it indicates he potentially has problems with two different banned substances, and because codeine is the primary component in the popular (and much more addictive) "purple drank".

 

[Adam Harstad]

Greg Little was Josh Gordon's friend and he knows him and apparently knows something.

Previously you said Soulfly was biased and dismissed anything that didn't fit his bias.

You dismiss Greg Little's information as merely opinion.

I would say that Josh Gordon probably knows a thing or two about Josh Gordon's substance abuse history, yet some people seem pretty comfortable dismissing the fact that Josh Gordon said he thought Josh Gordon was in stage 3 of the substance abuse program.

I would say that Josh Gordon rates as a more credible source than Greg Little. I get dismissing both, and I get dismissing neither, and I get listening to Gordon while dismissing Little, but I don't really get listening to Little while dismissing Gordon.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

They probably haven't scheduled his appeal hearing because they are delaying the inevitable. "We'll let you get some football in this summer Josh because you know once we suspend you, you're never coming back...You'll be toking it up endlessly and will never pass another drug test".

 

[Bracie Smathers]

They probably haven't scheduled his appeal hearing because they are delaying the inevitable. "We'll let you get some football in this summer Josh because you know once we suspend you, you're never coming back...You'll be toking it up endlessly and will never pass another drug test".

If it were inevitable he would have already exhausted the appeal process and would have gotten suspended already.

It was reported over a month ago that Washington failed in his appeal process when his suspension was handed down.

If they felt Gordon had nothing they would 'not' string along the process just so he could get some football in.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Greg Little was Josh Gordon's friend and he knows him and apparently knows something.

Previously you said Soulfly was biased and dismissed anything that didn't fit his bias.

You dismiss Greg Little's information as merely opinion.

I would say that Josh Gordon probably knows a thing or two about Josh Gordon's substance abuse history, yet some people seem pretty comfortable dismissing the fact that Josh Gordon said he thought Josh Gordon was in stage 3 of the substance abuse program.

I would say that Josh Gordon rates as a more credible source than Greg Little. I get dismissing both, and I get dismissing neither, and I get listening to Gordon while dismissing Little, but I don't really get listening to Little while dismissing Gordon.

Some seem pretty comfortable dismissing everything that doesn't fit their bias I'd say because their is a ton that doesn't fit your bias that you are dismsissing but you only mention one thing that fits your bias.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Greg Little was Josh Gordon's friend and he knows him and apparently knows something.

Previously you said Soulfly was biased and dismissed anything that didn't fit his bias.

You dismiss Greg Little's information as merely opinion.

I would say that Josh Gordon probably knows a thing or two about Josh Gordon's substance abuse history, yet some people seem pretty comfortable dismissing the fact that Josh Gordon said he thought Josh Gordon was in stage 3 of the substance abuse program.

I would say that Josh Gordon rates as a more credible source than Greg Little. I get dismissing both, and I get dismissing neither, and I get listening to Gordon while dismissing Little, but I don't really get listening to Little while dismissing Gordon.

Some seem pretty comfortable dismissing everything that doesn't fit their bias I'd say because their is a ton that doesn't fit your bias that you are dismsissing but you only mention one thing that fits your bias.

I try not to dismiss anything. I think the most likely explanation involves both Gordon and Little being right. I think Gordon was right when he said he was in stage 3 of the substance program. I think Little is right in that Gordon hopes to get his suspension reduced. I believe Gordon's tactic for doing so is going to be arguing that one of his previous violations shouldn't have counted and retroactively getting him moved out of stage 3 and back into stage 2. That story fits pretty well with all of the evidence available to us- Gordon's statements, Little's statements, the statements of Gordon's representation, the random speculation. I also think he has a not-insignificant chance of winning his appeal- the fact that his last suspension is reduced suggests there were some sort of irregularities at play in his tenure in the substance program to this point. I've been pretty open to the possibility of Gordon playing this season through this thread. In the other thread, I estimated (through the super-scientific process of just guessing wildly) that his chances of playing this year were 25%. Based on the delay, I might be willing to bump that up to 33%. I think he's probably out for the year, but I also think there's a very good chance he's not. Regardless of the outcome of his appeal, I think he's a massive risk to reoffend based on his demonstrated history to date.

If there's any evidence that I've ignored in reaching these opinions, it was unintentional, and I'd be happy to reconsider my position. Do you think there's something I've missed somewhere along the way, or another piece of evidence that I should consider (or perhaps be giving more weight)?

 

[False Start]

Greg Little was Josh Gordon's friend and he knows him and apparently knows something.

Previously you said Soulfly was biased and dismissed anything that didn't fit his bias.

You dismiss Greg Little's information as merely opinion.

I would say that Josh Gordon probably knows a thing or two about Josh Gordon's substance abuse history, yet some people seem pretty comfortable dismissing the fact that Josh Gordon said he thought Josh Gordon was in stage 3 of the substance abuse program.

