Zac Stacy vs Tre Mason (1 Viewer)

[ShaHBucks]

So basically this is a thread of Stacy owners vs Mason owners.

They are the ones most likely following this situation closely. I would think.

Ones most likely just trying to validate their player and not give their real thoughts or opinions. I would think.

Or, it could be the other way around. There is a slight, slight chance that people have bought into Stacy or Mason based on their observations rather than basing their observations on the fact that they own one or the other.

Slight.

I mean... that's typically how I do things in my dynasty leagues. I'll usually talk about guys that I'm either targeting in rookie drafts or already drafted. For example, I was seen a lot around the Keenan Allen, Andre Ellington, Davis Wilson Bandwagon threads last season. This season, you'll likely see me popping up in the Teddy Bridgewater & Ka'Deem Carey threads and possibly the Eric Ebron threads cause I somehow keep getting stuck with him as my BPA when I'm not a big fan. So yeah, in the case of Ebron, I'll probably be trying to talk him up just to justify a pick that I'm not all that fond of to myself

At this point of my FF career I'm pretty nutrual. After awhile you get numb to these decision and just rely on logic. Having biases loses me money. You end up owning all these guys anyway if your in enough leagues.

 

[Bob Magaw]

In the below article* the high school coach of Bettis states he was 230 lbs. as a Freshman or Sophomore. It also notes that while he was listed at 255 at the end of his career in PIT, he was probably closer to 275-280 lbs. Pro Football reference lists Stacy at 5'9" 216 lbs., but wikipedia and the Rams list him at 5'8" 224 lbs. Even if he is the latter weight, Bettis was still 50 lbs. or more bigger than Stacy, which would be about the difference between Stacy and Trindon Holliday (listed at 177 lbs.), one of the lightest players in the league.

Tomlinson is listed at 5'10" 221 lbs., his official 40 time was about a 4.46, but he clocked sub-4.4s, he was faster, and I think had more electric open field moves than Mason.

I think we can do better than Bettis or Tomlinson as comps.

* http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/30/AR2006013001564.html

I think I'll stick to more official sources that Wikipedia and Bettis' high school coach. Thanks though.

I didn't use wikipedia for Bettis, I used two other sources for Stacy. Two of which agreed with yours.

You say you are sticking to the official source, but you never listed the weight of Bettis, what do you think it is? What is the official source you are using? Weights are sometimes understated for fat players. Not to mention weight can fluctuate (especially with a player like Bettis), but "official" sources list just one weight, which may or may not have borne much semblance to Bettis' actual weight. DL "official weights" are notorious for being off by as much as 50 lbs. at times. Do you think Bettis was the same size throughout his career, that he didn't get bigger? Yet there is only one official weight, so it must be right. His weight must have been invariant throughout his career?

Obviously I'm aware that weight fluctuates a lot with players. But the only solid numbers we ever have to go by are what the team lists him at... Bettis was always listed between 251-255 everywhere. So I think I went with 255 cause that seems to be the consensus. But going off pure speculation of his high school coach watching him on a tube TV in his living room in the 90s is a little ridiculous.

Most players play at a weight different from their list. Just like most fighters fight at different than what they weigh in at. Pretty simple and accepted fact with all sports in general. But when crunching numbers we need hard facts not "Ehhh, he's listed at 252 but he looks huge I'll say he's 280 in reality". If a scale isn't telling me numbers I don't really care to believe it. I'll stick with the factual numbers, even if they weren't their 'true' playing weight. It's usually what they'd show up to camp/combine at, so that's good enough for me.

Ted Washington was listed for years at 350 lbs. but it was common knowledge that it was a nudge nudge wink wink, asterisk 350 lbs., and he played closer to 400 lbs. at times. If listings are even in the ball park, fine, but when they are grossly off it becomes problematic.

I don't think they had youtube when Bettis was in high school, but not sure why his coach would need it if he did. If he had dozens or hundreds of players that went on to play in the NFL at as high a level as Bettis, I could see how that might be hard to keep track of and the memories might all just sort of blur together, but if he was a singular talent and the best or one of the best players he ever had, not a stretch at all to find it reasonable and not logic-defying to think he would remember something like that. In the same article, Vinnie Cerrato, former WAS GM, who was then at Notre Dame, said he was about 240 lbs. at that time. So that is a second source that states Bettis was probably already bigger than Stacy in high school. Also in the article, a Steelers radio analyst, who was a former NFL lineman, had been weighed as a player, around other players that were weighed, must have had a good idea of what weight corresponds to what body type, and just from working with the team, would be in position to have connections and sources of information, stated he was nowhere close to 250 lbs. at times during his career. But maybe they are all wrong.

Team listings and press guides are one source of information. Another tool, which I think is going to revolutionize scouting, is this cutting edge apparatus that this consortium from back East called the vertebrates have been working on for about a half billion years, they are called EYE BALLS. I have a good feeling about them, I think they are going to catch on.

A fun game you could use them on, and it doesn't really even require an experienced football observer, let alone a trained professional scout, would be to show the below pictures of Bettis and Stacy to any bright, attentive toddler, and ask them which monster doesn't belong in the normal-sized human category.

Bettis (the later, circa pastrami-era)

http://cnnsi.com/vault/cover/featured/10235/index.htm

http://s294.photobucket.com/user/RsxSmokesYou/media/Steelers%20Collection/Steelers%20Memorabilia/JeromeBettisSportsIllustratedJan16t.jpg.html#/user/RsxSmokesYou/media/Steelers%20Collection/Steelers%20Memorabilia/JeromeBettisSportsIllustratedJan16t.jpg.html?&_suid=140150659826406045992650633745

Stacy

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/rams-rookie-stacy-eager-to-build-on-solid-first-game/article_ec9de30a-c9b7-52ca-9f68-ce8f8fe7b4c3.html

Definitely the same guy (the team listing-derived BMIs say so, so they must be, no need to trust the evidence and witness of our own senses), I had to do a double take to confirm it wasn't trick photography, and they hadn't photoshopped Stacy's head onto the body of Bettis in the last, third picture.

* I do agree with a few physical traits or attributes shared by Tomlinson and Mason. They are both bipeds and have faces.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Likely so on the latter, though there were 3TE formations that may not be as prevalent this year, so that will be another change.

The bottom line is, he didn't start a divisional game with Bradford, so his projection is a bit murky, at least by that measure. If the OL is improved that should help him, but it will help Mason, too.

The narrative for some was Stacy had a great season. Maybe he did under the circumstances? But I think for some, it was a great season without need for a qualifier like under the circumstances. When you break it down, it was somewhat up and down (and again, maybe there were identifiable reasons for that). But it is a different narrative to go from, he had a great season (not that you are necessarily doing that here, but some have, and not just at this board), to parts of his up and down season weren't great, but he was doomed to fail in them (as far as the efficiency department).

Bob , thanks, a very compelling argument for both sides of the coin! well thought out answers..you do great work in here, just wanted to give you a fan appreciation :thumbsup:..talent-wise, Mason blows Stacy's doors off..flip the scenarios, does Stacy play his butt off like Mason did in the Nat'l Championship game last year? no..

Stacy started as a backup to, *cough*, Daryl Richardson..if you can't beat out Daryl Richardson in training camp,you most certainly will not beat out Tre Mason..

in 3 years at Auburn,Mason nearly achieved better stats than what Stacy posted in 4 years at Vandy.

