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Official Johnny Manziel Thread - participates in Fan Controlled Football: 'Feels like I'm super washed up'


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creative use of smileys by msommer, and historically accurate/faithful rendering nicely summing up the range of emotions and reactions at the time.*

* though my favorite was one year when ESPN ran their annual, obligatory historical Jets first round reactions (tough crowd, they would boo their Grandmother if she was a first rounder), and one was so funny I had to replay it three or more times, it was an inhuman, keening, wailing, shrieking, howling, bellow of pain. In another, non-draft related context, I would say I never want to hear that sound again for the rest of my life. But in a draft, it was hilarious. :)

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His argument is pretty ridiculous, but there's really no reason to bring up Ferguson or the I can't breathe protests in response. Pretty poor taste here guys.

First, lets get around the off-field ######tery, which if we are being fair, he put behind him after the taunting incident and getting benched. Since then, he's been a model citizen. Still, the media will play up his bad behavior because that's what sells airtime, and the ultimate storyline.

Young kid, poor mechanics as a freshman despite winning the heisman. Improved a lot the next season. Seems willing to learn, and able to learn. Has the on-field intangibles to make plays out of nothing, ala Russell Wilson. The height isn't a concern as much as it used to be nor is the cannon arm. We see good examples of guys like Wilson and Brees overcome those obstacles.

Good post. You covered almost everything.

I can look past some of the off-field stuff like taunting and the autograph(I don't personally), but when he missed the Manning camp meeting that was just careless.

Wilson and Brees are short. They are also built from what I can see. JF looks like Allen Iverson.

He is not Russell Wilson as a passer. Wilson passed the ball like a pro in college by dissecting defenses all over the field. I just went through some A&M games and JF looks more like a gimmick throwing bubble screens and quick slants all game. I'm not saying he doesn't have NFL talent. It just more like a backup in the right offense like 'the pistol." Watch him vs better teams like Bama, LSU, OK and Fla in 2012, or Mizzu and he's just ok. Less TD, more INTs ect... Not gaudy numbers. That's not great if you're planning to take a risk in the 1st round knowing there's a chance he puts all the money up his nose or in his liver. If he was a 4th I wouldn't gaf. I managed the risk as much as I could there.

I don't understand why he's a consensus 1st round talent. He has character issues, passing issues and size concerns. I can see a scenario where he gets his #### together. If I had to bet a nickel, he'll flame out like Tim Tebow. I'm sure Jac, Oak or some other typically bad franchise makes this pick.

Good point about Manning camp, that is alarming and disturbing, I heard about it but appreciate the reminder.

Also agree, Brees isn't a great comp physique-wise (though similar height), he is about 220 lbs and well put together. Brees is also a sensational athlete and can reportedly dunk a basketball, not sure Manziel is that explosive (though he is probably faster)?

Tebow had catastrophic mechanics, so his failure likely falls (in retrospect) into the inevitable, destined, fated, doomed category. Manziel, even accounting for his issues, in fairness is a far superior pure passer, though they do have running ability in common. Tebow was generally acknowledged as a reach, nobody I recall designated him a first round lock (it was at least a mild surprise when DEN took him, and a shock to many), and some scouts graded him as a third rounder or worse. Even before Manziel's impressive bowl game and apparent recent surge up the boards, respected Dallas-based draft observer Rich Gosselin (for years he had among the most accurate mocks - he admitted he did little scouting himself, but it was due to the breadth, depth and quality of his insider network) came away after talking with NFL personnel execs and decision makers convinced that Manziel would be a top 12 pick. So whatever we may think, it seems clear front offices don't view Tebow and Manziel the same.

I don't even view Tebow and Manziel the same, but it's a fair comp. You have two highly mobile players with decent passing numbers, but most of the quality production comes from playing in a "system" that is simple(like a Case Keenum at Houston). So maybe he is something like a really mobile Case Keenum or a Keenum/Tebow hybrid?? Two small guys in high paced offenses that get exposed as passers when the compitition rises. There's a role for them in the NFL, just not as franchise QBs.

The NFL draft is a big chess game. Some team will keep their picks quite like Min with Ponder. Other teams will talk up players so another team can take a player higher then the should. As much as we like to scoff at the idea, at least one team considered Tebow a 1st round talent. For Manziel not to slide some team will have to think the same of him.

Edited by ShaHBucks
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I just think the comp breaks down in two key areas (possibly related).

Tebow had widely viewed irreparably bad mechanics (thus rumblings he might need to switch positions BEFORE the draft). Nothing remotely like this has been suggested of Manziel to my knowledge.

Also, I was just addressing your being perplexed and puzzled that he is viewed as a first rounder (and you far from the only one). Not only is he increasingly commonly viewed as a legit first rounder, but more mocks are putting him in the top five. So while you may be right and he busts later for some reasons you have already outlined or possibly others, speaking for the present time, he is viewed as a better pure passer and overall prospect by scouts than Tebow. I get that you may not think he should be, just pointing out your take doesn't seem to be accounting for that or incorporating the information by lumping them together.

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Negatives : Size. Needs to run less. Occasionally his arm strength looks questionable. Likes to party, drinks more than Dean Martin.

