mad sweeney
Footballguy
Dunno if you're just saying this to get at ITS, but I this is the first thing in here I on which I disagree with you. Jackson was kept around in case Wilson wasn't capable of being the backup.
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QB Russell Wilson, PIT (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter ImTheScientist
- Start date
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I am still one who thinks Flynn should have been named starter from the get go. They should have given him all the reps and given him an opportunity to create a chemistry with the first stringers. Wilson has had a great preseason, but I don't think he is as ready to lead the team into regular season action as Flynn is. However, Carroll created this competition and this situation that can become volatile for both QB's. It appears that Wilson has won out and therefore it may cause some issues down the road.Young QB's should be given opportunity to play through mistakes and learn from them. If and when Wilson struggles as all rookie qb's do, people will be wanting Flynn to get in there. Flynn may have a good run and then have some bad play himself. Do you then go back to Wilson or stay with Flynn? I just don't see this setting up well for Seattle.I don't know how many teams that play the QB carousel end up seeing positive return. Of course this is all a moot point if Wilson is actually as good as he has been.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
This is the statement I don't get. And I knew someone might say this.Russell Wilson is as experienced in this O as Matt Flynn. Russell Wilson has what 2-3 less NFL starts?? Do the Green Bay starts really matter at this point?? 2-3 NFL start advantage over Wilson -- so it's not an on field edge Flynn has. Has Flynn spent more time passing to Rice[inj]? to Edwards[FA]? to TO[FA]? So there's no chemistry advantages there. It's been stated QB's have been splitting reps all camp long.
Why isn't Russell Wilson as ready? Give some reasons here. Is he not as talented?
I love what Carroll's done here. Making everyone earn everything. From guys like Edwards/TO to Winslow/Miller to these QB's. He's carried his college mindset (everyone earns everything) to the pro's. And is the reason he's beloved by players and will continue to be.
I think Carroll's done one hell of a day from Day 1 with this franchise.
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Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Carroll has not had success prior to Seattle and has a losing record with Seattle to date. It appears that brighter days are ahead, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. I don't know how beloved by his players Carroll is at the NFL level.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
He dominated at USC and has a playoff victory under his belt w/ Seattle in his first two seasons. Im not sure I agree w/ anything you said except "brighter days are ahead".
cr8f
Footballguy
What I don't understand is why he didn't start Wilson last week. I would think that would give him more options now. Now if he starts Flynn next week the decision wouldn't be made until after week 4. That may work but most teams would like to know the starter earlier.Of course (like you said) all we can do is speculate because we're not in meetings.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
it's quite possible that Pete made a mistake last week and isn't handling this the best way possible, but what I like about him is that he accepts mistakes and moves on. He isn't one to stick to a mistake to salvage his ego and not want to admit defeat. If something doesn't work, he fixes it and moves on.
Wilson will be the starter. Not only has he performed better, qbs like him potentially can completely revitalize fanbases and make lots of $$$$ for the team. Even if Carroll wanted to start Flynn, and judging by the fact that Wilson got the start last week I don't think he does, the higher ups will not go for it.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
What higher ups ? The 3rd or 4th richest man in America? Seattle has supported the team rabidly through thick and thin. Allen doesn't meddle, he lets football guys make football decisions. This will be Carroll's call, 100% and the entire FO and above will support him 100%. It's a great situation for an unorthodox coach (and GM) to thrive in. The jury is out on how well it works long term but do far, so good.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Fantasy "experts" say some really dumb things sometimes. Last week on Sirius, Michael Fabiano said that Pete Carroll would lose all credibility if he named Wilson his starting QB after the team gave Flynn that nice contract.
Wrong. He would lose all credibility if he didn't start the better player.
Wrong. He would lose all credibility if he didn't start the better player.
There is more money to made...Seahawks are not a popular franchise nationally. As far as Allen goes, I am not even talking about him...there are plenty of professionals who work in the Seahawks org who would have a whole hell of a lot of production if the team had a bonifide star at quarterback. If this was a close decision, I could see Flynn getting the start. Remember that initially, they were going to give TJack a shot and Wilson was coming in to be the 3...TJack never even made it out of the garage once they saw Wilson at OTAs.
