fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Sighting on a couple plays
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WR Laquon Treadwell, Free Agent (1 Viewer)
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
A couple articles today discussing Treadwell and why he hasn't been targeted yet after four weeks.
The Laquon Treadwell Situation
Why aren’t the Vikings playing Laquon Treadwell?
With Stefon Diggs listed as doubtful for this weeks game against the Texans and the Vikings only having 2 healthy TE for this game (Rudolph and Pruitt) I do think this opens the possibility for Treadwell to earn more playing time and likely more 3 WR sets as well.
I would still expect Theilen, Johnson and Patterson to play ahead of Treadwell. Patterson may take over as the Vikings Z WR with Diggs out and makes an interesting speculative play. After these 3 Treadwell does seem to be ahead of Jarius Wright though, and with Diggs out he may get some opportunities to play from the slot.
The Laquon Treadwell Situation
Why aren’t the Vikings playing Laquon Treadwell?
With Stefon Diggs listed as doubtful for this weeks game against the Texans and the Vikings only having 2 healthy TE for this game (Rudolph and Pruitt) I do think this opens the possibility for Treadwell to earn more playing time and likely more 3 WR sets as well.
I would still expect Theilen, Johnson and Patterson to play ahead of Treadwell. Patterson may take over as the Vikings Z WR with Diggs out and makes an interesting speculative play. After these 3 Treadwell does seem to be ahead of Jarius Wright though, and with Diggs out he may get some opportunities to play from the slot.
dipandglide
Footballguy
Thanks for sharing. I find it crazy that people start writing off guys like Treadwell when they haven't even seen the field yet and are 21 yrs old. this kid has done well at all levels and will continue the trend in the NFL. I'm patiently waiting ......
spider321
Footballguy
Treadwell recently turned 21 in June.
For comparison, Doctson will be 24 in 7 weeks.
dipandglide
Footballguy
Yup. I'll worry when it's year three and he's not seeing the field(see Cody Latimer).
spider321
Footballguy
dipandglide
Footballguy
You know what I mean. I think we see him sooner rather than later with their current WR lineup. If not, learn, develop, and be ready for '17.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Biabreakable was offering why he is CURRENTLY not playing. How did that translate to writing him off?
dipandglide
Footballguy
I thanked Bia for sharing those articles and was talking about all the haters and criticism towards Treadwell. I'm not sure how you interpreted what I said as me ipplying Bia was writing TW off.....
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I didn't take it that way.
There are some folks in this thread that seem to think he should have been starting already. I know this is what a lot of people were expecting when the Vikings drafted Treadwell, myself included to some extent, I thought he would be able to beat out Charles Johnson in training camp.
I never really thought Treadwell would be better than Diggs this season. With Diggs moving to the Z WR there was room for Treadwell to start at X.
Charles Johnson reportedly had a very good training camp, so after Treadwell hadn't won the job I started to think Johnson might have a good season. He did finally start producing in the last game against the Giants, but hadn't done much before then. The Giants secondary was missing some starters at safety as well.
Diggs played through his injury, last week, but in hindsight Diggs being limited may be part of the reason snaps for Patterson increased. Because of that I am expecting Patterson to play more this Sunday with Diggs almost certainly going to be out.
This still leaves more opportunity now for Treadwell to get involved with the offense. So I am excited to see if that is the case and what he can do.
:The Vikings have a bye in week 6. So hopefully DIggs will be recovered by then and the pecking order likely returns to what it was before but Treadwell I think will get some opportunity this week and if he does well then maybe that continues going forward.
Another reason why I think Treadwell will play more this week is because the Vikings will be without TEs Morgan and Ellison, requiring Pruitt and Rudolph to block more.
As far as writing Treadwell off long term. I think there are a lot of people who didn't think Treadwell was fast enough to be a NFL starter. The people who were down on Treadwell as a WR prospect just think they were right about that since Treadwell hasn't done anything yet. Those folks will continue to dismiss Treadwell (and they may be right) until Treadwell proves them wrong.
Personally I am not sure how things will pan out for Treadwell. But I won't make any judgements about that until 2018.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I'm gonna give Coach Zimmer some credit for knowing what he's doing.
