B-Deep
Footballguy
0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.
0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.
That's a fair point about when the original penalty was handed down. But typically the appeals process doesn't count as a "time served" so logically I don't think the NFL would have any reason to use May as the suspension start date.The written decision hasn't been made available yet, but I suspect that this point is being misreported.I suspect that the initial suspension handed down in May was for one calendar year.I also suspect that the arbitrator's ruling was simply to uphold that suspension based on his conclusion that Gordon really did fail the drug test.The length of the suspension, I suspect, was not something that the arbitrator was given to rule on, so he would not have taken it upon himself to do so, except just to uphold the original suspension.I believe, therefore, that talk of less than a full calendar year is coming not from the arbitrator's decision, but rather from a league source discussing the league's intention to allow Gordon to apply for reinstatement early (perhaps in return for Gordon's promise not to sue in court).I could be proven wrong about all of that whenever the arbitrator's written decision is released, but that's my guess.I wonder if the NFL strategically made this a one season suspension vs. a one year suspension ...
I'm still not seeing anything in the Substance Abuse Policy about a lifetime ban. Maybe the commissioner would be unlikely to reinstate a player after multiple indefinite suspensions, but I can't find anything written that specifically calls for a "lifetime" ban. Here is the exact wording:Lifetime bans come after a second indefinite suspension. I think Blackmon is closer to that fate than Gordon at this point, but I'm not sure.I don't think there is anything in the substance abuse policy about a lifetime ban. It's just that once you're in stage 3, you stay there forever and any violation in stage 3 results in a MINIMUM 1 year ban. Its always at the sole discretion of the commission if/when the player is reinstated to the NFL.So the next screw up is a full lifetime ban, correct? Any chance of a conviction on the DUI charge (pushed to November) being that next screw up? Could have already have a lifetime suspension without any further infractions?
Stage Three.
a. Procedures.
(1) Term: A player in Stage Three will remain in Stage Three
for the remainder of his NFL career.
(2) Compliance with Treatment Plan: A player in Stage
Three must comply with the terms of his Treatment Plan, as
required in Stage Two and as may be developed and/or
amended in Stage Three.
(3) Testing: A player in Stage Three will be subject to
unannounced Testing. At the sole discretion of the Medical
Advisor, a player may or may not be tested; however, if he
is tested, he may be tested up to 10 times during any
calendar month. Such Testing shall include Testing for the
NFL Drug Panel and alcohol, but in addition Tests for other
substances of abuse will be conducted if the player’s
Treatment Plan requires abstention from and enumerates
testing for such substances. After being in Stage Three for
three seasons, a player may request of the Medical Advisor
that the number of tests that he is subject to be reduced.
The Medical Advisor may, but is not required to, agree to
the request. A player in Stage Three may not make this
request more often than annually. The Medical Advisor,
after consultation with the Medical Director, may extend or
resume this period of Testing.
(4) Evaluation: A player, while undergoing Stage Three
Testing, may be required to submit to further evaluation
and subsequent treatment at the discretion of the Medical
Director.
b. Discipline.
(1) Discipline for Failure to Comply in Stage Three: A
player who fails to cooperate with testing, treatment,
evaluation or other requirements imposed on him by this
Policy or fails to comply with his Treatment Plan, both as
determined by the Medical Director, or who has a Positive
Test, will be banished from the NFL for a minimum period
of one calendar year.
(2) Banishment: A player banished from the NFL pursuant to
subsection (1) above will be required to adhere to his
Treatment Plan and the provisions of this Intervention
Program during his banishment. During a player’s period of
banishment, his contract with an NFL club shall be tolled.
c. Reinstatement.
(1) Criteria: After the completion of the one-year banishment
period, the Commissioner, in his sole discretion, will
determine if and when the player will be allowed to return
to the NFL. A player’s failure to adhere to his Treatment
Plan during his banishment will be a significant
consideration in the Commissioner’s decision of whether to
reinstate a player. A player seeking reinstatement must
meet certain clinical requirements as determined by the
Medical Director and other requirements as set forth in
Appendix B.