Positives : Ridiculous sixth sense when it comes to feeling pressure and where it is coming from, and the best escapability I've seen since Fran Tarkenton and Michael Vick (the comparisons are legit and not hype, at least insofar as those traits/attributes). Doesn't have a Favre/Stafford-like howitzer, but isn't Chad Pennington, either. His arm is good enough for most throws (not sure about a closely defended deep out, but you could say that about a lot of QBs). Very quick release, at his most dangerous when on the run but keeping his eyes downfield and looking to pass, can throw accurately from a variety of angles.

Recently combo comped... 70% Doug Flutie + 25% Russell Wilson + 5% Charlie Sheen.

I might go 50% Flutie + 35% Wilson + 15% Sheen.

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I get the Favre comparisons and suppose I see some in the highlight videos, but he doesn't look anywhere near as strong as Favre. For a few games, young Mike McMahon looked like Favre when the porous Lions line let people get to him. The other games, McMahon looked like a poor decision maker that also ran to the worst possible spot and he got oh so nailed by big hits. There's keeping plays alive and then there's running around because you haven't changed since your days on the playground.

Sometimes Manziel runs and it looks like "woops not a good idea" and he runs a different direction-especially in the one highlight they show every chance they get. These type plays make me wonder if he can even pull that off in the NFL. I'm thinking "woops" is going to mean he just got destroyed by a linebacker licking his chops.

I love a QB with spunk and moxie, oh so easy to root for and so enjoyable to watch- at times these long highlights on youtube look like young Flutie not Favre.

Manziel has an awesome amount of faith in Evans(who I like more and more) and would probably be fantastic throwing to Calvin, but what if he has a normal NFL WR that doesn't always grab anything in an overwhelming fashion?

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I don't know if HOU is a viable destination due to what has been said of the importance to the HC of intangibles. But they have Andre Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins. Jacksonville has Justin Blackmon (and he could show Manziel around the Florida nighlife - WAIT!) and Cecil Shorts. CLE has big receivers Josh Gordon, Greg Little and TE Jordan Cameron. OAK doesn't fit as well, but does have Denarius Moore and Rod Streater? TB (may be OK with Glennon, but they do have a new HC?) has Vince Jackson and Mike Williams. MIN has Cordarrelle Patterson, Greg Jennings and Kyle Rudolph.

So a lot of possible destinations in the top 10 aren't exactly bereft of WRs and receiving talent.

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Bucky Brooks stopped by a local Cleveland sports talk show and gave his :2cents: on Johnny Manziel.

He likes him but not as much as Bridgewater.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2014/01/09/bucky-brooks-johnny-manziel-has-the-buzz-bridgewater-still-1/

Buzz, Bridgewater Still #1

With Baskin & Phelps - Weekdays - 10am-2pmJanuary 9, 2014 1:54 PM

Analyst, Film Room guru, and former player Bucky Brooks of NFL.com joined Baskin & Phelps Thursday to discuss the quarterbacks set to emerge from college to the NFL, who the best fits are for the teams looking for signal callers, why Bridgewater is better than Manziel for teams, what Johnny Football can bring to the table, rating Blake Bortles and draft strategy, and more!

Podcast:

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Herm Edwards video on Manziel. Said his arm is good enough. Reminds him in some ways of Favre, and he also mentioned Wilson in passing on the size issue. Noted he may need to be in the right scheme to highlight his skill set. Alluded to the off-field questions and concerns. Was asked who he would take first between Bridgewater, Bortles and Mayock, but he talked about other stuff and didn't answer the question. The video was embedded in a text article, where there were a few quotes by Tarkenton stating Manziel reminded him of himself and he was a savant on the football field. That does beg the question, could even Tarkenton be Tarkenton in today's NFL, he did what he did a long time ago, and the game has changed a lot since he was making NFL defenders looking silly back in the day?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10262570/johnny-manziel-declares-2014-nfl-draft

some quotes from ESPN by former coaches, players and other observers/commentators. I saw another video in which Kiper compares his game to Tarkenton and Flutie (where he called him a top 5-8 overall prospect).

http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releases/2014/01/espn-experts-discuss-johnny-manziels-decision-declare-2014-nfl-draft/

NFL Draft analyst Mel Kiper, Jr., on how Manziel’s skills translate to the NFL: “Very well in today’s NFL, and certainly Fran Tarkenton did it back in an era when it wasn’t a wide-open pass-happy league, and I think that’s who he compares to, Johnny Manziel. You look at the ability to throw the football from the pocket, that’s something he’ll continue to improve, which he did between last year and this year — make strides in this area. His creativity, his instincts, his guttiness, his competitiveness are all positives. They’re all ‘10+’. The concern’s going to be with his style – his running style and that frame, which isn’t very big. It’s six-foot. Staying healthy, being durable, playing smart, not trying to prove you’re the toughest guy on the field, by getting out of bounds, sliding. If he does that and protects his frame, his skillset translates to today’s NFL very effectively.

