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WR Laquon Treadwell, Free Agent (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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strong
Footballguy
definitely with you about the old days. the league has become pretty pass heavy and it's been a while since a receiver sat this much to start and went on to do much. times have changed.
looked for this thread to see if anyone has moved him lately. then i checked out tweets @dynastytrades on twitter and his value isn't completely tanked, but his value is probably a 2017 2nd which is pretty discouraging for a guy most people picked in the top three three months ago. most dyno players would rather have a late 2017 1st than him. https://twitter.com/search?q=treadwell dynastytrades&src=typd
i'm a treadwell owner, don't wanna sell low, but would have accepted this trade in a heartbeat:
Hankmoody
Footballguy
While I kind of agree, the prep and college games are producing much more prepared guys, both physically and game-mentally, than they did in the old days of fantasy. The concern here should be > 0 at this point. The issue is how much greater. I also don't think it's panic time. I have one share of Treadwell and would sell him for a random 2017 1st in a 12 man league but I would have been pretty close to that on draft day last year too. I would easily give a late 2nd for him though, and probably any 2nd with this much time left in the season. So while I think it's absurd to write the guy off, he's definitely lost some of that new car smell.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
While I would say WR are producing more earlier in their careers on average recently than they have in the past, I do think this perception is affected by the excellent WR class of 2014. I would need to see more evidence of rookie WR performing well from outside of this draft class to be sure this is an overall trend and not just a recent one.
The Vikings are not an average or above average passing offense. Although the Vikings are throwing the ball a lot more than they did last season, or several seasons before that going back to 2009, the Vikings are currently 26th in the NFL in total passing attempts. So comparing the opportunity for receivers in the NFL to what the Vikings are doing isn't a fair comparison. If you expect that then you just have not been paying attention to the team Treadwell plays for.
Treadwell is one of the youngest rookie WR to come out recently and likely over a very long time frame if anyone wants to look that up. It stands to reason he may need longer to earn playing time and a starting position because of that.
I have heard Mike Zimmer say that he wants Treadwell to play more in press conference prior to the Lions game. Norv Turner has had control of the offense for the most part before he quit.
WRs in the Lions game:
S Diggs WR 57 snaps 83% 14 targets 13 receptions 80 yards
C Patterson WR 40 snaps 58% 8 targets 6 receptions 45 yards
A Thielen WR 35 snaps 51% 6 targets 4 receptions 68 yards
C Johnson WR 22 snaps 32% 3 targets 1 reception 9 yards
L Treadwell WR 17 snaps 25% 1 target 1 reception 15 yards
Obviously Diggs had a really high number of targets. Patterson actually had more snaps and targets than Adam Thielen showing that his role continues to grow. Thielen has been getting more playing time than Patterson for the most part before this game.
Adam Thielen is actually pretty good.
Charles Johnson continues to not do much on the field. His snaps have been declining and this is the main opening for Treadwell to gain more playing time. The other 3 WR will still be ahead of him for the most part though.
Treadwell actually played on 25% of the offensive plays in the most recent game, his most thus far this season. So that is evidence that they are starting to work him into the game plan now.
The Vikings are not an average or above average passing offense. Although the Vikings are throwing the ball a lot more than they did last season, or several seasons before that going back to 2009, the Vikings are currently 26th in the NFL in total passing attempts. So comparing the opportunity for receivers in the NFL to what the Vikings are doing isn't a fair comparison. If you expect that then you just have not been paying attention to the team Treadwell plays for.
Treadwell is one of the youngest rookie WR to come out recently and likely over a very long time frame if anyone wants to look that up. It stands to reason he may need longer to earn playing time and a starting position because of that.
I have heard Mike Zimmer say that he wants Treadwell to play more in press conference prior to the Lions game. Norv Turner has had control of the offense for the most part before he quit.
WRs in the Lions game:
S Diggs WR 57 snaps 83% 14 targets 13 receptions 80 yards
C Patterson WR 40 snaps 58% 8 targets 6 receptions 45 yards
A Thielen WR 35 snaps 51% 6 targets 4 receptions 68 yards
C Johnson WR 22 snaps 32% 3 targets 1 reception 9 yards
L Treadwell WR 17 snaps 25% 1 target 1 reception 15 yards
Obviously Diggs had a really high number of targets. Patterson actually had more snaps and targets than Adam Thielen showing that his role continues to grow. Thielen has been getting more playing time than Patterson for the most part before this game.