(2) Procedures After Reinstatement: If a player is reinstated,
he will remain in Stage Three for the remainder of his NFL
career, subject to continued Testing and indefinite
banishment. A player allowed to return to the NFL
following a banishment must participate in continued
treatment under this Intervention Program as required by
the Medical Director.
if you think he walked by a joint and failed this test you are not living in the real world.What if he was an got a second hand exposure?Yeah. Imagine expecting a guy who can make tens of millions in a part time job to be responsible for his own behavior. We must have a nanny state, dammit!The biggest punishment is Gordon cannot be around the facility and on the sidelines at the games....actually one way he can help himself stay clean. Instead, he is sent 100% of the time to the place where he messes up. Congrats to the NFL on helping a young man.
I mean, he probably WASNT smoking weed.
Wrong place, wrong time, plainly but he barely failed a test and one was clean.
Policy for policy sake with a commissioner who has written the book on being discretionary is tough to take.
Gordon did his "crime" and will do his time, that's fine. It's a closed issue.
And if the responsibility quotient is what you feel, your thoughts on Irsay and Rice, who have no grey area in their offenses.
The other thing that no one knows is what was his reading was the day before or three days before? How do we know the low reading was not at the tail end, and was much higher earlier in the week?Doesn't matter if it was 0.01 or 100,000,000, he failed, broke the rules and got his punishment. In most workplaces you fail a drug test your done for life with that firm, no one year lay off0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.
And again, the message being sent is "it's ok Josh, rules do not apply to you, you are special!"That's a fair point about when the original penalty was handed down. But typically the appeals process doesn't count as a "time served" so logically I don't think the NFL would have any reason to use May as the suspension start date.The written decision hasn't been made available yet, but I suspect that this point is being misreported.I suspect that the initial suspension handed down in May was for one calendar year.I also suspect that the arbitrator's ruling was simply to uphold that suspension based on his conclusion that Gordon really did fail the drug test.The length of the suspension, I suspect, was not something that the arbitrator was given to rule on, so he would not have taken it upon himself to do so, except just to uphold the original suspension.I believe, therefore, that talk of less than a full calendar year is coming not from the arbitrator's decision, but rather from a league source discussing the league's intention to allow Gordon to apply for reinstatement early (perhaps in return for Gordon's promise not to sue in court).I could be proven wrong about all of that whenever the arbitrator's written decision is released, but that's my guess.I wonder if the NFL strategically made this a one season suspension vs. a one year suspension ...
Legally or tactically they may due to your points about Gordon suing etc. Although Cleveland sports radio is reportedly hopping with reports that Gordon is firing up the lawyers. Of course, sports radio is about worthless on this type of stuff a lot of times.
a nanny state eh. like one that punishes ppl for smoking weed?Yeah. Imagine expecting a guy who can make tens of millions in a part time job to be responsible for his own behavior. We must have a nanny state, dammit!The biggest punishment is Gordon cannot be around the facility and on the sidelines at the games....actually one way he can help himself stay clean. Instead, he is sent 100% of the time to the place where he messes up. Congrats to the NFL on helping a young man.
This isn't really a football topic anymore but the hard part is stopping yourself from saying, "What are the odds that I'm going to get in this car with a bag of weed and get pulled over?" and doing it after you conclude that this sort of stuff happens to other people and not you.Where I work I have a company vehicle. If I get a DUI, I am fired, done, kicked to the curve, no appeal. Margin of error doesn't matter, I know the company policy. You know how I handle this, I have a designed driver when I go out and have a few drinks. It's really not that hard to play by the rules. The NFL drug policy is the same for every player, doesn't matter if it was second hand smoke etc,. when you know the rules you don't get yourself into those situations or hang out where drugs are being used. It's not that hard.Can you convert that into Doritos consumed for we simpletons?0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.I hope you never get pulled over and blow a .080. I would assume there is some built in clinically accepted margin of error for the amount? If so, Gordon and his legal staff should have definitely challenged the result and possible suspension. I'm assuming they had expert toxicology testimony stating that Gordon's results were well within the accepted margin of error, and I'm surprised that didn't create enough doubt to carry the day.Doesn't matter if it was 0.01 or 100,000,000, he failed, broke the rules and got his punishment. In most workplaces you fail a drug test your done for life with that firm, no one year lay off0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.
