The Frankman
Footballguy
I counted at least 4 #MecoleMestakes
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WR Mecole Hardman, GB (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Interseptopus
- Start date
The Frankman
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Snorkelson
Footballguy
There was no trade market for hardman, if you want to move him this is the window. If you want to buy him I’d do it after they draft a wr (assuming they do).
matuski
Footballguy
habsfan
Footballguy
I would rather he shined by being on the roster for three seasons as opposed to benefitting from attrition.
joey
Footballguy
Maybe this is a case of both factors working in his favor. A confluence of luck meets skill meets opportunity.
signed,
hopeful Hardman owner in one dynasty league
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Probably right, although those that have held might as well see what comes of it.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Sure, and that’s fair. I think it’s also fair to look at his progression through 3 years as steadily trending up in targets, and now we have the top option gone, Pringle is gone, and Robinson is gone. That is a whopping 260 targets from one of the best qbs in the league that have to go somewhere. KC isn’t done adding to the wr room, so we’ll see.
Hardman is the only wr on the roster who has played in the system for a few years. He had 83 targets last year. I think it’s reasonable to expect more, not less, the question is how much? Does juju step in and get 150 targets, or will the ball be spread around a bit more?
I think it’s reasonable to hope for 120 targets. 78/940/5. That’s decent, but wait! He had 8 rushes last year, but then carried the ball 6 times in 3 playoff games! Was that an aberration or will they use him like that in the future? Hill also had 9 carries. So let’s pencil him in for around 10/60 and make it a nice round 1000 total yards. I feel like those are reasonable to conservative projections. It’s assuming 6% less on catch rate and a conservative 12 ypc (2 yds less than his career 14.2) and adding 37 targets.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Agree 100%.
There's been talk around here for the last couple of offseasons that Mahomes has invited Hardman to work out in the offseason on passing and receiving drills to develop chemistry. Much like he does with Kelce and Hill previously. And Hardman has not taken advantage of that.
Hardman will never be more than what he is now.
joey
Footballguy
joey
Footballguy
Funny how fantasy football can pull you in opposite directions.
(A post about me
)I’m in 2 FFPC dynasty leagues where you keep only 16 players. Hardman is my 16th keeper in one and Shenault is my 16th in another. So half o me is happy about the Hill trade for my Hardman team, and half of me is excited about the prospect Shenault going to KC. I guess the most optimistic version is that one of my 2 teams will hopefully have a key piece of the KC a passing game this year.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Man, that sums of fantasy football in a nutshell.Funny how fantasy football can pull you in opposite directions.
(A post about me
I’m in 2 FFPC dynasty leagues where you keep only 16 players. Hardman is my 16th keeper in one and Shenault is my 16th in another. So half o me is happy about the Hill trade for my Hardman team, and half of me is excited about the prospect Shenault going to KC. I guess the most optimistic version is that one of my 2 teams will hopefully have a key piece of the KC a passing game this year.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
Heading into my first ever rookie draft in dynasty- I just read the first page of this thread and wow, he was being discussed as a first round pick? FFCalculator has him at the 2.05 and thankfully behind Metcalf, AJB, Deebo and Marquise Brown. The ADP list of the WRs that year is just mind blowing with Renfrow 3.09, McLaurin 3.04, Dionte 2.11, Deebo 1.11, Metcalf and AJB 1.06, 1.05 but HOLY CRAP N'Keal Harry at 1.05.
I haven't scouted Hardman but with his speed, it's wild he hasn't been able to take advantage of the situation at all. Always seemed like he should have been able to and never was able to surpass Pringle or Robinson on the depth chart.
What is it that he doesn't do well?
I haven't scouted Hardman but with his speed, it's wild he hasn't been able to take advantage of the situation at all. Always seemed like he should have been able to and never was able to surpass Pringle or Robinson on the depth chart.
What is it that he doesn't do well?
