renesauz
IBL Representative
After watching Brees and others in recent years- I don't buy this argument entirely. I think it's the attitude/diva nature that bothers me more.
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Official Johnny Manziel Thread (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
JShare87
Footballguy
Will go top 3, you're dreaming pal.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Yeah...I don't particularly like him and would still take a chance late 1st/early 2nd.
NJ
Footballguy
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Manziel has some of that same passionate fire that Rivers has, but that's about it.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
Same, but don't see the Jaguars and Vikings both passing on him. Top 5, even though I'm not sure he's worth it.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Johnny Football is going to get decapitated if he brings the same style to the NFL. Kid is not very bright. I still dont think his arm is very strong.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Johnny Manziel is going to go in the top-ten and quite possibly top-five.
snogger
Footballguy
I have no idea why people keep saying this
Based on what is listed out there, there are already 2 very good QB's starting for teams who are shorter and smaller then him.
Manziel - Height: 6 ft 1 in Weight: 210 lb
Brees - Height: 6 ft 0 in Weight: 209 lb
Wilson -Height: 5 ft 11 in Weight: 206 lb
I have no idea if he will be as good as they have been, but to proclaim he has no chance at being an elite QB because he is short is a :whoosh: to me.
msommer
Footballguy
In the top 10 there are a bunch of teams that could use a franchise qb
HOU
TBB?
OAK?
JAX
CLE
MIN
TEN?
You might add STL to that list at 11 with a ?
Some of those teams might go with a vet, like Cutler, and some might stay with what they have.
Who are the best prospects? Bridgewater, Carr, then who?
This reminds me of the year Gabbert, Ponder and Locker went top ten because of need.
Odds are that a few teams might be tempted to reach for a QB
HOU
TBB?
OAK?
JAX
CLE
MIN
TEN?
You might add STL to that list at 11 with a ?
Some of those teams might go with a vet, like Cutler, and some might stay with what they have.
Who are the best prospects? Bridgewater, Carr, then who?
This reminds me of the year Gabbert, Ponder and Locker went top ten because of need.
Odds are that a few teams might be tempted to reach for a QB
snogger
Footballguy
I know Carr is ranked higher then others( Manziel, Bortles) and my only opportunity to watch him was vs. USC ..
But I REALLY didn't like what I saw from him when he was facing arguably the best defense he saw all year.
He had "happy feet" and his decision making under pressure left a lot to be desired..
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Milkman
Footballguy
You're right but there is no denying that it hurts his chances of being a successful starting QB in the NFL. One of his greatest attributes (running) is not going to translate to the NFL. Teams should pass on picking him in the 1st round.I have no idea why people keep saying this
Based on what is listed out there, there are already 2 very good QB's starting for teams who are shorter and smaller then him.
Manziel - Height: 6 ft 1 in Weight: 210 lb
Brees - Height: 6 ft 0 in Weight: 209 lb
Wilson -Height: 5 ft 11 in Weight: 206 lb
I have no idea if he will be as good as they have been, but to proclaim he has no chance at being an elite QB because he is short is a :whoosh: to me.
snogger
Footballguy
You're right but there is no denying that it hurts his chances of being a successful starting QB in the NFL. One of his greatest attributes (running) is not going to translate to the NFL. Teams should pass on picking him in the 1st round.I have no idea why people keep saying this
Based on what is listed out there, there are already 2 very good QB's starting for teams who are shorter and smaller then him.
Manziel - Height: 6 ft 1 in Weight: 210 lb
Brees - Height: 6 ft 0 in Weight: 209 lb
Wilson -Height: 5 ft 11 in Weight: 206 lb
I have no idea if he will be as good as they have been, but to proclaim he has no chance at being an elite QB because he is short is a :whoosh: to me.
sure he runs a lot, but I'd argue his passing skills are not to shabby either.. He had some great passes and plays last night.ended the night 30/38 382 yards, 4TD's and ZERO int's.
