Yards vrs TD (1 Viewer)

[StuntMonkee]

I am having a discussion in one of my leagues, and I have an Owner that is upset with the way I have the scoring set up in that league. That league is set up so that the higher the yards a player gets, the more the points they get per yard. Its in tiers, so a QB gets .5 points up to 300 yards, then 1 point after 300, 1.5 after 350 and 2 after 400.

That gave Big Ben 360 points for this weeks game, and naturaly this guy had to play against him and he lost becuase of it. . .and argued that Manning should have outscored Big Ben this week performance wise, so I decided to break it down.

Take note that this is only the 3rd time in Steelers history that they have had a QB throw for over 400 yards. . . .Damon Huard threw for 3td's does that make him a Peyton Manning QB? The only way to make Bens game seem less stellar than it was, would be to deduct for INT's. . . .but I think throwing for that many yards is equally as impressive as throwing for 3 TD's. If Throwing for multi TD's is more impressive than throwing for a single, then TD's should increase in points as well. . . .Also, Yards are normally accompanied by TD's. . . .suggesting that if Ben had also thrown for 3td's that he should have been scored higher.

Look at how often a player has thrown for over 300, 350 or even 400 yards? Now compare that to how many times a QB has thrown for 3 td's in a game. . . .I think you will notice that the 400 yards is much much much more rare than a 3td game.

That is why some players are only good FF players and others are only good FF, and some are both. . . .Favre is a great example of this. . . .

Typically Ben is the opposite. . .good for his team, but a bad FF player. . .

I was curious about 400 yard vrs 3td games.

Not including this week. . .lets look at the top 5 qb's in the league

D. Mcnabb

2 games with 3td

2 games with 300 yards

2 games with 350 yards

0 games with over 400 yards

P. Manning

2 games with 3td

2 games with 300 yards

0 games with 350 yards

1 games with over 400 yards

M. Vick (rushing qb)

1 games with 3td (1 with 4)

0 games with 300 yards

0 games with 350 yards

0 games with over 400 yards

M. Bulger

2 games with 3td

3 games with 300 yards

1 games with 350 yards

0 games with over 400 yards

D. Brees

2 games with 3td

1 games with 300 yards

2 games with 350 yards

0 games with over 400 yards

Al Bundy

1 Game with 400 yards and 4tds! (not included)

So with 8 weeks, the top 5 qb's have thrown

(9) 3td games, (8) 300 yard games, (5) 350 yard games and only (1) 400 yard game!

I might be in the minority here, but 430 yards is fairly impressive.

What do you guys think?

 

[SSOG]

I think your league's scoring rules are incredibly wacky. You basically reward QBs whose teams are getting blown out, and so they hoist a ridiculous number of pass attempts.

According to your scoring system, Joey Harrington had an awesome day against Green Bay when he threw for 2 TDs and 414 yards. Of course, he also attempted SIXTY TWO passes, more than Dan Marino ever attempted in a single game, and he turned the ball over 3 times to boot. Also, according to your system, probably the best game by a QB in the last 20 years was the game against Atlanta where Plummer threw 55 times for 499 yards and 4 TDs. The problem was that the only reason he attempted so many passes is because Denver was getting absolutely destroyed, and he also threw 3 INTs, too (which was one of the REASONS why Denver was getting absolutely destroyed).

I understand that, at some level, you have to award for the yards... but awarding on an increasing scale just results in some wacky weeks where a QB gets blown out and absolutely sucks egg all game but posts huge fantasy numbers because basically the entire game is garbage time. If you're going to give that accelerating point bonus for yardage, I'd strongly recommend penalizing for number of attempts to sort of try to keep everything in balance. If a QB throws 70 times, he's going to put up some ridiculous fantasy numbers, no matter what. Doesn't mean he had a good game, though.

For the record, Big Ben was pretty bad against Denver this week. He was clearly forcing and trying to do too much. His big plays don't come close to offsetting his huge mistakes.

If your stated goal is to reward Fantasy Players as much as you can for actual contributions to an actual NFL team, I'd penalize for attempts and reward for yards. If your goal is just to have a scoring system for the heck of it, then it really doesn't matter WHAT your scoring system is, as long as everyone is aware of it. You could give points for interceptions if you really wanted to, and it wouldn't make any difference since everyone knew the rules beforehand.

 

[Marc Levin]

Big yards shoudl translate into sufficient TDs to make the player really valuable - and consistent.

If the yards are high and the TDs are low, the player can still be consistent, but could be conisistently in the 10 point range instead of the 20+ stud range.

There is also something to examine re: why there are so many yards being generated and so few TDs.

TDs only = most inconsistent FF player. TDs are crucial m but w/o yards, the player tendsa to have very spotty performances - the classic examples are Bubba Franks, Mark Boerighter and, to some extent, Pinkston. There are also the obvious GL vultures for RBs, who can be relatively consistent if they are consistently the GL back and the team they play for are consistently successful on offense.

