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Ran a 10k - Official Thread


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1 hour ago, xulf said:

It looks like on Hansons plan you never run more 16 miles for a long run.  How do you make it / be prepared for the other 10+ :oldunsure:

 

I'm something of a contrarian on this, but I'm a big fan of multiple runs of 20 miles ..and more.  I like to have a couple runs of 22-23 miles. (Last training cycle I had a 21, 22, and 23 miler.)   The logic is that those miles at a slow pace is close to the time-on-feet of the faster marathon effort.  I also try to have two or three double digits runs each week with a number of those in the high teens.

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Just finished running and thought of a better way to try and give my point of view.

Doing the training is "easy".  It's time consuming.  It's a lot of miles and dedication.  But you just plug through it and, especially without the stress of work, you'll get into a groove and get it done.

So, how can things go wrong on race day:

1)  Not fueling/hydrating adequately -- All the prep in the world will go down the toilet if you don't address this on race day.  And race day isn't the time to do it for the first time.  It takes practice.  It took me a few long runs to really get comfortable with it.  Finding out what you like, how often, how you like to carry it, etc.

2)  Going out too fast -- All the prep in the world will go down the toilet if you come out too hot.  You can't get that back.  As @JShare87said above, start slow your first few miles.  He gave me that advice.  I felt I was already running at a conservative pace so I didn't think it would matter.  I also was following the 9:00 pacer and figured I'd stay with him.  Unfortunately, he went out hot and I never felt comfortable from the start and I ended up paying for it.  I wish I had the discipline to go back and fix my pacing for those first 3-4 miles and eased into it more.

3)  Not being physically/mentally prepared for that final 10K.  Everyone here has said it over and over.  You have no idea what it will be like until you go through it.  Well....yep.  So, this is why my wife said she wished she did at least one 20 mile run.  At least for the first marathon.  I think subsequent marathons it's not as important if you're doing Hanson's, but I do think it is for that first one. 

4)  Not getting to the start line healthy -- If you overtrain, you'll compromise your race day.  Don't overdo the paces.  Don't try and make up missed workouts if you have any.

If you avoid those things, you'll get through the beast.  I was so preoccupied with my paces and plan as I got closer to it when in the end, it didn't matter.  If I had just avoided the above traps, things would have gone better.  I'll be sure to do it this time around.

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3 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Calc says you can run a 3:30 marathon (8:02 pace).

If you are in the same shape as you were for Chief's HM, then use that as your goal pace and see how things go. You can always adjust.

GTFO :oldunsure:

 

The longest run I've done was 16 miles at 8:29/mi.  I probably could have made that to 20, but adding another 6+ miles and dropping the pace by 27 seconds seems tough.  But, hey, if that's what it says, then may as well use it as a starting point. 

I'm probably in equal shape now as I was then.  I would certainly be in better shape by the race than I was during that run HM.

Thanks for all the comments/thoughts guys :thumbup:  I will check out the book.  I definitely need to make sure I dont go out too fast, that can be a problem for me and I know this isnt the type of race to do it.  Also, I had already had it in my head to get in some 20 mi runs, so based on what's been said I'll put those in the plan.

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2 minutes ago, xulf said:

8:02 is so close to 7:59...:mellow:

I get you're writing this in jest, but don't get married to a particular pace right now. Identify a realistic one understanding it is going to get amended multiple times. You're already in uncharted weekly mileage territory in the training before the training stage. You would probably pr everything right now and you haven't actually started training. 

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13 minutes ago, xulf said:

GTFO :oldunsure:

 

The longest run I've done was 16 miles at 8:29/mi.  I probably could have made that to 20, but adding another 6+ miles and dropping the pace by 27 seconds seems tough.  But, hey, if that's what it says, then may as well use it as a starting point. 

I'm probably in equal shape now as I was then.  I would certainly be in better shape by the race than I was during that run HM.

Thanks for all the comments/thoughts guys :thumbup:  I will check out the book.  I definitely need to make sure I dont go out too fast, that can be a problem for me and I know this isnt the type of race to do it.  Also, I had already had it in my head to get in some 20 mi runs, so based on what's been said I'll put those in the plan.

You also ran 13.1 at 7:42 pace. Just saying...

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4 hours ago, xulf said:

So, uh...what should my GMP be?  