Mason

(att, yards, ypc, TD)

516

2979

5.8

32

Stacy (4 years):

581

3143

5.4

30

I think Mason brings more to the table.a more dynamic runner who seemingly plays his best in BIG games..

Thanks, Tanner.

In a non-partisan way, as a Rams fan I hope they are both great. Stacy could be better, his change of direction drills at the combine were outstanding. No question he has superior power. Mason does look more explosive and elusive to me.

The Rams backfield should be an interesting laboratory experiment to see which RB traits win out (or is it close to an even split?).

Long term, not concerned about Mason's blocking and receiving out of the backfield (looked like he had natural hands in drills), though it could definitely limit his snaps as a rookie. Good RBs seem to find their way onto the field, and get coached up.

 

[Khy]

In the below article* the high school coach of Bettis states he was 230 lbs. as a Freshman or Sophomore. It also notes that while he was listed at 255 at the end of his career in PIT, he was probably closer to 275-280 lbs. Pro Football reference lists Stacy at 5'9" 216 lbs., but wikipedia and the Rams list him at 5'8" 224 lbs. Even if he is the latter weight, Bettis was still 50 lbs. or more bigger than Stacy, which would be about the difference between Stacy and Trindon Holliday (listed at 177 lbs.), one of the lightest players in the league.

Tomlinson is listed at 5'10" 221 lbs., his official 40 time was about a 4.46, but he clocked sub-4.4s, he was faster, and I think had more electric open field moves than Mason.

I think we can do better than Bettis or Tomlinson as comps.

* http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/30/AR2006013001564.html

I think I'll stick to more official sources that Wikipedia and Bettis' high school coach. Thanks though.

I didn't use wikipedia for Bettis, I used two other sources for Stacy. Two of which agreed with yours.

You say you are sticking to the official source, but you never listed the weight of Bettis, what do you think it is? What is the official source you are using? Weights are sometimes understated for fat players. Not to mention weight can fluctuate (especially with a player like Bettis), but "official" sources list just one weight, which may or may not have borne much semblance to Bettis' actual weight. DL "official weights" are notorious for being off by as much as 50 lbs. at times. Do you think Bettis was the same size throughout his career, that he didn't get bigger? Yet there is only one official weight, so it must be right. His weight must have been invariant throughout his career?

Obviously I'm aware that weight fluctuates a lot with players. But the only solid numbers we ever have to go by are what the team lists him at... Bettis was always listed between 251-255 everywhere. So I think I went with 255 cause that seems to be the consensus. But going off pure speculation of his high school coach watching him on a tube TV in his living room in the 90s is a little ridiculous.

Most players play at a weight different from their list. Just like most fighters fight at different than what they weigh in at. Pretty simple and accepted fact with all sports in general. But when crunching numbers we need hard facts not "Ehhh, he's listed at 252 but he looks huge I'll say he's 280 in reality". If a scale isn't telling me numbers I don't really care to believe it. I'll stick with the factual numbers, even if they weren't their 'true' playing weight. It's usually what they'd show up to camp/combine at, so that's good enough for me.

Ted Washington was listed for years at 350 lbs. but it was common knowledge that it was a nudge nudge wink wink, asterisk 350 lbs., and he played closer to 400 lbs. at times. If listings are even in the ball park, fine, but when they are grossly off it becomes problematic.

I don't think they had youtube when Bettis was in high school, but not sure why his coach would need it if he did. If he had dozens or hundreds of players that went on to play in the NFL at as high a level as Bettis, I could see how that might be hard to keep track of and the memories might all just sort of blur together, but if he was a singular talent and the best or one of the best players he ever had, not a stretch at all to find it reasonable and not logic-defying to think he would remember something like that. In the same article, Vinnie Cerrato, former WAS GM, who was then at Notre Dame, said he was about 240 lbs. at that time. So that is a second source that states Bettis was probably already bigger than Stacy in high school. Also in the article, a Steelers radio analyst, who was a former NFL lineman, had been weighed as a player, around other players that were weighed, must have had a good idea of what weight corresponds to what body type, and just from working with the team, would be in position to have connections and sources of information, stated he was nowhere close to 250 lbs. at times during his career. But maybe they are all wrong.

Team listings and press guides are one source of information. Another tool, which I think is going to revolutionize scouting, is this cutting edge apparatus that this consortium from back East called the vertebrates have been working on for about a half billion years, they are called EYE BALLS. I have a good feeling about them, I think they are going to catch on.

A fun game you could use them on, and it doesn't really even require an experienced football observer, let alone a trained professional scout, would be to show the below pictures of Bettis and Stacy to any bright, attentive toddler, and ask them which monster doesn't belong in the normal-sized human category.

Bettis (the later, circa pastrami-era)

http://cnnsi.com/vault/cover/featured/10235/index.htm

http://s294.photobucket.com/user/RsxSmokesYou/media/Steelers%20Collection/Steelers%20Memorabilia/JeromeBettisSportsIllustratedJan16t.jpg.html#/user/RsxSmokesYou/media/Steelers%20Collection/Steelers%20Memorabilia/JeromeBettisSportsIllustratedJan16t.jpg.html?&_suid=140150659826406045992650633745

Stacy

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/rams-rookie-stacy-eager-to-build-on-solid-first-game/article_ec9de30a-c9b7-52ca-9f68-ce8f8fe7b4c3.html

Definitely the same guy (the team listing-derived BMIs say so, so they must be, no need to trust the evidence and witness of our own senses), I had to do a double take to confirm it wasn't trick photography, and they hadn't photoshopped Stacy's head onto the body of Bettis in the last, third picture.

* I do agree with a few physical traits or attributes shared by Tomlinson and Mason. They are both bipeds and have faces.

First off, showing two photos of Bettis in full pads from the side vs one of Stacy in a tshirt from the front isn't fair. Also, Stacy is built, he's mostly muscle. Bettis was just plain fat.

Muscle is about 18% more dense than fat. They were roughly the same body size. Difference being Bettis had probably like 18-20% body fat and Stacy has about 10%.

 

[Beefeaters]

Stacy has a year of proving his skills in the pros at the highest level. Mason is yet another unproven RB in a class of RB's that everyone previously agreed was not at all special (but now suddenly they are because people are now invested in them after their rookie drafts).

 

[FF Ninja]

In the below article* the high school coach of Bettis states he was 230 lbs. as a Freshman or Sophomore. It also notes that while he was listed at 255 at the end of his career in PIT, he was probably closer to 275-280 lbs. Pro Football reference lists Stacy at 5'9" 216 lbs., but wikipedia and the Rams list him at 5'8" 224 lbs. Even if he is the latter weight, Bettis was still 50 lbs. or more bigger than Stacy, which would be about the difference between Stacy and Trindon Holliday (listed at 177 lbs.), one of the lightest players in the league.

Tomlinson is listed at 5'10" 221 lbs., his official 40 time was about a 4.46, but he clocked sub-4.4s, he was faster, and I think had more electric open field moves than Mason.

I think we can do better than Bettis or Tomlinson as comps.

* http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/30/AR2006013001564.html

I think I'll stick to more official sources that Wikipedia and Bettis' high school coach. Thanks though.

I didn't use wikipedia for Bettis, I used two other sources for Stacy. Two of which agreed with yours.