Adam Thielen is actually pretty good.
Charles Johnson continues to not do much on the field. His snaps have been declining and this is the main opening for Treadwell to gain more playing time. The other 3 WR will still be ahead of him for the most part though.
Treadwell actually played on 25% of the offensive plays in the most recent game, his most thus far this season. So that is evidence that they are starting to work him into the game plan now.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Shurmur: Have To Be Better In Critical Situations
At 2:13 he is asked about Treadwell.
"Just like any young player, you get them in there and see what they can do. You gradually give them more and more, hopefully, (
) as long as the game plan calls for it.
I know that earlier on in the season Zimmer said Treadwell needed to work on his routes, the route depth and the timing of them, learning the plays and how to run them precisely. So you can't put all the blame on Norv for not doing what Pat Shurmur describes earlier this season.
I still think the massive transition to Bradford had an effect here too. I don't think they wanted to be working in a rookie WR at the same time as you are playing with a completely new QB.
At 2:13 he is asked about Treadwell.
"Just like any young player, you get them in there and see what they can do. You gradually give them more and more, hopefully, (
) as long as the game plan calls for it.I know that earlier on in the season Zimmer said Treadwell needed to work on his routes, the route depth and the timing of them, learning the plays and how to run them precisely. So you can't put all the blame on Norv for not doing what Pat Shurmur describes earlier this season.
I still think the massive transition to Bradford had an effect here too. I don't think they wanted to be working in a rookie WR at the same time as you are playing with a completely new QB.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Hamstring injury and Treadwell is inactive for this weeks game.
tombonneau
Footballguy
Just acquired s/u for Christine Michael. Didn't take long for him to accept either. Haven't been following him much but am not really holding out much hope. Really was more of a desperate play to unload Michael for anything of value.
As I haven't been following, what's the quick summary on Treadwell's 2016 debacle? Early injuries or just can't learn the playbook/run routes? Both?
georg013
Footballguy
Did they handle Diggs with kid gloves his rookie year? Diggs was drafted in the 5th round by the same team that is breast feeding Treadwell along. Yeah, the good old days right? Nothing to see here.... SMH at all the enabling in here. Why can't we get some of you to post in the Robert Kelley thread. He could use a little positive delusion.
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tombonneau
Footballguy
Good news. He was on the field and saw targets including big third down play. Bad news is he can't run the right routes on big third down plays. My guess is healthy scratch next week.
Looks the part in his uni at least.
Looks the part in his uni at least.
scott46984
Footballguy
Gonna be a project.....he'll learn and still think he will be a good one, but it will take some time.
massraider
Footballguy
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Yes.
This was Matt Harmon's baby, and he was Dez/Anquan comparisons, who used his body like a savvy vet, and how dare anyone ask about his lack of foot speed as a potential problem because if you did you didn't understand how football actually worked.
We were not told he was a guy that was so raw, he wouldn't be able to get on the field till he learned how to run routes. The Vikings already have that guy on the team, Cordarelle. There was a guy labeled as raw. He still hasn't learned how to play WR, and yet he and Charles ''I had potential three years ago'' and Adam ''the one white WR not on the Patriots'' Thielen are both beating him out for snaps.
I thought he might be like a Crabtree-type, best case scenario.
Someone dropped him in a keeper league, so I picked him up, and looking around on this guy, is there any hope other than ''he's a rookie, he can develop''?
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I guess I remember it differently. I remember reading that since he was only 20 years old at draft time that it would take a while for him to catch on. That the best hope for early returns would be as a big body in the red zone.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
This is fair and pretty funny.
I think this comes back to Treadwell being such a highly graded prospect out of high school, a reasonably decent college career (although there was reason to question this) and people had been saying he was going to be great for so long. That was their story and they were sticking with it, regardless of what they saw of his play.
I am guilty of buying into this group think as well. While I did like what I saw from Treadwell from a perspective of his strength and excellent blocking, I honestly did not see him getting a lot of separation on his routes and he seemed to get by on being able to win contested catches. You get to see a lot of that, because a lot of targets to him where he is not open.