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Personally I think the guy will be a bust if he ends up on a perrenial bottom feeder like the Jags or Browns as he seems like a spoiled, rich kid who can't deal with adversity very well. One thing I know for certain is some team will reach for him high up in the first. The same can be said for most of the other qb's coming out who will be over-drafted strictly from a talent standpoint. If you don't have a legit QB in this league you are toast and teams know it so they are willing to draft these guys way ahead of more talented players at other positions.
I'm sure some of these guys will pan out, which ones who knows? I think sometimes it has as much to do with coaching and situation as talent. I think there have been many qb's drafted who had no shot to succeed given the environment they ended up in. Others were more fortunate and with the few truly great ones it didn't matter as they rose above whatever limitations were around them.
I'm sure some of these guys will pan out, which ones who knows? I think sometimes it has as much to do with coaching and situation as talent. I think there have been many qb's drafted who had no shot to succeed given the environment they ended up in. Others were more fortunate and with the few truly great ones it didn't matter as they rose above whatever limitations were around them.
Milkman
Footballguy
His running opens up the passing opportunities. Those windows are going to be significantly smaller in the NFL. To be fair though he has a nice quick release and the velocity on his passes look above average. So he's got a decent arm. Not sure how accurate he is from the pocket. Some people see him scrambling around in the pocket like Big Ben does. If his pocket awareness and scrambling ability inside the pocket translates to the NFL then I could see that being valuable.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Their was no perrenial bottom feeder like New Orleans till they got Drew Brees.
Quarterback turns perrenial bottom feeders into Super Bowl winners if they have a solid core.
Jags lack that solid core.
Cleveland just had five players voted into the Pro Bowl so they have a solid core to turn things around quickly if they get the QB.
You could be right but even though they came from the same high school and have the same stature Manziel isn't Brees IMO especially mentally. Brees also was drafted and was given a chance to sit on the bench his first year which doesn't happen nowadays. Brees also endured a lot of failure/frustration early on in his career in SD and overcame it. If Manziel is faced with the same path I would be shocked to see him come out of it.
As far as situtation Cleveland has some talent, especially Cameron/ Gordon but who is going to be the coach? Mc Daniels or some unproven coordinator from Seattle? Those are big ?? IMO and some teams like Cleveland just seem to never catch a break. I feel sorry for their fans and would really like to see them turn it around as they deserve better. I just question whether or nor Manziel has the mental fortitiude to deal with a lot of adversity early on if things don't go well.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Are you guys really comparing Manziels arm and composure to Drew Brees? Holy crap
NJ
Footballguy
Everyone talks about how his running won't translate into the NFL, but Manziel consistently makes throws that are flat out jaw dropping. Or they say he's not mentally ready for the NFL but he had every opportunity to implode last night down 38-17 with Duke getting the ball to start the 2nd half. He never quit on that team despite the defense not stopping Duke once in the 1st half. He was on the sideline constantly riding people to never give up and took the team on his back in the 2nd half and made plays that I don't know if anyone else could've made. I'm not sure what else the guy could do, if you truly watched him play this year and still think he has no shot to succeed in the NFL just because he's not 6'4" then its pretty pointless to debate anymore because there is nothing he's ever going to do in college that will change people's minds about him. He's 6'1" and acted like a knucklehead in the offseason so people made up their mind about him and ignored everything he did to improve his game this year. Certainly his size will work against him at the next level, but I haven't seen anything that would make me think he doesn't have the skills to be able to overcome it like some others have. No idea if he'll succeed in the NFL, but I'm not going to label him a bust just because he's not the prototypical size, he's got one of the quickest releases I've seen in a while and his instincts for the game are immeasurable. I enjoy watching him play so I hope he keeps his head on straight and has some success in the NFL.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
Would anyone really want Blackmon and Manziel or Gordon and Manziel on the same team? Better hire a disciplinarian.
