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US Men's National Team (5 Viewers)

Big picture 

1) young guys getting solid concacaf experience 

2) GGG learning the limitations of his MLS players (and Sargent) 

3) Mexico will show where we are really at 

4) team playing together for the first time 

This type of tournament should pay dividends long term.

 
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As already pointed out, there's something wrong with this formation. They just look out of sync. And, I know it's already been mentioned plenty and clear how I feel as well, but you can't have such a weak player in the ####### middle of the field like Yueill, even playing deep, and not have it affect everything else. The rest of the USMNT were passing around him.

When we got excited early on with friendlies a few months ago we had a MF engine of Adams/McKennie/Musah. That turned into Yueill/McKennie/Lletget and I think that matters too much for everyone else.

 
gianmarco said:
As already pointed out, there's something wrong with this formation. They just look out of sync. And, I know it's already been mentioned plenty and clear how I feel as well, but you can't have such a weak player in the ####### middle of the field like Yueill, even playing deep, and not have it affect everything else. The rest of the USMNT were passing around him.

When we got excited early on with friendlies a few months ago we had a MF engine of Adams/McKennie/Musah. That turned into Yueill/McKennie/Lletget and I think that matters too much for everyone else.
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There is nothing more depressing than a fan base as disjointed and broken as the US, all agreeing en masse about a player like Yueill and only the coach does not see it.

 
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Had work I couldn't get out of tonight, so had to watch the game late.  Was able to avoid spoilers, so happy about that... AND we won, so happy about that....  Not happy about much else.

If Yueill or Lletget start against Mexico, it should be a job costing offense by GGG.  They have no business being on that field as starters.  Honduras.... not even a top 50 team in the world, controlled the midfield tonight.  That's just unacceptable.  Even worse.  I was sitting at about 70 minutes in thinking, man Pulisic has been quiet tonight.  About a minute later he gets the ball and the announcer says... "Pulisic needs to get more involved, that's only his 32nd touch tonight."   WTF.  That's on Lletget, Yueill and Robinson(and CP too yea, but we want him getting touches in dangerous areas, not at midfield and that's where those three come in.)

Speaking of Pulisic and his limited touches...  Why in the gosh darn #### is Lletget taking set pieces?  You have a star player that is being man marked out of the game that is an excellent crosser and passer, then you better gosh darn well have him putting in corners and free kicks hoping it helps bring him into the flow.  If Lletget starts again(which would already show how much of an idiot GGG is), then he'd better be watching Pulisic take free kicks, because he was ####### awful at it.  I remember only 1 dangerous ball all game.  Unacceptable.

Another thing I did notice with Pulisic...  When he got the ball on the left he was immediately closed down by their LB or CB AND their CDM.  Literally two guys every time CP touched the ball, yet no one was making a run in behind that CB or LB.  If teams played Pulisic at Chelsea like they did tonight, Werner would have 13 missed shots because of all the open runs he'd be getting.  GGG better be on the ### of Sargent on making that run(and Reyna making the matching one behind in case the other CB goes with Sarge.  There was WAY too much ball watching when Pulisic touched it.  It was like everyone expected him to Messi through the D and leave them a sitter.

The defense wasn't bad.  Brooks had a couple of iffy one on ones, but otherwise was solid.  He also put in two of the best passes into the box we had all night, one which led to the score.  I love seeing that talent, but it says a lot about our midfield if we need our CB to be putting those balls in.  McKenzie was great.  I thought he played tough.  Didn't make any obvious errors and played rather clean, which is tough against a team diving at all contact.

Sarge had some good moments.   Had a couple of good chances that I'd like to see our striker burying.  That D clearance was money.  Still, felt like he was just ok.  OK isn't good enough for the USA, or at least shouldn't be.  Pefok(which I'm calling Siab forever from now on) was more involved in his 15 minutes than Sarge was in the previous 30.  I think he deserves a look up front against Mexico.  Plus his size gives us a little more fear factor on crosses.

Gio was our best attacker tonight.  He should've scored, but that was a beautiful little dribble to get him that chance.  He definitely got the taste of CONCACAF tonight with how many times he was tackled.  I like that he didn't get too frustrated by it and kept pushing.