I know I read Harmon and dome others denying this, saying that he gets good separation and gets open consistently, and for the most part I took their word for it, but I did not really see that from the cut ups I watched. HIs routes did not show refinement or timing and they still are not showing that so far with the Vikings either. We don't see the practices like the coaches do.
He is still very young and could still develop into a great player eventually, but he seems far away from realizing that potential right now.
While the NFL teams scouting departments make mistakes all the time, they do have more information than we do and Treadwell was the last of the 4 1st round WR taken.
This offseason I am going to do my best to not listen to other people at all and just watch for myself based off of ZWKs lists.
Braktastic
Footballguy
First of all,
. Although now I'm having a mental image of Jordy Nelson siting there like this: 
Originally, I read that as "Someone dropped him in a dynasty league..." and it blew my mind because you would have had to have used a top-4 pick on him to get him on your squad in most cases. As to your question, I would have to ask how many can you keep, for how long, and what would you have to give up before answering.
In dynasty leagues I've been kicking around the idea of offering a 2nd round pick for him, but I honestly don't know that I want to do that. Additionally, I feel like most owners would rather go down with the ship at this point. I don't see him moving around much. Although if we're still having this discussion after year three, I think he's toast.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I took him at #2 and I'd probably take a 2nd rounder for him.
I thought he'd be a good TD guy at least, with Diggs being the between the 20s guy.
By the Vikings offense looks a LONG way from being good.
I thought he'd be a good TD guy at least, with Diggs being the between the 20s guy.
By the Vikings offense looks a LONG way from being good.
massraider
Footballguy
It's an odd format. Keep 5, and give up corresponding draft pick. Right now, he is a longshot for me to keep, but is worth a roster spot just based on draft pedigree.
To be clear, my stance on Treadwell is not that he's a bum, and toss this 21 year old kid out. I'm not a hater. I would say that during the pre-draft process, I kept thinking, 'well hang on a second here, speed matters some, doesn't it??'
It's a good point that someone said about his age, and we are 12 games in or whatever, and things can change quick. Young players still develop, being a 1st rounder doesn't mean if he isn't killing it right away that he's never going to develop.
I think the most underrated part of a receivers game, which doesn't get enough attention, is work ethic. There are better athletes than Antonio Brown that don't make it, and worse athletes than Treadwell that kill it, and I have a belief that working at their craft, and taking care of their body is a major part of NFL success for WRs.
I could easily see a situation where Treadwell came in as a kid, wasn't ready for the NFL game, and turns it around, quickly. We are actually seeing this with DeVante Parker. Stories that he didn't know how to eat, and on and on, and once he got healthy, he was a weapon.
The tough part is, I don't know what the reasons are for the slow start. Is it lack of preperation, just a kid that needs to mature? That's not the end of the world. If so, how do we know that he has the work ethic to take the next step? A guy that runs a 4.63, after training to run that exact sprint for weeks, needs to outwork the competition to be a success, IMO.
Whether you are a believer or not, the fact that him just get getting offensive snaps, let alone targets is very, very concerning.
Braktastic
Footballguy
Agreed. Somewhere I heard someone saying something about Zimmer not being big on playing rookies as a defense of Treadwell, but I have to think that if the Vikings thought he could make their offense better he'd be out there more because it is a dumpster fire outside of Diggs and McKinnon in full PPR.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
He was insane when he made the selection. The results shouldn't be making him more insane.
Insanity goes away when the boarder between delusion and reality is destroyed. There is a list of things that someone had to think to make that move:
- WRs have longer careers than RBs
- NFL is now a passing league
- Teddy Bridgewater is the future
- When Romo gets hurt defenses will key on the run
- Insert more
CabinFever
Footballguy
The fact that I took him over Doctson, Thomas, Henry, Shepard, and even Dixon makes me sick. Bought into the hype even though I knew the Vikings weren't exactly the ideal passing offense.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Vikings fans who thought they were getting a pro-ready possession receiver with YAC and redzone chops must be livid that they took Treadwell over Michael Thomas, right? I know as a Skins fan robbed of Doctson's rookie year I'm peeved Thomas wasn't the pick despite Doctson's upside.