It looks like on Hansons plan you never run more 16 miles for a long run.  How do you make it / be prepared for the other 10+ :oldunsure:

 

I know I’m in the minority here, but I don’t like Hanson’s. For a first-timer I’d prob recommend a Hal Higdon plan.

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2 hours ago, gianmarco said:

So, how can things go wrong on race day:

1)  Not fueling/hydrating adequately -- All the prep in the world will go down the toilet if you don't address this in the days leading up to, and on, race day.  And race day isn't the time to do it for the first time.  It takes practice.  It took me a few long runs to really get comfortable with it.  Finding out what you like, how often, how you like to carry it, etc.

 

Modification on this first point.  But the general point is certainly one of the keys.

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4 hours ago, xulf said:

So, uh...what should my GMP be?  

It looks like on Hansons plan you never run more 16 miles for a long run.  How do you make it / be prepared for the other 10+ :oldunsure:

 

Because the Hanson plan is designed to train you for the last 10, not the first 16.

The cumulative fatigue training is a powerful thing. I have done both plans - my first two marathons I did the Higdon plan, and the problem with running the 20 miler is you are so damn tired that the runs following that run tend to be pretty rough because your body is recovering from all that time on your feet.

Now, I understand the mental aspect of it, but the truth is you are coming into this with an incredible mileage base. If it was me, I would build up and run a 20 miler at an easy pace while you are in your base building. Get the mental block out of the way and jump into Hanson plan ready to rock.

Can't remember if you have picked a race yet, but start there and work your way backwards. And see if you can do a 20 mile easy run a month in advance of starting your training plan. Just a thought.

But I'm a huge believer in Hanson vs Higdon.

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12 minutes ago, ChiefD said:

Because the Hanson plan is designed to train you for the last 10, not the first 16.

The cumulative fatigue training is a powerful thing. I have done both plans - my first two marathons I did the Higdon plan, and the problem with running the 20 miler is you are so damn tired that the runs following that run tend to be pretty rough because your body is recovering from all that time on your feet.

Now, I understand the mental aspect of it, but the truth is you are coming into this with an incredible mileage base. If it was me, I would build up and run a 20 miler at an easy pace while you are in your base building. Get the mental block out of the way and jump into Hanson plan ready to rock.

Can't remember if you have picked a race yet, but start there and work your way backwards. And see if you can do a 20 mile easy run a month in advance of starting your training plan. Just a thought.

But I'm a huge believer in Hanson vs Higdon.

Agree with doing the 20 miler before the plan.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, gianmarco said:

 

Doing the training is "easy".  It's time consuming.

Revisit this statement mid June early July. Nothing easy about training for a summer marathon. You’re still my guy.

Edited by JShare87
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3 hours ago, ChiefD said:

But I'm a huge believer in Hanson vs Higdon.

I'd prefer Pfitz to either of them, but he's a bit intense for a rookie.  That said, I think it's ridiculous to expect to do well in your first marathon without ever having been on your feet that long in training.  Hell, I've finished 36 marathons, so I'm intimately familiar with how it feels to run that last 10K, and I'd still never do a cycle without at least one 20-miler.

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Posted (edited)

I'm a big Hanson's proponent....and probably the Hanson's poster boy in this thread.

 

My thoughts.....

 

1. Its a challenging program and I honestly don't know if I would recommend it to a first timer.  However, if you want to do it, that's cool.  I'd recommend the beginner plan.  I know it sounds wimpy, but from what I've heard, its pretty intense on its own.  (Admittedly, I've always done the advanced, so I'm just reading what I read online.)

2. The key to Hanson's is to run your easy runs super easy.  Do not push the pace on those or you will get injured and bury your chances on the harder days.

3. Definitely read the book.  Very interesting stuff and explains their entire rationale.

4. I'd recommend you join the FB group as well.  Its titled "LHR Running Community"

5. The 16 mile run, I can understand is questionable.  I believe in the program, but have always extended that 16 mile run out to 20.  They will have prescribed paces for those 16 miles.  I recommend you add 2 slow warmup miles and 2 slow cool down miles to the 16 miles.  When I say slow, I usually do the 16 miles at 7:30ish pace....I'd do the WU and CD miles at 9 min pace. 

6.  If you ran 13.1 at 7:42 pace, I think you should aim for 3:35 to 3:40 marathon.  3:30 seems VERY aggressive for your first marathon.  Unless your half marathon was run in a 80 degree heatwave.....up a mountain.