I don't have to hide getting caught doing anything I'm doing.If you're not a moron who gets into the substance abuse program then you can do blow in Vegas bathrooms and get caught doing it.Just landed in Seattle, cross country flight that got me up way to early. Gonna finish up a bit of work, get a light workout in, pickup some stuff to grill and then decide if I want to smoke a bowl or have a bourbon.
Sometimes it must suck to play in the NFL.
Employers from truck drivers to police departments to accountants will continue to test for it or prohibit it as a matter of personal conduct for years to come.I don't have to hide getting caught doing anything I'm doing.If you're not a moron who gets into the substance abuse program then you can do blow in Vegas bathrooms and get caught doing it.Just landed in Seattle, cross country flight that got me up way to early. Gonna finish up a bit of work, get a light workout in, pickup some stuff to grill and then decide if I want to smoke a bowl or have a bourbon.
Sometimes it must suck to play in the NFL.
Totally Gordon's fault. He f'ed up, just saying it sucks that in a few years none of his "crimes" would matter.
Yeah, I may not have been clear. I wasn't saying that Gordon would get credit for time served during the appeal process (when he was practicing and playing in preseason games). I was saying that I suspect that the arbitrator upheld the original one-year suspension, meaning that Gordon would be eligible for reinstatement on August 27, 2015. I'd be a bit surprised if the arbitrator's ruling said anything inconsistent with that.That's a fair point about when the original penalty was handed down. But typically the appeals process doesn't count as a "time served" so logically I don't think the NFL would have any reason to use May as the suspension start date.The written decision hasn't been made available yet, but I suspect that this point is being misreported.I suspect that the initial suspension handed down in May was for one calendar year.I also suspect that the arbitrator's ruling was simply to uphold that suspension based on his conclusion that Gordon really did fail the drug test.The length of the suspension, I suspect, was not something that the arbitrator was given to rule on, so he would not have taken it upon himself to do so, except just to uphold the original suspension.I believe, therefore, that talk of less than a full calendar year is coming not from the arbitrator's decision, but rather from a league source discussing the league's intention to allow Gordon to apply for reinstatement early (perhaps in return for Gordon's promise not to sue in court).I could be proven wrong about all of that whenever the arbitrator's written decision is released, but that's my guess.I wonder if the NFL strategically made this a one season suspension vs. a one year suspension ...
Legally or tactically they may due to your points about Gordon suing etc. Although Cleveland sports radio is reportedly hopping with reports that Gordon is firing up the lawyers. Of course, sports radio is about worthless on this type of stuff a lot of times.
its amazing how many ppl dont understand how to measure.0.01 nanograms per milliliter is what he failed by....that is not a lot for you non-scientists.
yes. the Doctor set the universe correct ...AGAIN!Wait... did something happen?
That's true. They should in many jobs.Employers from truck drivers to police departments to accountants will continue to test for it or prohibit it as a matter of personal conduct for years to come.I don't have to hide getting caught doing anything I'm doing.Totally Gordon's fault. He f'ed up, just saying it sucks that in a few years none of his "crimes" would matter.If you're not a moron who gets into the substance abuse program then you can do blow in Vegas bathrooms and get caught doing it.Just landed in Seattle, cross country flight that got me up way to early. Gonna finish up a bit of work, get a light workout in, pickup some stuff to grill and then decide if I want to smoke a bowl or have a bourbon.
Sometimes it must suck to play in the NFL.
I don't understand why it's unreasonably long. I've used an arbitrator a few times in my business to settle property disputes, and even the simple ones take at least 2-3 months. Usually these guys are jammed with cases, and that's the reason for the delay. It seems to me that 23 days is a very short time indeed.It's not the NFL that's supposed to rule; it's the arbitrator. And he's supposed to rule "within a reasonable time." I think 23 days is unreasonably long, myself, but ten days would have been reasonable. And the difference between the two isn't all that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. If Gordon stays out of trouble between now and then, he'll probably be able to negotiate a reduction of the suspension by at least 13 days, I would think, without filing a lawsuit.My buddy who is a Browns fan is babbling about Gordon suing the league because they are supposed to rule within 5 days of the appeal. My understanding is that the league no longer is the one making the ruling and that it is an independent arbitrator now so the 5 days thing is out the window under the new policy enacted last year.
