Reaper
Footballguy
All Geno had to do was turn Stephen Hill or Greg Salas into Brandon Marshall.....
People ignore that Decker was only 100% for 5 weeks that year... so even that comparison is off...
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QB Ryan Fitzpatrick, WAS (2 Viewers)
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All Geno had to do was turn Stephen Hill or Greg Salas into Brandon Marshall.....
People ignore that Decker was only 100% for 5 weeks that year... so even that comparison is off...
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I've come around more and more to Reaper's view on this. I'm half hoping that they let Fitzpatrick find a new home and we see what Geno really is before deciding if we let him walk or give him a little more time.
I don't have a ton of faith in Geno (I think he's a bonehead) but he has above average physical traits and will be playing with by far the best collection of skill players he has been on the field with and in the best system for his skillset. Maybe he's grown up a little and was humbled by last year.
For those that didn't watch Fitzpatrick last year every week, it's easy to look at his stats and think he was great, but he was very lucky at times and was constantly bailed out by Marshall and Decker who won balls in the air that most WRs wouldn't. The guy has the weakest arm in the league and for a Harvard guy, he really doesn't play much smarter than Geno. With that said I loved watching him last year as he's a leader on the field, plasy with tremendous passion and courage and was in total command of the offense and the huddle. I wouldn't be upset to see him come back at all, I'm just saying I also wouldn't mind seeing what a QB with a much stronger arm and better athleticism can do in this offense. I'd also like to have some hope for the future and Fitz doesn't bring that - and frankly as pointed out with their brutal schedule this present is no sure thing anyway.
Reaper
Footballguy
I Still hope they Sign Fitzpatrick... I'll root and hope for the best - Again, I live and die with Wins / losses and a Win makes a much healthier Sunday/Monday...
But, I look at that schedule and think it would be tough for any QB.... So, lets see the People's Champion Fitzpatrick face defenses like he hasn't beat..
Lets see him go > .500 Vs CIN @BUF @KCC SEA PIT ARZ then we roll....
Otherwise Geno gets his shot to be a hero mid season..
I still think the people that label Geno as "not getting it Upstairs" are ignoring the Main difference between that convoluted WCO Marty ran (where a project rookie had no biz running) VS this 1 read Quick throw (less decisions) offense Chan runs.... Or the fact that these WR"s mostly out of the league now were not were they were supposed to be in an offense completely reliant on timing and Wr's being where they are supposed to be...Even Harvin (out of the league) is NOT a route runner.... So Geno = Dumb
But, I look at that schedule and think it would be tough for any QB.... So, lets see the People's Champion Fitzpatrick face defenses like he hasn't beat..
Lets see him go > .500 Vs CIN @BUF @KCC SEA PIT ARZ then we roll....
Otherwise Geno gets his shot to be a hero mid season..
I still think the people that label Geno as "not getting it Upstairs" are ignoring the Main difference between that convoluted WCO Marty ran (where a project rookie had no biz running) VS this 1 read Quick throw (less decisions) offense Chan runs.... Or the fact that these WR"s mostly out of the league now were not were they were supposed to be in an offense completely reliant on timing and Wr's being where they are supposed to be...Even Harvin (out of the league) is NOT a route runner.... So Geno = Dumb
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TLEF316
Footballguy
Totally agree that the offense (and the players around him) didn't help Geno AT ALL. But he still made some plays that were just so dumb that they made me question whether he could ever run any offense. Remember this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eno0i_xKa_w
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
That's an odd statement. You say this like it is a bad thing.
There are only so many Rodgers/Brady/Wilson types in the league. The Jets don't have one of them. What they do have is a QB who recognizes his weapons and puts the ball in a position for them to make a play on it, and he's willing to take chances to put it there.
That's a great quality in a QB. Would you rather have Alex Smith checking down and not putting the ball out there for Marshall and Decker? Fitz may not be one of the greats, but he optimizes the talent around him given what he recognizes as his own limitations - and if he was willing to play for a one year $12M contract, he clearly recognizes himself and what he is.