There's probably better examples, but take his handling of Cordarelle. When coach arrived he had a multi-talented player with a limited route tree. Instead of continuing to use him as a gadget, he buried him on the depth chart & was openly critical of his lack of development. KR only (he's led the league 2 of his first 3 years & ripped off a 61 yarder to start the year. Patterson worked with a route running coach in the off-season, drawing praise in OTAs from his HC. In the Carolina game, Patterson lined up as the punt gunner for the first time. He made a great play to down a punt on the 2 & later tackled Ginn for a -1 loss. On MNF 8 days later, Zimmer rewarded him with increased snaps.
If Zimmer wants to make Treadwell earn his playing time by becoming a better route runner, I'm good with that. Not sure there's a more respected coach in the NFL right now.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Part of this is that the Vikings lost Teddy for the season and then crash course getting Bradford up to speed with the team. It is asking too much to have a rookie WR still not running the right depth and timing with his routes. That adds stress and uncertainty to the offense that they really could not afford with so many other new parts.
Now if Teddy had started the season and everything else was pretty familiar, well practiced, there may have been room for letting Treadwell learn some on the field, with everything else being consistent.
The passing offense uses a lot of timing routes. The receivers have to be in the right place at the right time for that to work. That is why Patterson was not being used as much before and why Teadwell hasn't been used much so far.
The receivers need to practice well and show some consistency is doing their job before the coaches are going to trust them in the games.
This is why the Vikings haven't turned the ball over and that is priority number one.
Now if Teddy had started the season and everything else was pretty familiar, well practiced, there may have been room for letting Treadwell learn some on the field, with everything else being consistent.
The passing offense uses a lot of timing routes. The receivers have to be in the right place at the right time for that to work. That is why Patterson was not being used as much before and why Teadwell hasn't been used much so far.
The receivers need to practice well and show some consistency is doing their job before the coaches are going to trust them in the games.
This is why the Vikings haven't turned the ball over and that is priority number one.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
That is not really true.
Yes Patterson was used on some bubble screens and they did a couple wildcat plays with Patterson as a part of it. They also had him line up as a RB on one play.
Most of his routes were go routes or other routes downfield just like any other WR though. He was not used primarily as a gadget guy.
Watch this and you will see.
spider321
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
He gets a 1st down on an out route. Nothing gadget about it.
He also runs a very good drag route that looked about as good as Diggs runs it. The ball was tipped at the line and he has to come back for it, which he did and made the catch. If it would not have been tipped, this likely would have led to a much better play.
He runs multiple go routes as well as some post routes downfield.
As usually you are talking out of your 4th point of contact. Stop doing that.
spider321
Footballguy
You keep posting that he ran a lot of routes. Fine. Great.
...but most of his touches were gadget plays. That's a fact.
Why is it upsetting you so much?
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
This is your first post that I attempted to correct but you you are not listening;
Prefacing the statement with ummm is juvinile and the statement that follows is inaccurate.
It is not a fact because that is not what happened. Most of the bubble screen looks are fakes, on running downs. They did target him on a couple bubbles early on in the game to set up the fakes.
I am not upset I just think readers deserve better than your misinformed opinions.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
If there was anything genuine in your apology I would consider accepting it. There isn't it is just another backhanded way of being a jerk.
No the majority of his touches were not gadget plays. The bubble screen perhaps could be considered a gadget play but it is a staple of a lot of NFL and college offenses. I do think there is some grey area there as far as how you would categorize that play.
Patterson is a known poor route runner. That is why he hasn't played much since Zimmer and Norv arrived. He finally put the work in and has improved. He deserves credit for that.
This conversation is going nowhere so find someone else to troll. I wont be wasting time on you anymore.
No the majority of his touches were not gadget plays. The bubble screen perhaps could be considered a gadget play but it is a staple of a lot of NFL and college offenses. I do think there is some grey area there as far as how you would categorize that play.
Patterson is a known poor route runner. That is why he hasn't played much since Zimmer and Norv arrived. He finally put the work in and has improved. He deserves credit for that.
This conversation is going nowhere so find someone else to troll. I wont be wasting time on you anymore.
spider321
Footballguy
Patterson had 6 touches(not including his kick return) in the game.
09:10 1st quarter - Bubble screen for 21 yards GADGET
00:53 1st quarter - Took handoff for 2 yards GADGET
13:45 3rd quarter - Bubble screen for 6 yards GADGET
04:00 3rd quarter - Quick out for 4 yards Gadget-ish (I'll give you that one)
12:53 4th quarter - Quick slant for 3 yards(tipped) Gadget-ish again (but I'll give you that one, too)
11:43 4th quarter - Bubble screen for 4 yards GADGET
As a matter of fact, Patterson did not catch the football more than 4 yards away from the line of scrimmage. Not even once.