7. In terms of starting slow, there is validity to it.  My last marathon, I ran a 7:20/mile average pace.  My first two miles of that marathon were 8:02 and 7:45.  The marathon is a complete mind f**k.  However, if you can just start out slow and let your body ease into the beast, you will be pleasantly surprised at the benefits.  It will simply take incredible self control and a "Trust the training" mantra to run slowly the first couple miles.

8.  Hanson's starts out VERY slowly the first couple weeks.  If you are feeling good, I would NOT downgrade your mileage to their mileage.  Just stay with your current mileage until Hanson's catches up.  You will be on week 7 of Hanson's and think its no big deal.  Weeks 10 and on are when you really feel it.

9.  Be ready to be exhausted all the time in the back half of the training plan.  You will need to dial in your sleep and nutrition (outside of running).

10.  The marathon is a beast.  No matter what plan you do, you are in uncharted waters in your first race.  Do your best to prepare, trust your training and get to that finish line....even if you have to walk or crawl.

 

Good luck.  I'm starting to prep to use Hanson's for Monumental this fall.  I think I start around July 4.  From now until then, I'll just be base building.

 

 

 

 

Edited by SteelCurtain
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My two cents.

I used Higdon for my first marathon (Houston) and Hanson's for my second (Calgary), four months later.

Luke Humphrey Running (LHR) built me a custom training plan for my second marathon.  I never skipped a run, never cut one short, and never ran below prescribed pace.  Normally, I made runs a little longer, ran on a few of my off days, and often ran a little faster.  

Given that I was following this "miracle" plan, customised for me, I expected that my second marathon would be night-and-day better than my first.  

It wasn't.  It was just as brutal.  I ran less-stupid on my second (slower from the beginning, better hydration/fueling) and it was pretty much just as grueling for the last 10K.  I achieved my goal of "no walking", but that was likely because of running less-stupid and being ready for what that last 10K was going to feel like in advance.

I cut a grand-total of 1.5 minutes off my time.  Granted, it was a warmer day, with more elevation change, and 3,300ft higher from sea level, blah blah blah.  But just 1.5 minutes.  

But I was a ~4hr marathoner, and if you're more in 3:30-territory, Hanson's could work for you.  

The problem with me, is that MP and easy pace for a 4hr marathoner are essentially the same in Hanson's.  Humphrey even admits this:

Quote

With that disclaimer out of the way, slower runners will have a harder time differentiating tempo runs from easy days, especially early on. What I have noticed is that the grey area for prescribing paces occurs about that 4 hour goal mark. This is where things get a little blurry. At this point, runners will sometimes be running their easy runs faster than what their goal marathon pace is. Why? For most folks, their general endurance is going to be their limiting factor. In essence, can they just cover the 26.2 miles and keep it together? So, I don’t necessarily worry about these folks as much because if I can just keep them healthy and putting consistent miles in, then they will run pretty well. THEN, we can start really laying out some goals for them.

(Link).

I found that I could knock-out 16 milers at MP and not suffer any real fatigue.  At 20 miles, I got a taste of that last 10K, but nothing like the pain cave I fell into on each race day.

So what does this all mean?  Who knows.  Just wanted to add my two cents, which aren't all that relevant, because you're light years ahead of where I was when I ran my first (two, and only) marathons.  

I still couldn't run 3:30 now, two years later.  So :shrug:.

 

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Posted (edited)

Poking a bit at the above.  I think a lot of the big leaps folks report with Hanson’s can coincide with a more serious effort in running to improve on a prior outcome or take on the distance for the first time. So the mileage and structure can really take chunks off times for some. You weren’t in this camp really with mileage and dedication from marathon 1 so your first result wasn’t as soft and many are IMO.

Paces can be tough for all runners to differentiate, particularly in early weeks.  And as xulf brought up, getting an MP from an estimate of shorter/older races is tough. 
So recalibrating is key and longer more recent race result will give a better MP estimate. 
Easy is +60-90 the MP, long is +40 speed is 10k ish and strength is MP -10.  

Lastly, you’re surely a far faster marathoner than you allow yourself to think.  Get healthy and figure out your path to ultra fulfillment and slide a road marathon in along the way, you’ll see we’re right (about your potential).  

Edited by bushdocda
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All of the plans and modifications of them work. Which one is best fit for you? That can only be figured out through trial and error. 

