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California will be out of water in one year (1 Viewer)

I have always had this dream of a transcontinental pipeline.

A pipe that goes from areas of high water fall and more so prone to flooding.

When areas are expecting potential flooding rains, they can drain their reservoirs out to areas of need (California in this case) and it's a win/win

I may have to write this puppy up and start pitching it to the government

 
As expensive as say desalination is, Israel is producing desalinated water at almost 50 cents per cubic meter (264 gallons). That's a little more than what the average California household uses (360 gallons).

About $1 a day per household is what we're are talking for desalinated water.

 
I have always had this dream of a transcontinental pipeline.

A pipe that goes from areas of high water fall and more so prone to flooding.

When areas are expecting potential flooding rains, they can drain their reservoirs out to areas of need (California in this case) and it's a win/win

I may have to write this puppy up and start pitching it to the government
Eventually water distribution pipelines will be more important than oil pipelines.
:shrug:
Pushing water several thousand miles, from say Minnesota to California, and having to raise that massive weight over two mountain ranges where the water will tend to freeze 7 months out of the year would seem a costly effort even were the pipeline magically in place without any lawsuits or tariffs, and even were the water supplied for free.

I think it far more likely, if this route were to be pursued at all, that the pipeline would stop at the front range of the Rockies, and that front range water users would, in a trade, release their water rights on Colorado's west slope to west slope and downstream users. I could also, potentially, envision a pipeline running south out of Washington and Oregon as that would avoid the need to push it over the high Sierras.

The rise and fall of the Roman empire may be argued to have coincided with their aqua ducts. The same may be true for California. Exceeding the carrying capacity of the environment is something man has been able to do temporarily, but perhaps not so long term.

 
The rise and fall of the Roman empire may be argued to have coincided with their aqua ducts. The same may be true for California. Exceeding the carrying capacity of the environment is something man has been able to do temporarily, but perhaps not so long term.
That is true, unfortunate they didn't have desalination technology.

 
This is a duplicate thread, so I'm reposting Murray Rothbard's essay on this topic . . . from nearly 40 years ago!

The Water "Shortage"

By Murray N. Rothbard

This first appeared in The Libertarian Forum, Volume X, NO.6, June, 1977

As everyone knows, the West, and especially northern California, has been suffering from a year-long drought, leading numerous statists and busybodies to leap in to control, ration, and ordain. The water “shortage” may not be exactly blamed on the private sector, but it is there, supposedly, and surely government must leap in to combat it—not, of course, by creating more water, but by mucking up the distribution of the greater scarcity.

The first thing to be said about this is that on the free market, regardless of the stringency of supply, there is never any “shortage”, that is, there is never a condition where a purchaser cannot find supplies available at the market price. On the free market, there is always enough supply available to satisfy demand. The clearing mechanism is fluctuations in price. If, for example, there is an orange blight, and the supply of oranges declines, there is then an increasing scarcity of oranges, and the scarcity, is “rationed” voluntarily to the purchasers by the uncoerced rise in price, a rise sufficient to equalize supply and demand. If, on the other hand, there is an improvement in the orange crop, the supply increases, oranges are relatively less scarce, and the price of oranges falls consumers are induced to purchase the increased supply.

Note that all goods and services are scarce, and the progress of the economy consists in rendering them relatively less scarce, so that their prices decline. Of course, some goods can never increase in supply. The supply of Rembrandts, for example, is exceedingly scarce, and can never be increased—barring the arrival of a Perfect Forger. The price of Rembrandts is high, of course, but no one has ever complained about a “Rembrandt shortage.” They have not, because the price of Rembrandts is allowed to fluctuate freely without interference from the iron hand of government. But suppose that the government, in its wisdom, should one day proclaim that no Rembrandts can be sold for less than $1000—severe maximum price control on the paintings. We can rest assured that, if the decree were taken seriously at all, a severe Rembrandt shortage would promptly develop, accompanied by black markets, bribery, and all the rest of the paraphernalia of price control.