You say you are sticking to the official source, but you never listed the weight of Bettis, what do you think it is? What is the official source you are using? Weights are sometimes understated for fat players. Not to mention weight can fluctuate (especially with a player like Bettis), but "official" sources list just one weight, which may or may not have borne much semblance to Bettis' actual weight. DL "official weights" are notorious for being off by as much as 50 lbs. at times. Do you think Bettis was the same size throughout his career, that he didn't get bigger? Yet there is only one official weight, so it must be right. His weight must have been invariant throughout his career?

Obviously I'm aware that weight fluctuates a lot with players. But the only solid numbers we ever have to go by are what the team lists him at... Bettis was always listed between 251-255 everywhere. So I think I went with 255 cause that seems to be the consensus. But going off pure speculation of his high school coach watching him on a tube TV in his living room in the 90s is a little ridiculous.

Most players play at a weight different from their list. Just like most fighters fight at different than what they weigh in at. Pretty simple and accepted fact with all sports in general. But when crunching numbers we need hard facts not "Ehhh, he's listed at 252 but he looks huge I'll say he's 280 in reality". If a scale isn't telling me numbers I don't really care to believe it. I'll stick with the factual numbers, even if they weren't their 'true' playing weight. It's usually what they'd show up to camp/combine at, so that's good enough for me.

Ted Washington was listed for years at 350 lbs. but it was common knowledge that it was a nudge nudge wink wink, asterisk 350 lbs., and he played closer to 400 lbs. at times. If listings are even in the ball park, fine, but when they are grossly off it becomes problematic.

I don't think they had youtube when Bettis was in high school, but not sure why his coach would need it if he did. If he had dozens or hundreds of players that went on to play in the NFL at as high a level as Bettis, I could see how that might be hard to keep track of and the memories might all just sort of blur together, but if he was a singular talent and the best or one of the best players he ever had, not a stretch at all to find it reasonable and not logic-defying to think he would remember something like that. In the same article, Vinnie Cerrato, former WAS GM, who was then at Notre Dame, said he was about 240 lbs. at that time. So that is a second source that states Bettis was probably already bigger than Stacy in high school. Also in the article, a Steelers radio analyst, who was a former NFL lineman, had been weighed as a player, around other players that were weighed, must have had a good idea of what weight corresponds to what body type, and just from working with the team, would be in position to have connections and sources of information, stated he was nowhere close to 250 lbs. at times during his career. But maybe they are all wrong.

Team listings and press guides are one source of information. Another tool, which I think is going to revolutionize scouting, is this cutting edge apparatus that this consortium from back East called the vertebrates have been working on for about a half billion years, they are called EYE BALLS. I have a good feeling about them, I think they are going to catch on.

A fun game you could use them on, and it doesn't really even require an experienced football observer, let alone a trained professional scout, would be to show the below pictures of Bettis and Stacy to any bright, attentive toddler, and ask them which monster doesn't belong in the normal-sized human category.

Bettis (the later, circa pastrami-era)

http://cnnsi.com/vault/cover/featured/10235/index.htm

http://s294.photobucket.com/user/RsxSmokesYou/media/Steelers%20Collection/Steelers%20Memorabilia/JeromeBettisSportsIllustratedJan16t.jpg.html#/user/RsxSmokesYou/media/Steelers%20Collection/Steelers%20Memorabilia/JeromeBettisSportsIllustratedJan16t.jpg.html?&_suid=140150659826406045992650633745

Stacy

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/rams-rookie-stacy-eager-to-build-on-solid-first-game/article_ec9de30a-c9b7-52ca-9f68-ce8f8fe7b4c3.html

Definitely the same guy (the team listing-derived BMIs say so, so they must be, no need to trust the evidence and witness of our own senses), I had to do a double take to confirm it wasn't trick photography, and they hadn't photoshopped Stacy's head onto the body of Bettis in the last, third picture.

* I do agree with a few physical traits or attributes shared by Tomlinson and Mason. They are both bipeds and have faces.

First off, showing two photos of Bettis in full pads from the side vs one of Stacy in a tshirt from the front isn't fair. Also, Stacy is built, he's mostly muscle. Bettis was just plain fat. Muscle is about 18% more dense than fat. They were roughly the same body size. Difference being Bettis had probably like 18-20% body fat and Stacy has about 10%.

I was wondering if this was ever going to be brought up. It's the reason BMI is borderline meaningless.

 

[Bob Magaw]

In the below article* the high school coach of Bettis states he was 230 lbs. as a Freshman or Sophomore. It also notes that while he was listed at 255 at the end of his career in PIT, he was probably closer to 275-280 lbs. Pro Football reference lists Stacy at 5'9" 216 lbs., but wikipedia and the Rams list him at 5'8" 224 lbs. Even if he is the latter weight, Bettis was still 50 lbs. or more bigger than Stacy, which would be about the difference between Stacy and Trindon Holliday (listed at 177 lbs.), one of the lightest players in the league.

Tomlinson is listed at 5'10" 221 lbs., his official 40 time was about a 4.46, but he clocked sub-4.4s, he was faster, and I think had more electric open field moves than Mason.

I think we can do better than Bettis or Tomlinson as comps.

* http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/30/AR2006013001564.html

I think I'll stick to more official sources that Wikipedia and Bettis' high school coach. Thanks though.

I didn't use wikipedia for Bettis, I used two other sources for Stacy. Two of which agreed with yours.

You say you are sticking to the official source, but you never listed the weight of Bettis, what do you think it is? What is the official source you are using? Weights are sometimes understated for fat players. Not to mention weight can fluctuate (especially with a player like Bettis), but "official" sources list just one weight, which may or may not have borne much semblance to Bettis' actual weight. DL "official weights" are notorious for being off by as much as 50 lbs. at times. Do you think Bettis was the same size throughout his career, that he didn't get bigger? Yet there is only one official weight, so it must be right. His weight must have been invariant throughout his career?

Obviously I'm aware that weight fluctuates a lot with players. But the only solid numbers we ever have to go by are what the team lists him at... Bettis was always listed between 251-255 everywhere. So I think I went with 255 cause that seems to be the consensus. But going off pure speculation of his high school coach watching him on a tube TV in his living room in the 90s is a little ridiculous.

Most players play at a weight different from their list. Just like most fighters fight at different than what they weigh in at. Pretty simple and accepted fact with all sports in general. But when crunching numbers we need hard facts not "Ehhh, he's listed at 252 but he looks huge I'll say he's 280 in reality". If a scale isn't telling me numbers I don't really care to believe it. I'll stick with the factual numbers, even if they weren't their 'true' playing weight. It's usually what they'd show up to camp/combine at, so that's good enough for me.

Ted Washington was listed for years at 350 lbs. but it was common knowledge that it was a nudge nudge wink wink, asterisk 350 lbs., and he played closer to 400 lbs. at times. If listings are even in the ball park, fine, but when they are grossly off it becomes problematic.

I don't think they had youtube when Bettis was in high school, but not sure why his coach would need it if he did. If he had dozens or hundreds of players that went on to play in the NFL at as high a level as Bettis, I could see how that might be hard to keep track of and the memories might all just sort of blur together, but if he was a singular talent and the best or one of the best players he ever had, not a stretch at all to find it reasonable and not logic-defying to think he would remember something like that. In the same article, Vinnie Cerrato, former WAS GM, who was then at Notre Dame, said he was about 240 lbs. at that time. So that is a second source that states Bettis was probably already bigger than Stacy in high school. Also in the article, a Steelers radio analyst, who was a former NFL lineman, had been weighed as a player, around other players that were weighed, must have had a good idea of what weight corresponds to what body type, and just from working with the team, would be in position to have connections and sources of information, stated he was nowhere close to 250 lbs. at times during his career. But maybe they are all wrong.