I get the impression that the Jets are still trying to screw him over. If so, I hope Fitz lets them go into the season with Geno starting.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
No, I'm saying that he had multiple sure interceptions dropped (the lucky part) and that having two great WRs helped him tremendously. Brandon Marshall was a complete beast who fought off defenders like no WR I have seen on a consistent basis and Decker was like a lite version of him. I do think trusting your WRs is a good thing in many instances but when you have a weak arm it can get you burned as well - and plenty of DBs jumped the route while he stared Marshall down but let the ball bounce off their fingers. I also think Geno could (in theory) take advantage of those talented WRs, as could most QBs (even Alex Smith since they run shorter routes). Having Fitzpatrick also totally hamstrings an offense as the guy can not take advantage of the speed of the rookie they drafted last season as he just can't put the ball deep.
You're entitled to whatever impression you want to have - but it works both ways. A journeyman QB that has played for seven teams and has been cast aside by all of said teams is trying to capitalize and be paid above his true value based on a career year where everything broke right for him. He has every right to ask for as much as he wants of course, just like his potential employer has every right to pay him what they think he's truly worth.
Geno has showed flashes during his first two seasons. He played extremely well in a handful of games. He looked very bad at times as well. I'd be interested in seeing how he looks in an offense that suits his skillset (instead of the crap offense under Rex) and with weapons 10x as good as what he's had before. If Fitzpatrick wants to play the disrespect card and go home, that's his right and I'm sure he'll never see the $15MM the Jets have guaranteed him anywhere else - let's not act like they're asking him to take the veteran minimum. I do not have any ill will towards the man. I appreciate everything he did last season and he's a hell of a nice guy and great leader. I really don't see him as a way better option than Geno in all honestly and in many many ways going with Geno would make more sense for the franchise.
glock
"Don't grumble, give a whistle!"
He felt his right arm was going to receive contact and that there was no way he was going to hold onto the ball or get two hands on it. Looks really bad if you want it to. Or not.
Reaper
Footballguy
Wether it's Geno or Fitz, the FACT is the schedule is lined up with teams that will be favored over the Jets....
That's not an excuse - It's the simple fact that, SEA, @ARZ, CIN, @KC, @PIT and even BAL are all established teams further along the process than the Jets...
Add in @BUF who Crushed Fitz twice and you have a situation where either QB is going to face a mountain of Somehow beating 4 of those teams or Feel the wrath of a 3-4 QB or worse....
Every time I type that early schedule it's just mind numbing... How many Non-Jet fans count wins Vs any of those teams?
I'll be optimistic and hope Fitz or Geno can win 3 or 4 of CIN, @KC, BAL and @BUF and stay close to .500....
I Honestly think that task is part of why Fitz isn't budging.....
bostonfred
Footballguy
1 year, 12 million reported on nfl network.
You drive a hard bargain, jets
You drive a hard bargain, jets
massraider
Footballguy
So Fitz wanted 12 mil a year, and got 1-year, 12 mill.
The list of people who thought he was smart and sticking to his guns is pretty much non-existent.
Every talking head that chimed in was pretty much totally wrong.
Good for you, Fitz. $$$
You can always tell a Harvard man, you just can't tell him very much.
The list of people who thought he was smart and sticking to his guns is pretty much non-existent.
Every talking head that chimed in was pretty much totally wrong.
Good for you, Fitz. $$$
You can always tell a Harvard man, you just can't tell him very much.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Well, some folks were pretty sure NY needed Fitz more than Fitz needed to play in the NFL.
I just hope everyone is wearing their seat belt because all those people from the Jets coaches all the way down to so many of their fans are going to shift from 5th gear of the "there's not much difference between Geno and Fitz" bus to reverse. What are the chances Geno makes the team now? Some folks in this thread are likely to get whiplash.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'm very ok with him coming back, but stand by there likely not being much difference between him and Geno, other than what I've previously stated (leadership and command of the offense). I doubt Geno gets released because I doubt they want Petty or Hackenberg starting any games. I think they try and sneak Petty onto the practice squad. There's still a decent chance Geno starts a game or two with the pass rush of some of their early opponents.
