Is child molestation a federal crime?
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Jerry Sandusky accused of child molestation (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter PoliSciGuy
- Start date
Sea Duck
Footballguy
Maybe you're the one who should pick a lane:LANE #1: Paterno should have known what was going on and should have called the police.LANE #2: Paterno was so out-of-it that child molesters were allowed to run free during his tenure.Both lanes lead directly to Paterno resigning ASAP.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Maybe it is one of those. Or maybe, as so often is the case, the truth lies somewhere in between.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
I've thought the same actually but either reality ends in Joe not being fit to helm this program any more. But at this point, if all he lost is his job, that would be a win. I can see Joe almost not digesting this allegation. But this is also a 74 year old Joe vs an 85 year old one. Each premise you propose isn't necessarily mutually exclusive.
bagger
Footballguy
either way he is a piece of ####.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Most probably not, of course. And I think most states, if not all, have done away with misprision. It just seems like not reporting an eyewitness man on boy buttrape to the cops should be a crime. To me it does, anyway.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
dang...
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Very good points.
HellToupee
Footballguy
I wonder if Joe Pa's "handlers" have explained to him the reality of his situation
what a way to end
what a way to end
gonzobill5
Footballguy
If JoePa comes out tomorrow and gives a heartfelt apology - says something like "I completely screwed up. He was my friend and I didn't want to believe it was true so I tried to block it out. I was in denial and my actions have had serious consequences and for that I'm truly sorry"....would people accept that? Would they believe it?
No and no.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
A quick search shows that maybe not reporting child abuse is a federal crime.Not sure if the facts fit or the law applies to this situation, but I wish it did.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Wow Sandusky still worked out in the teams weight room last week
gonzobill5
Footballguy
Can you think of another example of a situation where our society rejected such an apology?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
That ship sailed long ago.He allowed a predator to continue to enjoy emeritus status at his facilities, and sexual assaults continued unabated for at least 7 more years *(if you think 2002 is the first time JoePA knew anything).
Dragons
Delusions of Grandeur
I don't think most are calling for his prosecution. Most are calling for his resignation, which doesn't require the rule of law.
Sea Duck
Footballguy
Can you think of another example of such an apology? One that came 48 hours after denying any knowledge or favoritism?
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
If there is a way to do it, I want the GA and Paterno and anyone else who covered this up prosecuted.
gonzobill5
Footballguy
There have been so many public apologies that have come after out and out denials (I did not have sexual relations with that woman!) The reason I asked was because our society seems so quick to forgive and forget.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Cheating on your wife and allowing children to get molested are very different things.
shader
Footballguy
I still think the key to JoePa's involvement is what the GA told him. For instance, if the GA told him, "hey coach I saw some inappropriate behavior by Coach Sandusky in the locker room", I could easily see Joe saying "he's not my coach anymore, you need to report it to the athletic director. I would excuse JoePa in that, given his advanced age, etc.
If the GA said "I saw anal rape", then JoePa needs to go down.
Bottom line is that the GA is the one really at fault in this. If I were to actually SEE what he saw occur, I wouldn't think about chain of command, telling my boss, or any of that crap. I'd put an end to it immediately and then I'd go straight to the cops.
If the GA said "I saw anal rape", then JoePa needs to go down.
Bottom line is that the GA is the one really at fault in this. If I were to actually SEE what he saw occur, I wouldn't think about chain of command, telling my boss, or any of that crap. I'd put an end to it immediately and then I'd go straight to the cops.
simey
Footballguy
Society is just as quick to accuse and pass judgement before the real truth is known.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Exactly. Child molesters make adulterous filth like MOP look like saints.
I certainly see your point of view, although if he was aware of anything that happened he should be held to a high level of responsibility for the lack of prompt reporting. I would be shocked if he told others to maintain silence. Like so many threads in these parts we have lost focus on who committed these outrageous acts. Many more comments on JoPa than Sandusky seems a bit misguided. When I see posters that consistantly post in Steeler threads, and have defended Harrison and Big Ben, it causes me to wonder the motivation of some.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Read page 7 of the grand jury report. The GA is saying he told everyone the details. Paterno says he told him some "fondling or something of a sexual nature" took place, so that is what JoePa reported to the AD, etc. The whole idea that Paterno and these other clowns are now claiming "oh, if we had really known what happened we would have done something" is vile and despicable and completely dishonest.
gonzobill5
Footballguy
What about killing dogs? Beating your wife? How do those compare?
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Thanks. And I agree with the bold. I doubt he did, but you never know. It will certainly all come out eventually.