Team listings and press guides are one source of information. Another tool, which I think is going to revolutionize scouting, is this cutting edge apparatus that this consortium from back East called the vertebrates have been working on for about a half billion years, they are called EYE BALLS. I have a good feeling about them, I think they are going to catch on.

A fun game you could use them on, and it doesn't really even require an experienced football observer, let alone a trained professional scout, would be to show the below pictures of Bettis and Stacy to any bright, attentive toddler, and ask them which monster doesn't belong in the normal-sized human category.

Bettis (the later, circa pastrami-era)

http://cnnsi.com/vault/cover/featured/10235/index.htm

http://s294.photobucket.com/user/RsxSmokesYou/media/Steelers%20Collection/Steelers%20Memorabilia/JeromeBettisSportsIllustratedJan16t.jpg.html#/user/RsxSmokesYou/media/Steelers%20Collection/Steelers%20Memorabilia/JeromeBettisSportsIllustratedJan16t.jpg.html?&_suid=140150659826406045992650633745

Stacy

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/rams-rookie-stacy-eager-to-build-on-solid-first-game/article_ec9de30a-c9b7-52ca-9f68-ce8f8fe7b4c3.html

Definitely the same guy (the team listing-derived BMIs say so, so they must be, no need to trust the evidence and witness of our own senses), I had to do a double take to confirm it wasn't trick photography, and they hadn't photoshopped Stacy's head onto the body of Bettis in the last, third picture.

* I do agree with a few physical traits or attributes shared by Tomlinson and Mason. They are both bipeds and have faces.

First off, showing two photos of Bettis in full pads from the side vs one of Stacy in a tshirt from the front isn't fair. Also, Stacy is built, he's mostly muscle. Bettis was just plain fat.Muscle is about 18% more dense than fat. They were roughly the same body size. Difference being Bettis had probably like 18-20% body fat and Stacy has about 10%.

Actually the photos of Bettis were from the front and side.

Stacy in pads.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/fantasy/news/20131008/fantasy-football-waiver-wire/

Yeah, no, still looks nothing like him, but thanks for playing which monster is not a normal-sized human.

I'm aware muscle is more dense than fat, thanks, but it still doesn't make 225 lbs. as big as 275 lbs.

More Bettis photos, scroll down (with and without pads, four years apart). How would you calculate his body fat % on the second photo?

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/04/30/nfl-cleveland-browns-ben-tate-devalued-running-backs/

Before, when it was pointed out that Bettis might be bigger than you think going by his "officially listed" weight (as was the case with Ted Washington), you were were a stickler for going with the official record even if it defies visual evidence and common knowledge.

Now, when presented with visual evidence that suggests linking Bettis with Stacy is an exercise in pure comedy, its fast and loose, pull body fat % figures from the aether to shore up the crumbling foundations of the original unfortunate, misplaced comp.

Bully for you even if defiantly insisting on the Bettis is like Stacy comp (its my story and I'm sticking with it) probably means out of tens of millions of fantasy football players you might be in a vanishingly small percentage of the population that approximates zero.

But on a message board, obviously a horrifically ill-chosen comp is going to get scrutinized

Who did David Wilson remind you of? Jim Brown, Earl Campbell, Eric Dickerson. Did they have similar BMIs?

* It's hard to think of physical comps for Bettis, if he is 5'11" 275 lbs. He's a tweener, should have been too big to be a functional RB (and LB), too short and/or small to be a lineman, it turns out some of the few approximate physical comps are fullbacks, his position (LBs Zach Thomas and Stephen Tulloch are listed at about 5'11" 240 lbs. so same height, but smaller weight-wise - they look nothing like Bettis, either). John Kuhn is below, listed at 6'0" 250 lbs., so an inch taller and about the same weight Bettis was "officially" listed at, within a few pounds.

Even if Bettis has a 100% body fat percentage index, he clearly weighs more than Kuhn, unless the GB FB is really big boned, and they contain material from the core of a dwarf star.

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/9DtHPXy0eUi/New+Orleans+Saints+v+Green+Bay+Packers/_l1BeQFI6YD/John+Kuhn

 

[Bob Magaw]

Stacy has a year of proving his skills in the pros at the highest level. Mason is yet another unproven RB in a class of RB's that everyone previously agreed was not at all special (but now suddenly they are because people are now invested in them after their rookie drafts).

Stacy was also from a class that supposedly wasn't special (broke a lengthy string of drafts with at least one first round RB). He exceeded expectations, so could Mason by that rationale. So did Ellington. Second round RBs (in order) Bernard, Bell, Ball and Lacy all figure prominently in their teams run plans this year. Pretty good for a class that looked marginal on paper. Most RB classes don't have an Adrian Peterson-type talent, and in that sense probably aren't special, but the bottom line is, for fantasy purposes, Bell, Lacy and Bernard rank very high in dynasty, and Ball, Ellington and Stacy could make a move up this year. I don't know if the class was special, but its been useful for fantasy purposes. The RB class of '14 could also surprise in some ways, and from unexpected directions.

As to the proven skills in the pros at the highest level, that is an obvious advantage any vet has over any rookie. Yet rookies still have to get drafted, and sometimes they beat out more established vets. Intuitively it does seem like it would be more rare to beat out an ascendant second year player than a declining vet, but I'm also not sure how common it is to come back and draft a third round RB after a rookie season like Stacy had, so that also may be somwhat unusual. There is also debate about how great Stacy's season was (some qualify if with an under the circustances).

Some people think Mason is straight up more talented. No disputing he is less proven. Another way to look at it, if Mason has a 40% chance of winning the job, and you can get him with a 1.10-1.15 pick, is that a better value than what it would cost in draft/player capital to obtain Stacy via trade, if he has a 60% chance of holding the job beyond this year.

* If I saw a 100 m. race between Usain Bolt and Roseanne Barr, and Bolt smoked her, and I observed he was faster, possibly that could be because he really was faster, not that I was "invested" in either. This isn't the first thread comparing players, but for some reason, it is allowing the propogation of Phenix's non-constructive statement that implied positions are transparently deluded justifications for players you drafted to go unchecked (yet brought absolutely NOTHING positive or of value to the thread, just being a negative heckler).

Have you ever talked about a player you liked (and unsurprisingly, may have even drafted if given the opportunity, we tend to not draft players we don't like). Do you fall by your verdict, were your opinions transparently deluded justifications in that case. Or are you immune, and the scales of subjectivity and personal interest/investment have fallen from your eyes, so you can survey the fantasy landscape in its pure, unmediated actuality.

The problem with this line of thinking is that not everybody in the thread has a dog in the fight or therefore some kind of nebulous personal vested interest. Are you suggesting that Stacy, at a comparable stage of his career as a prospect to Mason (i.e. - this time last year), was so much better that anybody that thinks Mason has a chance to seize the job probably is lying to themselves and others? Than if not, some people favoring Stacy and others Mason is exactly what would be expected in the normal course of events, without needing to resort to conspiracy theory hidden agendas and ulterior motives.

 

[cstu]

Can you tell the difference?

Stacy

DeAngelo

 

[Brewtown]

Stacy has a year of proving his skills in the pros at the highest level. Mason is yet another unproven RB in a class of RB's that everyone previously agreed was not at all special (but now suddenly they are because people are now invested in them after their rookie drafts).