Im glad he got paid a decent sum too. Its pretty hard not to like the guy.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He actually wanted more, but when the Jets offered him 3 year $24MM deal with $15 guaranteed he switched to saying he'd take $12MM for one year so that he wouldnt be locked into $6MM a year for the next two years. At the time the team couldnt fit that under the cap. The Wilkerson extension freed up money.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Yeah, you were always pretty level headed about it. I have just heard a lot of junk the past month or so that was trying to convince themselves that Geno and Fitz play last season was in any way comparable....... something tells me after today there is no doubt who will be starting assuming Fitz is healthy.
The whole, "but the Jets have no money!" was obviously more than a little overblown.
I am happy for the Jets, their coaching staff, and their vets who don't have many more shots at this. NE stranglehold on the division is almost over. I'll take "40" vs any QB every time. People act like new stretching methods change that but so far Favre and Moon are the few upsets. Jets are pretty close to winning this division imo.
TLEF316
Footballguy
No. It really wasn't. The Jets STILL don't have any money. The agreement with Fitzpatrick puts them like $7 Million over the cap. They're going to have to make some pretty serious adjustments to fit him in. (or, according to Over the Cap, use some sort of "voidable contract structure", which I don't really understand) And when the "The Jets don't have the money" talk was going, Wilkerson was counting a whopping $17 Million against the cap (Now $10 Mil after signing his extension) under the assumption that he'd be playing under the franchise tag.
Back in May/June when the whole "Fitzpatrick will play for $12 Mil" talk was going on, it was basically impossible for the Jets to sign that deal. The last minute deal with Wilkerson opened the door a crack. The Jets 3 year discount offer to Fitzpatrick wasn't really about getting him for backup money in years 2 and 3, it was about creating a contract structure that would keep his cap number for this year as low as possible (Giving him a low base for 2016 and spreading out a signing bonus over 3 years) and minimizing the financial impact if they chose to cut him after this season. It was the only realistic way they could fit him into the salary structure (other than him taking the $8 Mil for 1, which was never going to happen) if Wilkerson didn't re-up.
This really isn't that difficult to understand. The Jets wanted Fitz (and needed him to challenge for a playoff spot. As I've said, I don't think that's happening anyway) and Fitz knew he had exactly ZERO other suitors. Throughout this entire process, the Jets' stance has been about the realities of the salary cap and the structure of their team. Fitzpatrick's stance has been about his own pride (hard to justify taking that much less than guys like Osweiller and Bradford after a career year) and the totally reasonable desire to set him and his family up financially going forward.
So did Fitz "win" here? I guess maybe he did. He obviously had the support of the locker room and he got a nearly 400% salary bump off last year. But as far as negotiation "losses" go, this is a pretty good one for the Jets. They've put together the best team they could for this year, and their cap hit for the QB position is one of the lowest in the league (excluding guys on rookie contracts). This is a zero risk deal, as they were gonna have to spend the money anyway. The only people who lose here are Geno (who will still make the team) and whoever has to take a pay cut to fit Fitz under the cap.
The only potential downside here is if they decide not to carry 4 QB's, can't sneak Petty onto the practice squad and he somehow becomes something down the road.
massraider
Footballguy
Yes, the team is in a win now mode.
Whether that's wise or not is debatable, but they have a legit defense, a vet QB, and vet WR. It would be ludicrous for the team to dismantle. Rebuild on the fly, hope one of the three young guys is the answer at QB, and try and build a winning tradition with the current team.
I don't blame the Jets for playing hardball with Fitz, but I never blamed Fitz for hanging tough. His position was never as weak as was written. Jets can't risk the season being over before it started over 5 or 6 million. He's one of the best 32 QBs in the league, and they didn't have one of the other ones.
Jets didn't have the cap space, but teams have a funny way of finding the dollars when they need to.
Whether that's wise or not is debatable, but they have a legit defense, a vet QB, and vet WR. It would be ludicrous for the team to dismantle. Rebuild on the fly, hope one of the three young guys is the answer at QB, and try and build a winning tradition with the current team.
