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WR Josh Gordon, KC (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
Alonzo Mosely
Footballguy
Alonzo Mosely
Footballguy
Alonzo Mosely
Footballguy
The very laws that make drug usage a crime give those cartels the power/incentive to do what they do.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
It may have been posted on here. I don't have time to sift through the bickering in this thread. But Gordon just posted on his Instagram "Coming to an arena near you 11.23.14"
http://instagram.com/p/s9ZgUiQjXe/
http://instagram.com/p/s9ZgUiQjXe/
The Ray Rice situation speaks to the value of optics. The NFL was happy with him getting two games until the video got leaked. Now the NFL is launching "an investigation" which is another show. (interestingly, the NFLPA is launching its own investigation)
In a fluid situation, with nothing set in stone, these side issues do come into play and could weaken the NFL's resolve to be so rigid.
One of issues with HGH that was being negotiated was a players ability to challenge the science of the tests. If the new agreement gave JG any right to re-appeal by challenging the science or going to a third party, he would win IMHO. Two tubes from the same sample - one showing 16 and another 13.5...within margin of error, It's hard to say he was definitely over the limit, and maybe it's more probable he was under
Alonzo Mosely
Footballguy
But the "optics" you speak of have nothing to do with Gordon.
The NFL doesn't think that lightening up on their weed policy will make them look better with regards to their handling of Rice's situation. It's ridiculous to suggest this is the case, yet many of the Gordon-ites do so, despite the fact that all evidence suggest otherwise.
If I've read the rules correctly then stage 3 players will be in stage 3 for the rest of their careers and it involves up to 10 unscheduled drug tests per month. Given Gordon's history I'm not very confident that my "savvy" acquisition will pay off unless I can unload him. Hope my league mates aren't reading this.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
In a move that makes absolutely no sense, I just traded for him in a dynasty league. At a pretty considerable price.
you don't think having a guy like ADP playing and only having initially suspended Ray Rice for two days (after allegedly already having had the tape in its possession) contrasted with suspending a guy for most of season over second hand smoke which had at levels where he would have passed a drug trust to be an air traffic controller is not bad "optics" and will not be harped on by the media and will not cause pressure to build on Goodell, then you are the one that is simply ignoring facts and not the so-called "Gordon-ites"
What pressure? What evidence of this "pressure" is there? Just because you think Goodell is under this pressure doesn't mean he is. And, more importantly, there is ZERO evidence that this "pressure" has had even an iota of influence on Gordon's situation.
The facts are:
Rice got off easy.
Public backlash.
Gordon got the suspension called for by the CBA.
Gordon appealed.
Gordon's appeal was denied.
How do you look at those facts and say the pressure Goodell was under due to Rice influenced the Gordon situation? Gordon got EXACTLY the same punishment he would have gotten if Rice had never touched his fiancee/wife.
Please explain, using FACTS, not saying "he should feel pressure." Show PROOF of this pressure. Show how he went easier on Gordon b/c of the Rice/ADP situation.
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Unfortunately, I don't think the general public gives a #### about Gordon and hence you're unlikely to see his case contrasted with the others you mentioned. And I would note that this is coming from a person who feels strongly that Gordon's suspension is unjust.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Just traded for him in my 16 team dynasty league........yeah, yeah, yeah nobody cares about my team.
The only news about Josh Gordon - and granted there isn't room for much - is that he is going to have his suspension reduced. I haven't heard anyone on mainstream media talking about the injustice of it. Not ESPN, not NFL Network. And regular news outlets haven't any idea what's going on here. When the agreement is finally sealed we may hear how HGH testing is now agreed to. And nothing more until the positive tests start popping.
Pressure:
Maureen Dowd and Keith Olbermann are already calling for Goodell's resignation
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/maureen-dowd-throw-the-bums-out.html?_r=0
fact:
a new CBA agreement is currently being negotiated, the terms of which are unknown, although certain things have been "leaked" but their accuracy and this CBA are not set in stone
fact:
Appeals under the current, potentially soon to be discarded, CBA go to the NFL. SI the NFL a fair arbitrator of punishments handed out by the NFL? Those guys report to Goodell. Will the new CBA have a new appeals process or potentially disinterested arbitrators? UNKNOWN
Because there will potentially be a CBA and because we don't know what the CBA will say, and because the negotiation process is ongoing, those things matter.