Not everyone! I think there are several "special" RBs in this draft class...

Sankey, Mason, Hill, Hyde...

 

[dkp993]

Physical similarities aside, which I don't think they have a ton of, since day one in watching Stacy he's reminded me of The Bus. It's really all in the feet they both are very light on their feet for relatively big guys.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Physical similarities aside, which I don't think they have a ton of, since day one in watching Stacy he's reminded me of The Bus. It's really all in the feet they both are very light on their feet for relatively big guys.

He breaks tackles, Earl Campbell broke tackles and was light on his feet for a big back, too, so was Marion Motley, going old school.

But physically, I find its generally not too difficult to find any number of suitable RB comps that are closer than 50 lbs. apart from the dude I'm trying to compare him to. As I said earlier, that would be about as close to the mark, physically, as comparing Trindon Holliday with Stacy, he is about 50 lbs. apart in the other direction.

All I'm suggesting is we can do better than Bettis as a comp, imo. Running sort of like him if he doesn't have that kind of size and power could lead to disappointment if that is a literal expectation (not saying you said that, just clarifying my position).

 

[cstu]

Physical similarities aside, which I don't think they have a ton of, since day one in watching Stacy he's reminded me of The Bus. It's really all in the feet they both are very light on their feet for relatively big guys.

He breaks tackles, Earl Campbell broke tackles and was light on his feet for a big back, too, so was Marion Motley, going old school.

But physically, I find its generally not too difficult to find any number of suitable RB comps that are closer than 50 lbs. apart.

All I'm suggesting is we can do better than Bettis as a comp, imo. Running sort of like him if he doesn't have that kind of size and power could lead to a disappointment if that is a literal expectation (not saying you said that, just clarifying my position).

The main reason I hate the Bettis comps is that he's a unique player - very, very rare for a RB his size to run with the speed and power he did, especially during the Rams and early Steeler days.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Physical similarities aside, which I don't think they have a ton of, since day one in watching Stacy he's reminded me of The Bus. It's really all in the feet they both are very light on their feet for relatively big guys.

He breaks tackles, Earl Campbell broke tackles and was light on his feet for a big back, too, so was Marion Motley, going old school.

But physically, I find its generally not too difficult to find any number of suitable RB comps that are closer than 50 lbs. apart.

All I'm suggesting is we can do better than Bettis as a comp, imo. Running sort of like him if he doesn't have that kind of size and power could lead to a disappointment if that is a literal expectation (not saying you said that, just clarifying my position).

The main reason I hate the Bettis comps is that he's a unique player - very, very rare for a RB his size to run with the speed and power he did, especially during the Rams and early Steeler days.

I think you hit the nail on the head. RBs Stacy's size that run with his combo of speed and power (such as it is), are not very, very rare. Just from last years class, Lacy and Bell have nice combos of speed and power, RBs like Hyde and Hill this year.Would Stacy definitely have gone before the third this year, even knowing what he did last year? I'm not certain teams would grade him higher than Hyde and Hill, and they nearly fell to the third round. I'd still rather have Hyde, even with the uncertainty (only 3 stops behind the LOS last year, broke record of career YPC average at a school that lists Eddie George among their NFL RB alumni, as well as Robert Smith), I think he is a better prospect.

* I have to say I am surprised by the dynasty poll so far (76-38 Mason over Stacy, even if we summed the 22 voting both and Stacy, it would still be 76-60, that represents a broad based confidence Mason will prevail and emerge as the primary RB), I thought it would be much closer and actually expected Stacy to be leading (the FBG consensus dynasty rankings heavily favor Stacy).

Perhaps the magnitude and scale of the decisiveness of the poll also came as a surprise to the OP, and others as well.

 

[cstu]

* I have to say I am surprised by the dynasty poll so far (76-38 Mason over Stacy, even if we summed the 22 voting both and Stacy, it would still be 76-60, that represents a broad based confidence Mason will prevail and emerge as the primary RB), I thought it would be much closer and actually expected Stacy to be leading (the FBG consensus dynasty rankings heavily favor Stacy).

Dynasty rankings tend to favor RB's who will provide value this year so I see why Stacy is higher than Mason.

Stacy's high ranking even after Mason was drafted is surprising to me, although a few people have dropped him to the low 20's.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Can you tell the difference?

Stacy

DeAngelo

Good one, physically that looks more on the money.

In his prime, Williams imo had superior burst, wiggle and was a more dynamic open field runner, but Stacy looks stronger and knocks defenders back more. Williams maybe tried harder to avoid tackles, Stacy sometimes appears to seek out contact and attempt to run through defenders more (though admittedly he may have been surrounded by defenders a lot last year and didn't always have a lot of choice in the matter - nonetheless it could be a more deeper rooted temperamental and stylistic difference).

 

[ShaHBucks]

Physical similarities aside, which I don't think they have a ton of, since day one in watching Stacy he's reminded me of The Bus. It's really all in the feet they both are very light on their feet for relatively big guys.

He breaks tackles, Earl Campbell broke tackles and was light on his feet for a big back, too, so was Marion Motley, going old school.

But physically, I find its generally not too difficult to find any number of suitable RB comps that are closer than 50 lbs. apart.

All I'm suggesting is we can do better than Bettis as a comp, imo. Running sort of like him if he doesn't have that kind of size and power could lead to a disappointment if that is a literal expectation (not saying you said that, just clarifying my position).

The main reason I hate the Bettis comps is that he's a unique player - very, very rare for a RB his size to run with the speed and power he did, especially during the Rams and early Steeler days.

I think you hit the nail on the head. RBs Stacy's size that run with his combo of speed and power (such as it is), are not very, very rare. Just from last years class, Lacy and Bell have nice combos of speed and power, RBs like Hyde and Hill this year.Would Stacy definitely have gone before the third this year, even knowing what he did last year? I'm not certain teams would grade him higher than Hyde and Hill, and they nearly fell to the third round. I'd still rather have Hyde, even with the uncertainty (only 3 stops behind the LOS last year, broke record of career YPC average at a school that lists Eddie George among their NFL RB alumni, as well as Robert Smith), I think he is a better prospect.

* I have to say I am surprised by the dynasty poll so far (76-38 Mason over Stacy, even if we summed the 22 voting both and Stacy, it would still be 76-60, that represents a broad based confidence Mason will prevail and emerge as the primary RB), I thought it would be much closer and actually expected Stacy to be leading (the FBG consensus dynasty rankings heavily favor Stacy).

Perhaps the magnitude and scale of the decisiveness of the poll also came as a surprise to the OP, and others as well.

Not really. I know what the popular opinion usually is (believe it or not).The direction of Stacy and Mason threads were going lead to me figuring we should combine the two.

 

[dkp993]

Physical similarities aside, which I don't think they have a ton of, since day one in watching Stacy he's reminded me of The Bus. It's really all in the feet they both are very light on their feet for relatively big guys.

He breaks tackles, Earl Campbell broke tackles and was light on his feet for a big back, too, so was Marion Motley, going old school.

But physically, I find its generally not too difficult to find any number of suitable RB comps that are closer than 50 lbs. apart.

All I'm suggesting is we can do better than Bettis as a comp, imo. Running sort of like him if he doesn't have that kind of size and power could lead to a disappointment if that is a literal expectation (not saying you said that, just clarifying my position).

The main reason I hate the Bettis comps is that he's a unique player - very, very rare for a RB his size to run with the speed and power he did, especially during the Rams and early Steeler days.