Leroy's Aces
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
Sorry but you didn't see what I saw last night. On the field he is never going to have the kind of room to run like he had in that game as NFL defensive players are night and day speed-wise as compared to Duke players. He's not RG3 from 2012 as far as running ability. He has some elusiveness and can improvise and make plays but I don't see him trying to hurdle over a defender, land on his feet, scramble and then make a throw in the NFL.
I'm not declaring him a bust but I also feel his chances of being one are much greater than other players who don't have his maturity issues. If you don't see any red flags with his on and off the field behavior and lack of maturity then I guess I won't waste my time discussing it any further. To me there are huge concerns with his overall attitude and lack of maturity.
NJ
Footballguy
That's what ESPN had him listed at last night and what several websites have him listed at, he does look smaller than that to me so I have no idea what his actual height is as they usually inflate it, but I really have no desire to debate over whether he's 6'0" or 6'1" or whatever, he looks at least as tall as Brees/Wilson/Vick etc. its not like he's 5'8".
matuski
Footballguy
NJ
Footballguy
Absolutely there are off the field maturity concerns/red flags. On the field, I would disagree, you can't ask for more than what he did to carry that team on his back numerous times this season. It's not like he's Cam Newton pouting on the sidelines because his teammates let him down.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Turnover machine, leaving too early.
mr roboto
Footballguy
This is where I'm at with him. I will say that the talent is clearly there. For those complaining about an average arm strength, Brees, Brady, Manning don't exactly have cannons. They have timing, scheme, rhythm. Flacco and Kaep have cannons, Locker too. Granted 2 of those guys were in the SB last year, but they had very strong teams and organizations around them.
Average arm strength is all a QB needs if he can develop reading defenses, progressions, timing and accuracy.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Never said jot about Manziel being Brees.
Point is the Saints were a bottom feeder till they got the QB. They had a solid core in place and turned things round quickly.
Cleveland has a solid core in place, two first round draft picks plus extra third and fourth round picks and lots of free agent money to spend.
If they get a QB, the Browns will turn it around quickly.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/01/browns-job-may-be-the-best-of-the-bunch/
Browns job may be the best of the bunch
Posted by Mike Florio on January 1, 2014, 9:10 AM EST
With six NFL head-coaching jobs open, one stands above the rest as the bunch.
And, no, it’s not the Lions.
In Cleveland, the Browns have five Pro Bowlers: left tackle Joe Thomas, center Alex Mack, wide receiver Josh Gordon, tight end Jordan Cameron and cornerback Joe Haden. They have a young roster — currently the second-youngest in the league.
They’ll likely get even younger in 2014, with 10 draft picks. Three of those come in the first 35 selections.
But they also have the ability to get older if they want, with nearly $40 million in cap space on the books for 2014.
The biggest attraction comes from the ability of the next coach to hand pick his next quarterback, subject to whatever the teams holding the first three picks in the draft choose to do (and the wishes of the front office). Given the existing talent, the draft picks, the cap space, and the void at quarterback, the Browns in 2014 may be an even better version of the Chiefs in 2013, who with the addition of Andy Reid and Alex Smith went from 2-14 to 11-5.
There’s one potential caveat, as there always is when things seem to be too good to be true. Tony Grossi of ESPN Cleveland believes that former coach Rob Chudzinski failed in part because he gave short shrift to quarterback Brian Hoyer, a favorite of G.M. Mike Lombardi who showed a high degree of ability when the third-stringer finally got a chance to play. If the powers-that-be in Cleveland want to roll with Hoyer, the new coach may have his hands tied.
Then again, the new coach may also have the ability to ignore Hoyer or any other players on whom the front office is high, because there’s no way the Browns could pull off a second straight one-and-done head coach. Though the next coach may not make it to a third year, there’s no way he’s getting fired after one.
While these circumstances position the Browns to get anyone they want, the prevailing belief in league circles is that they definitely want Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels — and that they wouldn’t have fired Chudzinski unless they knew they could get McDaniels.