Moving Forward:

I know it's pretty much already been set in stone to be MLSers at the Gold Cup, but I think that's a mistake.  Clearly this team is a talented group of individuals.  They're not a team yet and it shows.  I think the best thing we could do would be to give them the entire gold cup to try and find chemistry.  I think we're crippling ourselves for qualifying by not doing it.

I've been critical of GGG in the past.  I stopped being so critical based on his work with the dual nats.  He's been great at getting top dual nationals to commit to us.  That's a huge plus for him and I love him for it.  Tactically.... he's lost.  We're 10 times better than Honduras.  Yes, I know they CONCACAFed the #### out of the game tonight and the ref keeping his cards pocketed until late didn't help, but we're not better than the sum of our parts with GGG on the bench and that worries me.  Maybe it's just lack of chemistry and it will come, but I can't help but feel like a real, true, top talent coach would already have us clicking on close to all cylinders.  I am officially worried about qualifying.

Final Thought:

HOW IN THE #### DID WE NOT HAVE EVEN ONE PLAYER STRETCHERED OFF IN EXTRA TIME??!!!???  LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME BOYS(and I'm not talking soccer)!!

Edit:  GD is automatically switched to gosh darn now?   :lmao:

 
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I thought we played brilliantly.

I should also point out that I turned it on in the 87th minute because I had to attend a funeral.

 
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Reactions: Ned
1. Keep the MLS guys at the kiddies table. The international players just play on a different level, and the more of them on the pitch together, regardless of which league, team and amount of playing time for their club, the better they seem to play. 

2. Sargent is exemplary in his work rate and savvy at his position, we've pretty much seen his ceiling already and we have other options that can be plugged in right now without suffering much of a drop in quality. I think he still belongs on the A team, if for no other reason than to lead by example; the kid is definitely punching above his weight, and these more physically gifted players need that reminder that talent alone isn't enough.

3. All CONCACAF matches are dogfights, so it's good most of our top players got to experience one before taking on Mexico.  That said, I have a bad feeling, mainly because we will be out-coached.  I became a Tata fan when he was in Atlanta, and feel bad that he wasn't even considered to replace Klinsmann. My biggest hope for this match is that with the talent on both teams, they play a clean, classy game.

 
Charlie Steiner said:
1. Keep the MLS guys at the kiddies table. The international players just play on a different level, and the more of them on the pitch together, regardless of which league, team and amount of playing time for their club, the better they seem to play.
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Lletget and Yueill were not good.  Yueill has never been good but Lletget has been decent up til last night.  I really want to see Musah play against Mexico but Lletget appears to be GGG"s binky.

Your statement is ironic considering that the current and former Honduran MLS players out played our international players at times.

I will likely die on this hill alone but I really wish fans would focus on how players play as internationals instead of where they play as club players.   It is this thinking that I fear seeps into the players making them think they are better than they are because of their club status instead of proving it on the international field.  I am really hoping last night was a wake up call to the players.

 
McBokonon said:
This is still TBD. The lessons are there - just need to see that he’s learning them
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I have backed him for a while but his slow trigger last night drove me crazy.  In the end it worked out but it was left much too late.

I am also concerned GGG is over planning around Dest.  The first sub that we waited for ever for was to help out Dest.  It would not shock me if Tata simply tells Chucky to play on what ever side Dest plays on.   Where ever Dest plays, his CB gets caught in a bunch of 1 on 1's.  As good as Brooks is in the rest of his play, his 1v1 is not great.

We will see on Sunday.  He preached he expected to use many players.  If we see the identical line up trotted out against Mexico GGG is going to lose my faith.  But on the flip side, if he shows he can adapt and the team responds, I will feel much better.

 
Charlie Steiner said:
1. Keep the MLS guys at the kiddies table. The international players just play on a different level, and the more of them on the pitch together, regardless of which league, team and amount of playing time for their club, the better they seem to play. 
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You can't really do this though.  Our Euro player pool is ~15 deep and with the three-game international break we're routinely going to be fielding 20+ players each window (before we even get to suspensions, injuries, etc).  And you can't just throw them in when you need them -- they have to play together ahead of that too.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
You can't really do this though.  Our Euro player pool is ~15 deep and with the three-game international break we're routinely going to be fielding 20+ players each window (before we even get to suspensions, injuries, etc).  And you can't just throw them in when you need them -- they have to play together ahead of that too.
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This.