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ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Franchise does well and shows improvement. The numbers are given to Allen. Allen says....yes, great job guys...And then the people at the top get raises.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Jackson wasnt ever getting a shot unless Wilson and Portis flopped. The Seahawks organization needs no boost such that it would actually influence the coaching decisions and Carroll has almost true autonomy, even final say over the GM in personnel decisions. A winning team is better than a star QB. The only thing that will influence who starts is what Carroll thinks of the QBs. Period.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Cam Newton ended pretty well last year. I expect Wilson to be around QB10-12 w/ all those weapons and his rushing ability.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
When you hear him in interviews its pretty clear he is enamored with Wilson.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
He also talked well of Jackson. I don't rely much on coach speak.
solorca
Footballguy
Where did you see him at 15th? The highest ranking I see on the site is 22 (although that may be a little outdated).Wilson has me in a tough spot. I already have Matt Ryan as my starting QB, along with Jake Locker at backup. I took a flier on Wilson just to see how things played out this week, so I now have three quarterbacks and I'm not willing to cut any of them...even though there are some guys on the waiver wire I'd really like to pick up.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Again, when you hear him in interviews its pretty clear he is enamored with Wilson. I don't rely on coach speak, I rely on reading between the lines. Pro Tip: There are nuggets that can be pulled out of any interview....just have to be willing to listen.
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ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Im a UW husky alumn.....love Locker...but I would keep Wilson over him. I haven't seen any proof that Locker's accuracy has improved. I wish it had and thought it may by being coached up in the NFL but from what I have seen this preseason he still has the same issues.
flc735
Footballguy
im in a 16 team dyno league where my only qb is flynnwilson owner has romo, cassel and has zero rb depth behind sjax and cj2ki offered vereen for wilson, it was rejectedi said i will offer m bush for wilson if he is named the starter. he said that's likely but he could very well change his mind if/when that time comesi just finished a 12 team dyno rookie draft right before the sea/kc game. wilson was not drafted in our 4 rounds. he would be if we redrafted. probably in the 3rd
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Amazing insight you have. So insightful you didn't even notice that I didn't disagree with you. Truly your intellect is astounding.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
With his running ability. (I'm projecting bit over 30 yrds/game on the ground. ~500 yards on year with 6 rush TD's)He really doesn't have to be that good passing to finish QB15 at all. He puts up 2011 Tavaris pass yards, he's pushing QB12 territory.
bonesman
Footballguy
Draft Dominator
cr8f
Footballguy
When they got him in the draft last year it was high fives around. That scene led me to believe he would get a real chance this year.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
It was Philbin's decision?
??!?!Um...Are we not all operating under the premise that having a star qb actually means your team is winning. If the team does poorly, then he will not be regarded as a star.
Abraham
Footballguy
Who else in the league has a ceiling of 6 Tds in one game?
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Having a star QB and winning are not assured handcuffs. My point though, is that the impetus from above on Carroll to field one guy over another based on how many jerseys he'd sell is non-existent. If Pete decides Flynn's the guy and the team wins then that's the goal, not forcing Carroll to put in a guy he doesn't feel is ready just because fans love him. Don't lose track of the point of a conversation. There have been plenty of star QBs on teams that weren't winning all that much, btw.
Flynn's ceiling is not 6 TDs in a game. I would bet that it's the only 6 TD game that Flynn will ever have in his career.
IheartGuinness
Footballguy
Sign me up. I doubted him coming out of college because of his height (and I'm a Badger fan), but he has a versatility Flynn doesn't (and I'm a Packer fan, too). When are people targeting him in redraft leagues?
What qbs are stars that don't win? To me... you can point to someone like Cam, but in reality he won more than expected last year, and this year people expect a winning record...there are other guys who sometimes have a down year, but in the end are expected to win.
MSULions
Footballguy
first of all, I was being pretty sarcastic there as I'm obviously a Spartan fan and was just having some fun. Yes, I saw plenty of Wilson at Wisconsin, and even NC State. He was a fantastic college QB, but I think ultimately the fact that he's 5'10" (if that, i've stood next to the guy, he's small) limits his potential. He may be the guy to break the rule, but there just isn't much of a precedent to expect him to succeed at this level. He benefited from a tremendous overall offense at UW, but he didn't really play any outstanding Ds other than MSU - and had picks in both games that seemed "uncharacteristic" - and then was stifled in the Rose Bowl when again up against elite competition. I have the utmost respect for what he did last year, and think he's a great guy and wish him the best, but having watched him all year I just don't see him having long term success in the NFL. The Preseason means very little to me in this and any other example as well. The Lions went 4-0 in 2008...how'd that season go?
cr8f
Footballguy
More sarcasm? At the combine they measured him at 5'10 5/8. They don't let you get away without being measured there.He has adjusted his game due to his height. A lot of people have opinions on him and his height like they did with Flutie. I wonder what Flutie would have accomplished had he been on a team where he wasn't replaced with poorer quality but taller players like in Buffalo.