Can anyone confirm one way or the other on that?
No3 questions:
1. Is he paid during the suspension?
2. Is he paid for the preseason games?
3. Does this affect his contract with the Browns in anyway? In other words, if he had 3 years left on his contract, next year he'll have 2, etc.?
1. No.3 questions:
1. Is he paid during the suspension?
2. Is he paid for the preseason games?
3. Does this affect his contract with the Browns in anyway? In other words, if he had 3 years left on his contract, next year he'll have 2, etc.?
1. No, he forfeits his salary3 questions:
1. Is he paid during the suspension?
2. Is he paid for the preseason games?
3. Does this affect his contract with the Browns in anyway? In other words, if he had 3 years left on his contract, next year he'll have 2, etc.?
Look, I support legalized pot - and I've never used it. But that isn't the issue.a nanny state eh. like one that punishes ppl for smoking weed?Yeah. Imagine expecting a guy who can make tens of millions in a part time job to be responsible for his own behavior. We must have a nanny state, dammit!The biggest punishment is Gordon cannot be around the facility and on the sidelines at the games....actually one way he can help himself stay clean. Instead, he is sent 100% of the time to the place where he messes up. Congrats to the NFL on helping a young man.
So regarding point 3, if he had 3 more years left on his contract, those 3 years begin in 2015?1. No, he forfeits his salary3 questions:
1. Is he paid during the suspension?
2. Is he paid for the preseason games?
3. Does this affect his contract with the Browns in anyway? In other words, if he had 3 years left on his contract, next year he'll have 2, etc.?
2. I believe players get small stipends during the preseason but their salary is divided by game checks.
3. Yes, he now is one more full season away from free agency - likely the biggest punishment of all to come out of this.
3. His contract is suspended as well. Meaning that during his suspension his contract is frozen and picks up where it left off.1. No.3 questions:
1. Is he paid during the suspension?
2. Is he paid for the preseason games?
3. Does this affect his contract with the Browns in anyway? In other words, if he had 3 years left on his contract, next year he'll have 2, etc.?
2. Yes, for the ones he's already suited up for. But it's only a few hundred bucks a week, I think.
3. Good question. I believe that he'd have to be eligible to play for at least six games in order for it to count as a contract year, which would mean that if he had three years left before this, he'll still have three years left when he returns.
Discussed, explained and concluded well over a month ago.Has Soulfly paid off his bet?
Yes, you need to play in 6 NFL games to qualify as a season played. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly sure that's the case. I believe that was the issue when Vincent Jackson threatened to sit out the season when - he had to come back by Week 10 or it wouldn't count towards his NFL service time.So regarding point 3, if he had 3 more years left on his contract, those 3 years begin in 2015?1. No, he forfeits his salary3 questions:
1. Is he paid during the suspension?
2. Is he paid for the preseason games?
3. Does this affect his contract with the Browns in anyway? In other words, if he had 3 years left on his contract, next year he'll have 2, etc.?
2. I believe players get small stipends during the preseason but their salary is divided by game checks.
3. Yes, he now is one more full season away from free agency - likely the biggest punishment of all to come out of this.
I tend to agree. Gordon's lawyers presented evidence for something like 3 days and reportedly submitted a TON of evidence, if the arbitrator was going through all the evidence and testimony and checking it for its veracity, I could see how that would take some time.I don't understand why it's unreasonably long. I've used an arbitrator a few times in my business to settle property disputes, and even the simple ones take at least 2-3 months. Usually these guys are jammed with cases, and that's the reason for the delay. It seems to me that 23 days is a very short time indeed.It just seemed long to us because we play fantasy football and it;s draft time. Otherwise, who would care how long it took?It's not the NFL that's supposed to rule; it's the arbitrator. And he's supposed to rule "within a reasonable time." I think 23 days is unreasonably long, myself, but ten days would have been reasonable. And the difference between the two isn't all that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. If Gordon stays out of trouble between now and then, he'll probably be able to negotiate a reduction of the suspension by at least 13 days, I would think, without filing a lawsuit.My buddy who is a Browns fan is babbling about Gordon suing the league because they are supposed to rule within 5 days of the appeal. My understanding is that the league no longer is the one making the ruling and that it is an independent arbitrator now so the 5 days thing is out the window under the new policy enacted last year.