Man, I do find that bit of information a bit jarring as a Hardman owner. If that is the case, one has to wonder why he would decline. Either way, exactly the kind of thing that will keep me from getting too excited about his potential this year.
habsfan
Footballguy
I think Shenault is a very curious project to take on when you need to replace Hill in aggregate. They could unlock a lot of potential or end up with an underperforming group of misfits.
It was crazy at the time that Hardman and Harry were going that highly. I think it was entirely Mahomes/Brady related. That draft is another in a long line of reasons to bet on talent over situation. Guys like McLaurin and Diontae were both clearly better prospects than Hardman, even at the time.
Hardman was an extremely raw prospect who started his college career at CB. Hardman has made small improvements each season of his career. That said, he hasn't shown anything to suggest he's going to suddenly be a #1 WR. I do think him being stuck behind Pringle/Robinson, was more about his similarity to Hill and value on special teams. He's a better WR than either of those guys.
Shenault is interesting, because his strengths are his YAC and his versatility. He's someone on the Patterson-Poor man's Deebo scale in my opinion, but the Jags seemed to just stick him in the slot and be done with it, which was a bad idea, because route running isn't his strength. Reid would likely be a lot more creative.
I wonder if KC is looking to just change their offense overall, and aren't necessarily interested in replacing Hill's role at all. Between last year's investment in the OL, and bringing in a slot guy like JuJu, and now inquiring about Shenault, I wonder if they are maybe looking to become a more move the chains style offense, than a bombs away offense.
Boone22
Footballguy
Well that might make sense if you think about how defenses adjusted to Mahomes last year. Maybe Reid is saying, OK, if you are going to take away our big play deep ball we’ll trade away our deep threat and go with a short passing game. But they still have Hardman’s speed to take the top off a defense and keep defenses honest.
personally, I think as long as Mahomes learns more patience, he could thrive in either system.
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Shenault's an odd one to me for the Chiefs now that they have JuJu. Both big possession slots. I feel like if you try and put Shenault on the outside you'd just be mis-using him again. The situation in Jax was not good for anyone last year but I bought into false hype in off-season that Laviska had ability to be a legit outside WR and I'm not seeing it. He can be a really good big slot and weapon but I'm just not seeing him do things as an outside WR with any kind of consistency.
As for the Chiefs playing more slow methodical ball. I get the personnel moves give off that vibe but IMO when teams have forced Mahomes to go underneath the shell coverage he looks bored and at times a tad frustrated. So personnel moves aside, I don't think it's the kind of offense he wants to run.
As for the Chiefs playing more slow methodical ball. I get the personnel moves give off that vibe but IMO when teams have forced Mahomes to go underneath the shell coverage he looks bored and at times a tad frustrated. So personnel moves aside, I don't think it's the kind of offense he wants to run.
I think Shenault can play outside, and think him being used as a big slot, was mostly Jags incompetence. It may be an extreme opinion, but I'm kind of ok just pretending 2021 didn't exist in regard to judging Jags players. That was the worst coached team in NFL history.
Shenault actually was better outside than inside as a rookie. I also could see him in the backfield a lot, as he's a better runner with the ball in his hands than anybody other than maybe Kelce on the Chiefs roster right now. Somebody like Reid is smart enough to use a player like that in ways to succeed as opposed to just hoping something might work.
I think something like, Hardman and a 1st round rookie outside, JuJu inside, and Shenault as a swiss army knife, could be a pretty effective group for Mahomes, especially as defenses likely increase their focus a ton more on Kelce.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Shenault joining the Chiefs makes me think they're more likely to be going non-traditional, highly creative and unpredictable offensively. To try and fill the Tyreek void like for like is a fools errand.
It does make sense to mix it up and build something new/different rather than try to, in all likelihood futilely, plug someone vastly inferior into the Hill role.
It does make sense to mix it up and build something new/different rather than try to, in all likelihood futilely, plug someone vastly inferior into the Hill role.
joey
Footballguy
now with KC signing MVS, half of me is happy for Hardman and the other half is sad about lost potential for Shenault.Man, that sums of fantasy football in a nutshell.
onward!