We/GGG needs to focus on the right MLS players (or other Euro players) to fill out the roster.  This is why the Gold Cup is going to be sneaky important. 

I agree with @encaitarthat I would have preferred the main team to play in the Gold Cup but I think that ship has sailed.  Unless GGG gets fired after the Mexico game (which is unlikely) I don't see him changing his mind on giving the players some rest before they rejoin their teams.

Hopefully something positive can come out of it in terms of finding some improved options for the teams depth.

 
Since I couldn't watch the US game, does anyone think that Zardes would be an improvement over any of the players? Maybe in place of Lletget? Not really his role, I know. Can Gio move inside to free up one of the wings?

Musah has to start against Mexico

 
Just echoing the others concerns in here. Man, they are young but qualifying is going to be rough with this group. 

Yueill is terrible. In case anyone didn't know. 

 
NewlyRetired said:
I have backed him for a while but his slow trigger last night drove me crazy.  In the end it worked out but it was left much too late.

I am also concerned GGG is over planning around Dest.  The first sub that we waited for ever for was to help out Dest.  It would not shock me if Tata simply tells Chucky to play on what ever side Dest plays on.   Where ever Dest plays, his CB gets caught in a bunch of 1 on 1's.  As good as Brooks is in the rest of his play, his 1v1 is not great.

We will see on Sunday.  He preached he expected to use many players.  If we see the identical line up trotted out against Mexico GGG is going to lose my faith.  But on the flip side, if he shows he can adapt and the team responds, I will feel much better.
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I've been thinking about this...and think I've finally come around to the 3-4-2-1 idea especially if the other option is Yueill in the middle of the park.  It gets Swag (who would need to be one of the DMs) into the middle, frees Dest to not have to worry about the space he leaves (much like Chilwell with Chelsea), gets CP closer to the middle which he seems to have to do anyway, and arguably gets Yueill/Llegett off the field in favor of more dedicated defensive cover.

Of course this totally glosses over the fact that Chelsea 3-4-2-1 was otherworldly with Kante but fairly pedestrian without him, so who knows if it would actually work especially without Adams.  

 
The Z Machine said:
Since I couldn't watch the US game, does anyone think that Zardes would be an improvement over any of the players? Maybe in place of Lletget? Not really his role, I know. Can Gio move inside to free up one of the wings?

Musah has to start against Mexico
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I Like Zardes even though I often joke about him.  I don't see him a wing player though. 

His strength right now would be as the striker in this specific set up.  He would also function well in a two striker set up, should that ever happen.

When asking about Gio moving inside, do you mean as a striker or as an 8?  I don't think Gio has the work rate needed to be an 8 in this system.  One guy made this funny video which may illustrate the point :)  https://twitter.com/watke_/status/1400688476778024961?s=20

 
NewlyRetired said:
Lletget and Yueill were not good.  Yueill has never been good but Lletget has been decent up til last night.  I really want to see Musah play against Mexico but Lletget appears to be GGG"s binky.

Your statement is ironic considering that the current and former Honduran MLS players out played our international players at times.

I will likely die on this hill alone but I really wish fans would focus on how players play as internationals instead of where they play as club players.   It is this thinking that I fear seeps into the players making them think they are better than they are because of their club status instead of proving it on the international field.  I am really hoping last night was a wake up call to the players.
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I think the Honduran MLS players outplayed our guys is a factor of coaching/tactics and probably experience.  I didn't mean to imply that MLS players can't contribute, just that when choosing between them and the international players who instantly seem to mesh better with each other than with the MLS players, they shouldn't be considered starters if it can be avoided. TBH, I think Walker Zimmerman has shown well when called up, and a veteran like Nagbe would especially be welcome while we're hurting in the mid field. I like both Lleget and Yueill, but the difference in quality of play between them and the international players was on display for all to see last night.

