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Marvel Cinematic Universe - Can Deadpool Save the MCU? You betcha, friendo! (9 Viewers)

Critical Drinker Reviews Loki

Sums up my thoughts. MCU ended at End Game for me. 
It will be super difficult to keep up the quality through Endgame, and I have my doubts about Eternals, but I think these D+ shows have been outstanding. There will be a drop off at some point but I’m looking forward to Dr Strange 2. Im hopeful that they don’t sink too far into the multiverses as I think it will drive more casual people away, and I’ve mentioned before that generally I don’t like time travel. 

 
It will be super difficult to keep up the quality through Endgame, and I have my doubts about Eternals, but I think these D+ shows have been outstanding. There will be a drop off at some point but I’m looking forward to Dr Strange 2. Im hopeful that they don’t sink too far into the multiverses as I think it will drive more casual people away, and I’ve mentioned before that generally I don’t like time travel. 
the new thor should be good as well.....

 
I went in to the finale expecting to be let down.  But I feel like I was let down in a different way then I expected, and was disappointed in that there was a cliffhanger. Although the more I read through the above, the better it sounds and the less disappointed I feel. But it was very slow and methodical through the series.

I didn't catch who "He who remains" is, but if he is who you say then I am intrigued. I did like the opening of the multiverse and how it may lead into the movies too. I am still in on the MCU despite the ending....

 
I am 100% sure this was covered but a lot of this stuff gets jumbled in my small brain. Can’t do spoiler tags so next part is SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

from what I remember, he who is the last one (Kang) sets up the TVA as a way to stop the variant Kangs from all killing each other. But that was in the 33rd Century. How or why did that affect anyone or anything before that timeline. And on top of that, why did any of the nexus events push the Kang war closer to happening.

SPOILER OVER. DONT READ SPOILER ABOVE. 

 
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I am 100% sure this was covered but a lot of this stuff gets jumbled in my small brain. Can’t do spoiler tags so next part is SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

from what I remember, he who is the last one (Kang) sets up the TVA as a way to stop the variant Kangs from all killing each other. But that was in the 33rd Century. How or why did that affect anyone or anything before that timeline. And on top of that, why did any of the nexus events push the Kang war closer to happening.

SPOILER OVER. DONT READ SPOILER ABOVE. 
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

I am totally stealing this spoiler shtick.

SPOILER OVER. DONT READ SPOILER ABOVE. 

 
My guess is they will introduce the multi-verse in small doses via Dr Strange and the next Spidey to ease viewers into it. The animated Into the Spiderverse and the Arrow-verse tv shows for DC handled multi-verses pretty well but those are more niche genre properties, not the big time MCU as it is now. It’s doable, but obviously they’ve got to be careful and not go too comic-book nerdy or lose the mainstream which I imagine they are well aware of.

 
I love the multiverse aspect in Spider-Man but I don’t need the entire MCU timeline hopping. Maybe that’s what the comics were for a time but for me as a movie fan this is an unfortunate development. 

 
Loki was about being able to change who you are and evolve. Not about a big bad guy reveal. Im excited for Loki to take a main role going forward and assemble the new avengers. 

 
It will be super difficult to keep up the quality through Endgame, and I have my doubts about Eternals, but I think these D+ shows have been outstanding. There will be a drop off at some point but I’m looking forward to Dr Strange 2. Im hopeful that they don’t sink too far into the multiverses as I think it will drive more casual people away, and I’ve mentioned before that generally I don’t like time travel. 
The multiverse is the best direction they could go here. It allows them to recast major characters whose actors drop out and have an in-universe excuse. It also allows them to bring in Fantastic Four and X-Men from a different universe that I will dub “20th Century Fox”

 
The multiverse is the best direction they could go here. It allows them to recast major characters whose actors drop out and have an in-universe excuse. It also allows them to bring in Fantastic Four and X-Men from a different universe that I will dub “20th Century Fox”
Personally I hope Loki and the TVA prune all the remaining Fantastic Four universes. 