So why all the other names and interviews, if McDaniels is the guy? Apart from ensuring compliance with the Rooney Rule, the Browns need to create the impression that they turned rocks and kicked tires before choosing a previously failed Belichick disciple who may fail a second time — just as Romeo Crennel and Eric Mangini have done.
Besides, the Browns need to have a good fallback plan in place (Plan B could be Jim Schwartz). Last year, Chudzinski became the candidate for whom the Browns settled. While the organization deserves credit for admitting quickly that they hired the wrong guy, the decision to fire him represents a clear admission that, last time around, they definitely hired the wrong guy.
If they don’t get it right this time, owner Jimmy Haslam could be firing more people than the coach.
Yenrub
Footballguy
I would be worried about his off the field stuff so close to home
It might be better for Johnny off the field wise to get away from home
matuski
Footballguy
People keep saying this.. what off the field stuff?I would be worried about his off the field stuff so close to home
It might be better for Johnny off the field wise to get away from home
This horrible kid signed autographs and had the audacity to sit court-side at a basketball game, and he Tweets stupid kid stuff!!!
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lod01
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
You serious clark?People keep saying this.. what off the field stuff?I would be worried about his off the field stuff so close to home
It might be better for Johnny off the field wise to get away from home
This horrible kid signed autographs and had the audacity to sit court-side at a basketball game, and he Tweets stupid kid stuff!!!
JShare87
Footballguy
I really don't understand how people say his arm is weak. He made plenty of NFL throws last night and all season long. The 15 yard deep out to the far sideline was made 2 or 3 times with plenty of velocity. He throws a great spiral and is a great deep ball thrower. Please go on YouTube and you can watch every game with only his plays, not just his scrambling highlights. I've seen every single play since the Bama game last year. Arm strength is not a concern at all. His release is Vick like, extremely quick. If you put him in a spread offense in the NFL he will have great success. He is so good in space and his instincts are ridiculous. In another thread a year ago I argued he would be a top 3 pick, I got laughed at. There is a reason every single scout is changing their minds about him because the tape doesn't lie. He has grown tremendously as a passer this season. Scouts don't give you a top 10 grade if there are concerns of arm strength. I can't predict the future but I do know I've seen enough to warrant a top 3 pick. I believe Bridgewater should be the only player taken ahead of him, if anyone. I understand a lot of people want this kid to fail but it's pretty silly to say he can't throw. The only concerns I see are his size and lowering his shoulder on runs. It will be interesting come May. I feel the Rams will trade the number 2 pick because JFF and Ted are great prospects and they will get a lot in return for that pick. Maybe not as much as they got for RG3 but we will have to wait for the combine and see.
Yep, the play last night was very similar to plays Russell makes frequently. They both have a passion to win, might come from being small guys I dunno.
matuski
Footballguy
Yes, please inform me about the serious off field issues that have so far impacted his play... not one bit.You serious clark?People keep saying this.. what off the field stuff?I would be worried about his off the field stuff so close to home
It might be better for Johnny off the field wise to get away from home
This horrible kid signed autographs and had the audacity to sit court-side at a basketball game, and he Tweets stupid kid stuff!!!
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Faust
MVP
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matuski
Footballguy
Yes, please inform me about the serious off field issues that have so far impacted his play... not one bit.You serious clark?People keep saying this.. what off the field stuff?I would be worried about his off the field stuff so close to home
It might be better for Johnny off the field wise to get away from home
This horrible kid signed autographs and had the audacity to sit court-side at a basketball game, and he Tweets stupid kid stuff!!!
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Take that statement in context.He isn't saying he has an overpowering arm. He's saying he can deliver with SUFFICIENT velocity from multiple platforms which would be dictated by pressure from multiple spots.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
If we're not calling him Johnny Viking in May I'll be very disappointed.
jurb26
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
I know what he thinks he said. But he used 'indefensible' which is hyperbole, yet in context there's nothing to suggest the author was using hyperbole intentionally. No QB is indefensible against NFL Defenses. Some are very hard to defend. But no one is indefensible.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Okay, I can agree that "indefensible" is over the top.