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21 hours ago, El Floppo said:
21 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

Your watch says you averaged 123 HR at 8:32 pace.  That doesn't seem right from the description you give even with effects of a cold.  Also, your HR didn't seem to go up much when going over the bridge either time like one might expect.  Are you wearing the watch tight?

:shrug: No idea about how well I'm wearing the watch. Feels snug, but not too...isn't slipping around on my wrist. I have the 45- maybe it's not as accurate?

I vaguely recall racing in the 140-60 range in my tri days wearing my Polar with chest strap, so 120-30s sounds about right for non SoS run. But like you said, it should be escalating on the climbs (I think it did, but not much), so maybe something's off. I'll wear it tighter tomorrow and see what happens.

Did the same route, played by ear on pace based on the cold/breathing. Felt better, so went and stayed at cruising pace and made sure to try to maintain it on the second bridge climb to check the HR (also made sure the watch was nice and snug). Pushed into the low 140s for that, so I think it's close to accurate.

Tues is my hill repeat day...hr tends to spike on that, so it will be a good further test. It'll settle in too over the coming weeks- am interested in seeing what it does on my normal/non-sick long weekend runs of 13-16.

Remind me...the HR should really play a part on my recovery days- right? Trying to keep it at a certain threshold of...?

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5 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

All of the plans and modifications of them work. Which one is best fit for you? That can only be figured out through trial and error. 

This. It's why Hanson's would even offer a "customized" plan. 

Knowing your strengths and weaknesses and also what your schedule allows is key. And going into the first one makes it difficult to get it all right.

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OK, I officially signed up for the Monumental Marathon and booked a room at the JW Marriott.  That's the right hotel, right?

I've been thinking a lot on how I want to train for this.  As you likely know, I haven't followed any type of a training schedule or plan in many years.  I think the last time was 2014.  I have my reasons for doing that and I've had success but I know there are things I'm doing (or not doing) that are suboptimal.

I think I should have more of a structure.  I see three options:

1. Create a plan myself.  

2.  Follow one of the popular plans.  Likely either going back to a Pfitzinger plan or try Hansons again.

3. Use @gruecd's coach.

I have to say that #3 is becoming more appealing to me the more I think about it.  In theory, having someone with experience coaching runners who would design a program specifically for me with my background/history, strengths/weaknesses and goals just seems to make the most sense.  

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34 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

Did the same route, played by ear on pace based on the cold/breathing. Felt better, so went and stayed at cruising pace and made sure to try to maintain it on the second bridge climb to check the HR (also made sure the watch was nice and snug). Pushed into the low 140s for that, so I think it's close to accurate.

Tues is my hill repeat day...hr tends to spike on that, so it will be a good further test. It'll settle in too over the coming weeks- am interested in seeing what it does on my normal/non-sick long weekend runs of 13-16.

Remind me...the HR should really play a part on my recovery days- right? Trying to keep it at a certain threshold of...?

Yes, that heart rate looks right.  Super, super low for your volume, I think.  I guess the next step is to try to estimate your max by a really, really hard effort.  

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51 minutes ago, El Floppo said:

Remind me...the HR should really play a part on my recovery days- right? Trying to keep it at a certain threshold of...?

Sure. Without using specific #s, recovery effort and corresponding HR should be considerably lower than runs that are longer or comprised of harder effort work.  You’ll get a sense of your effort and HR correlation with just a bit more data to be directionally accurate. Then you can advance to the next stage, #####ing about bad HR readings. 

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32 minutes ago, Juxtatarot said:

OK, I officially signed up for the Monumental Marathon and booked a room at the JW Marriott.  That's the right hotel, right?

I've been thinking a lot on how I want to train for this.  As you likely know, I haven't followed any type of a training schedule or plan in many years.  I think the last time was 2014.  I have my reasons for doing that and I've had success but I know there are things I'm doing (or not doing) that are suboptimal.

I think I should have more of a structure.  I see three options:

1. Create a plan myself.  

2.  Follow one of the popular plans.  Likely either going back to a Pfitzinger plan or try Hansons again.

3. Use @gruecd's coach.

I have to say that #3 is becoming more appealing to me the more I think about it.  In theory, having someone with experience coaching runners who would design a program specifically for me with my background/history, strengths/weaknesses and goals just seems to make the most sense.  

You already know what I think.

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1 hour ago, Juxtatarot said:

Yes, that heart rate looks right.  Super, super low for your volume, I think.  I guess the next step is to try to estimate your max by a really, really hard effort.  