I agree with your last point; I just think with the group that GGG called up, he had better options than Lleget and Yueill, and he should have been faster in getting them out of there, especially when Yueill was getting overrun.

Dinsy Ejotuz said:
You can't really do this though.  Our Euro player pool is ~15 deep and with the three-game international break we're routinely going to be fielding 20+ players each window (before we even get to suspensions, injuries, etc).  And you can't just throw them in when you need them -- they have to play together ahead of that too.
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That's a point I agree with. The problem last night was I think HON identified Yueill as the weak link and GGG should have pulled him at least by the start of the 2nd half. As a rule, it doesn't matter to me whether the players come from MLS or not, just that when they're out there, they hold their own, which didn't happen last night. 

The Z Machine said:
Lol.  It's CONCACAF 
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Yeah, I know. It just seems like neither team should feel the need to resort to bush league play, but I suppose if you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough.

 
So Mexico faded pretty hard last night.  They utterly dominated the first 60 minutes but then out of the blue, CR took hold of the game and probably out played Mexico in the last half hour.  It was a huge turn around especially considering how weak this CR team was (missing a ton of regulars).

I don't know if that was due to the elevation or the subs being weak as Tata subbed liberally in second half.

 
I’m sure it’s been mentioned but Lletget is the worst free kick taker.  Every single ball was under hit and easily defended. 

 
ChiefD said:
Yueill is terrible. In case anyone didn't know. 
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This really bugs me and has bugged me since the roster was announced. 

Yueill was not good in the U23 qualifying tournament.  His lack of bite and energy permeated that squad he was suppose to lead.  If he did not show well at that level, I am unsure why GGG thought he could perform at the next higher level.

 
berndog said:
I’m sure it’s been mentioned but Lletget is the worst free kick taker.  Every single ball was under hit and easily defended. 
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This is another area where having played Acosta over Yueil would have helped.  I kept screaming at my screen for Lletget to drive the ball but every single one was some soft floater and usually short as you mentioned.

I also did not understand the tactic of having Pulisic just standing there doing nothing next to him.   Pulisic can be annoying to a defense in and around the box if a ball spurts through.  Get him in there, as he was causing no extra concern to the Honduran defense while standing next to Lletget static.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
So Mexico faded pretty hard last night.  They utterly dominated the first 60 minutes but then out of the blue, CR took hold of the game and probably out played Mexico in the last half hour.  It was a huge turn around especially considering how weak this CR team was (missing a ton of regulars).

I don't know if that was due to the elevation or the subs being weak as Tata subbed liberally in second half.
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Maybe they started playing for PKs?

 
Charlie Steiner said:
2. Sargent is exemplary in his work rate and savvy at his position, we've pretty much seen his ceiling already and we have other options that can be plugged in right now without suffering much of a drop in quality. I think he still belongs on the A team, if for no other reason than to lead by example; the kid is definitely punching above his weight, and these more physically gifted players need that reminder that talent alone isn't enough.
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Gotta disagree with the bolded. I'm not some massive Sarge backer, but A) he's 21 and B) he's spent the last 2.5 years (key years) totally lost in the wilderness with a horrendous team that almost no striker could succeed or grow with.   Hard for him to develop as a striker when he hasn't been in a situation that allows him to work on those skills.    You cant take someone who's been working the grill at TGI Fridays, drop them in the kitchen at a 5 star restaurant and be upset that they dont immediately start churning out perfectly cooked meals.

Now....at some point, that excuse gets old. But I dont think we're there yet. Hopefully he gets to a real team this summer, gets an opportunity to actually play soccer and gets back on track. Unfortunately, there's not that much time. Qualifying starts in less than 3 months, so if he doesn't get a summer transfer and get into the team right away, he wont have a lot of opportunity to right the ship.

 
Charlie Steiner said:
I think the Honduran MLS players outplayed our guys is a factor of coaching/tactics and probably experience.  I didn't mean to imply that MLS players can't contribute, just that when choosing between them and the international players who instantly seem to mesh better with each other than with the MLS players, they shouldn't be considered starters if it can be avoided. TBH, I think Walker Zimmerman has shown well when called up, and a veteran like Nagbe would especially be welcome while we're hurting in the mid field. I like both Lleget and Yueill, but the difference in quality of play between them and the international players was on display for all to see last night.