I think you hit the nail on the head. RBs Stacy's size that run with his combo of speed and power (such as it is), are not very, very rare. Just from last years class, Lacy and Bell have nice combos of speed and power, RBs like Hyde and Hill this year.Would Stacy definitely have gone before the third this year, even knowing what he did last year? I'm not certain teams would grade him higher than Hyde and Hill, and they nearly fell to the third round. I'd still rather have Hyde, even with the uncertainty (only 3 stops behind the LOS last year, broke record of career YPC average at a school that lists Eddie George among their NFL RB alumni, as well as Robert Smith), I think he is a better prospect.

* I have to say I am surprised by the dynasty poll so far (76-38 Mason over Stacy, even if we summed the 22 voting both and Stacy, it would still be 76-60, that represents a broad based confidence Mason will prevail and emerge as the primary RB), I thought it would be much closer and actually expected Stacy to be leading (the FBG consensus dynasty rankings heavily favor Stacy).Perhaps the magnitude and scale of the decisiveness of the poll also came as a surprise to the OP, and others as well.

Not really. I know what the popular opinion usually is (believe it or not).The direction of Stacy and Mason threads were going lead to me figuring we should combine the two.

Fellas, I'm not comparing Stacy to The Bus talent wise in anyway shape or form. Clearly the bus was an extraordinarily unique Hall of Fame talent. All I'm saying is the running styles reminds me of him. I agree to D'Angelo physically is the closest match to Stacy but the running styles to me are totally different they "look"different. For whatever reason when I see Stacy I see Jerome Bettis from a style/look standpoint.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Comparing Stacy and Mason in college. I'll note some observations later after looking again. Mason does seem to bounce it outside a lot, he also gets on top of the second level very quickly. Stacy does have impressively nifty feet and elusiveness for such a powerful RB.

There is a tendency to think one has to be better, and this is usually right, but it is possible they are both very good. Of course, Stacy could still dominate the carries given that, but it could also point to a more even distribution of carries going forward (not necessarily in 2014) if that is the case.

Stacy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOpxitB7opA

Mason

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvRcEU8Pr4

 

[Casting Couch]

So basically this is a thread of Stacy owners vs Mason owners.

They are the ones most likely following this situation closely. I would think.

Ones most likely just trying to validate their player and not give their real thoughts or opinions. I would think.

Or, it could be the other way around. There is a slight, slight chance that people have bought into Stacy or Mason based on their observations rather than basing their observations on the fact that they own one or the other.

Slight.

I don't have a horse in this race, but I would roll with Tre Mason over Stacy by a fair amount.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Anyone that could look at "latter day" Jerome Bettis and believe he was more than a handful of pounds under 3 bills is fooling themselves.

Stacy is more Travis Henry than Jerome Bettis.

 

[Soulfly3]

as an Auburn fan, watching Mason was an absolute joy.

What I think is unique about him, is for some a punishing runner, he is very "patient"

Watch when he runs how he has the ability to stutter for a split second once he gets the ball to assess everything infront of him. literally a split second, and then he just picks his route and GOES.

This guy is going from a great o-line in college, to perhaps the most elite in the NFL.

I like Stacy... I do own him in some leagues, but Ive been trying to sell, and buying Mason wherever I can.

Mason is making this his job, and unlike some of you, I think it gets done before midseason. He is going to beast the NFL. Remember this

 

[Phenix]

Stacy has a year of proving his skills in the pros at the highest level. Mason is yet another unproven RB in a class of RB's that everyone previously agreed was not at all special (but now suddenly they are because people are now invested in them after their rookie drafts).

You mean what Stacy was last year?

 

[BuzzCagney]

Zac Stacy - St. Louis Rams - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld ...

Someone should contact Fisher and tell him how great Mason is.

 

[Soulfly3]

Zac Stacy - St. Louis Rams - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld ...

Someone should contact Fisher and tell him how great Mason is.

he mustve meant 70% of the backup carries.

 

[jdswan922]

Zac Stacy - St. Louis Rams - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld ...

Someone should contact Fisher and tell him how great Mason is.

You may want to check the date on that quote...

 

[bmsarvis]

If the cost is a startup is 3rd rd for Stacy and 9th rd for mason I'm Goin mason all day! I think it's gonna be rbbc this to be honest with neither netting great ff points. Mason is a special talent running the ball in my eyes. Pass protection and fumbling will limit him. Stacy has proved enough last year that it will keep him getting touches regardless how mason plays. I'd guess Stacy a sure chance at gl short yardage n 4 min offense (which will probably be used more this season ,Bradford and the def) mason will break some tho . I predict a pretty hit or miss year for tre. Even though I like his running ability more than stacy. I vote stacy as the rb to own for this year on those points .

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Stacy .....but I wouldn't leave Cunningham out of this discussion...If Stacy went down with injury I could see Cunningham coming on and making it hard for the coaches to ignore him.

 

[bulger2holt]

As a Rams fan, I am very happy to have both Stacy and Mason. Going to be an excellent duo

 

[loose circuits]

Zac Stacy - St. Louis Rams - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld ...

Someone should contact Fisher and tell him how great Mason is.

I think he knows. Doesn't his son play for Auburn? Mason says he's like family...

 

[jurb26]

Zac Stacy - St. Louis Rams - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld ...

Someone should contact Fisher and tell him how great Mason is.

I think he knows. Doesn't his son play for Auburn? Mason says he's like family...

Yup, son plays S for Auburn. That's one of the main reasons I thought it was laughable that people thought he would draft Mathews over Robinson because of "family ties." He probably knows most of their NFL prospects inside and out.

 

[BuzzCagney]

Zac Stacy - St. Louis Rams - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld ...

Someone should contact Fisher and tell him how great Mason is.

You may want to check the date on that quote...

I did. I know it was before the draft. But that was Fisher's mind set going into the draft. Richardson was gone and Pead is untrustworthy. So it would seem Fisher was trying to look for someone to plug that 30% gap in carries.

 

[cstu]

Zac Stacy - St. Louis Rams - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld ...

Someone should contact Fisher and tell him how great Mason is.

You may want to check the date on that quote...

I did. I know it was before the draft. But that was Fisher's mind set going into the draft. Richardson was gone and Pead is untrustworthy. So it would seem Fisher was trying to look for someone to plug that 30% gap in carries.

Perhaps, or maybe he thinks Mason is the RB he thought he was getting in Pead.

 

[Brewtown]

Zac Stacy - St. Louis Rams - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld ...

Someone should contact Fisher and tell him how great Mason is.

You may want to check the date on that quote...

I did. I know it was before the draft. But that was Fisher's mind set going into the draft. Richardson was gone and Pead is untrustworthy. So it would seem Fisher was trying to look for someone to plug that 30% gap in carries.

That may have been his mindset going into the draft, but then again he may have thought that he had no chance of drafting Mason where he did. Now that he's got a brand new vette in the garage he may start to drive it more than the Chrysler 300 (he may find the vette more fun to drive).

My guess is that he'll have a hard time not using Tre Mason more than Stacy as early as this year...

 

[msommer]

Zac Stacy - St. Louis Rams - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld ...

Someone should contact Fisher and tell him how great Mason is.

You may want to check the date on that quote...

I did. I know it was before the draft. But that was Fisher's mind set going into the draft. Richardson was gone and Pead is untrustworthy. So it would seem Fisher was trying to look for someone to plug that 30% gap in carries.