Sleeping problems should have started long before this case went public.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
What really sucks for me on a personal level, aside from the absolute disgust, is that I lost a friend who was a Penn State graduate in the spring. He was 34 years old and never smoked a cigarette in his life when he was diagnosed with Stage 4 lung cancer. He hung on for a year after multiple operations and living in a massive back brace after they removed 3 vertebrae with tumors on them early after the diagnosis. I had really been happy about the PS team doing well this year as a small tribute to the untimely loss of a 35 year old father, who succumbed after almost exactly a hard fought year after diagnosis. He played lacrosse, not football, but still he was a huge fan during the college football season. Having this year be the tarnished year, well, it's exceptionally disappointing on top of all the feelings that the actual crimes draw forth.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Sorry to hear that.
Sea Duck
Footballguy
I think that if it had been a less-revered head coach, the grand jury would have questioned his testimony and pressed harder for answers, and might have indicted him for perjury just like Curley.
CrossEyed
Footballguy
He was still conducting overnight camps as late as 2009 and was working out in their weight room last week.I'm guessing that these guys had the feeling that they were untouchable and above the law. You know, what happens at PSU stays at PSU.
Mad Cow
Welshers and Dawdlers Beware!
So what if PSU has received Federal funding for projects?
David Dodds
Administrator
The crimes are not similar so I hesitate to even bring up this story as I am not trying to make light of the actions of those who saw this...I think that it was despicable that the police were not contacted immediately over this.
But it might be pretty standard protocol to bring matters up the chain of command at a University. I say this as I worked at a military installation and can cite this case while I was there:
A co-worker and I head out to the back parking lot and we see my friends car door open with a pair of legs hanging out of it. We bum rush the vehicle and catch a military person (working for security) actively stealing the car stereo. We get his name off his badge and report it to our Department Head. He then proceeds to call the Department of Security that we will be filing a police report. The Head of Security says that will get this kid a dishonorable discharge if a police report is filed (that event on a base like the Weapons Station will trigger a court-martial and that was the likely outcome in his view) and pulls the card that security matters on base will be handled by Security without police involvement. My Department Head says no to that crap, but before he can call the police, he is called into the Captain's office who runs the base. Bottom line: No police report was filed. Kid was reprimanded in some fashion, but he remained working for Security for the remaining months of his tour.
Again not trying to compare the crimes here at all. But I bet at most universities they are suppose to call superiors in their chain of command before invoking police. I am not saying that is right at all, but it likely is policy.
But it might be pretty standard protocol to bring matters up the chain of command at a University. I say this as I worked at a military installation and can cite this case while I was there:
A co-worker and I head out to the back parking lot and we see my friends car door open with a pair of legs hanging out of it. We bum rush the vehicle and catch a military person (working for security) actively stealing the car stereo. We get his name off his badge and report it to our Department Head. He then proceeds to call the Department of Security that we will be filing a police report. The Head of Security says that will get this kid a dishonorable discharge if a police report is filed (that event on a base like the Weapons Station will trigger a court-martial and that was the likely outcome in his view) and pulls the card that security matters on base will be handled by Security without police involvement. My Department Head says no to that crap, but before he can call the police, he is called into the Captain's office who runs the base. Bottom line: No police report was filed. Kid was reprimanded in some fashion, but he remained working for Security for the remaining months of his tour.
Again not trying to compare the crimes here at all. But I bet at most universities they are suppose to call superiors in their chain of command before invoking police. I am not saying that is right at all, but it likely is policy.
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Sea Duck
Footballguy
Crazy lawyer is the guilty man's last resort.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Thanks. Apparently the family is looking into the fact that his hometown in Mass seems to be a cancer cluster area. He did more good, both as a speaker and as a testee for new treatments, in his last year than I've ever done. As well as him continuing to direct short films while sick, and had an award winning documentary with the help of his Criminal Minds actors and friends (now named after him) made about his fight. I took a little pride in the Bruins winning the Stanley Cup.
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mad sweeney
Footballguy
I'm guessing many will.
gonzobill5
Footballguy
I wonder how much it will hurt their admissions in general.
Admissions, Donations, Research Project Partnerships, you name it - everything that is the lifeblood of a university. Their name is mud right now, and Spanier is just making it worse.'gonzobill5 said:
Penn State’s Spanier silent at wrong time
Over 16 years as Penn State’s president Graham Spanier earned a reputation for rarely turning down a media opportunity, no subject unworthy of his comment. He was known for never hesitating to personally call wealthy alums when a fundraising goal needed to be met.