 
This I didn’t get.  I thought they were basic elemental/cosmic powers.  Space gods can’t handle them but somehow now they are just paperweights?  
Mobius told Loki that his powers wouldn’t work in the TVA. The Tesseract also didn’t work when Loki tried them. I just assumed that all magic was broken there which is why the stones were just glowing paperweights.

 
The comics established that infinity stones derive power from the reality from which they were formed, therefore when they leave that reality their powers are cut off and they are inert. The TVA is outside of all realities.
Plus the timeline they came from gets destroyed (pruned?) and further detaches them from any reality, rendering them powerless.

 
Right, but how/why?
The comics established that infinity stones derive power from the reality from which they were formed, therefore when they leave that reality their powers are cut off and they are inert. The TVA is outside of all realities.
This is right.  The reason why Endgame worked was because the Avengers went back in time in their own timeline, so the stones still worked because they were from the same universe.  Once a stone goes out of its universe, it is a paperweight.

 
This Marvel multiverse stuff seems eerily reminiscent of the DC Crisis on Infinite Earths era (and follow-up) which I found convoluted and annoying as hell. 

 
My memory from my comic days is that the multiverse was a heavy part of certain titles like Dr. Strange and Silver Surfer. The rest used it in a few story lines or to set up new or returning characters like Longshot in X-Men.

 
I love the multiverse aspect in Spider-Man but I don’t need the entire MCU timeline hopping. Maybe that’s what the comics were for a time but for me as a movie fan this is an unfortunate development. 
Once you open the time travel thing you can't put the genie back in the bottle and that's where a lot of movies/shows suck.  Hey here's this super cool show about a plane crash and an island and these interesting characters and these mysterious "others" snaking around and whats that noise wait is that a fricken polar bear and magic numbers they have to type into a computer or everyone dies and what there are houses on the island and oh its time travel ah #### I quit. 

Strange and endgame and, to a lesser extent, infinity war, messed with time travel/timelines. Endgame even explicitly talked about the multiple timelines when the ancient one refused the stones to banner at first, and the whole reason captain America went back was to avoid creating a separate branch, which they explicitly talked about in loki. So at least it's all consistent so far.   But it sucks because a dead character used to mean dead dead and now it just means dead for now.  How do you have high stakes conflict when one version dies and there are infinite others?

The final episode seemed like it was all tell, but it wasn't really.  They showed different lokis and added an interesting new character.  Different Thors are now possible.  They showed how all the timelines work and how different they can be but also how they branch.  They gave a sense of scope to the whole thing - there's infinite timelines but there's also an after the timelines that isn't quite written yet. 

But more importantly they established consequences.  Killing the weird dude just brought a new worse dude.  There are good dudes and bad dudes and they are all hyper aware of the timelines and have powers that let them bounce between them and do bad things to the people in them, and they have different ethics that don't seem to mind killing off an entire branch of the multiverse to protect their own.  Loki is aware of the different branches, but most people aren't, even mobius. 

They also established a new bad dude and the bad dude sounds really bad but we've only gotten a glimpse. That was the formula that made the first phases of the marvel universe work..  you introduce characters, you introduce powerful villains who seem like they can defeat them and you show how strong your characters are by how they overcome the bad guys.  But where do you go from thanos, who seemed like the biggest baddest guy ever?  That's why they had to set up their next biggest baddest opponent and make it someone who can throw nasty things at them the next few movies, and where they can win some and lose some but ultimately face an impossible opponent and then somehow beat them.  

So I'm cautiously optimistic that they can do a good job with this next phase but they are walking a dangerous line where they can easily lose their core audience.  The ending, to me, gave me hope that they're doing it right.

 
Awesome episode.  Awesome actor to play Kang. I actually kind of hope that he maintains a certain level of goofiness......but if he just goes full on warlord as the REAL Kang...that's cool too. 