Yep. Seemed to correlate well with effort and elevation. Another ####### in this thread with ridiculously low HR. 

As mentioned just below this post, you'll get a good feel as you get more data over the next few days/weeks. 

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Today felt like the next logical step in my journey back from injury. Longer run with controlled paces.  All went well and legs wanted to go faster so the last few miles I pushed a bit.

Glute barked a little at mile 13 range. My knee started to hurt but I think that’s just the result of doing a long run on old shoes.  Not worried about either at this stage.

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1 hour ago, Juxtatarot said:

OK, I officially signed up for the Monumental Marathon and booked a room at the JW Marriott.  That's the right hotel, right?

I've been thinking a lot on how I want to train for this.  As you likely know, I haven't followed any type of a training schedule or plan in many years.  I think the last time was 2014.  I have my reasons for doing that and I've had success but I know there are things I'm doing (or not doing) that are suboptimal.

I think I should have more of a structure.  I see three options:

1. Create a plan myself.  

2.  Follow one of the popular plans.  Likely either going back to a Pfitzinger plan or try Hansons again.

3. Use @gruecd's coach.

I have to say that #3 is becoming more appealing to me the more I think about it.  In theory, having someone with experience coaching runners who would design a program specifically for me with my background/history, strengths/weaknesses and goals just seems to make the most sense.  

It’s the right hotel.   Friday through Sunday?

 

 

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39 minutes ago, SteelCurtain said:

It’s the right hotel.   Friday through Sunday?

 

 

I'll stay Friday and Saturday night and drive back on Sunday morning.

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So much great information, you guys all rock :thumbup:

What I am getting from all this is that any plan I do can get me there if I put in the work.  But, no plan will prepare for that last 10k.  Because of that, I will probably lean a bit on the conservative side, because priority #1 is to finish the thing.

I was using Hanson to train for my HM last year, before COVID blew it up...so I am familiar with it.  I ordered the book and will give it a read.  With an October race date, I am planning to tinker around with some of the workouts from both Hanson and Higdon before the real training begins.

I think I am going to start with the Beginner Hanson plan and add 3 or 4 miles to the long runs.  Getting in some 20+ miles is something I mentally need to be prepared (as much as I can be).  I feel like an 8:30 pace is achievable, but I want to reach a bit higher since i should see improvement from the training.  I may start with an 8:10-8:15 goal and I will tweak all of the above as needed.

Here we go...

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1 minute ago, xulf said:

So much great information, you guys all rock :thumbup:

What I am getting from all this is that any plan I do can get me there if I put in the work.  But, no plan will prepare for that last 10k.  Because of that, I will probably lean a bit on the conservative side, because priority #1 is to finish the thing.

I was using Hanson to train for my HM last year, before COVID blew it up...so I am familiar with it.  I ordered the book and will give it a read.  With an October race date, I am planning to tinker around with some of the workouts from both Hanson and Higdon before the real training begins.

I think I am going to start with the Beginner Hanson plan and add 3 or 4 miles to the long runs.  Getting in some 20+ miles is something I mentally need to be prepared (as much as I can be).  I feel like an 8:30 pace is achievable, but I want to reach a bit higher since i should see improvement from the training.  I may start with an 8:10-8:15 goal and I will tweak all of the above as needed.

Here we go...

👍

I think 8:15 is a great starting goal and you can adjust from there. 

Like @ChiefDmentioned, try to get a 20 mile run done before you start your training block. 

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5 minutes ago, xulf said:

So much great information, you guys all rock :thumbup:

What I am getting from all this is that any plan I do can get me there if I put in the work.  But, no plan will prepare for that last 10k.  Because of that, I will probably lean a bit on the conservative side, because priority #1 is to finish the thing.

I was using Hanson to train for my HM last year, before COVID blew it up...so I am familiar with it.  I ordered the book and will give it a read.  With an October race date, I am planning to tinker around with some of the workouts from both Hanson and Higdon before the real training begins.

I think I am going to start with the Beginner Hanson plan and add 3 or 4 miles to the long runs.  Getting in some 20+ miles is something I mentally need to be prepared (as much as I can be).  I feel like an 8:30 pace is achievable, but I want to reach a bit higher since i should see improvement from the training.  I may start with an 8:10-8:15 goal and I will tweak all of the above as needed.

Here we go...