I would say that Josh Gordon rates as a more credible source than Greg Little. I get dismissing both, and I get dismissing neither, and I get listening to Gordon while dismissing Little, but I don't really get listening to Little while dismissing Gordon.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I try not to dismiss anything. I think the most likely explanation involves both Gordon and Little being right. I think Gordon was right when he said he was in stage 3 of the substance program. I think Little is right in that Gordon hopes to get his suspension reduced. I believe Gordon's tactic for doing so is going to be arguing that one of his previous violations shouldn't have counted and retroactively getting him moved out of stage 3 and back into stage 2. That story fits pretty well with all of the evidence available to us- Gordon's statements, Little's statements, the statements of Gordon's representation, the random speculation. I also think he has a not-insignificant chance of winning his appeal- the fact that his last suspension is reduced suggests there were some sort of irregularities at play in his tenure in the substance program to this point. I've been pretty open to the possibility of Gordon playing this season through this thread. In the other thread, I estimated (through the super-scientific process of just guessing wildly) that his chances of playing this year were 25%. Based on the delay, I might be willing to bump that up to 33%. I think he's probably out for the year, but I also think there's a very good chance he's not. Regardless of the outcome of his appeal, I think he's a massive risk to reoffend based on his demonstrated history to date.

If there's any evidence that I've ignored in reaching these opinions, it was unintentional, and I'd be happy to reconsider my position. Do you think there's something I've missed somewhere along the way, or another piece of evidence that I should consider (or perhaps be giving more weight)?

That is a reasonable take to not dismiss anything.

If Gordon is correct he is in stage-3 of the substance abuse policy and that policy only determinse whether or not a player has violated the leagues substance abuse policy.

If in violation of that poicy the league goes through channels and then determines punishment from its NFL personal conduct policy that includes all violations from policies underneath it such as the substance abuse policy and it hands down punishment based on similiar cases.

We saw two such cases nearly a month ago where two players were banned for one year but both of those players had been suspeneded two times and one had been suspended three times and as the other player with only two suspensions case was being considered he was charged with assulting a woman and that crimal proceeding 'would' be considered under the NFL's personal conduct policy.

In any event you said you do not dismiss information so hats off to you because you also say that you don't dismiss Greg Little's information and he hints Gordon missed a test.

Last year Denver Broncos OLB Von Miller missed a test and was going to be suspended but he went through the appeals process and got his suspension cut down significantly.

So the delay from both Hill and Washington's suspension to the ongoing situation with Gordon seems to clearly hint he is in the appeal process.

Josh Gordon saying he is in stage 3 of the NFL substance abuse policy means his case would then go under the NFL's personal conduct policy to determine punishment and similiar cases and all appeals would then be heard or dismissed as Daryl Washington went through the appeal process and failed and he has already been suspended.

It seems obvious this case is in the appeal process so the only information we've heard is from Greg Little who hinted Josh missed a test that was counted as a fail.

Greg Little's information has to be considered.

A similiar successful appeal was made last year by Denver LB Von Miller so a missed test appeal has to be considered.

I've been saying all along that Josh Gordon's case was different from Hill and Washington and the appeal process has not been exhausted or he would have already been suspended.

Von Miller's suspension was chopped down and under the NFL's personal conduct policy the league takes into account similiar cases when dispensing punishment so I think it is reasonable and logical to assume Gordon will not face a year long ban similiar to Hill and Washington for numerous reasons even if his appeal eventually fails but it could be partically accepted like Von Miller or he may even win his appeal entirely.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Last year Denver Broncos OLB Von Miller missed a test and was going to be suspended but he went through the appeals process and got his suspension cut down significantly.

Von Miller's suspension last year was increased, not decreased. He was originally slated for a 4-game ban, but the league increased it to 6 when evidence surfaced that he was actively trying to cheat the test.

More to the point, I think Von Miller is a great counterargument against the belief that Gordon is "too big of a star" to get hit with a big suspension. Miller was the runner-up to DPoY and played for a team that Vegas was giving the best SB odds in the league, but the NFL was still willing to hold him out for MORE time than originally scheduled because the facts of his case merited it. That convinces me that Gordon's appeal will be judged strictly based on the facts of the case, with no deference given to Gordon's status as a star.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Man, this is one ####load of posts for a decision that hasn't been handed down yet.

 

[False Start]

Last year Denver Broncos OLB Von Miller missed a test and was going to be suspended but he went through the appeals process and got his suspension cut down significantly.

Von Miller's suspension last year was increased, not decreased. He was originally slated for a 4-game ban, but the league increased it to 6 when evidence surfaced that he was actively trying to cheat the test.

More to the point, I think Von Miller is a great counterargument against the belief that Gordon is "too big of a star" to get hit with a big suspension. Miller was the runner-up to DPoY and played for a team that Vegas was giving the best SB odds in the league, but the NFL was still willing to hold him out for MORE time than originally scheduled because the facts of his case merited it. That convinces me that Gordon's appeal will be judged strictly based on the facts of the case, with no deference given to Gordon's status as a star.