If the water industry were free and competitive, the response to a drought would be very simple: water would rise in price. There would be griping about the increase in water prices, no doubt, but there would be no “shortage”, and no need or call for the usual baggage of patriotic hoopla, calls for conservation, altruistic pleas for sacrifice to the common good, and all the rest. But, of course, the water industry is scarcely free; on the contrary, water is almost everywhere in the U.S. the product and service of a governmental monopoly.

When the drought hit northern California, raising the price of water to the full extent would have been unthinkable; accusations would have been hurled of oppressing the poor, of selfishness, and all the rest. The result has been a crazy-quilt patchwork of compulsory water rationing, accompanied by a rash of patrioteering ecological exhortation: “Conserve! Conserve! Don’t water your lawns! Shower with a friend! Don’t flush the toilet!”

Well, the amusing aspect of all this is that these imbecile exhortations were as manna from heaven to the wealthy liberal elitist ecofreak population of the San Francisco Bay Area. The California water authorities were hoping and shooting for a decline of about 25% in 1977 water consumption as compared to 1976. But, lo and behold, in late June, the figures rolled in and it turned out that Bay Area communities had responded by voluntarily cutting their water consumption by 40-50%.

The “morality” of the Bay Area masses had exceeded everyone’s expectations. But what was the reaction to this onrush of patriotic altruism and self-sacrifice? Oddly enough, it was mixed and ambivalent—thereby pointing up in a most amusing way some of the inner contradictions of statism. For suddenly, many of the local governmental water districts, including San Francisco’s, realized that dammit! they were losing revenue! Now, water shortage is all well and good, but there is nothing more important to a bureaucrat and his organization than their income. And so the local California water districts began to scream: “No, no, you fools, you’ve ‘over-conserved.’” (To a veteran anti-ecologist such as myself, the coining of the new term “over-conserving” was music to my ears.) The water districts began to shout that people have conserved too much, and that they should spend more, for which they were sternly chastised by the state water authorities, who accused the municipal groups of “sabotaging” the water conservation program.

Meanwhile, other local ecologists and statists got into the act. They groused that the over-conservation had induced people not to water their lawns, which led to the “visual pollution” “unsightly” lawns, and also caused the dried leaves to become fire hazards, which is apparently another ecological no-no.

I can see it now: a debate within the wealthy liberal ecofreak community: Mr. A.: “Dammit, you’ve over-conserved water; your lawns are visual pollutants, and your dry leaves are endangering the environment through fire.” Mr. B.: “You’re a blankety-blank no-good sellout water waster. You guys have been urging me for years to conserve, and now I’m doing it and all I get is hassle.”

The culminating irony has been the reaction of the local water districts to the “threat” of “over-conservation” of water and the consequent loss of revenue to the governmental water districts. The response of the Bay Area districts was: “Sorry folks, we have to raise the price of water in order to maintain the beloved revenue of the water district (us.)” So, “over” conservation has led to an increase in the price of water. It is intriguing that raising the price of water in order to ration increased scarcity is universally considered to be reactionary, selfish, and Neanderthal, while raising the price of water in order to keep governmental water district revenues at their former level is considered perfectly legitimate, and barely worth commenting on. And so, the water price goes up anyway, though for the wrong reason and of course not in order to clear the market.

The most amusing aspect of this California water caper was the argument of a water district apologist on San Francisco television:

Q. But wouldn’t the poor be hurt by the water district raising its water prices?

A. No, for since everyone has cut their consumption of water, the total water bill of each poor person will not increase.

In short, the poor are not being hurt by the higher price because, being forced to cut their consumption, their total bill has not increased. Thus, a price rise by aprivate firm is always selfish and oppressive of poor people; but when a monopoly governmental agency increases its price, the poor do not suffer at all, since if they cut their purchases sufficiently in response to the higher price, their total dollar payments will not increase. It is this sort of nonsense that our statists and busybodies are now being reduced to.