This was the perfect way for Disney/Marvel to utilize a huge story to bring their real acquisitions into the fold in an organic way. I'd imagine that everything in the past 30 years of Marvel entertainment (that Disney owns or can borrow) will be utilized in some way.....and while some of those deep tracks and call backs will befuddle the casual fan....it will be an awesome ride.  

 
This was the perfect way for Disney/Marvel to utilize a huge story to bring their real acquisitions into the fold in an organic way. I'd imagine that everything in the past 30 years of Marvel entertainment (that Disney owns or can borrow) will be utilized in some way.....and while some of those deep tracks and call backs will befuddle the casual fan....it will be an awesome ride.  
I guess this is possible but seems like wishful thinking to me.  They need to hire and pay better writers to pull something like this off. Wanda vas very clever, good writing IMO, especially the first half. They did a few things that didn’t make sense, but overall very good television. Falcon/soldier and Loki were big disappointments for me, mostly due to what I view as weak, lazy writing.

One of the main disappointments for me in this one was how they completely changed the Loki character. I don’t know the comics, but in the movies he’s supposed to be the God of Mischief, a powerful villain, anti-hero, son of frost giants, magical, strong, devious, ruthless.  This Loki was none of that.  

 
I guess this is possible but seems like wishful thinking to me.  They need to hire and pay better writers to pull something like this off. Wanda vas very clever, good writing IMO, especially the first half. They did a few things that didn’t make sense, but overall very good television. Falcon/soldier and Loki were big disappointments for me, mostly due to what I view as weak, lazy writing.

One of the main disappointments for me in this one was how they completely changed the Loki character. I don’t know the comics, but in the movies he’s supposed to be the God of Mischief, a powerful villain, anti-hero, son of frost giants, magical, strong, devious, ruthless.  This Loki was none of that.  
It was a redemption for him. 

 
I guess this is possible but seems like wishful thinking to me.  They need to hire and pay better writers to pull something like this off. Wanda vas very clever, good writing IMO, especially the first half. They did a few things that didn’t make sense, but overall very good television. Falcon/soldier and Loki were big disappointments for me, mostly due to what I view as weak, lazy writing.

One of the main disappointments for me in this one was how they completely changed the Loki character. I don’t know the comics, but in the movies he’s supposed to be the God of Mischief, a powerful villain, anti-hero, son of frost giants, magical, strong, devious, ruthless.  This Loki was none of that.  
Movies/TV feature character arcs all the time, they would be boring if a character had to stay the same as they were first introduced.  Anakin Skywalker was a good guy, who turned into the worst guy, and then was redeemed in the end.  I love the Loki character, I loved his transition in the MCU (Thor and Loki hugging it out), and I loved his character here.  When he was arrested by the TVA, he was the same Loki we first saw in the MCU, who had not started his redemption arc.  When Loki met all the other Lokis, OG Loki said "We are broken, and when we try to fix ourselves they prune us" (or something like that).  In this show we see Loki absolutely broken, fearing being alone, and finally caring for someone else (even if it was him/herself).  To me it was a great character arc of growth. The twist at the end where Sylvie's hunger for revenge won out over happiness with Loki was a real dagger.

FatWS was not as good.  Not bad, just run of the mill.  I thought Loki was miles ahead of it but to each his own.  I too am fearful of time travel and multiverses.  It does make it easy for a character to return.  I don't like that comics use it as such as crutch.  When I read a comic story, I just have to put it to the side and say "Here's a new Spiderman story" and not try to worry if we are on Earth 616 or not.  Hopefully the movies will be more straight forward with only occasional dips into this territory.

 
I guess this is possible but seems like wishful thinking to me.  They need to hire and pay better writers to pull something like this off. Wanda vas very clever, good writing IMO, especially the first half. They did a few things that didn’t make sense, but overall very good television. Falcon/soldier and Loki were big disappointments for me, mostly due to what I view as weak, lazy writing.