Possible hot take: This MVS(for 10 mill) move is worse than the Jags giving Kirk 18. At least Kirk is decent, MVS sucks. I'd much rather have a day 2 rookie than him, the guy couldn't produce with Aaron Rodgers, and every chance to emerge as the #2 in Green Bay.
As someone who drafted all 3 guys, seems benefit of hindsight to say those guys were clearly more talented at the time. A lot of people thought Hardman was a need reach by KC with Tyreek likely getting suspended but those two also fell to the 3rd round of the NFL draft for reasons too. Mclaurin was hardly a stud at Ohio and never caught more than 35 balls in a season. He was old for a rookie but put up good combine measurables. Many speculated Kelvin Harmon was the guy to own in Wash despite him dropping like a stone to the 6h round. I recall most McL draft comments were “at least he has a connection with Haskins.” Diontae was a small school prospect who bombed at the combine. He flew completely under the radar until the Steelers picked him. He didn’t even have a prospect thread on here until after the draft.
Hardman was overdrafted because everyone thought Tyreek was going to get kicked out of the league. He wasn’t cleared of the child abuse allegations and given no suspension until late July just before training camp but well after the NFL draft and many rookie drafts. Mahomes had just come off setting the league on fire with a 5,000 yard and 50 TD passing season his very first year starting. Hardman had 4.33 speed and looked like the Tyreek replacement but once Tyreek was cleared and back, Hardman became completely redundant on the KC offense. Since then he hasn’t been able to carve out much of a role besides special teams, not too mention Mahomes seems to have a tendency to only look onto Tyreek and Kelce.
Does he take advantage now? Seeing posts about his poor work ethic in here has me a bit worried that’s why he’s always disappointed. I don’t think anyone expects him to finally step up even with no Tyreek blocking him.
Not really hindsight, but I was remembering my own draft rankings from that year, and Hardman was well behind McLaurin and Johnson. Not to make it sound like I'm some genius who gets everything right, as I had Isabella ahead of all 3.
Hardman has honestly been better pro than I expected him to be so far. I think he's a better WR than MVS, who KC just threw a 3-30 deal at. He's arguably better than JuJu too, but I've always felt he was overrated.
Mahomes has to throw to somebody, if by some stretch of logic, KC decides that bringing in JuJu and MVS is enough, I think Hardman might be the best WR on the team, for their sake I hope they draft somebody, because I'm not sure I'd want any of those guys as my #2 WR, let alone #1.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
This guy has been the definition of a “roster clogger” since his second season really - but once more he’ll get his chances to show something.
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
I was generously offered Hardman, 2023 2nd, 2023 3rd for my R. Moore, 1.04, 2023 1st (early).
I told him it seemed to cheap for me to steal Hardman for that price.
I told him it seemed to cheap for me to steal Hardman for that price.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
One bad enough to be carted off is very not good.
Often requires surgery. Not predicting, just saying what I know about groin injuries.
Even mild ones have an annoying tendency of being nagging.
Plus any time he misses = more reps for Moore & MVS to make inroads.
Bad injury, bad timing. I’m avoiding Hardman in redraft.
joey
Footballguy
Agreed. At least he has the allure of hope, upside and potential, whereas Hardman, Juju and others we have already seen either disappointment and/or enough ups and downs to give pause.
i only roster Hardman in 1 FFPC league and he’s at the teetering edge of the bench as pre-week 1 cut downs approach.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
IMO Hardman is basically a slower John Ross but with Mahomes at QB. Guys like this belong in the league but more as a return guy or gadget player not a WR1/2. For me the biggest knock is they play small while similarly sized WR like Tyreek Hill play big, even though they all have elite speed. They are more athletes than football players.
MVS is also more or less a one trick pony but he presents a similar speed profile and he's 6'4". MVS > Hardman
MVS is also more or less a one trick pony but he presents a similar speed profile and he's 6'4". MVS > Hardman
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