Exactly. We have unofficial reports that Gordon is going to have his suspension reduced, and that is not a commissioner act, but it would be the results of negotiations between the league and the NFLPA over a new drug policy.
There is ZERO indication that Goodell or the NFL has succumbed to any pressure to go easy on Gordon b/c of the Rice/ADP situations. Only Gordon-ites who have been/still are clinging to ridiculous theories about when/if he returns from suspension think that, because there is no basis for it.
The article you linked doesn't mention Josh Gordon or the NFL substance abuse policy. So, that's not proof of Gordon's situation being impacted by any pressure the NFL or Goodell is/are under. How are you going to cite an article as proof of something when it doesn't discuss the issue at hand?
The negotiations between the NFL and the NFLPA have nothing to do with the personel conduct policy or domestic abuse (which falls under the personal conduct policy).
Do you even understand what we are talking about?
I'll stipulate that Goodell is under pressure with regards to the NFL's handling of Rice's situation and domestic abuse cases. What I'm saying, AGAIN, is that this pressure, and the Rice/ADP situations have absolutely no bearing on the Gordon situation, or the negotiations going on between the NFL and NFLPA about the drug policies.
You keep citing/discussing instances that talk/cover the two issues separately, but you provide no evidence that shows any link between the two of them. Do you know why that is?
Because there is no link between them.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
VaTerp
Footballguy
I've made my position on the NFL's marijuana policy very clear in this thread but I think the optics of comparing it to the Ray Rice suspension are being overblown.
The optics are easy with Rice. A video of a man cold cocking his significant other in an elevator then kicking her leg in half hearted attempted to move he unconscious body are undeniably horrendous. Cut and dry.
The optics and public opinion on marijuana use and, even though many refuse to admit it, Adrian Peterson, are not nearly as cut and dry. For that reason the social and political pressure in those situations are much more complicated than with Rice. There is no real net benefit to the league's PR machine by reducing Gordon's suspension.
The optics are easy with Rice. A video of a man cold cocking his significant other in an elevator then kicking her leg in half hearted attempted to move he unconscious body are undeniably horrendous. Cut and dry.
The optics and public opinion on marijuana use and, even though many refuse to admit it, Adrian Peterson, are not nearly as cut and dry. For that reason the social and political pressure in those situations are much more complicated than with Rice. There is no real net benefit to the league's PR machine by reducing Gordon's suspension.
Still waiting on any evidence that the pressure Goodell is under has impacted, IN ANY WAY, Josh Gordon's situation.
Under the current policy, Gordon was supposed to be suspended for a year. He is.
Under the new policy, Gordon is (by most reports) supposed to be suspended for 10 games. The report is that he will be suspended.......10 games.
So, if the pressure Goodell is facing b/c of the Rice situation is impacting his handling of Gordon, how come Gordon is getting EXACTLY the prescribed punishment under the current policy, and EXACTLY the reported prescribed punishment under the reported new policy? If the pressure from the Rice situation had any impact on Gordon's situation, shouldn't there be something we could point to and say "see, Gordon got more leniency, b/c Goodell was trying to get some good press because of the Rice fiasco!"
Why can't we see anything like that?
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Oh, dailysnark.com! I guess we can expect to hear tomorrow that Gordon is going to have his suspension wiped from the books because of dailysnark.com's petition.
VaTerp
Footballguy
About 3200 people have signed this petition that has been up for at least a month. By comparison that is less than 1/3 of the average daily attendance at Redskins training camp practice this summer. Training camp. Think about that for a second.
rockaction
Footballguy
I hated it for years, but now that I know what it refers to (and it seems to be a great linguistic/verbal reaction to the pervasiveness of PR and imagery, especially) I don't think it's so bad? Certain conditions -- and in this case, media consumption from TV, secret sources, trademarks, PR, branding, and other things -- call for the usurpation of existing words or neologisms, IMO.
/upspeak
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VaTerp
Footballguy
I'm genuinely, and maybe easily, confused.
Was this a joke or are we not supposed to say optics here anymore?
rockaction
Footballguy
Yep. I think that is what he is getting at. It's a newer term, that to some people, identifies a lot of things wrong with political, business or corporate-esque language.