That "last 10K" is a flexible barrier.  I think they are talking about "the wall".  I've had a couple marathons that I've made it to 24 or 25 before feeling so terrible but other times it's happened in the late teens.  And, of course, the earlier it happens the worse it is.  Ideally you want to be able to make it all the way through without that feeling although I suspect that's very, very rare for a first time marathoner.  

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48 minutes ago, gianmarco said:

👍

I think 8:15 is a great starting goal and you can adjust from there. 

Like @ChiefDmentioned, try to get a 20 mile run done before you start your training block. 

This subject came up recently and I just want to reiterate how much I love this idea. The problem with the 20's amidst the training block is the potential recovery time on the other side before you feel like your legs are back under you again. This issue is mitigated doing it before you even get started and given the base you've built it won't be a shock to the system building to one by the end of the month.

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4 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

Yes, that heart rate looks right.  Super, super low for your volume, I think.  I guess the next step is to try to estimate your max by a really, really hard effort.  

That sounds terrible.

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5 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

That "last 10K" is a flexible barrier.  I think they are talking about "the wall".  I've had a couple marathons that I've made it to 24 or 25 before feeling so terrible but other times it's happened in the late teens.  And, of course, the earlier it happens the worse it is.  Ideally you want to be able to make it all the way through without that feeling although I suspect that's very, very rare for a first time marathoner.  

Agreed.  This gets to an aspect we haven't fully addressed, but of course is near and dear to my heart ...and that's HR.  Through the training process, a lot of data is collected on HR.  So come marathon-time, you can use HR data as a control mechanism.  If the HR gets too high, too early ...prepare to hit the wall later on.  As I've stated (too many times), I'll run longer races by HR more than predetermined pace.  I generally know how HR correlates to pace, but on any given day, ya just don't know what cards you've been dealt.  But HR becomes a regulator and reality check.

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5 hours ago, MAC_32 said:

This subject came up recently and I just want to reiterate how much I love this idea. The problem with the 20's amidst the training block is the potential recovery time on the other side before you feel like your legs are back under you again. This issue is mitigated doing it before you even get started and given the base you've built it won't be a shock to the system building to one by the end of the month.

I've been considering this idea for my marathon training ...push the bigger miles and the long runs early on, and then worry less about quantity and more about quality (SOS) over the back half of the training (still maybe keep a rather long run every few weeks, but keep the focus on quality).

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22 hours ago, gruecd said:

I'd prefer Pfitz to either of them, but he's a bit intense for a rookie.  That said, I think it's ridiculous to expect to do well in your first marathon without ever having been on your feet that long in training.  Hell, I've finished 36 marathons, so I'm intimately familiar with how it feels to run that last 10K, and I'd still never do a cycle without at least one 20-miler.

I always go with Pfitz.

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Who has a half ironman in 3 weeks and is totally, completely, untrained? 

:hey:

 

:scared:

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6 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

That "last 10K" is a flexible barrier.  I think they are talking about "the wall".  I've had a couple marathons that I've made it to 24 or 25 before feeling so terrible but other times it's happened in the late teens.  And, of course, the earlier it happens the worse it is.  Ideally you want to be able to make it all the way through without that feeling although I suspect that's very, very rare for a first time marathoner.  

I always liked hitting the wall early. Then busting through it, then hitting another before getting run over by a steamroller. 

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8 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

OK, I officially signed up for the Monumental Marathon and booked a room at the JW Marriott.  That's the right hotel, right?

I've been thinking a lot on how I want to train for this.  As you likely know, I haven't followed any type of a training schedule or plan in many years.  I think the last time was 2014.  I have my reasons for doing that and I've had success but I know there are things I'm doing (or not doing) that are suboptimal.

I think I should have more of a structure.  I see three options:

1. Create a plan myself.  

2.  Follow one of the popular plans.  Likely either going back to a Pfitzinger plan or try Hansons again.

3. Use @gruecd's coach.

I have to say that #3 is becoming more appealing to me the more I think about it.  In theory, having someone with experience coaching runners who would design a program specifically for me with my background/history, strengths/weaknesses and goals just seems to make the most sense.  

If you've never used a coach before, we'd all love to see what you do with a coach.

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37 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Who has a half ironman in 3 weeks and is totally, completely, untrained? 

:hey:

 

:scared:

I remember the days thinking I could fake a 1/2 IM.

 

have fun with all of that.

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at mother's day brunch today, I got the worst hamstring cramp. had to push the chair out, straighten the leg and flex the toes up. 