“It’s going to be an interesting first round, particularly the early portion because you have five of the top eight teams picking overall needing quarterbacks. Problem is, I have (Tedy) Bridgewater at eight, Blake Bortles, Central Florida (at) nine, Manziel at 12. They get an automatic bump because they’re quarterbacks … but be careful. These are not Andrew Luck, RGIII-type quarterbacks coming out. They’re up there, but they’re not one, two, three, four, and that’s where the teams that are picking need quarterbacks.”

Note: Kiper has Manziel rated as the No. 3 quarterback prospect on his current NFL Draft Big Board.

NFL analyst Trent Dilfer: “Watching his game tape, the only quarterback I can compare him to from an instinct standpoint is Brett Favre. Johnny Manziel has eyes in the back of his head. He flat-out sees stuff that other people don’t see, and that’s why he’s special.”

NFL analyst Ron Jaworski: “I do like his ball position. His drop is smooth. His release is smooth. It’s compact. All those little things are very, very important. The arm strength seems to be fine, but until I see him live it’s really hard to say ‘yeah, he spins it great.’”

College football analyst Kirk Herbstreit: “From an intangible standpoint, I think from an ability to make throws, he’s worked as hard as any quarterback I’ve ever seen.”

NFL analyst Herm Edwards: “This guy has a lot of talent. He has field presence. He has the ability to move in the pocket. This year he tried to play more in the pocket, but his attributes are really extending the play. So, you’re going to have to build an offense around his skillset. It’s more of a spread, open offense, a one-back set, which the National Football League is all about now, it seems like. I think this guy will have success if you put him in the right situation that highlights his skillset.”

NFL analyst Jerome Bettis, on how Manziel will be greeted by veteran players in a NFL locker room: “There’s going to be some concern when he steps into that locker room. The question that the players are going to ask themselves is: Is this a ‘me’ guy? Is he an ‘I’ quarterback? Is he going to come in and be part of a team concept? We saw some of the things that happened since he won the Heisman Trophy, and it’s not been all good from a team concept. The players will ask themselves ‘Is he a guy I want to follow?’”

NFL analyst Jeff Saturday: “This is our job. This is no longer just college where you’re kind of a man amongst yourself. It doesn’t really make a big difference. I feed my wife and my kids with this job. So, you not producing, or having some issue off the field that doesn’t allow you to play, you’re affecting all of us. And it’s not just our shot at a National Championship. This is our livelihood. There’s a level that when you step up to in the game in the NFL that’s more accountable to each player. I’m not saying he can’t handle it. I’m just saying there’s a different perspective. As a 37-year old sitting in there, I’m going to tell you, you better get yourself squared away.”

NFL analyst Mark Schlereth: “As he walks into that locker room, the one thing we’ve seen with young athletes now … I don’t give a rip what you did at Texas A&M. Just because you signed as a first round draft choice and because you have built up this cache in the outside world of college football, it entitles you to nothing when you walk into an NFL locker room. We will treat you like the rookie you are. You better not be coming in thinking you are a brand. You better come in thinking you are a pro because that’s what we want in a NFL locker room.”

Senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen, on what he’s hearing from NFL front offices about Manziel: “First of all, they believe he is a very exciting football player, but he has this recklessness about him – some say on and off the field – that he needs to corral. One evaluator said he saw him wear down as the season went on in the SEC – did not even look as explosive. But then he freshens up and looks like the old Johnny Football in the bowl game. So, these guys believe he is a first round draft pick. I’ve had more than one evaluator say he’s going to be a top-5 pick, some suspect the Jacksonville Jaguars at No. 3.”

NFL Insider Ed Werder: “I’ve talked to some people in the NFL who say that, you know, they L-U-V love Johnny Manziel. That was the first text I got back. … This person said this guy’s the best quarterback in the draft. I’ve never scouted a college player since Doug Flutie live who’s better than him. I talked to a GM on a NFC team. He said ‘to take advantage of his attributes you have to structure the offense around what he can do.’ That means getting him outside the pocket and that’s the only way to prevent his lack of ideal size from being a big factor.”

Below article has some overlap with the above two, but some good quotes from former Cowboys personnel exec legend and contemporary draft guru Gil Brandt, who states he would take him in the top five, and highlights how he was instrumental in turning the Texas A&M program around.

excerpt - "Former NFL quarterback and current ESPN analyst Trent Dilfer said he does not have any issues with Manziel’s character, having spent time with him at a football camp last year, nor is he concerned about his durability."

http://nypost.com/2014/01/08/analysts-manziel-is-probably-a-top-5-draft-pick/

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I don't know if HOU is a viable destination due to what has been said of the importance to the HC of intangibles. But they have Andre Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins. Jacksonville has Justin Blackmon (and he could show Manziel around the Florida nighlife - WAIT!) and Cecil Shorts. CLE has big receivers Josh Gordon, Greg Little and TE Jordan Cameron. OAK doesn't fit as well, but does have Denarius Moore and Rod Streater? TB (may be OK with Glennon, but they do have a new HC?) has Vince Jackson and Mike Williams. MIN has Cordarrelle Patterson, Greg Jennings and Kyle Rudolph.

So a lot of possible destinations in the top 10 aren't exactly bereft of WRs and receiving talent.

Dallas is probably the best spot for Manziel. Jerry Jones is a guy not scared of character blemishes and Romo does a lot of scrambling on broken plays just like Manziel.