One of the main disappointments for me in this one was how they completely changed the Loki character. I don’t know the comics, but in the movies he’s supposed to be the God of Mischief, a powerful villain, anti-hero, son of frost giants, magical, strong, devious, ruthless.  This Loki was none of that.  
Loki has always been devious but in the movies he's never been powerful or strong on his own.  He sought out the tesseract to become strong.  He allied with Thanos to become strong.  But he lost almost every fight he was in.  Iron man shot him, black widow tricked him, Hulk mopped the floor with him, he was afraid of Jeff goldblum, thor put a zapper thingy on him... even when he had every bit of help he could ask for he generally lost.  Then they took away his powers and told him what he was and showed him his whole life's timeline all the way to his death and it seemed to change him.  His delusions of glorious purpose were proven to be bull####.  So the deviousness and ruthlessness weren't quite the same but the cunning was still there which is how he found lokette.  We didn't get to see him use all his capabilities but he wasn't in situations where they would have helped much except maybe the train fight which was dumb I'll agree on that. 

I expect that season 2 will have him continue the good guy arc- which we saw some of in thor the dark world and Ragnarok and infinity war- as he sounds the alarm and tries to save the multiverse or at least himself. 

 
I am 100% sure this was covered but a lot of this stuff gets jumbled in my small brain. Can’t do spoiler tags so next part is SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

from what I remember, he who is the last one (Kang) sets up the TVA as a way to stop the variant Kangs from all killing each other. But that was in the 33rd Century. How or why did that affect anyone or anything before that timeline. And on top of that, why did any of the nexus events push the Kang war closer to happening.

SPOILER OVER. DONT READ SPOILER ABOVE. 
No one with an answer for this

@bostonfred

@Corporation

 
No one with an answer for this

@bostonfred

@Corporation
Spoilers from the show only I am not a comic book guy and don't know anything about future marvel movies/shows

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER 

Because he is the one who set up the tva and could go back and forth in time and between multiverses.  And those multiverses are all playing out at different times everywhere or else there would be no reason for the tva to go to the year 2015 to get loki in endgame stealing the tesseract or the year 2300 to the Walmart or all the way back to Pompeii. They weren't going back in time on their timeline, they were going to another multiverse that was that point in time and a variance was about to occur from the sacred timeline. 

One kang said holy #### a lot of these other kangs are really evil my timeline produced a benevolent kang I'll prune any event that diverges in any meaningful way from my timeline and/or prune every timeline that isn't like mine so that they never get to exist.

Silvie lost everything because of that, and dedicated her life to revenge (which is actually pretty reasonable if you think about it since they kept hunting her and planned to zap her with a melty stick thing). From her perspective, this kang was plenty evil.  Which he acknowledged when he said yeah but we're all murderers here so grow up. 

But without him doing that, all kinds of timeline variations that would have been pruned in different multiverses at different points in time were allowed to happen, and it stands to reason that the most powerful version of kang to emerge would end up coming to the same conclusion if he weren't already aware of what good kang had been doing so we get a planet of the apes moment at the tva when we realize bad kang looks just like good kang and started the tva himself.  

 
Just going to throw this out there for the people who hate the loki story and multiverse theme

One really good way to deal with the multiverse topic is to have a new fantastic 4 movie, with the right actor for Richard Reid and the right actors for loki, etc, but also make it possible to understand for people who don't have Disney plus 

Then you have the thor movie as planned 

Then you have a bunch of "normal" mcu movies that have nothing to do with multiverse 

And if polling says that people hate multiverse... they'll contain it to loki season 2.  If people are on board... they go forward with it

For my money - and I love science fiction and interesting time travel or other world building- there is no ####### way I put all my chips in front j t of me and say multiverse or bust 

Then again I didn't build the most expensive/most profitable franchise in movie history 

 
Just going to throw this out there for the people who hate the loki story and multiverse theme

One really good way to deal with the multiverse topic is to have a new fantastic 4 movie, with the right actor for Richard Reid and the right actors for loki, etc, but also make it possible to understand for people who don't have Disney plus 

Then you have the thor movie as planned 

Then you have a bunch of "normal" mcu movies that have nothing to do with multiverse 

And if polling says that people hate multiverse... they'll contain it to loki season 2.  If people are on board... they go forward with it

For my money - and I love science fiction and interesting time travel or other world building- there is no ####### way I put all my chips in front j t of me and say multiverse or bust 

Then again I didn't build the most expensive/most profitable franchise in movie history 
I think the Spider Man and Dr. Strange movies slated to come out in this phase have multi-verse elements.