It's hard to explain. And my point is very much like this article's (swear to God I didn't look it up beforehand. I'd read Boorstin's "The Image," which has been weighing heavily on mind the past week, wondering how exactly his quaint dissatisfaction with interviews and staged press events would hold up to today's overwhelming media. Anyway, enough of my rambling. Here's the history.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/magazine/07FOB-onlanguage-t.html?_r=0
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
It's been retired.
VaTerp
Footballguy
I'm still confused. I work in public policy and live in the DC area so I use optics on a regular basis. There are good optics and bad optics so the word, in and of itself, is not negative in the context that it's used here inside the beltway.
rockaction
Footballguy
Ding!
Or maybe it was an FFA "words I hate" thing or something that was an in-joke around here.
I remember the word infiltrating the language, once hated it, and now realize its potential and usefulness. I have no problem with it. But it still makes me cringe because of the relentless imagery over content that caused its birth.
So, Goodell might be forced to resign, and the potential policy isn't final/official, and a 10 game suspension is only a report, right now.HOW DO ANY OF THESE THINGS SHOW THAT THE RICE SITUATION HAD ANY INFLUENCE ON THE GORDON SITUATION? Because that is the whole point here. That's the Gordon-ite argument you decided to comment on, so answer that question, and stop pointing out things that aren't relevant.
If a new drug policy gets tabled, Gordon is still suspended 1year, & Rice situation had no impact.
If a new policy is agreed to, reports are Gordon's suspension will be 10 games, per the new policy, & Rice's situation had no impact.
If Goodell resigns,Gordon is still suspended 1 year, & Rice's situation had no impact.
So, again, how did. Rice's situation impact Gordon's situation? Because all you've done is show it has impacted Goodell, bit that is not the topic of this thread, Josh Gordon is.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Debating the impact of Rice on Gordon's suspension? What is this, July?
I made the mistake of using that as an example of how many of the pro-Gordon crowd in this thread ignored logic, facts, and reality when trying to come with any hope that Gordon would play this year.My fault for expecting that now that this has been 100% proven false that it wouldn't be debated.
It's not bad because it's on the list. It's on the list because it's bad.
Saying that something has bad optics, instead of saying that it looks bad, is like telling someone to interface with his partner (instead of talking to her), or to utilize normal English (instead of using it).
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I wonder if Gordon is less tradeable now that there have been a rash of injuries in the past week? IR roster spots will get filled up. Fantasy owners will get scared and wonder if they'll sacrifice roster flexibility by adding question mark that probably can't play until week 12. Sad to think the amazing energy of this whole thread ends not with a bang but a whimper.
SengerCJ
Footballguy
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 1m
As for the drug policy, NFL/NFLPA announcement of agreement to terms could come down at any time. ...
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 1m
... Remember, that the policy won't be completely finished for a week or two, as lawyers work through final language, and write the deal.
As for the drug policy, NFL/NFLPA announcement of agreement to terms could come down at any time. ...
Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 1m
... Remember, that the policy won't be completely finished for a week or two, as lawyers work through final language, and write the deal.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
Rick James
Footballguy
Week 12 is a disaster. I would not have bid 958 in the FFPC league if I thought he wouldn't be available until week 12. Oh well...
SengerCJ
Footballguy
Kind of stopped tracking this once the 10 game suspension came out, have a missed something?:
"Good morning, let's get in shape.. #6games #probowl ?"
6 games?
"Back to Cleveland.. How cold is it?"
Does this mean he, for some reason, is allowed back with the team? Why else would someone want to go to Cleveland.
Taken from Gordon's twitter.
"Good morning, let's get in shape.. #6games #probowl ?"
6 games?
"Back to Cleveland.. How cold is it?"
Does this mean he, for some reason, is allowed back with the team? Why else would someone want to go to Cleveland.
Taken from Gordon's twitter.
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When searching for a trading partner I try to find the motivations of other owners. I can't trade him to a team who needs help at WR because they need the help now. Can't trade with someone who's team is beat up for the same reason. Probably need to look for a team that has good depth at WR who feels like they can afford the risk in return for a lottery ticket starting in week 12.