Manziel doesn't fit what O'Brien likes at QB. Buffalo would have been a good fit, but too bad they overdrafted Manuel last year.

Edited by Xue
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I don't know if HOU is a viable destination due to what has been said of the importance to the HC of intangibles. But they have Andre Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins. Jacksonville has Justin Blackmon (and he could show Manziel around the Florida nighlife - WAIT!) and Cecil Shorts. CLE has big receivers Josh Gordon, Greg Little and TE Jordan Cameron. OAK doesn't fit as well, but does have Denarius Moore and Rod Streater? TB (may be OK with Glennon, but they do have a new HC?) has Vince Jackson and Mike Williams. MIN has Cordarrelle Patterson, Greg Jennings and Kyle Rudolph.

So a lot of possible destinations in the top 10 aren't exactly bereft of WRs and receiving talent.

Dallas is probably the best spot for Manziel. Jerry Jones is a guy not scared of character blemishes and Romo does a lot of scrambling on broken plays just like Manziel.

Manziel doesn't fit what O'Brien likes at QB. Buffalo would have been a good fit, but too bad they overdrafted Manuel last year.

They got their starting QB with a mid 1st pick and he performed as well as Luck his rookie year. This despite coming in as a raw player.

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What does Manziel have that Tebow didn't?

Not phrased as a positive attribute, but one difference is he doesn't have the worst throwing mechanics in NFL history?

That has to be one of the biggest differences. A lot of people were saying before the draft Tebow might have to switch positions.

* They also had different scrambling styles. Tebow was elusive, but he tended to be more inclined to run first, his game was based more on power than agility, like a fullback playing QB. Manziel is better equipped to avoid the rush with quickness, and even when scrambling keeping his eyes downfield to make a play getting the ball in the hands of a WR.

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I don't know if HOU is a viable destination due to what has been said of the importance to the HC of intangibles. But they have Andre Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins. Jacksonville has Justin Blackmon (and he could show Manziel around the Florida nighlife - WAIT!) and Cecil Shorts. CLE has big receivers Josh Gordon, Greg Little and TE Jordan Cameron. OAK doesn't fit as well, but does have Denarius Moore and Rod Streater? TB (may be OK with Glennon, but they do have a new HC?) has Vince Jackson and Mike Williams. MIN has Cordarrelle Patterson, Greg Jennings and Kyle Rudolph.

So a lot of possible destinations in the top 10 aren't exactly bereft of WRs and receiving talent.

Dallas is probably the best spot for Manziel. Jerry Jones is a guy not scared of character blemishes and Romo does a lot of scrambling on broken plays just like Manziel.

Manziel doesn't fit what O'Brien likes at QB. Buffalo would have been a good fit, but too bad they overdrafted Manuel last year.

They got their starting QB with a mid 1st pick and he performed as well as Luck his rookie year. This despite coming in as a raw player.

I have been impressed with Manuel. He didn't look as good later as he did early on but I was still impressed.

Their backups looked ok, like backups, but that's a group right there. To be set at QB is great for them. I doubt anyone ever really cares if they took Manuel early or late. They took a huge step in building their team.

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I wish I could place a wager on Manziel getting play for the #1 pick. First week of April, that'd be my guess.

The best part of the draft, to me, is the late risers throwing everyone's projections out of whack. Right now, the assumption is that Manziel is probably a 1st rounder. That's not gonna hold. Barring another character bump in the road, I think he's a top 5 lock. And I think by April, that's just gonna be 'common knowledge'.

Um, no need to wait til April for that, he's widely considered a top 5 lock right now. Youre not going out on a limb here.

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Mike Vick? Brett Favre? Where do people come up with these ridiculous comparisons. He doesn't have anywhere near the arm strength or running ability of Vick. Favre had a much better arm than Manziel could possibly hope to have. Even the Russell Wilson comparison is a joke. Wilson had tremendous success as a pocket passer on two separate programs and even considering his lack of height. The only comparison which made even a modicum of sense is the Doug Flutie comparison.

I heard on the radio this week Manziel's completion % from the pocket this year was 73%, highest in NCAA football. That sounds pretty good to me.

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I don't know if HOU is a viable destination due to what has been said of the importance to the HC of intangibles. But they have Andre Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins. Jacksonville has Justin Blackmon (and he could show Manziel around the Florida nighlife - WAIT!) and Cecil Shorts. CLE has big receivers Josh Gordon, Greg Little and TE Jordan Cameron. OAK doesn't fit as well, but does have Denarius Moore and Rod Streater? TB (may be OK with Glennon, but they do have a new HC?) has Vince Jackson and Mike Williams. MIN has Cordarrelle Patterson, Greg Jennings and Kyle Rudolph.

So a lot of possible destinations in the top 10 aren't exactly bereft of WRs and receiving talent.

Dallas is probably the best spot for Manziel. Jerry Jones is a guy not scared of character blemishes and Romo does a lot of scrambling on broken plays just like Manziel.

Manziel doesn't fit what O'Brien likes at QB. Buffalo would have been a good fit, but too bad they overdrafted Manuel last year.