But the tops = TD/Yards

 

[Marc Levin]

Depends on how you want your league's scoring to look - I think you have done as SSOG stated. I think you over-rewarded QBs forced into garbage time TDs.

A simple 3 point bonus over 300 yards would accomplish your purpose of rewarding big yardage games, esp. if you then reward another 2 points at 400 yards.

How do you score RB/WR yardage?

 

[StuntMonkee]

SSOG:

I agree, it does result in some rather wacky weeks for QB's and other positions. But thats rare that it happens that way. Which is why I thought looking into the stats of how many multi TD games vrs 400+ yard games occur.

To answer some of your other thoughts:

1. Yes the scoring has been set like this since the begining.

2. Not sure if it was a misunderstanding, but NO, I'm not looking to reward a player based on how well he "helps" his team. I look at it as FF players, not Football players. . . if FF was run that way, then the Patriots would be the #1 drafted team.

A. How many of us draft certain player due to the fact that they will be losing games and need garbage yards late in the game. Heck, why did Randy Moss have any yards last night? I think he was 3 for 31 untill the last minute of the game, when he caught another 3 for 45 yards! And how many of us drafted Favre for the same reason? Or what about drafting a RB on a team that uses ball control or should be leading most games.

b. Theres no way to predict flukes, but they do happen, and that's 1/2 the agony/fun of FF football. And the idea isnt to really reward players like Big Ben, Harrington, or as much Plummer. . .but I would imagine that typically Manning will have more high yardage games at the end of the season than any of those guys? But I think it adds value to other players as well. . .such as Favre, Trent Green & Collins a few years back. 4000 yards is nothing to scoff at, and should be rewarded.

MARC:

Passing

.5 for >300

1.0 for 301-350

1.5 for 351-400

2.0 for <401

TD's = 15points

Rec

1.0 for >100

1.5 for 101-150

2.0 for 151-200

2.5 for <201

TD's = 30 points

Rush

1.0 for >100

1.5 for 101-150

2.0 for 151-200

2.5 for <201

TD's = 30 points

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I think your league's scoring rules are incredibly wacky.

That's all that had to be said really.

 

[StuntMonkee]

Fantastic insight!

Anyway, I really don't know where the scoring started from, but thats the way it is. . . .I'm sure it had to do with wanting to shake thing up a little from the reg.

Besides, based on the voting, seems like everyone except for one values yardage at the very least, and thinks that players should be able to have a fantasy impact on either level.

I aggree. . .but I think yardage is more fun. . .keeps things moving and when your player gives you a ZERO, it's a real ZERO. . . .not just a lack of TD's.

 

[perry147]

I think your league's scoring rules are incredibly wacky.

That's all that had to be said really.

Well that and I would draft a QB from a team with a horrible defense like Kitna or maybe Farve.

 

[dparker713]

He's just basically got an extra zero on the end of his scoring. at 1 point per 20 yards you get 15 points for 300 yards, his system gives 150. Additionally, rush/rec TD are only worth 3 points and a passing TD 1.5.

On the whole, the biggest problem I have with your system is that you double the points for passing yards over 300, whereas a WR/RB needs to post over 150 before he gets an equal bonus. Also, while I think TDs are over-valued in the standard scoring system (a 1 yard TD plunge as important as a 61 yard bomb to the 1? I think not), the bonus system you have makes an already low TD bonus even less significant. Finally, not deducting for TOs is just kind of silly. Under your point system, Brady put up a not horrible 100 some odd points even though he threw 4 ints and had a horrible game.

 

[J-Rock]

I put more value on TD's than yds. If I'm an NFL GM I would rather have a guy throw for 2500 yards and 30 TD's than a guy who throws for 5000 yards and only 10 TDs.

You can move the ball up and down the field all you want, it's points on the scoreboard not yards from scrimmage that wins games.

 

[StuntMonkee]

He's just basically got an extra zero on the end of his scoring. at 1 point per 20 yards you get 15 points for 300 yards, his system gives 150. Additionally, rush/rec TD are only worth 3 points and a passing TD 1.5. On the whole, the biggest problem I have with your system is that you double the points for passing yards over 300, whereas a WR/RB needs to post over 150 before he gets an equal bonus. Also, while I think TDs are over-valued in the standard scoring system (a 1 yard TD plunge as important as a 61 yard bomb to the 1? I think not), the bonus system you have makes an already low TD bonus even less significant. Finally, not deducting for TOs is just kind of silly. Under your point system, Brady put up a not horrible 100 some odd points even though he threw 4 ints and had a horrible game.

I agree with this. . . .I was pushing for deductions for INT's, but was frowned upon. . . not a big deal to me.I also see your point with over 300 vrs over 100. . . .maybe next year it needs to be adjusted to over 350 yards instead of 300. I'll have to look into what is less common. . .a game over 300, or a game over 100? To me it seems like the 300+ games are not quite as often, but that could be a result of only 32 qb's a week, vrs, 128+ RB/WR playing? Which increases your odds of having a player break that number. . . .from that thought, the scoring might level itself slightly that way.