That may have been his mindset going into the draft, but then again he may have thought that he had no chance of drafting Mason where he did. Now that he's got a brand new vette in the garage he may start to drive it more than the Chrysler 300 (he may find the vette more fun to drive).

My guess is that he'll have a hard time not using Tre Mason more than Stacy as early as this year...

We still need to see the 'vette block the 18-wheeler truck though...

 

[Brewtown]

Zac Stacy - St. Louis Rams - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld ...

Someone should contact Fisher and tell him how great Mason is.

You may want to check the date on that quote...

I did. I know it was before the draft. But that was Fisher's mind set going into the draft. Richardson was gone and Pead is untrustworthy. So it would seem Fisher was trying to look for someone to plug that 30% gap in carries.

That may have been his mindset going into the draft, but then again he may have thought that he had no chance of drafting Mason where he did. Now that he's got a brand new vette in the garage he may start to drive it more than the Chrysler 300 (he may find the vette more fun to drive).

My guess is that he'll have a hard time not using Tre Mason more than Stacy as early as this year...

We still need to see the 'vette block the 18-wheeler truck though...

This is true.

 

[SproutDaddy]

So basically this is a thread of Stacy owners vs Mason owners.

Not necessarily. I don't own either. I just really like Mason as a prospect. Plus, he's Plug 3's son. I love De La.

Call me a believer. I just took Mason at 1.10. He was destined to be a member of the Hip Hop Drunkies.

 

[Nero]

Zac Stacy - St. Louis Rams - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld ...

Someone should contact Fisher and tell him how great Mason is.

You may want to check the date on that quote...

I did. I know it was before the draft. But that was Fisher's mind set going into the draft. Richardson was gone and Pead is untrustworthy. So it would seem Fisher was trying to look for someone to plug that 30% gap in carries.

That may have been his mindset going into the draft, but then again he may have thought that he had no chance of drafting Mason where he did. Now that he's got a brand new vette in the garage he may start to drive it more than the Chrysler 300 (he may find the vette more fun to drive). My guess is that he'll have a hard time not using Tre Mason more than Stacy as early as this year...

Stacy is more F250 IMO.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Since the question, how big is a starting NFL RB is an empirical one...

There are several teams with uncertain starters (OAK, MIA, NE a few examples), used FBG depth charts for provisional purposes.

I think weight is more important than height for a RB, so haven't sorted by that, I'll leave that to others if interested. I used NFL.com, some of these weights may be approximations (may have heard McCoy is bigger?), and that could cause some RBs to bump up (or down) a weight class.

Less than a third (9) of the starting RBs are under 210 lbs., more than a third (11) are roughly between 210-220 lbs. and more than a third (12) are over 220 lbs. Perhaps the 5 lb. increment breakdown below the 10 lb. one is more useful. While there are 11 RBs between 210-219 lbs., only one is in the 210-214 lb. bracket, but 10 are in the 215-219 lb. class.

Not sure if it is a disconnect, but in comparison to the bigger Stacy, some think Mason may not be big enough to be a feature RB. While not taller, he is actually bigger than Sankey (weighs 5 lbs. more despite being 2" shorter), yet it seems Sankey has less attendant questions about his size. Maybe because he is the presumed starter, looking at him through "starter goggles" causes some to be more forgiving of his size?

0 RBs appreciably under 200 lbs.
9 RBs between 200-209 lbs.
11 RBs between 210-219 lbs.
7 RBs between 220-229 lbs.
3 RBs between 230-239lbs.
2 RBs 240+ lbs.

200-204 lbs. (6)
205-209 lbs. (3)
210-214 lbs. (1)
215-219 lbs. (10)
220-224 lbs. (5)
225-229 lbs. (2)
230-234 lbs. (3)
235-239 lbs. (0)
240-244 lbs. (2)

ARI - Ellington (5'9", 200 lbs.)
ATL - Jackson (6'2", 240 lbs.)
BAL - Rice (5'8", 212 lbs.)
BUF - Spiller (5'11", 200 lbs.)
CAR - Williams (5'9", 215 lbs.)
CHI - Forte (6'2", 218 lbs.)
CIN - Bernard (5'9", 208 lbs)
CLE - Tate (5'11", 217 lbs.)
DAL - Murray (6'0", 220 lbs.)
DEN - Ball (5'10", 215 lbs.)
DET - Bush (6'0", 203 lbs.)
GB - Lacy (5'11", 230 lbs.)
HOU - Foster (6'1", 227 lbs.)
IND - Richardson (5'9", 225 lbs.)
JAX - Gerhart (6'0", 230 lbs.)
KC - Charles (5'11", 200 lbs.)
MIA - Moreno (5'11", 220 lbs.)
MIN - Peterson (6'1", 217 lbs.)
NE - Ridley (5'11", 220 lbs.)
NO - Thomas (5'10", 205 lbs.)
NYG - Jennings (6'1", 230 lbs.)
NYJ - Johnson (5'11, 203 lbs.)
OAK - McFadden (6'1", 218 lbs.)
PHI - McCoy (5'11", 208 lbs.)
PIT - Bell (6'1", 244 lbs.)
SD - Mathews (6'0", 220 lbs.)
SEA - Lynch (5'11", 215 lbs.)
SF - Gore (5'9", 217 lbs.)
STL - Stacy (5'8", 224 lbs.)
TB - Martin (5'9", 215 lbs.)
TEN - Sankey (5'10", 203 lbs.)
WAS - Morris (5'10", 218 lbs.)

 

[Soulfly3]

Bob, maybe you can elaborate on this, but reading the STL forums, it's seems that Fisher has gone out of his way a bit to specifically comment on Mason and what he is bringing to the table.

While I own Stacy in some dynasty leagues, I am not confident in his ability nor do I think he is anything more than a volume rusher. On the other hand, I really like Mason's ability, determination and style.

If Mason holds on to the rock, I dont see this competition taking long to be won by Tre. While he does need to work on his pass protection, I feel he has the luxury of perhaps the league's best o-line to make his job THAT much easier.

 

[Eminence]

I like Mason but this is Stacy's job to lose. If we're talking Dynasty, I would pull out all the stops to acquire both guys if I owned one or the other.

 

[Soulfly3]

250 rushes. 3.9ypc

7 TDs, which came from 1,1,1,1,3,9,40yds out.

Ill be the first to say "never toss out a number to make your point...", so I won't. But I dont really need to.

Crappy ypc, and TDs that really all came from basically a nut's hair outside the goalline.

As I said, I own Stacy. But this guy is literally unimpressive in every aspect

 

[ShaHBucks]

250 rushes. 3.9ypc

7 TDs, which came from 1,1,1,1,3,9,40yds out.

Ill be the first to say "never toss out a number to make your point...", so I won't. But I dont really need to.

Crappy ypc, and TDs that really all came from basically a nut's hair outside the goalline.

As I said, I own Stacy. But this guy is literally unimpressive in every aspect

Who's to say Stacy won't remain the goal line back?

 

[Eminence]

I think Mason fits the role Isaiah Pead was supposed to. He's definitely the best pass-catching back on the team, so expect him in there on 3rd downs.

 

[ShaHBucks]

I think Mason fits the role Isaiah Pead was supposed to. He's definitely the best pass-catching back on the team, so expect him in there on 3rd downs.

Mason's hands are not better than Stacy's.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Bob, maybe you can elaborate on this, but reading the STL forums, it's seems that Fisher has gone out of his way a bit to specifically comment on Mason and what he is bringing to the table.