While Id agree with this, he has shown to be quite adept at developing QBs and leaning on their strengths. I still cant believe he turned Matt McGloin into a viable NFL QB/backup QB.

I think Manziel carries more risk than Bridgewater, but also likely a higher ceiling. If O'Brien thinks he can tap into that ceiling, Manziel might be their pick of the QBs.

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I don't know if HOU is a viable destination due to what has been said of the importance to the HC of intangibles. But they have Andre Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins. Jacksonville has Justin Blackmon (and he could show Manziel around the Florida nighlife - WAIT!) and Cecil Shorts. CLE has big receivers Josh Gordon, Greg Little and TE Jordan Cameron. OAK doesn't fit as well, but does have Denarius Moore and Rod Streater? TB (may be OK with Glennon, but they do have a new HC?) has Vince Jackson and Mike Williams. MIN has Cordarrelle Patterson, Greg Jennings and Kyle Rudolph.

So a lot of possible destinations in the top 10 aren't exactly bereft of WRs and receiving talent.

Dallas is probably the best spot for Manziel. Jerry Jones is a guy not scared of character blemishes and Romo does a lot of scrambling on broken plays just like Manziel.

Manziel doesn't fit what O'Brien likes at QB. Buffalo would have been a good fit, but too bad they overdrafted Manuel last year.

While Id agree with this, he has shown to be quite adept at developing QBs and leaning on their strengths. I still cant believe he turned Matt McGloin into a viable NFL QB/backup QB.

He did?

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I don't know if HOU is a viable destination due to what has been said of the importance to the HC of intangibles. But they have Andre Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins. Jacksonville has Justin Blackmon (and he could show Manziel around the Florida nighlife - WAIT!) and Cecil Shorts. CLE has big receivers Josh Gordon, Greg Little and TE Jordan Cameron. OAK doesn't fit as well, but does have Denarius Moore and Rod Streater? TB (may be OK with Glennon, but they do have a new HC?) has Vince Jackson and Mike Williams. MIN has Cordarrelle Patterson, Greg Jennings and Kyle Rudolph.

So a lot of possible destinations in the top 10 aren't exactly bereft of WRs and receiving talent.

Dallas is probably the best spot for Manziel. Jerry Jones is a guy not scared of character blemishes and Romo does a lot of scrambling on broken plays just like Manziel.

Manziel doesn't fit what O'Brien likes at QB. Buffalo would have been a good fit, but too bad they overdrafted Manuel last year.

While Id agree with this, he has shown to be quite adept at developing QBs and leaning on their strengths. I still cant believe he turned Matt McGloin into a viable NFL QB/backup QB.

He did?

McGloin started some games this year, no? He was serviceable with a below average supporting cast, no?

As a PSU alum, I thought McGloin was awful there before his SR season and I had no idea why he was even starting considering their other options. The fact the O'Brien made him look like a different QB in less than a year, and that he is now an average backup QB in the NFL still blows my mind. Im not saying he's all that good in the NFL, but Im guessing you didnt watch him at PSU to understand the wizardry O'Brien did with that ginger.

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I don't know if HOU is a viable destination due to what has been said of the importance to the HC of intangibles. But they have Andre Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins. Jacksonville has Justin Blackmon (and he could show Manziel around the Florida nighlife - WAIT!) and Cecil Shorts. CLE has big receivers Josh Gordon, Greg Little and TE Jordan Cameron. OAK doesn't fit as well, but does have Denarius Moore and Rod Streater? TB (may be OK with Glennon, but they do have a new HC?) has Vince Jackson and Mike Williams. MIN has Cordarrelle Patterson, Greg Jennings and Kyle Rudolph.

So a lot of possible destinations in the top 10 aren't exactly bereft of WRs and receiving talent.

Dallas is probably the best spot for Manziel. Jerry Jones is a guy not scared of character blemishes and Romo does a lot of scrambling on broken plays just like Manziel.

Manziel doesn't fit what O'Brien likes at QB. Buffalo would have been a good fit, but too bad they overdrafted Manuel last year.

While Id agree with this, he has shown to be quite adept at developing QBs and leaning on their strengths. I still cant believe he turned Matt McGloin into a viable NFL QB/backup QB.

He did?

McGloin started some games this year, no? He was serviceable with a below average supporting cast, no?

As a PSU alum, I thought McGloin was awful there before his SR season and I had no idea why he was even starting considering their other options. The fact the O'Brien made him look like a different QB in less than a year, and that he is now an average backup QB in the NFL still blows my mind. Im not saying he's all that good in the NFL, but Im guessing you didnt watch him at PSU to understand the wizardry O'Brien did with that ginger.

:thumbup:

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I don't know if HOU is a viable destination due to what has been said of the importance to the HC of intangibles. But they have Andre Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins. Jacksonville has Justin Blackmon (and he could show Manziel around the Florida nighlife - WAIT!) and Cecil Shorts. CLE has big receivers Josh Gordon, Greg Little and TE Jordan Cameron. OAK doesn't fit as well, but does have Denarius Moore and Rod Streater? TB (may be OK with Glennon, but they do have a new HC?) has Vince Jackson and Mike Williams. MIN has Cordarrelle Patterson, Greg Jennings and Kyle Rudolph.