I don't blame the Jets for playing hardball with Fitz, but I never blamed Fitz for hanging tough. His position was never as weak as was written. Jets can't risk the season being over before it started over 5 or 6 million. He's one of the best 32 QBs in the league, and they didn't have one of the other ones.
Jets didn't have the cap space, but teams have a funny way of finding the dollars when they need to.
rockaction
Footballguy
Most of our offensive starters are over thirty. It surely is win time, though the schedule looks rough. Rough enough to hope the defense carries the day over the next few years. We'll see. Williams falling to them was a boon so far, and according to most reports, it looks like he's been great in OTAs.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Yeah, that's really what's scary here. This team is probably 2 years away from needing to replace basically the entire offense.
Fitz is obviously not the long term answer
Neither are Forte or Powell
Marshall is near the end and Decker turns 30 next year
They have no TE
Clady will be 30 in September and has an injury history
Mangold is 32 with a lot of miles. Wouldn't be shocked if he hung em up after this year
Winters isn't any good (although he was better last year)
Giaccomini is 30 already and terrible anyways.
Basically, the only guy who will be under 30 who can play is Carpentar.
They need an infusion of young talent on that side of the ball like yesterday. The cupboard is totally bare/.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I do think it grabbed Fitzpatrick's attention a little.msommer said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The o-line is the biggest issue as RB is pretty easy to replace and I'm not willing to write off guys like Jace Amaro or Devin Smith yet. I see talent there, but injuries and inexperience have slowed them down.
Obviously I have no idea if Hackenberg or Petty is the answer at QB but they are smartly using draft picks to try and solve the issue.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
There's a lot wrong here. It was never impossible to get $12M cleared. It just came with future consequences the Jets were wanting to avoid. The whole "the Jets have no money" was extremely innacurate. It would be much more accurate to say "the Jets don't want to create money now by spending future cap dollars" which, while understandable, wasn't going to accomplish a "win now" goal.TLEF316 said:
If all the three year deal was was a mechanism to spread the cap hit why not offer him 3 years $45M with only $12M of 2016 guaranteed? It spreads the initial signing bonus out exactly the same and comes with the same liabilities if they cut him early. It was absolutely about getting him for backup money in years 2 and 3. It was a chump offer that no one's ever going to accept.
Fitz has made over $30M in his career. He is Harvard educated. He doesn't have to worry about setting his family up financially. This was about getting the best deal he could, just like it is for every other player that's ever negotiated a contract. Drew Brees has made over $100M in his career, why does he keep commanding $20M contracts? Because he can. Period.
The biggest "win" Fitzpatrick got was he got his best 1 year deal he could without getting shackled for two more years. What if he plays exactly as well as he did last year? He's probably up for another shot at a short term starter somewhere (Buffalo, Cleveland, SF, Dallas). Maybe Hackenburg sucks and the Jets bring Fitzpatrick for another year at (bigger) starter money. Maybe God forbid he wins a playoff game or two - now he's really well set up.
It's unlikely anyone takes a pay cut. That's not how NFL teams work. They will likely restructure Revis or Marshall to push the money into 2017.
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Tommy Collins
Footballguy
For those of you in larger leagues or 2 QB leagues, what's the trade market for Fitz right now?
Chaka
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
More like effectively none. I've got Wilson, Tyrod, and Prescott and have been trying to move Fitz since Week 2 ... no takers. One guy even chose to go to war last week with Kessler and Hoyer rather than throw me a WR4 for him.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Love seeing a story like this. 35 year old journeyman backup making the most out of the opportunity, playing lights out and having fun.
Good on him.
Good on him.
Faust
MVP
The return of 'Fitzmagic' is a great story so far this year and his postgame interviews were fantastic.
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NeverEnough
Footballguy
Will Winston get his job back....
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Wow! And against an allegedly decent D
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I don’t know. Will Fitz continue to play at a high level (not necessarily the ridiculously high level he did yesterday)?
Survivor7700
Footballguy
I said last week the Buccs stated that Winston was not guaranteed his starting position back once he returned. If Fitzpatrick continues to play this way and wins at least 2 out of the 3 games Winston will not start once he gets back.