You could hardly find an NCAA committee he didn’t sit on, if not chair, a chance to extend his influence beyond just State College. He’s done guest stints with the marching band, participated in intramural tournaments and run with the bulls wearing a Penn State shirt, lots of look-at-me everyman stuff.
Affable, likable and always available Graham Spanier was everywhere.
On Saturday the world collapsed around Penn State with the breaking of a sexual molestation and systematic cover-up case inside its athletic department. It’s left former football assistant Jerry Sandusky facing a slew of assault charges and athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz accused of perjury and failure to report the abuse of a minor.
The campus is overrun with anger, accusation and satellite trucks. Across the country Penn State is the center of the ugliest scandal college athletics has ever seen. The whole thing is a disaster, hour by hour sinking even deeper and deeper.
And Graham Spanier is suddenly nowhere to be found.
Not a spoken word from Mr. President. Not a single interview with the media he once courted. Not a speech. Not a rally. Not a meaningful explanation to his students and alumni.
Penn State is desperate for a leader, desperate for some stability, desperate for an adult to stand up tall like the school always thought it would and Spanier is somewhere under a desk, hiding.
[Related: Forde: At Penn State, doubt and pain]
The focus has zeroed in on Joe Paterno, the school’s legendary football coach. And while there are plenty of unanswered questions about his decision-making, it isn’t JoePa who runs the place. It’s not JoePa who oversees the entire campus, police department included. It wasn’t JoePa who signed off on the pathetic decision by Curley and Schultz to simply ban Sandusky from bringing children on campus rather than contact the cops.
“Call the police immediately,” Pennsylvania State Police Commissioner Frank Noonan said Monday. “How difficult is that? It’s not a high standard.”
Joe Paterno will do his weekly media obligations as scheduled on Tuesday, a Big Ten teleconference and then his usual press briefing. Penn State will try to keep the questions to football-only (good luck with that) but the old coach is at least willing to show his face in public.
Who knows where Spanier will be? Who knows where he has been? How do Sunday and Monday, two of the worst days the school will ever know, cruise by without a peep from its president?
There are as many questions about Spanier’s decision-making as Paterno’s, but all we’ve gotten from Spanier is a bizarre, inappropriate and heartless statement on Saturday.
“The allegations about a former coach are troubling, and it is appropriate that they be investigated thoroughly,” it read. “Protecting children requires the utmost vigilance.
“With regard to the other presentments, I wish to say that Tim Curley and Gary Schultz have my unconditional support. I have known and worked daily with Tim and Gary for more than 16 years. I have complete confidence in how they have handled the allegations about a former University employee.
“Tim Curley and Gary Schultz operate at the highest levels of honesty, integrity and compassion. I am confident the record will show that these charges are groundless and that they conducted themselves professionally and appropriately.”
That’s it. That’s all of it. Perhaps the biggest scandal higher education has ever seen and that’s what Spanier thought was all he needed to convey.
“The views of the President do not reflect the views of the students,” read a sign hanging on campus Monday.
In his statement Spanier expressed no concern for the victims. He conveyed no shock or regret that some of the alleged molestations occurred on his campus. There was no horror over the nature of the crimes. No apology for not doing more. No explanation for why he didn’t ask more questions, which may have led to someone demanding that they find the abused boy so at the very, very least they could ensure his safety and offer him the counseling he no doubt needed.
Nope. Nothing. Just nothing.
All he did was offer “unconditional support” for his two employees, an unfathomable line at this time. Unconditional? Really? So if Curley and Schultz are guilty then Spanier will still support them? That’s the definition of “unconditional.”
“A university president defending an indicted employee?” Pennsylvania State Sen. Jeffrey Piccola told the Harrisburg Patriot-News. “I mean, he shouldn’t make any judgment on guilt or innocence. That’s not his role. He needs to distance himself from that.”
Spanier has distanced himself from everything since then. It’s like he’s figures if he keeps his head down long enough, the blame will fall on everyone but him.
On Monday Attorney General Linda Kelly was definitive in saying Paterno is not a target in the on-going investigation. When asked about Spanier, she wouldn’t comment.
The grand jury’s “finding of fact” said Spanier did not know that the incident involving Sandusky was sexual in nature. Kelly, however, noted that he was the final administrator that “reviewed and approved … without further inquiry on his part” the unusual decision by Curley and Schultz to ban Sandusky bringing children on campus. Wouldn’t that be a red flag that might spur additional questions?