So a lot of possible destinations in the top 10 aren't exactly bereft of WRs and receiving talent.

Dallas is probably the best spot for Manziel. Jerry Jones is a guy not scared of character blemishes and Romo does a lot of scrambling on broken plays just like Manziel.

Manziel doesn't fit what O'Brien likes at QB. Buffalo would have been a good fit, but too bad they overdrafted Manuel last year.

They got their starting QB with a mid 1st pick and he performed as well as Luck his rookie year. This despite coming in as a raw player.

I have been impressed with Manuel. He didn't look as good later as he did early on but I was still impressed.

Their backups looked ok, like backups, but that's a group right there. To be set at QB is great for them. I doubt anyone ever really cares if they took Manuel early or late. They took a huge step in building their team.

Look at what Jameis Winston did this year as a Redshirt Freshman compared to what Manuel did as a Redshirt Senior and you'll see how bad the pick was. He's a just another version of Josh Freeman, maybe worse.

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I don't know if HOU is a viable destination due to what has been said of the importance to the HC of intangibles. But they have Andre Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins. Jacksonville has Justin Blackmon (and he could show Manziel around the Florida nighlife - WAIT!) and Cecil Shorts. CLE has big receivers Josh Gordon, Greg Little and TE Jordan Cameron. OAK doesn't fit as well, but does have Denarius Moore and Rod Streater? TB (may be OK with Glennon, but they do have a new HC?) has Vince Jackson and Mike Williams. MIN has Cordarrelle Patterson, Greg Jennings and Kyle Rudolph.

So a lot of possible destinations in the top 10 aren't exactly bereft of WRs and receiving talent.

Dallas is probably the best spot for Manziel. Jerry Jones is a guy not scared of character blemishes and Romo does a lot of scrambling on broken plays just like Manziel.

Manziel doesn't fit what O'Brien likes at QB. Buffalo would have been a good fit, but too bad they overdrafted Manuel last year.

While Id agree with this, he has shown to be quite adept at developing QBs and leaning on their strengths. I still cant believe he turned Matt McGloin into a viable NFL QB/backup QB.

He did?

McGloin started some games this year, no? He was serviceable with a below average supporting cast, no?

As a PSU alum, I thought McGloin was awful there before his SR season and I had no idea why he was even starting considering their other options. The fact the O'Brien made him look like a different QB in less than a year, and that he is now an average backup QB in the NFL still blows my mind. Im not saying he's all that good in the NFL, but Im guessing you didnt watch him at PSU to understand the wizardry O'Brien did with that ginger.

:thumbup:

McGloin was already on the team before O'Brien got there. Since he has his choice of QB, many are predicting that Texans will trade down and take Bortles.

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Trade down to where, though? Bortles could be gone by 1.2, if another team trades up. If he likes Bridgewater or Bortles best, it makes more sense to not trade down.

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Rotoworld:

NFL.com's Bucky Brooks ranked Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel as "1A and 1B" in a radio interview on Thursday.

"I would lump Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel as 1A and 1B, depending on what offense you have. Then after that, you have a clump of names that kind of go together," Brooks said. "You have Blake Bortles, you have Derek Carr, you have Zach Mettenberger, you could even throw in AJ McCarron in that clump, and it just depends on what you're looking for. Blake Bortles has a lot of upside, Blake Bortles could be the franchise guy that you're looking for. I just don't believe he's a finished product at this time. I think Derek Carr likewise has a lot of talent, a lot of ability, has been very productive in that system. The biggest thing with Derek Carr that you're looking at is pocket poise. ... Can he handle performing well in a chaotic pocket?" Manziel will be a top-10 selection in May. We believe he has a skill set similar to Tony Romo's, especially in the improvisational department.
Source: NFL.com
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Rotoworld:

CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports the Browns are very high on Texas A&M redshirt sophomore QB Johnny Manziel.

"The Browns are also very high on quarterback Johnny Manziel, sources said, who would be a perfect fit in a (Gus) Malzahn offense," La Canfora writes. This is the second report that linked Manziel to the Browns, the first coming from the MMQB's Peter King. Teams have not laid out there draft board at this time, and the Browns don't even have a head coach at this time, but the pick is not unlikely.
Source: CBS Sports
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Why would CLE advertise who they want? This is the time of year for disinformation, maybe they want Bortles. Or maybe they really want Manziel, and getting others to think they don't want him by launching a fake disinformation campaign is the way to go... disdisinformation? Double crosses and triple crosses. The fun and games are starting.

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Why would CLE advertise who they want? This is the time of year for disinformation, maybe they want Bortles. Or maybe they really want Manziel, and getting others to think they don't want him by launching a fake disinformation campaign is the way to go... disdisinformation? Double crosses and triple crosses. The fun and games are starting.

Because they're the Browns?

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Rotoworld:

NFL.com's Gil Brandt tweeted on Monday that he was thinking about ranking Texas A&M redshirt sophomore QB Johnny Manziel as the No. 1 prospect in the draft.