While I own Stacy in some dynasty leagues, I am not confident in his ability nor do I think he is anything more than a volume rusher. On the other hand, I really like Mason's ability, determination and style.

If Mason holds on to the rock, I dont see this competition taking long to be won by Tre. While he does need to work on his pass protection, I feel he has the luxury of perhaps the league's best o-line to make his job THAT much easier.

Soulfly, Fisher recently said the plan is to have Stacy get 70% of the carries. I took that to mean this year, but he didn't specify. Fisher and/or Snead called Mason a change of pace RB after drafting him. Cunningham's role, if any, is a variable, but one I'm not too concerned about. If the RBBC distribution is primarily between Stacy and Mason, I had wondered if it would be closer to a 2/3 to 1/3 or 60/40 split. The former is not too far from Fisher's estimate (which may have been off the top of his head, and anyways, subject to revision as the season unfolds and depending on how their respective talents and production dictates). There will be variance from week to week depending on game situation, but maybe something like an AVERAGE of Stacy with 20 carries and Mason with 10 carries, give or take a few.Fisher also said recently, Mason brings some competition to the RB position. At first I thought he was talking about with Stacy (and maybe he was?), but as phrased, it could just be referring to competing for the #2 RB, it doesn't specify.

Health could be a key variable, this year and in future seasons. Stacy was dinged a few times last year, but was generally healthy at Vanderbilt (out 3 games as a soph due to what was called a head injury). Not sure if they have an illustrious list of NFL RB alumni, but he did break school career rushing records there, so hard to do that if you are injury prone. He is a physical player and doesn't shy away from contact. Having Mason spell Stacy could help preserve him. Some people criticized Mason as a luxury pick, but if Stacy gets hurt, Mason may be talented enough that the run game doesn't skip too much of a beat. It makes sense to me that in drafting a dominant run blocker like Robinson, why not leverage that by running more, and upgrading the talent of their RB stable.

My position has been Mason is a better dynasty than redraft prospect. He is raw in pass protection. There is a difference between can't and didn't. His Auburn/STL teammate Robinson is also raw for the same reason, they ran a lot, but was still drafted second overall (and was a consensus top 5 overall prospect) because he has the compelling physical tools, athleticism, talent and upside to project as being able to develop his pass pro skills. Mason needs to be coached up, too, but I think a lot of blocking is want to, so I'm not overly concerned on that score for dynasty purposes.

I agree with those that think Stacy will be hard to displace this year, barring injury. In 2015, it gets more interesting.

Check out Stacy's agility drill times at the combine, they were pretty impressive, even without a "for a RB of his size" qualifier (33" VJ less explosive than Mason - 38.5" VJ?). Like many, I value pedigree, especially in dynasty. High draft picks bust and undrafted free agents become stars, but when I have tracked top players at their positions on offense and defense, a high percentage come from the first three rounds. But it should just be a filter or screen, one of several, maybe more important in the hierarchy than others (and I may weight it too heavily and to a fault at times), but ultimately, imo, we should break each prospect down on a case by case basis, and evaluate them on their own merits.

As others have brought up, Stacy in many ways had the odds stacked against him, with Clemens as the QB in 9/12 of his starts. From that perspective, even if 3.9 isn't a scintillating YPC average, pacing for 1,300+ yards and 10+ TDs is pretty impressive given the circumstances. I know you know this, but just as a reminder, part of being consistent in this case would be, if you are excited about the addition of Robinson and the STL OLs run blocking potential for Mason... than you should be for Stacy, too. If nothing else, Stacy's better size profiles better for goal line back detail.*

The biggest wild card, we don't know how Mason will transition to the NFL. Related to that, will his overall constellation of attributes, suddenness, burst, explosiveness and ability to cut at speed, be more effective than Stacy's greater size and power?

The above may not tell you much you didn't know already. I think the way some people are looking at it, because Stacy is the incumbent, he will retain the starting gig as long as he plays well. There is some sense in that, especially when it comes to 2014. Longer term, if Mason looks decisively better in more limited reps, I would expect him to encroach on the RBBC split percentage, to the point he could eventually supplant him.

In my case, I don't have Stacy in any leagues (funny now that this time last year I thought the position was crowded, than it wasn't, now maybe it is again - things can change in a hurry), added Mason in one this year. Even before the draft, Mason was one of my three favorite RBs in the class, with Hyde and Hill, so I give him a puncher's chance of seizing the starting gig long term, though probably not this year.

I have to say, while also excited by Mason's potential, IMO, the probability of Stacy still being the lead in a RBBC with Mason in 2015, 2016, etc. may be higher than you seem to be accounting for here. Mason may prove more talented ultimately, but when you are sussing this out, Stacy is not without talent himself.

* Let me clarify that. Stacy's size would make him a better bet to be a goal line RB, and Mason being smaller, less likely. IF THEY HAVE ONE. But this consideration is of course rendered moot if they don't employ a dedicated goal line RB. If Mason gets a series here or there and they get close to the stripe on his watch, I'm not sure they won't let him try to punch it in, and if he is good at it (I think he will be), keep letting him do it. If Mason beats out Stacy (say in 2015 or 2016), I would not expect them to pull him at the goal line for Stacy, especially if he excels at it in an "apprenticeship" phase. In this sense, the goal line back factor could be a red herring. The way it shakes out could just be as straightforward and simple as, whoever starts, will get more rushing TDs.

 

[Bob Magaw]

I think Mason fits the role Isaiah Pead was supposed to. He's definitely the best pass-catching back on the team, so expect him in there on 3rd downs.

Mason's hands are not better than Stacy's.

Agreed, I don't think anything passing-related could be chalked up as a strength of Mason's at this point. He looked natural catching the ball at the combine, so I expect him to be functional (blocking, too, with development, but not necessarily as a rookie), but hard to call him anything but untested and unproven at this point. it's just the nature of the beast (Auburn scheme).

 

[ShaHBucks]

I think Mason fits the role Isaiah Pead was supposed to. He's definitely the best pass-catching back on the team, so expect him in there on 3rd downs.

Mason's hands are not better than Stacy's.

Agreed, I don't think anything passing-related could be chalked up as a strength of Mason's at this point. He looked natural catching the ball at the combine, so I expect him to be functional (blocking, too, with development, but not necessarily as a rookie), but hard to call him anything but untested and unproven at this point. it's just the nature of the beast (Auburn scheme).

Pretty much Bob. There is little evidence right now suggesting otherwise. That's one bias that always favors the smaller guy for some reason.

 

[cstu]

I think Mason fits the role Isaiah Pead was supposed to. He's definitely the best pass-catching back on the team, so expect him in there on 3rd downs.

Mason's hands are not better than Stacy's.

Agreed, I don't think anything passing-related could be chalked up as a strength of Mason's at this point. He looked natural catching the ball at the combine, so I expect him to be functional (blocking, too, with development, but not necessarily as a rookie), but hard to call him anything but untested and unproven at this point. it's just the nature of the beast (Auburn scheme).

Pretty much Bob. There is little evidence right now suggesting otherwise. That's one bias that always favors the smaller guy for some reason.

Stacy was last (#22/22) in YPR (5.4) among RB's who played 60% of snaps.

 

[Soulfly3]

Seems to me that fact is being overshadowed by misconception in this thread.

Mason is going to carve into Stacy's workload very early. And dominate it almost as quickly