[Related: Jerry Sandusky was at Penn State last week]
Spanier himself never called the cops, not even the Penn State’s own force, which just four years prior had conducted a lengthy investigation into other molestation accusations against Sandusky.
In 2002 did Spanier know about the 1998 inquiry?
“That investigation was handled by Penn State University’s police department,” Kelly said, the emphasis clear in her voice.
Perhaps Spanier is hiding out because he fears saying anything might cause him to be prosecuted. If so, then he’s not fit for the job. He must seek at least a temporary leave, if not a full resignation. The school needs someone credible to be in charge.
Instead Spanier seems intent on saving his own career rather than Penn State’s reputation.
The one silver lining of this ugly story has been the reaction of the Penn State family at large. This is a proud university, one where integrity meant something, and the scandal has been met not with excuse making but appropriate disgust.
Failed by its leaders, the community is rising up. This isn’t the real Penn State everyone is saying. This isn’t what we’re about, what we’ll ever, ever tolerate. Through these most trying of times, the rank and file – students, faculty, parents, alums – have fallen back on a shared sense of values, ethics and purpose. They won’t allow this to define their school.
It’s the best coming out of the worst.
It’d be a fine message for Spanier to express, someone to show there is a steady hand on the rudder as the storm rages. Instead he’s failing every test of leadership.
No explanations. No accountability. No apologies.
There’s been just a single abhorrent statement, self-centered and inappropriate, unconditional support for the accused, no mention of those victimized kids.
Instead the plan appears to be to send Joe Paterno out there, 84-years-old and hard of hearing. Let JoePa be the face of this thing. Let JoePa handle the fire, answer the questions, get picked apart by the national media. Let all be about JoePa.
Graham Spanier has more important duties. There’s a desk in State College that needs hiding under.
You could hardly find an NCAA committee he didn’t sit on, if not chair, a chance to extend his influence beyond just State College. He’s done guest stints with the marching band, participated in intramural tournaments and run with the bulls wearing a Penn State shirt, lots of look-at-me everyman stuff.
Affable, likable and always available Graham Spanier was everywhere.
On Saturday the world collapsed around Penn State with the breaking of a sexual molestation and systematic cover-up case inside its athletic department. It’s left former football assistant Jerry Sandusky facing a slew of assault charges and athletic director Tim Curley and vice president Gary Schultz accused of perjury and failure to report the abuse of a minor.
The campus is overrun with anger, accusation and satellite trucks. Across the country Penn State is the center of the ugliest scandal college athletics has ever seen. The whole thing is a disaster, hour by hour sinking even deeper and deeper.
And Graham Spanier is suddenly nowhere to be found.
Not a spoken word from Mr. President. Not a single interview with the media he once courted. Not a speech. Not a rally. Not a meaningful explanation to his students and alumni.
Penn State is desperate for a leader, desperate for some stability, desperate for an adult to stand up tall like the school always thought it would and Spanier is somewhere under a desk, hiding.
[Related: Forde: At Penn State, doubt and pain]
The focus has zeroed in on Joe Paterno, the school’s legendary football coach. And while there are plenty of unanswered questions about his decision-making, it isn’t JoePa who runs the place. It’s not JoePa who oversees the entire campus, police department included. It wasn’t JoePa who signed off on the pathetic decision by Curley and Schultz to simply ban Sandusky from bringing children on campus rather than contact the cops.
“Call the police immediately,” Pennsylvania State Police Commissioner Frank Noonan said Monday. “How difficult is that? It’s not a high standard.”
Joe Paterno will do his weekly media obligations as scheduled on Tuesday, a Big Ten teleconference and then his usual press briefing. Penn State will try to keep the questions to football-only (good luck with that) but the old coach is at least willing to show his face in public.
Who knows where Spanier will be? Who knows where he has been? How do Sunday and Monday, two of the worst days the school will ever know, cruise by without a peep from its president?
There are as many questions about Spanier’s decision-making as Paterno’s, but all we’ve gotten from Spanier is a bizarre, inappropriate and heartless statement on Saturday.
“The allegations about a former coach are troubling, and it is appropriate that they be investigated thoroughly,” it read. “Protecting children requires the utmost vigilance.
“With regard to the other presentments, I wish to say that Tim Curley and Gary Schultz have my unconditional support. I have known and worked daily with Tim and Gary for more than 16 years. I have complete confidence in how they have handled the allegations about a former University employee.
“Tim Curley and Gary Schultz operate at the highest levels of honesty, integrity and compassion. I am confident the record will show that these charges are groundless and that they conducted themselves professionally and appropriately.”