Brandt's rankings will be published on Wednesday. Manziel wasn't discussed as being Teddy Bridgewater's equal during the season, but his draft stock has been gaining serious steam recently. As we stand now, it doesn't appear as though there's any chance Manziel will drop past the Browns at No. 4. Houston, of course, could keep Johnny Football in the state of Texas if it invests the top pick in the former Heisman winner. Jacksonville, picking third, is also expected to draft a QB.
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Why would CLE advertise who they want? This is the time of year for disinformation, maybe they want Bortles. Or maybe they really want Manziel, and getting others to think they don't want him by launching a fake disinformation campaign is the way to go... disdisinformation? Double crosses and triple crosses. The fun and games are starting.

Because they're the Browns?

lololololololol
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FYI - For those making the Tebow comparisons, statistically, Manziel put up the same college totals Tebow did in 2 years vs. Tebow's 4. Manziel threw it a lot.

Average wise, they are very close in passing averages. YPA, Comp %, TD/INT ratio. Tebow had more rushing TDs, but Manziel had almost as many yards rushing total and was far more electric on a rushing YPC.

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It seems kind of strange to me that Cleveland would want Manziel when Lombardi has always been an admirer of the Patriot style of football. I recall his over exuberance as an NFL network reporter when the Pats drafted Ryan Mallet. Mallet and Manziel are polar opposites. Just like the Richardson trade, I don't think the Browns are as stupid as people expect them to be. The Browns wanting Manziel looks like an obvious smoke screen and media is eating it up.

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It seems kind of strange to me that Cleveland would want Manziel when Lombardi has always been an admirer of the Patriot style of football. I recall his over exuberance as an NFL network reporter when the Pats drafted Ryan Mallet. Mallet and Manziel are polar opposites. Just like the Richardson trade, I don't think the Browns are as stupid as people expect them to be. The Browns wanting Manziel looks like an obvious smoke screen and media is eating it up.

Especially because teams will tell you that their evaluations aren't even close to some right now.

Draft time, people have the worst memories.

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It seems kind of strange to me that Cleveland would want Manziel when Lombardi has always been an admirer of the Patriot style of football. I recall his over exuberance as an NFL network reporter when the Pats drafted Ryan Mallet. Mallet and Manziel are polar opposites. Just like the Richardson trade, I don't think the Browns are as stupid as people expect them to be. The Browns wanting Manziel looks like an obvious smoke screen and media is eating it up.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the reports of Cleveland bein enamoured with Johnny Manziel. I did a lil digging and it seems those rumors have not come from the Browns but from Union Station. Obvoiusly the Browns would be checking all of the QBs who would have been available in the draft so I am positive that they sent scouts and maybe even Lombardi showed up for a game or two and the people down there would have seen them and felt that the Cleveland reps liked Manziel.

I am sure that is true bu the problem is that the people down in Union Station weren't with the Cleveland contingent when they checked out other players, not only QBs but all other players so the problem is they had no context. The Browns may have shown the exact same or even more interest in other players so none of this information is coming from Cleveland from everything I've seen. Its all from Union Station so I'm sure it true information but take it with a grain of salt.

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It seems kind of strange to me that Cleveland would want Manziel when Lombardi has always been an admirer of the Patriot style of football. I recall his over exuberance as an NFL network reporter when the Pats drafted Ryan Mallet. Mallet and Manziel are polar opposites. Just like the Richardson trade, I don't think the Browns are as stupid as people expect them to be. The Browns wanting Manziel looks like an obvious smoke screen and media is eating it up.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the reports of Cleveland bein enamoured with Johnny Manziel. I did a lil digging and it seems those rumors have not come from the Browns but from Union Station. Obvoiusly the Browns would be checking all of the QBs who would have been available in the draft so I am positive that they sent scouts and maybe even Lombardi showed up for a game or two and the people down there would have seen them and felt that the Cleveland reps liked Manziel.

I am sure that is true bu the problem is that the people down in Union Station weren't with the Cleveland contingent when they checked out other players, not only QBs but all other players so the problem is they had no context. The Browns may have shown the exact same or even more interest in other players so none of this information is coming from Cleveland from everything I've seen. Its all from Union Station so I'm sure it true information but take it with a grain of salt.

I actually was giving them credit for creating a false rumor. They are basically saying to the teams below please come up to #2 so that a certain other player falls to us.

I know I am biased because I believe Johnny Manziel is severely overrated. Does the franchise want to gamble there top pick in the draft on a QB that runs with reckless abandon? He could end up being clocked like Pat White. Do they confine him to the pocket? Take away his natural instincts. Even if Maziel fell to the 8th pick, I am not sure I want my Vikings to take him.

Edited by Donnybrook
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brohans i guess i am going to put it down and maybe get made fun of for it later on but i think this guy is going to be a good player and will just do well that is what this old boy thinks and hey i could really not care less about texas anything but i do like watching this guy play he was just a lot of fun and it was like zoom he got out of another one zang he just threw the ball and zong he just got a td just a lot of fun it is like a trick play in a person which i personally support so take that to the bank brohans

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It seems kind of strange to me that Cleveland would want Manziel when Lombardi has always been an admirer of the Patriot style of football. I recall his over exuberance as an NFL network reporter when the Pats drafted Ryan Mallet. Mallet and Manziel are polar opposites. Just like the Richardson trade, I don't think the Browns are as stupid as people expect them to be. The Browns wanting Manziel looks like an obvious smoke screen and media is eating it up.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the reports of Cleveland bein enamoured with Johnny Manziel. I did a lil digging and it seems those rumors have not come from the Browns but from Union Station. Obvoiusly the Browns would be checking all of the QBs who would have been available in the draft so I am positive that they sent scouts and maybe even Lombardi showed up for a game or two and the people down there would have seen them and felt that the Cleveland reps liked Manziel.