Meanwhile, how is “libertarian” Milton Friedman, now resident in the San Francisco area, taking to the water crisis? Is he advocating privatization, free competition among private water companies? Is he at least advocating the setting of a market-clearing price by the government water company? The answer to all of these is, remarkably, no. In his Newsweek column, Friedman favored keeping government water rationing, but making it more efficient through a typically elaborate scheme for surcharges for consumption over a certain quota of water, to be financing rebates for consuming under the quota. Thus, once again Friedmanism descends to being an efficiency expert for statism.

 
I have always had this dream of a transcontinental pipeline.

A pipe that goes from areas of high water fall and more so prone to flooding.

When areas are expecting potential flooding rains, they can drain their reservoirs out to areas of need (California in this case) and it's a win/win

I may have to write this puppy up and start pitching it to the government
States won't give up their water rights that easily. The boundary between TN and GA was surveyed wrong way back when, it's about a mile south of where it should be. Been like that, literally, since right around the time TN became a state. Georgia really wants to push it north that 1 mile now. Why? To touch the Tennessee River and make a claim on it. TN has told them, in no uncertain terms, to go f$^k themselves. It's pending at the Supreme Court if I remember right. Georgia, Florida, and Alabama have fought for years over the water rights to the Chattahotchie and Flint River basins -- and they all have fresh water. No state will ever allow another to tap their water supply, and there isn't much that can be done about it.

 
They will have to build more desalination plants. The water from Lake Mead sets new all-time lows every month. That river is going to dry up if they keep going.

 
I saw a news story the other day about problems here in Minnesota with overuse of water, and that we're depleting our underground supply - which is where the vast majority of MN gets their water. So it's not just California who's dumb with their water usage. And don't forget about the fact that the Ogallala Aquifer is going to run dry at some point. Leaving a huge swath of farming country in the lurch having to rely solely on rain for their crops.

 
I saw a news story the other day about problems here in Minnesota with overuse of water, and that we're depleting our underground supply - which is where the vast majority of MN gets their water. So it's not just California who's dumb with their water usage. And don't forget about the fact that the Ogallala Aquifer is going to run dry at some point. Leaving a huge swath of farming country in the lurch having to rely solely on rain for their crops.
We could drill a big hole and funnel the Mississippi into it. 2 problems solved. No more flooding in the Mississippi and aquifer stays full....of gross water.

 
I saw a news story the other day about problems here in Minnesota with overuse of water, and that we're depleting our underground supply - which is where the vast majority of MN gets their water. So it's not just California who's dumb with their water usage. And don't forget about the fact that the Ogallala Aquifer is going to run dry at some point. Leaving a huge swath of farming country in the lurch having to rely solely on rain for their crops.
It's no different here in Utah. The lakes and reservoirs are at all-time lows and, combined with the lack of snow this winter, I'm pretty sure we're planning on drinking sand this summer.

But hey, everyone's got some pretty sweet looking bright green lawns out here in the middle of the desert!

 
I thought California was next to a big body of water called an ocean?
What's more important? Desalination plants for fresh water or the ability to rapidly move people from Fresno to Merced? These are the tough decisions California has had to make.
What's more important is California's lack of safety improvements to the levees in the Delta. Due to the potential for saltwater migration, one earthquake could dramatically deplete the drinking water supply for years. Even more reason to explore desalination.

 
I saw a news story the other day about problems here in Minnesota with overuse of water, and that we're depleting our underground supply - which is where the vast majority of MN gets their water. So it's not just California who's dumb with their water usage. And don't forget about the fact that the Ogallala Aquifer is going to run dry at some point. Leaving a huge swath of farming country in the lurch having to rely solely on rain for their crops.
It's no different here in Utah. The lakes and reservoirs are at all-time lows and, combined with the lack of snow this winter, I'm pretty sure we're planning on drinking sand this summer.