Can anyone confirm one way or the other on that?
OK thanks. Well you're right, that is quite a punishment.Yes, you need to play in 6 NFL games to qualify as a season played. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly sure that's the case. I believe that was the issue when Vincent Jackson threatened to sit out the season when - he had to come back by Week 10 or it wouldn't count towards his NFL service time.So regarding point 3, if he had 3 more years left on his contract, those 3 years begin in 2015?1. No, he forfeits his salary3 questions:
1. Is he paid during the suspension?
2. Is he paid for the preseason games?
3. Does this affect his contract with the Browns in anyway? In other words, if he had 3 years left on his contract, next year he'll have 2, etc.?
2. I believe players get small stipends during the preseason but their salary is divided by game checks.
3. Yes, he now is one more full season away from free agency - likely the biggest punishment of all to come out of this.
That bunch will never get ita nanny state eh. like one that punishes ppl for smoking weed?Yeah. Imagine expecting a guy who can make tens of millions in a part time job to be responsible for his own behavior. We must have a nanny state, dammit!The biggest punishment is Gordon cannot be around the facility and on the sidelines at the games....actually one way he can help himself stay clean. Instead, he is sent 100% of the time to the place where he messes up. Congrats to the NFL on helping a young man.
One more question- I assume that if you suffer an injury that ends up having you miss most of the season, but the team doesn't put you on IR (like Percy Harvin last year), you're still paid, right?OK thanks. Well you're right, that is quite a punishment.Yes, you need to play in 6 NFL games to qualify as a season played. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly sure that's the case. I believe that was the issue when Vincent Jackson threatened to sit out the season when - he had to come back by Week 10 or it wouldn't count towards his NFL service time.So regarding point 3, if he had 3 more years left on his contract, those 3 years begin in 2015?1. No, he forfeits his salary3 questions:
1. Is he paid during the suspension?
2. Is he paid for the preseason games?
3. Does this affect his contract with the Browns in anyway? In other words, if he had 3 years left on his contract, next year he'll have 2, etc.?
2. I believe players get small stipends during the preseason but their salary is divided by game checks.
3. Yes, he now is one more full season away from free agency - likely the biggest punishment of all to come out of this.
Sure, but that's up to the NFL decide, and they just might conclude that it is worth testing for years to come. There are 32 conservative billionaires plus Mr. 'no proof needed' Goodell, plus some serious workplace liability issues.That's true. They should in many jobs.Employers from truck drivers to police departments to accountants will continue to test for it or prohibit it as a matter of personal conduct for years to come.I don't have to hide getting caught doing anything I'm doing.Totally Gordon's fault. He f'ed up, just saying it sucks that in a few years none of his "crimes" would matter.If you're not a moron who gets into the substance abuse program then you can do blow in Vegas bathrooms and get caught doing it.Just landed in Seattle, cross country flight that got me up way to early. Gonna finish up a bit of work, get a light workout in, pickup some stuff to grill and then decide if I want to smoke a bowl or have a bourbon.
Sometimes it must suck to play in the NFL.
Playing wide receiver probably isn't one of them where it is as important.
It took long because the league was well aware that Gordon's legal team was going for the nuclear option if the suspension wasn't overturned, they tried to tie up all the loose ends.This is only in the 4th or 5th inning.Yeah, this is obviously the next step. Blown away that it took that long to just uphold the original suspension.Next step ..will the legal team go for an injunction in the courts?
Which would be what exactly?Sure, but that's up to the NFL decide, and they just might conclude that it is worth testing for years to come. There are 32 conservative billionaires plus Mr. 'no proof needed' Goodell, plus some serious workplace liability issues.That's true. They should in many jobs.Employers from truck drivers to police departments to accountants will continue to test for it or prohibit it as a matter of personal conduct for years to come.I don't have to hide getting caught doing anything I'm doing.Totally Gordon's fault. He f'ed up, just saying it sucks that in a few years none of his "crimes" would matter.If you're not a moron who gets into the substance abuse program then you can do blow in Vegas bathrooms and get caught doing it.Just landed in Seattle, cross country flight that got me up way to early. Gonna finish up a bit of work, get a light workout in, pickup some stuff to grill and then decide if I want to smoke a bowl or have a bourbon.