I think my 4th point of contact would be sore right now, if I were you, Biak.
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spider321
Footballguy
Would you like to revise your statement, sir?
...and please don't make me watch a bunch of freaking Vikings' film to prove you wrong next time.
http://img.pandawhale.com/61111-DrCox-deal-with-it-gif-scrubs-XgR3.gif
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
A ball or two in a blowout would be nice. He 6th on the depth chart now? Diggs out and four WRs caught balls.
Otis
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Adam Theilen is too good. 
Norcalhoya
Footballguy
What's his value now in dynasty? Assuming he went 1.02 (or just thereafter) in most leagues. What 2017 pick would you give up to get him? E.g. 1.01, 1.02, 1.03? Obviously those picks haven't been determined yet, but just curious where people value him.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I get the whole, hes 21, not ready yet, nothings changed mantra, but for me his value has dropped some. Mainly because his risk has increased for me. I wouldnt throw in the towel on him or anything but if i could get Shepard or Thomas for him id pull the trigger. As far as next season, its a stronger class so id move him for a mid 1st but wouldnt buy him for more than a late 1st.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
FWIW Treadwells playing time did increase to 8 offensive snaps. He also had increased playing time on special teams with 6 snaps there. He was not targeted in the 8 snaps he had, but there should at least be something to look at, as far as where he lined up and what he did on those 8 plays.
I feel like even I have underestimated Adam Theilen. The Vikings used him on some double move routes right at the start of the game against the Texans best corner Joseph. Because Zimmer is familiar with Joseph, perhaps he knew something about him that caused them to think they might have success with these plays, which Theilen did, scoring the first TD and allowing the Vikings to play the entire game with a lead from that point.
The Vikings have had over 70 plays of offense the last 2 games and have extended long drives. Bradford still only threw the ball 30 times in this game and the Vikings had 37 rushing attempts.
I feel like even I have underestimated Adam Theilen. The Vikings used him on some double move routes right at the start of the game against the Texans best corner Joseph. Because Zimmer is familiar with Joseph, perhaps he knew something about him that caused them to think they might have success with these plays, which Theilen did, scoring the first TD and allowing the Vikings to play the entire game with a lead from that point.
The Vikings have had over 70 plays of offense the last 2 games and have extended long drives. Bradford still only threw the ball 30 times in this game and the Vikings had 37 rushing attempts.
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
Any Minn homers see any chance for this guy? Is he that bad or is it a mental thing? Or both... Like a lot of us, I took this bum in the first round of our rookie draft and he doesn't even seem to be heading in the right direction. Is he worth rostering in dynasty? Does he practice with the team? lol
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
So he's a 5-8 year project? lol I might drop this guy for Quincy Enunwa?.......
Biabreakable
Footballguy
If you have Treadwell in redraft you likely should have dumped him weeks ago.
I don't see him surpassing Patterson for playing time in the near future unless Patterson does something to lose the playing time he has earned. Treadwell could pass Charles Johnson in the pecking order if he practices well. That would be the next step for him.
If you are not in a dynasty league I have no idea why anyone would be looking for production from Treadwell at this point.
For 2017 it is unknown if Patterson is re-signed or not. I tend to think he will be, but it will come down to money. Possible he will find a new team. That would open up more opportunity for Treadwell next season. The long term outlook for Johnson and Wright does not look that good. Diggs and Theilen are ahead off all of the WR until proven otherwise.
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
Wether he was worth "rostering in dynasty" was at the heart of the question a couple posts before. Thanks for the insight on the situation, might be worth a stash but it is disconcerting when so many rookie wr's have jumped right in and produced the last couple of years. Except for Diggs there doesn't seem to be much there and still zilch- even with a QB who can throw it.
strong
Footballguy
his value has continued to tank. at this point if he ever becomes a reliable FF starter, he'd be in a class of his own as far as awful rookie seasons go...
no chance you're getting thomas or shephard for him. he's probably somewhere around dyno WR6-10 in this class now as far as trade value goes. if you can trade him for someone in that range, probably a good idea to go and at least get some kid who has managed to have the ball thrown his way at least once... woof.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
Norv Turner Says Treadwell Will Be A Factor This Season
Treadwell had some great blocks in the limited playing time he had in the most recent game, helping the Vikings return a second punt for a TD.