Adam is putting on a clinic here.

When you appeal something you are appealing the whole case and decision, the appeal decision can go against you just the same as it can go for you. Thats why the people who appeal generally have nothing to lose. That is the case legally and arbitrarily.

 

[massraider]

Man, this is one ####load of posts for a decision that hasn't been handed down yet.

When I find out the actual decision, I am going to SPRINT to this thread.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Last year Denver Broncos OLB Von Miller missed a test and was going to be suspended but he went through the appeals process and got his suspension cut down significantly.

Von Miller's suspension last year was increased, not decreased. He was originally slated for a 4-game ban, but the league increased it to 6 when evidence surfaced that he was actively trying to cheat the test.

More to the point, I think Von Miller is a great counterargument against the belief that Gordon is "too big of a star" to get hit with a big suspension. Miller was the runner-up to DPoY and played for a team that Vegas was giving the best SB odds in the league, but the NFL was still willing to hold him out for MORE time than originally scheduled because the facts of his case merited it. That convinces me that Gordon's appeal will be judged strictly based on the facts of the case, with no deference given to Gordon's status as a star.

I don't think I've seen anyone say this yet in this thread but YOU ARE RIGHT AND I AM WRONG.

I think some would rather die than admit they made a mistake but I don't care, lol. I did so you are right and I am wrong.

Von Miller did get an increase but many, myself included, felt he should have been banned for the remainder of the year for getting caught with a pee-bottle in an embarrassing attempt to cheat the testing system.

The fact he was a big star on a division leading team with Peyton Manning as its QB seemed to show clear bias IMHO but that is a different case as you said.

The connection with Miller and Washington etc to Josh Gordon is appeals process and that was my intention of bringing Miller's case up because some have dismissed the fact Daryl Washington had exhuasted the appeals process before getting suspended.

During the season the league goes through that process quickly but now the league has a month between the rookie symposium and the start of training camp so I'm sure this won't be adjudicated swiftly.

If the league felt Gordon didn't have anything to appeal he had exhuasted his appeals process as Daryl Washington had and the league would not be prolonging this ordeal IMHO.

 

[BroadwayG]

So,

In the same night an unnamed source gives a report to Florio stating the league has yet to suspend him, and no appeal date has been filed.

And another unnamed source states he's in Stage 3 to Dawg Pound Nation.

So Slanderous.

Everyone knows the best defense to a defamation suit is....

Everyone knows when you use an "unnamed source" it's likely BS.

At least if it's someone credible, I could give it 5% thought. Unnamed? Might as well be Bayhawks breaking the news to me.

Until the comedian chimes in on twitter, everything else is just flak.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Last year Denver Broncos OLB Von Miller missed a test and was going to be suspended but he went through the appeals process and got his suspension cut down significantly.

Von Miller's suspension last year was increased, not decreased. He was originally slated for a 4-game ban, but the league increased it to 6 when evidence surfaced that he was actively trying to cheat the test.

More to the point, I think Von Miller is a great counterargument against the belief that Gordon is "too big of a star" to get hit with a big suspension. Miller was the runner-up to DPoY and played for a team that Vegas was giving the best SB odds in the league, but the NFL was still willing to hold him out for MORE time than originally scheduled because the facts of his case merited it. That convinces me that Gordon's appeal will be judged strictly based on the facts of the case, with no deference given to Gordon's status as a star.

I don't think I've seen anyone say this yet in this thread but YOU ARE RIGHT AND I AM WRONG.

I think some would rather die than admit they made a mistake but I don't care, lol. I did so you are right and I am wrong.

Von Miller did get an increase but many, myself included, felt he should have been banned for the remainder of the year for getting caught with a pee-bottle in an embarrassing attempt to cheat the testing system.

The fact he was a big star on a division leading team with Peyton Manning as its QB seemed to show clear bias IMHO but that is a different case as you said.

The connection with Miller and Washington etc to Josh Gordon is appeals process and that was my intention of bringing Miller's case up because some have dismissed the fact Daryl Washington had exhuasted the appeals process before getting suspended.

During the season the league goes through that process quickly but now the league has a month between the rookie symposium and the start of training camp so I'm sure this won't be adjudicated swiftly.

If the league felt Gordon didn't have anything to appeal he had exhuasted his appeals process as Daryl Washington had and the league would not be prolonging this ordeal IMHO.

I believe that discussion at the time was that the league was hot to give Miller a year-long vacation (despite his status as the second-biggest star on one of the league's best teams), but wasn't able to because Miller was assisted in his deception by one of the league's own representatives.

We're firmly in the realm of speculation and supposition, here, but I really don't think Von Miller's situation is a positive for Josh Gordon. I think that Miller was at least as high-profile of a player as Gordon, and I think the league really wanted his head. If Miller could get hammered like that, I believe there's no reason Gordon couldn't, too.

At the end of the day, I think the suspension is going to hinge strictly on the facts of the case. Which, of course, is a problem because so many of those facts are unknown to us right now.