Sometimes it must suck to play in the NFL.
Playing wide receiver probably isn't one of them where it is as important.
Curious about this part. What harm is a person more likely to do, to self or others, while high on marijuana?Sure, but that's up to the NFL decide, and they just might conclude that it is worth testing for years to come. There are 32 conservative billionaires plus Mr. 'no proof needed' Goodell, plus some serious workplace liability issues.
AND REMEMEBERSure, but that's up to the NFL decide, and they just might conclude that it is worth testing for years to come. There are 32 conservative billionaires plus Mr. 'no proof needed' Goodell, plus some serious workplace liability issues.That's true. They should in many jobs.Employers from truck drivers to police departments to accountants will continue to test for it or prohibit it as a matter of personal conduct for years to come.I don't have to hide getting caught doing anything I'm doing.Totally Gordon's fault. He f'ed up, just saying it sucks that in a few years none of his "crimes" would matter.If you're not a moron who gets into the substance abuse program then you can do blow in Vegas bathrooms and get caught doing it.Just landed in Seattle, cross country flight that got me up way to early. Gonna finish up a bit of work, get a light workout in, pickup some stuff to grill and then decide if I want to smoke a bowl or have a bourbon.
Sometimes it must suck to play in the NFL.
Playing wide receiver probably isn't one of them where it is as important.
If it's a football injury, yes.One more question- I assume that if you suffer an injury that ends up having you miss most of the season, but the team doesn't put you on IR (like Percy Harvin last year), you're still paid, right?
Yes - if your injury was football related even if you are placed on IR you are still paid.One more question- I assume that if you suffer an injury that ends up having you miss most of the season, but the team doesn't put you on IR (like Percy Harvin last year), you're still paid, right?OK thanks. Well you're right, that is quite a punishment.Yes, you need to play in 6 NFL games to qualify as a season played. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly sure that's the case. I believe that was the issue when Vincent Jackson threatened to sit out the season when - he had to come back by Week 10 or it wouldn't count towards his NFL service time.So regarding point 3, if he had 3 more years left on his contract, those 3 years begin in 2015?1. No, he forfeits his salary3 questions:
1. Is he paid during the suspension?
2. Is he paid for the preseason games?
3. Does this affect his contract with the Browns in anyway? In other words, if he had 3 years left on his contract, next year he'll have 2, etc.?
2. I believe players get small stipends during the preseason but their salary is divided by game checks.
3. Yes, he now is one more full season away from free agency - likely the biggest punishment of all to come out of this.
The player is paid even if on IR. IR is more about the salary cap effects and roster management.One more question- I assume that if you suffer an injury that ends up having you miss most of the season, but the team doesn't put you on IR (like Percy Harvin last year), you're still paid, right?OK thanks. Well you're right, that is quite a punishment.Yes, you need to play in 6 NFL games to qualify as a season played. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly sure that's the case. I believe that was the issue when Vincent Jackson threatened to sit out the season when - he had to come back by Week 10 or it wouldn't count towards his NFL service time.So regarding point 3, if he had 3 more years left on his contract, those 3 years begin in 2015?1. No, he forfeits his salary3 questions:
1. Is he paid during the suspension?
2. Is he paid for the preseason games?
3. Does this affect his contract with the Browns in anyway? In other words, if he had 3 years left on his contract, next year he'll have 2, etc.?
2. I believe players get small stipends during the preseason but their salary is divided by game checks.
3. Yes, he now is one more full season away from free agency - likely the biggest punishment of all to come out of this.
I don't own him, but if I did, I'd certainly hold.Question for dynasty owners out there: Is Gordon a drop or will you burn a roster spot for the season?
Burn the roster spot, pray he stays out of trouble (doubtful), sell in a year when the reinstatement buzz starts.Question for dynasty owners out there: Is Gordon a drop or will you burn a roster spot for the season?