Treadwell had some great blocks in the limited playing time he had in the most recent game, helping the Vikings return a second punt for a TD.
If you listen to the clip you also hear Norv mention that they have other WR who are playing well right now so they haven't needed to rush him into playing time.
I think people got spoiled by the 2014 class(which might be an all-timer at WR) and the 2011 class which instantly had 2 studs. WR's don't typically do much as rookies. Just among 1st round draft picks since 2000, the following guys did next to nothing as rookies and had multiple top-10 seasons.
Plaxico Burress(22-273-0), Reggie Wayne(27-345-0), Santana Moss(2-40-0), Javon Walker(23-319-1), Roddy White(29-446-3) and Demaryius Thomas(22-282-2).
Its obviously a disappointment Treadwell hasn't done more to start his career, but it is far too early to consider him a bust for his career. To be honest, despite his superior numbers/playing time, I've seen nothing from say, Sterling Shepard, to think he's a better long term option than Treadwell, or Doctson for that matter.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
strong
Footballguy
nobody is calling him a bust. i hope he blows up and becomes a pro bowler. i'm just pointing out that he's in rare territory, as shown by the fact that you have to go back over a decade to find high drafted receivers who sat on the sidelines this deep into a season and who went on to do something. the only guy of that batch who's rookie year was in the last ten years, d thomas, was actually injured but once he was active he saw playing time and targets.
and it's not really the lack of production that stands out at this point. it's the lack of snaps this deep into the season that make it tough to find favorable comparisons for treadwell.
if you don't care about historical comps or you think his coach makes his situation completely unique, then we won't agree on the importance of that point.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
With Cordarralle Patterson still not practicing because of a concussion I think this opens up more playing time for Treadwell against the Bears.
Jarius Wright was limited in practice on Friday as well. There is another practice on Saturday that I suppose could still change things.
If neither of these two are available on Monday then you have Diggs and Theilen, Charles Johnson or Laquon Treadwell as the 3rd and 4th WRs.
Charles Johnson has been being phased out of the offense recently in favor of Patterson. So possible his playing time will increase with the absence of Patterson. Or the Vikings could play Treadwell more, if he is indeed ready now. Norv Turner has said he has been playing well in practice recently although that has not translated into any targets yet.
Treadwell did have a thumb injury that may have set him back somewhat recently, but he practiced in full the last two days so he should be healthy enough to go.
I listened to a press conference with Treadwell and he seems very quiet. I would like to see more energy, more confidence than he showed in the interview, but I think his personality has always been somewhat low key.
These things are lining up for more playing time and I think the Vikings could use a spark on offense that maybe he could provide.
Jarius Wright was limited in practice on Friday as well. There is another practice on Saturday that I suppose could still change things.
If neither of these two are available on Monday then you have Diggs and Theilen, Charles Johnson or Laquon Treadwell as the 3rd and 4th WRs.
Charles Johnson has been being phased out of the offense recently in favor of Patterson. So possible his playing time will increase with the absence of Patterson. Or the Vikings could play Treadwell more, if he is indeed ready now. Norv Turner has said he has been playing well in practice recently although that has not translated into any targets yet.
Treadwell did have a thumb injury that may have set him back somewhat recently, but he practiced in full the last two days so he should be healthy enough to go.
I listened to a press conference with Treadwell and he seems very quiet. I would like to see more energy, more confidence than he showed in the interview, but I think his personality has always been somewhat low key.
These things are lining up for more playing time and I think the Vikings could use a spark on offense that maybe he could provide.
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georg013
Footballguy
Can't believe some of you ar still acting like nothing is wrong. Take off the rose colored glasses and see this thing for what it is. He has made zero impact on this team. He was drafted in the first round. There is no excuse for this. Period. As far as I'm concerned, he is a bust.
boilerdave
Footballguy
Well there you have it. 6 games into his career on a 5-1 team (so how much of an impact do the Vikes need him to make) is a bust...drop him dynasty owners.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Patterson practiced today so if he plays that closes some of the potential for playing time for Treadwell that might be there if he were/is out.
CabinFever
Footballguy
I had an owner in one of my leagues who offered me Booker and Doug Martin for him (PPR Dynasty) but when news of Anderson going on IR he changed his mind. He's got to be a hold at this point.