That’s it. That’s all of it. Perhaps the biggest scandal higher education has ever seen and that’s what Spanier thought was all he needed to convey.
“The views of the President do not reflect the views of the students,” read a sign hanging on campus Monday.
In his statement Spanier expressed no concern for the victims. He conveyed no shock or regret that some of the alleged molestations occurred on his campus. There was no horror over the nature of the crimes. No apology for not doing more. No explanation for why he didn’t ask more questions, which may have led to someone demanding that they find the abused boy so at the very, very least they could ensure his safety and offer him the counseling he no doubt needed.
Nope. Nothing. Just nothing.
All he did was offer “unconditional support” for his two employees, an unfathomable line at this time. Unconditional? Really? So if Curley and Schultz are guilty then Spanier will still support them? That’s the definition of “unconditional.”
“A university president defending an indicted employee?” Pennsylvania State Sen. Jeffrey Piccola told the Harrisburg Patriot-News. “I mean, he shouldn’t make any judgment on guilt or innocence. That’s not his role. He needs to distance himself from that.”
Spanier has distanced himself from everything since then. It’s like he’s figures if he keeps his head down long enough, the blame will fall on everyone but him.
On Monday Attorney General Linda Kelly was definitive in saying Paterno is not a target in the on-going investigation. When asked about Spanier, she wouldn’t comment.
The grand jury’s “finding of fact” said Spanier did not know that the incident involving Sandusky was sexual in nature. Kelly, however, noted that he was the final administrator that “reviewed and approved … without further inquiry on his part” the unusual decision by Curley and Schultz to ban Sandusky bringing children on campus. Wouldn’t that be a red flag that might spur additional questions?
[Related: Jerry Sandusky was at Penn State last week]
Spanier himself never called the cops, not even the Penn State’s own force, which just four years prior had conducted a lengthy investigation into other molestation accusations against Sandusky.
In 2002 did Spanier know about the 1998 inquiry?
“That investigation was handled by Penn State University’s police department,” Kelly said, the emphasis clear in her voice.
Perhaps Spanier is hiding out because he fears saying anything might cause him to be prosecuted. If so, then he’s not fit for the job. He must seek at least a temporary leave, if not a full resignation. The school needs someone credible to be in charge.
Instead Spanier seems intent on saving his own career rather than Penn State’s reputation.
The one silver lining of this ugly story has been the reaction of the Penn State family at large. This is a proud university, one where integrity meant something, and the scandal has been met not with excuse making but appropriate disgust.
Failed by its leaders, the community is rising up. This isn’t the real Penn State everyone is saying. This isn’t what we’re about, what we’ll ever, ever tolerate. Through these most trying of times, the rank and file – students, faculty, parents, alums – have fallen back on a shared sense of values, ethics and purpose. They won’t allow this to define their school.
It’s the best coming out of the worst.
It’d be a fine message for Spanier to express, someone to show there is a steady hand on the rudder as the storm rages. Instead he’s failing every test of leadership.
No explanations. No accountability. No apologies.
There’s been just a single abhorrent statement, self-centered and inappropriate, unconditional support for the accused, no mention of those victimized kids.
Instead the plan appears to be to send Joe Paterno out there, 84-years-old and hard of hearing. Let JoePa be the face of this thing. Let JoePa handle the fire, answer the questions, get picked apart by the national media. Let all be about JoePa.
Graham Spanier has more important duties. There’s a desk in State College that needs hiding under.
Donny Loved Bowling
Footballguy
So many people ready to crucify Paterno... tell me, is it more because "he should have known" or because he did not report McQueary's allegations to the police himself? There seems to be some inconsistency in exactly how detailed an account McQueary gave to JoePa. I imagine this will be cleared up once Paterno is on the witness stand. I'm thinking that - regardless of the severity - if a coworker came to me and told me that he saw another colleague of ours commit a crime, I would be somewhat hesitant to call the police and report something I did not witness myself. I think reporting it to an internal investigating body would be appropriate, assuming that I believed they were operating in good faith. Sure, we're all horrified now that the deatils are out there, but what if Paterno had called police to report an untrue allegation that he had no firsthand knowledge of? Would that be responsible? I just don't read his actions as passing the buck. McQueary's inaction is much more sickening, if he in fact witnessed a rape and simply went home to call his dad instead of actively intervening.
whoknew
Footballguy
We are going over the same thing over and over but its not necessarily Paterno's initial action that is so reprehensible. Its that - after it was clear the University was going to do nothing about it - he still did nothing.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
The word in the title should be "molestation."
Just sayin'.
Just sayin'.