I used to get cramps all the time as a kid- obviously under-hydrated. considering I didn't push things this weekend at all, I assume it was a hydration issue this weekend as well... which kinda makes sense. but I've never had it hurt as much after the cramp- usually the pain goes away when the cramp does.

old sucks.

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1 hour ago, El Floppo said:

I remember the days thinking I could fake a 1/2 IM.

 

have fun with all of that.

Yep.

No doubt in my mind I'm gonna be hurting by mile 3 on the run, if not the bike. 

Otoh, I've had no motivation or time really to do it right. 🤷🏾‍♂️

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1 hour ago, -OZ- said:

Yep.

No doubt in my mind I'm gonna be hurting by mile 3 on the run, if not the bike. 

Otoh, I've had no motivation or time really to do it right. 🤷🏾‍♂️

Play to your strengths.  If (when) you struggle, just drop to the ground and knock out some push-ups like a boss.

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Posted (edited)

Question mostly for @gianmarco, but all are welcome!

The two times I've been to a "doctor" (butt, calf), I have actually seen a PA.  I would prefer an actual doctor, but maybe I'm just being a snob.  PA seems fine, although I have no way to know if he knows what he's doing.  Except for the fact that he works at a fairly large and reputable sports medicine clinic.

When I got an xray for my calf issue, it didn't come back with anything conclusive.  Doc (PA) said that a stress fracture doesn't always show, and irrespective of that, the treatment he was recommending was the same anyway:  rest.

All fine with me, except a stress fracture has a much longer rest window than the other possibilities, and I want to get running again.  The leg feels (mostly) fine right now.  Only a little random pain from time to time.  So I was thinking of getting an MRI just to rule-out the stress fracture, and thus feel OK about getting back to running and not doing any serious damage (hopefully).

But my wife asked me "did an actual radiologist look at the xray?"

Me:  :confused:

Wife:  "You need to ask the PA if it was just his interpretation, or if he got someone qualified to look at it."

Me:  "If I ask the PA that, won't that imply that I don't trust him and his diagnosis?"

Wife:  "No, and who gives a #### if you hurt his feelings, you need to know before paying for an MRI."

Me:  "I hate conflict!"

WWGD?

 

Edited by Zasada
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2 minutes ago, Zasada said:

Question mostly for @gianmarco.

The two times I've been to a "doctor" (butt, calf), I have actually seen a PA.  I would prefer an actual doctor, but maybe I'm just being a snob.  PA seems fine, although I have no way to know if he knows what he's doing.  Except for the fact that he works at a fairly large and reputable sports medicine clinic.

When I got an xray for my calf issue, it didn't come back with anything conclusive.  Doc (PA) said that a stress fracture doesn't always show, and irrespective of that, the treatment he was recommending was the same anyway:  rest.

All fine with me, except a stress fracture has a much longer rest window than the other possibilities, and I want to get running again.  The leg feels (mostly) fine right now.  Only a little random pain from time to time.  So I was thinking of getting an MRI just to rule-out the stress fracture, and thus feel OK about getting back to running and not doing any serious damage (hopefully).

But my wife asked me "did an actual radiologist look at the xray?"

Me:  :confused:

Wife:  "You need to ask the PA if it was just his interpretation, or if he got someone qualified to look at it."

Me:  "If I ask the PA that, won't that imply that I don't trust him and his diagnosis?"

Wife:  "No, and who gives a #### if you hurt his feelings, you need to know before paying for an MRI."

Me:  "I hate conflict!"

WWGD?

 

So, radiology services all have radiologists that look at all studies. The only way it wasn't is if your orthopedic center has their own equipment that is run by them which is almost assuredly not the case. I'm sure your radiologist bill is forthcoming :)

Also, your PA should still have oversight by the attending orthopedic physician, but how much I couldn't say. 

All that said, you aren't hurting anyone's feelings by calling and asking. I'd say that's better than a wife who has doubts. 

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22 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

I think I should have more of a structure.  I see three options:

1. Create a plan myself.  

2.  Follow one of the popular plans.  Likely either going back to a Pfitzinger plan or try Hansons again.

3. Use @gruecd's coach.

These are all good options, I am interested in hearing how you plan on approaching the time period between now and the start of official marathon training (July 5 for a 18 week or 8/16 for 12 a week plan).  Considering you are on fire right now, when do you plan on backing off a bit before the marathon buildup?  

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