I agree with your last point; I just think with the group that GGG called up, he had better options than Lleget and Yueill, and he should have been faster in getting them out of there, especially when Yueill was getting overrun.

That's a point I agree with. The problem last night was I think HON identified Yueill as the weak link and GGG should have pulled him at least by the start of the 2nd half. As a rule, it doesn't matter to me whether the players come from MLS or not, just that when they're out there, they hold their own, which didn't happen last night. 

Yeah, I know. It just seems like neither team should feel the need to resort to bush league play, but I suppose if you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough.
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Besides for CP drifting further inside to try to get on the ball more, did anyone notice any other tactical changes during the game?  

I'll also say over the past 2 years our national program has been pretty horrendous at picking our MLS talent.  Maybe that changes after the Gold Cup, but both Roldan's need another look, Busio needs to get integrated...Bye, Duncan, and Sands all need looks, etc....then there are all the other U23s that weren't on the Olympic radar but are performing.  

 
NewlyRetired said:
This is another area where having played Acosta over Yueil would have helped.  I kept screaming at my screen for Lletget to drive the ball but every single one was some soft floater and usually short as you mentioned.

I also did not understand the tactic of having Pulisic just standing there doing nothing next to him.   Pulisic can be annoying to a defense in and around the box if a ball spurts through.  Get him in there, as he was causing no extra concern to the Honduran defense while standing next to Lletget static.
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This was mind blowing to me.

There is no universe that he should be taking free kicks over Pulisic. Having him stand there next to him watching that take place takes it to whole other level of absurdity. Having it happen repeatedly, especially after watching the quality of the previous kicks?

I've never disliked GGG as much as last night. He got a lot of stuff wrong. And I'm not taking about "behind the scenes" stuff that we aren't privy to. Yueill getting significant minutes in two games in a row on a squad he barely belongs on, the above, and then late subs yesterday. Just completely botched it.

 
TLEF316 said:
Gotta disagree with the bolded. I'm not some massive Sarge backer, but A) he's 21 and B) he's spent the last 2.5 years (key years) totally lost in the wilderness with a horrendous team that almost no striker could succeed or grow with.   Hard for him to develop as a striker when he hasn't been in a situation that allows him to work on those skills.    You cant take someone who's been working the grill at TGI Fridays, drop them in the kitchen at a 5 star restaurant and be upset that they dont immediately start churning out perfectly cooked meals.

Now....at some point, that excuse gets old. But I dont think we're there yet. Hopefully he gets to a real team this summer, gets an opportunity to actually play soccer and gets back on track. Unfortunately, there's not that much time. Qualifying starts in less than 3 months, so if he doesn't get a summer transfer and get into the team right away, he wont have a lot of opportunity to right the ship.
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I fell in love with Sarge's game when I saw him link up with Jonathan Amon in a friendly shortly after Wet and Bumpy. Don't remember if it was his first USMNT appearance, but it was an early one. Last night, I didn't realize that was him chasing down a long cross early in the first half, because whoever that was showed better foot speed than I thought he had.  You're right that 21 is probably too young to write off a striker; my concern is: what team is going to sign him? He was a lynch pin on a team that got relegated, and his stats (which ultimately is the only measure prospective teams look at in any sport) don't really paint a picture of him being a must-have player. Many, many, many pages back I half-joked about getting him into the same kind of training program that Zlatan uses, i.e., build up his flexibility, fitness, etc.  To me, Sarge is all heart, all effort all the time and like I said upthread, he has outkicked his coverage. The problem is going to be, even though he may still have more potential to develop, so many things have to go exactly right for him to get there, yet in the mean time, he's important to keep around but not starting when we have other viable options.

 
Evidently my very unpopular opinion was that Brooks was not good.  A lot of "Experts" and online fans gave him MoM.  He was the 2nd worst player on the field for me.  Beaten easily 1v1 and if it wasn't for a poor decision by HON and a good block by Steffen, its 1-1 and going to PKs.  Often getting turned easily and being saved by HON flops. Nice pass early and nice pass leading to the goal, but other then that I thought he was off.  Poor positioning, rushes up field to foul players.  I seem to be in the minority on this.