But hey, everyone's got some pretty sweet looking bright green lawns out here in the middle of the desert!
Oregon and Washington's governors have declared drought emergencies.

I was at USC's medical campus east of downtown LA last week. The friend/patient I was visiting asked me to run across the street for some Popeye's chicken. So I did. There was this perfectly normal looking woman in there chanting/praying softly. It caught my attention so I stared a little. She looked me in the eyes and said, "Don't laugh at me you sonofa#####. I'm making it rain."

I replied, "Ooops, sorry, didn't know you were crazy."

 
I thought California was next to a big body of water called an ocean?
What's more important? Desalination plants for fresh water or the ability to rapidly move people from Fresno to Merced? These are the tough decisions California has had to make.
What's more important is California's lack of safety improvements to the levees in the Delta. Due to the potential for saltwater migration, one earthquake could dramatically deplete the drinking water supply for years. Even more reason to explore desalination.
An earthquake big enough to flood Sacramento wouldn't just deplete the drinking water supply. Over half of the state's entire water supply goes through there. It would annihilate California's entire economy.
 
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I thought California was next to a big body of water called an ocean?
What's more important? Desalination plants for fresh water or the ability to rapidly move people from Fresno to Merced? These are the tough decisions California has had to make.
What's more important is California's lack of safety improvements to the levees in the Delta. Due to the potential for saltwater migration, one earthquake could dramatically deplete the drinking water supply for years. Even more reason to explore desalination.
No doubt desalination is the answer. I'm not so sure about the giant reverse osmosis project in San Diego and think the solar stuff I linked to above or more ambitious solar projects like the Saudi's are in order. Maybe we could counter rising sea levels. Win win.

I'm pretty liberal compared to most red staters but our legislature is a big problem. They'll starve millions to save a smelt. Can't imagine the environmental impact of a major conversion to desalination, but there would be an absurd fight to stop it.

 
I saw a news story the other day about problems here in Minnesota with overuse of water, and that we're depleting our underground supply - which is where the vast majority of MN gets their water. So it's not just California who's dumb with their water usage. And don't forget about the fact that the Ogallala Aquifer is going to run dry at some point. Leaving a huge swath of farming country in the lurch having to rely solely on rain for their crops.
We could drill a big hole and funnel the Mississippi into it. 2 problems solved. No more flooding in the Mississippi and aquifer stays full....of gross water.
Meanwhile the natural aquifers further down under the MS River here, the Memphis Sands Aquifer aka Sparta Aquifer provide the "sweetest water in the world" at a cost of $15 per 10,000 gallons delivered to residential customers :coffee:

 
Naive question of the day. What is California doing "wrong"? Is it just a poor location or are they actively doing this to themselves? I'm sure every place in the US has people being wasteful. What's different here?
not a lot of rain+producing fruits and vegetables in large quantities for consumption elsewhere

 
That's it, lets just chop off that infected state.
Don't worry. An earthquake is going to separate them soon.
We take about a third of your food supply with us so maybe this will help you lardbutts out there shape up... you know, like us Californians..
Considering that CO is the least obese state and they're still at 21%, I don't think any state has anything to be proud of.

 
Lets say you do the desal thing. How many gallons would it take to stop pulling anything out of Mead? Anyone have that figure?

 
That's it, lets just chop off that infected state.
Don't worry. An earthquake is going to separate them soon.
We take about a third of your food supply with us so maybe this will help you lardbutts out there shape up... you know, like us Californians..
Considering that CO is the least obese state and they're still at 21%, I don't think any state has anything to be proud of.
But everyone is catching the munchies here in CO. We will not hold that title for long.

 
Lets say you do the desal thing. How many gallons would it take to stop pulling anything out of Mead? Anyone have that figure?
California's allotment is 4.4 million acre feet. That services roughly half of southern california. We have banked water of another 400k annually but that's being tapped by a quarter to half the past few years.

 

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