 
It was a redemption for him. 
As a deeply flawed individual myself I've loved the story.  Loki reminds me a lot of myself.  Greedy, overly ambitious, powerful but not the strongest, self centered ahole where the ends always justified the means.  Fortunately (?) through tragedy I had the equivalent of an Acme safe dropped on my head to make me see life through a different lens.  So I have more of a connection to the character. 

 
Loki has always been devious but in the movies he's never been powerful or strong on his own.  He sought out the tesseract to become strong.  He allied with Thanos to become strong.  But he lost almost every fight he was in.  Iron man shot him, black widow tricked him, Hulk mopped the floor with him, he was afraid of Jeff goldblum, thor put a zapper thingy on him... even when he had every bit of help he could ask for he generally lost.  Then they took away his powers and told him what he was and showed him his whole life's timeline all the way to his death and it seemed to change him.  His delusions of glorious purpose were proven to be bull####.  So the deviousness and ruthlessness weren't quite the same but the cunning was still there which is how he found lokette.  We didn't get to see him use all his capabilities but he wasn't in situations where they would have helped much except maybe the train fight which was dumb I'll agree on that. 

I expect that season 2 will have him continue the good guy arc- which we saw some of in thor the dark world and Ragnarok and infinity war- as he sounds the alarm and tries to save the multiverse or at least himself. 
All true and I would like to amend my previous statement because I never lost. ;)

 
Loki has always been devious but in the movies he's never been powerful or strong on his own.  He sought out the tesseract to become strong.  He allied with Thanos to become strong.  But he lost almost every fight he was in.  Iron man shot him, black widow tricked him, Hulk mopped the floor with him, he was afraid of Jeff goldblum, thor put a zapper thingy on him... even when he had every bit of help he could ask for he generally lost.  Then they took away his powers and told him what he was and showed him his whole life's timeline all the way to his death and it seemed to change him.  His delusions of glorious purpose were proven to be bull####.  So the deviousness and ruthlessness weren't quite the same but the cunning was still there which is how he found lokette.  We didn't get to see him use all his capabilities but he wasn't in situations where they would have helped much except maybe the train fight which was dumb I'll agree on that. 

I expect that season 2 will have him continue the good guy arc- which we saw some of in thor the dark world and Ragnarok and infinity war- as he sounds the alarm and tries to save the multiverse or at least himself. 
Maybe they can do Thanos next, where he teams up with Loki and they harness the power of the infinity stones to save the whales, but are repeatedly thwarted by normal human cops beating them up.

 
Maybe they can do Thanos next, where he teams up with Loki and they harness the power of the infinity stones to save the whales, but are repeatedly thwarted by normal human cops beating them up.
Yes yet another mcu character who easily crushed the super powerful Loki and how could I forget the one who literally killed him. Did Loki win a single fight in the mcu movies?  Did he even fight someone hand to hand?  He used the scepter thing in the first avengers movie to make other people fight for him, he used the tesseract to bring bad guys to NYC, he used magic to pop up behind coulson and stab him in the back but that didn't even kill him... he was always a ####ty fighter 

 
Yes yet another mcu character who easily crushed the super powerful Loki and how could I forget the one who literally killed him. Did Loki win a single fight in the mcu movies?  Did he even fight someone hand to hand?  He used the scepter thing in the first avengers movie to make other people fight for him, he used the tesseract to bring bad guys to NYC, he used magic to pop up behind coulson and stab him in the back but that didn't even kill him... he was always a ####ty fighter 
He fought Thor in the first Thor movie and in the Avengers hand to hand. Lost in both of course.

 

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