Yeuill was the worst player on the field.  Even Gio was getting frustrated at him. When he did try and go forward he either passed to the HON def or out the end line. No awareness of space and time.

I like Lleget as a player.  One of the few MLS guys that has shown he should be a part of the USMNT.  BUT any tactics and formation that gives him the free roll and gets him on the ball more then Pulisic or Reyna is just bad.

Pulisic was running at people (most weren't), but was easily dispossesed.  Rough day for him.

 
Charlie Steiner said:
I fell in love with Sarge's game when I saw him link up with Jonathan Amon in a friendly shortly after Wet and Bumpy. Don't remember if it was his first USMNT appearance, but it was an early one. Last night, I didn't realize that was him chasing down a long cross early in the first half, because whoever that was showed better foot speed than I thought he had.  You're right that 21 is probably too young to write off a striker; my concern is: what team is going to sign him? He was a lynch pin on a team that got relegated, and his stats (which ultimately is the only measure prospective teams look at in any sport) don't really paint a picture of him being a must-have player. Many, many, many pages back I half-joked about getting him into the same kind of training program that Zlatan uses, i.e., build up his flexibility, fitness, etc.  To me, Sarge is all heart, all effort all the time and like I said upthread, he has outkicked his coverage. The problem is going to be, even though he may still have more potential to develop, so many things have to go exactly right for him to get there, yet in the mean time, he's important to keep around but not starting when we have other viable options.
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We may have to agree to disagree, but I dont think the bolded is true. If prospective teams just look at his goal count (as part of THAT team) and write him off as a non-option, they're not very good at their jobs.

Not saying Champions league teams should be lining up for his services, but if I'm running a mid-table team on a budget that already has some decent (not great obviously, or they wouldn't be mid-table, but at least passable) creative players, I'm seeing an opportunity to get a steal and unlock some potential that has been buried under a pile of crap the past 30 months.

Its easy to forget that scoring goals was literally what this kid did before he ended up in that hell hole. (30 in 48 games for the U-17's, 4 in 6 games with the U-20's, 5 in his first 12 games with the seniors). Granted 3 of those 5 senior goals were against Cuba, but this kid was a good finisher as a teenager. I dont think that skill is gone.  I think the right situation can bring it back.

 
B Maverick said:
Evidently my very unpopular opinion was that Brooks was not good.  A lot of "Experts" and online fans gave him MoM.  He was the 2nd worst player on the field for me.  Beaten easily 1v1 and if it wasn't for a poor decision by HON and a good block by Steffen, its 1-1 and going to PKs.  Often getting turned easily and being saved by HON flops. Nice pass early and nice pass leading to the goal, but other then that I thought he was off.  Poor positioning, rushes up field to foul players.  I seem to be in the minority on this.

Yeuill was the worst player on the field.  Even Gio was getting frustrated at him. When he did try and go forward he either passed to the HON def or out the end line. No awareness of space and time.

I like Lleget as a player.  One of the few MLS guys that has shown he should be a part of the USMNT.  BUT any tactics and formation that gives him the free roll and gets him on the ball more then Pulisic or Reyna is just bad.

Pulisic was running at people (most weren't), but was easily dispossesed.  Rough day for him.
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I agree with all of this.  Brooks was WAY too noticeable as a CB, and not in a good way.  On the flipside, McKenzie, for me, was outstanding.  He calmly held his own, especially against a team that went down with a whiff of air, and had a couple forward passes that he's capable of to break lines. 

I think we need to look at a back 3 of McKenzie/Brooks/Richards if we are going to be without Adams.  Put Dest and Robinson on the outside.  I like what I've seen from Antonee moreso than Cannon and I think Dest also works better on the right.  Then you can start any combo of 4 of McKennie/Musah/Aaronson/Pulisic/Gio depending on availability, health, form, formation.  Up top, I don't care who at this point.  I'm still fine with Sargent but I also don't care if we go with Sieb or Dike.  Hell, throw Weah up there and see how it works.

 
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