Especially in a year that was so strongly considered a win now year in Minnesota that they dealt a 1st for Bradford to stay in their championship window, it's gotta be miserable watching the guy in New Orleans with the hands, route running chops, and NFL bloodlines kill it as a rookie right from the jump.
Especially in a year that was so strongly considered a win now year in Minnesota that they dealt a 1st for Bradford to stay in their championship window, it's gotta be miserable watching the guy in New Orleans with the hands, route running chops, and NFL bloodlines kill it as a rookie right from the jump.
Otis
Footballguy
He's the guy I regret. I had a bunch of early picks this year. Thankfully just before the draft I decided I'd take Henry at 2 and let others figure out the WR situation for me. Coleman went, as did Doctson, and as much as I loved Thomas, Treadwell just felt like a no-brainer value at 5, and there was a chance Thomas would slip to my next pick.
So yeah, taking Treadwell over Thomas right now is looking pretty terrible. I wonder if it's just a Minnesota thing--have to believe he'd have been playing all year anywhere else.
DropKick
Footballguy
Agreed; He's probably tanking for the #1 pick so all is right in his world.
As for Treadwell - initial hype was best WR in the class. This gradually shifted to one of three top WRs that could go in any order BEHIND Elliott. Concerns about his lack of speed were raised and come our draft time (early September), I had move Shepard and Thomas ahead of Laquon. Both were in better situations and Treadwell had recently lost Bridgewater. Treadwell dropped to the 3rd or 4th round as I guess my league mates were pretty gun shy about him in a run first offense with no QB.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Tell me about it. Not only was I sky high on Thomas already (had him #3), but I had an offer to move down from 1.02 to 1.07 and add 2.04. I didn't think Thomas would still be there and no one else in my projection excited me so I passed. Thomas, of course, was there.
eNdblu
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Can't find a single ray of sunshine over his rookie year. I was high on him coming in as well. Be lucky to get a high second for him at this point. Nobodys giving up a first. Hes a hold for most people.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
tombonneau
Footballguy
Comment section of that article is quite the entertaining cesspool. About what I thought a bunch of ESPN radio listeners would sound like on the internet.
ETA: Sorry for double quote. Blame funky Chrome caching.
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Hankmoody
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
What are the Prospects for Laquon Treadwell?
I just wanted to note that today I was listening to Daniel Jerimiah talk with Wobby about who he would take at pick 48 for the Vikings and his suggestion was Zay Zones, despite how much DJ liked Treadwell as a prospect last season.
I just wanted to note that today I was listening to Daniel Jerimiah talk with Wobby about who he would take at pick 48 for the Vikings and his suggestion was Zay Zones, despite how much DJ liked Treadwell as a prospect last season.
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Doom & Gloom from the regression analysis performed here. With a touch of, "Hey, the sample size *is probably not* big enough."
If you drafted Treadwell... like I did... you're probably looking at Cordarrelle Patterson all over again in terms of production. Yes, I understand that they were very different players with very different strengths and weaknesses, but this article really takes a dump all over Treadwell's stock if you have any experience with advanced statistics and regression analysis.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I dont have any lipstick to put on this pig except that I would love to see Treadwell prove all the tea leaves wrong.
I'd say there's a near zero chance the Vikings take a WR in round 2 this year. That's their first pick, and they have far too many holes to plug to go that route IMO.
I'm torn on whether Treadwell puts it together, but I think he's afforded this year to prove whether or not he can.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree.
I would just assume DJ is also aware of this, yet he suggests Zay Jones anyways. From what I have seen of Zones, he would fill a similar role that I see Treadwell having in the offense.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Love it, totally stealing it even if it is a typo. Now to go find some threads on topic so I can drop this in them.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yeah it was typo at first, but I liked it enough that I left it alone. Good nick name for him I think.
tombonneau
Footballguy
So you're saying there's a chance?
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Ran with first team in may, nothing to see here. Who will he unseat? Theilen is good, works hard, and is probably underrated. Diggs is also a good wr, and while neither is going to be wr1 of the league, treadwell lacks the explosion and top end speed to make me think he can be either. He is young though, so he could still develop, but I'm not holding my breath.