I am sure that is true bu the problem is that the people down in Union Station weren't with the Cleveland contingent when they checked out other players, not only QBs but all other players so the problem is they had no context. The Browns may have shown the exact same or even more interest in other players so none of this information is coming from Cleveland from everything I've seen. Its all from Union Station so I'm sure it true information but take it with a grain of salt.

I actually was giving them credit for creating a false rumor. They are basically saying to the teams below please come up to #2 so that a certain other player falls to us.

I know I am biased because I believe Johnny Manziel is severely overrated. Does the franchise want to gamble there top pick in the draft on a QB that runs with reckless abandon? He could end up being clocked like Pat White. Do they confine him to the pocket? Take away his natural instincts. Even if Maziel fell to the 8th pick, I am not sure I want my Vikings to take him.

I wasn't going to mention that but, yes, ofcourse it could have been a false rumor but they are coming from Union Station and those rumors started to emerge, I think the first ones were in early September, so I don't think the Browns were laying a trail of phoney bread crumbs back then.

Now you could be right about any new rumors surfacing because last year no one had a clue that the Browns were sold on Barkevious Mingo. If you go back to last year's draft and the mocks, everyone was clueless on what the Browns would do even up to draft day with the Browns on the clock Mayock threw his hands up in the air and looked directly into the camera and said he had no clue what the Browns would do so this new detente of Browns draft information seems very suspicious to say the least.

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Kiper has Texans taking him in his first mock

Yep.

just announced on the herd on ESPN radio

1 Manziel (Houston)

2. Matthews (St. Louis)

3. Clowney (Jax)

4. Bortles (Cleveland)

5. Waktins (Oakland)

just passing his first mock along. he did the top ten on the radio.

Bridgewater, No. 8 to Vikings

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2014/01/mel-kiper-jr-has-johnny-manziel-going-no-1-overall/

Mel Kiper Jr. has Johnny Manziel going No. 1 overall

ESPN.com’s Mel Kiper Jr. lifted the curtain on his first of many mock drafts as we head into May and his preliminary output has several surprises, chief of which: Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel going No. 1 overall.

Manziel’s name has always been big, but his stock related to the NFL Draft has seen an incredible ascent. Just weeks ago, he was given a grade that pegged him being selected toward the latter half of the first round. Kiper’s partner in crime, Todd McShay, had Manziel as the third-best quarterback in what was his first mock draft—a slot that would be linked to the Cleveland Browns with the No. 4 pick. Today, however, Kiper is the next draft analyst to have the electric, headline-making quarterback at the top of his list. Here’s why:

I spoke to a number of high-ranking NFL evaluators this week, and this is the one QB anyone felt certain was a top-5 pick. So consider this an early bet, with one major caveat: Bill O’Brien just arrived, is still putting his staff together, knows a good QB when he sees one, and hasn’t had enough time (if any) to study the draft class. But we know quarterback is a major need here. O’Brien likes a QB with presence, a leader and a guy who will out-prepare the competition. And while Manziel has gotten his share of bad press, he’s a dynamic talent, and I feel he can lead at the next level; I’m not alone in that opinion. While Manziel is currently ranked No. 11 on my Big Board, this reflects the draft.

Manziel doesn’t fit the old prototypes of a QB drafted No. 1, and I have concerns about how well he can protect himself given his smaller frame, but he is a magician on the field, and is made for the current NFL. This league protects and welcomes QBs who can improvise, run and make plays beyond the playbook. It’s early, but Manziel is a special player and has the draft process to prove it further.

Kiper, as you may have noticed, has laced this entire mock draft with caveats. This makes sense given the amount of time that is yet to pass between today and the actual draft. This said, ranking Manziel first overall, ahead of more polished passers like Louisville’s Teddy Bridgewater and UCF’s Blake Bortles (who he has linked to the Browns at No. 4) is surprising.

Ohio State fans will have mixed emotions with regard to the mock as linebacker Ryan Shazier was completely left out of the first round. That said, Kiper has running back Carlos Hyde being selected by the Browns with the 26th-overall pick, the one that was, ironically, acquired in the deal for running back Trent Richardson. Naturally, the draftnik also insinuated that it is very unlikely to happen given the potential for a trade or a quarterback like Fresno State’s David Carr (also left out of the first round) to be selected there.

Silver lining: Kiper listed Cleveland’s situation as “a really attractive environment for a young quarterback to grow and succeed.” When’s the last time this could be said with a straight face?

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  • Faust changed the title to Official Johnny Manziel Thread - participates in Fan Controlled Football: 'Feels like I'm super washed up'

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