We all have opinions, but let it go. In time we'll see what he'll be able to do.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Wins and losses don't matter in preseason but individual performances do.
Crazysight
Footballguy
Like in New England and Buffalo. New England was where he would have been during all of those years when he dominated the CFL. I was a huge Flutie fan back then, he nearly single handedly got the Patriots into the playoffs when Eason was hurt. When Eason came back they sat Flutie and then were promptly eliminated from the playoffs. Flutie went on after that season to become the greatest player in CFL history, while the Pats sucked butt for the next decade, their wins could usually be counted on one hand, sometimes one finger, and never even sniffed the playoffs until after Bledsoe was drafted. You'd think Buffalo might have learned something from that, but guess not.
I think Wilson will be very successful, but I do think he will struggle in certain matchups. A team like the Giants would present him a big problem I believe given their D-line's ability to penetrate and skill at batting balls at the line with their huge linemen. Still a guy who is obviously a gamer in the way Wilson is shouldn't necessarily be completely counted out against anyone. He did break the NCAA record last year for QB rank in a season while running a pro-style offense. Luck was the next closest pro-style QB and had a ranking that was 20 something points fewer (RGIII was only a point or two fewer but didn't run a pro-style offense). Who really knows what this guy can do, he's really an enigma at this point and should be fun to watch.
I think Wilson will be very successful, but I do think he will struggle in certain matchups. A team like the Giants would present him a big problem I believe given their D-line's ability to penetrate and skill at batting balls at the line with their huge linemen. Still a guy who is obviously a gamer in the way Wilson is shouldn't necessarily be completely counted out against anyone. He did break the NCAA record last year for QB rank in a season while running a pro-style offense. Luck was the next closest pro-style QB and had a ranking that was 20 something points fewer (RGIII was only a point or two fewer but didn't run a pro-style offense). Who really knows what this guy can do, he's really an enigma at this point and should be fun to watch.
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ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Wilson is nothing like Flutie....stop comparing the two. It would be like comparing Cam Newton and Andrew Luck because they had the same 40 time at the combine. They have different games.Wilson is 1" shorter than Brees and Vick. To suggest he cannot succeed because of 1" means you listen to the ESPN talking heads too much. Watch the guy play. He has NO ISSUE seeing downfield, stands straight up in the pocket and has a high release point. If you watch him throw and measured release points Im willing to bet his is higher than Ryan Tannehills. He has freakishly long arms and huge hands. His hands were second largest at the combine...The only problem is 1" or 2".... give me Wilson all day. He has a chip on his shoulder and guys like you will who doubt him because of his height are going to look silly time and time again.ETA: Don't waffle on your statements. Seems like at one point you say you like him, then you say he will struggle. Make up your mind.
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Abraham
Footballguy
Your ETA is one of the things wrong around here. People waffle all the time. As they should. Being definitive about things like this (a third round rookie with one preseason start) is silly. And chastasing someone for looking at all angles is exactly the sort of thing that runs people off who are looking for reasonable discussion.
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Insoxicated
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Insoxicated
I don't say this often, but would you please shaddup? You're like a timchochets overconfident napoleon-complex riddled little brother in this thread. Settle down man.... Seriously. Nobody is peeing on your shoe... We are just talking football. Relax.
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ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Wilson was just named the starter.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
gotta respect Pete carroll
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nysportsfan
Footballguy
Tis is such a great story. I iwhs i knew more about him other than what I have read. How likely is it he rushes for 500+? Can he have seven tds on the ground? Hate the bockering, and it is hard to find the information.
Make your case for him or move on,please.
Make your case for him or move on,please.
solorca
Footballguy
Typing on a phone is such a pain in the ###
I own Wilson in one league and really don't have much invested in him, but I would be lying if I said that he wasn't the most entertaining aspect of this preseason. I'm glad he won the job, only because watching him play is entertaining as hell.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
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Scooby1974
Footballguy
'[icon] said:
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