Christine Michael Volume 3: Inevitable Greatness Soon Achieved

[EBF 1,924]

Not really the game I was hoping for, but not a terrible performance either. If you swapped his stat line with Rawls's, this thread would be full of trolls saying how bad he is and that he's finished, etc, etc. There was probably more good than bad from him today though. What's encouraging for me is that he ran well, converted a critical 4th-and-1 in the fourth quarter, and was in for all the snaps in the final drive with the game on the line. On the other hand, he had a few semi bone-headed moments as well, missing a possible reception by not paying attention and then leaving his feet awkwardly on his red zone attempt.

[JuniorNB 7,258]

That last goal line carry could have totally changed how his performance was viewed. Definitely disappointing from a fantasy perspective, although I thought he ran well. 

[Milkman 2,348]

1 minute ago, JuniorNB said:

That last goal line carry could have totally changed how his performance was viewed. Definitely disappointing from a fantasy perspective, although I thought he ran well. 

Yeah can't sell him now.

[SaintsInDome2006 47,463]

Baahsahaha! Always the same.

Ok I'm loaded but true.

[SaintsInDome2006 47,463]

Let me remind you guys of something - THIS is a troll thread because CM always disappoints.

Thank you.

[Todem 4,707]

5 minutes ago, JuniorNB said:

That last goal line carry could have totally changed how his performance was viewed. Definitely disappointing from a fantasy perspective, although I thought he ran well. 

He ran well. But I think Rawls is their lead dog going forward from here. Like he should be. 

[Milkman 2,348]

2 minutes ago, Todem said:

He ran well. But I think Rawls is their lead dog going forward from here. Like he should be. 

I agree but not if Rawls keeps getting out played.......PC will play the guy playing better. Today that was CM. He still hasn't pushed Rawls out of the way but he is going to keep getting carries to show if he's better or not.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Milkman

[FGITLOTR 343]

38 minutes ago, ponchsox said:

Looks like a full blown RBBC sapping each other's value 

Not good news for either guy, but I feel much better as a Michael owner, considering how cheap was 

[BigSteelThrill 5,359]

PC stated this was a preseason game for Rawls. Maybe next week also.

Likely has something to do with football shape and to fully trust his ankle.

 

[Crystalsteam99 66]

If I'm Carrol I look at Cmike 15-66 with a 4.4 ypc compared to Rawls with a 12-32 with a 2.7 ypc and think to myself. Who deserves more touches next week.I think it's a no brainer! Rawls is supposedly back to being in pretty good shape.So if after next week or 2,if Cmike has puts up a much better ypc as he did Today,I don't see Carroll switching back to Rawls just because he was good last year before the ankle injury.It's what happens on the field now that counts,and Rawls looked horrible Today IMO.RB's loose their starting job all the time.Why is this any different,b/c Cmike fooled us all in the past. He's a later bloomer...If someone tried trading me Rawls for Cmike, I would turn it down. But that's just me,bc I truly believe Cmike looks like a different runner than he was a year ago.I think Carrol knows now that this is the player they were hoping for when they drafted him a couple years ago..But realistically I see the backfield as a timeshare prob 60/40 spilt...just like whats happening in Atlanta with Coleman and Freeman...

[icehouse 32]

I think he ran well.  He should at least be on rosters, even if it's a RBBC. 

[Billy Ball Thorton 45]

17 hours ago, Todem said:

He ran well. But I think Rawls is their lead dog going forward from here. Like he should be. 

I guess we watched different games. Rawls lost the "lead dog" status today. Michael is clearly the better back.  When game counted most it was Michael out there, not Rawls.  It might take a couple more weeks of Michael out producing Rawls before we see him get the lions share. Until then stat line most likely looks like it did today.

[Todem 4,707]

13 minutes ago, Billy Ball Thorton said:

I guess we watched different games. Rawls lost the "lead dog" status today. Michael is clearly the better back.  When game counted most it was Michael out there, not Rawls.  It might take a couple more weeks of Michael out producing Rawls before we see him get the lions share. Until then stat line most likely looks like it did today.

OK man. We shall see. And for the record. I don't own either. Purely unbiased opinion.

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Todem

[Frank Black 26]

So far this year, like last year, CMike continues to be one of the most polarizing players we've seen on our threads in the last few years.  I think we'll know a lot more in 2 or 3 weeks about how both RBs will be used.  

[Hooper31 1,166]

1 hour ago, Billy Ball Thorton said:

I guess we watched different games. Rawls lost the "lead dog" status today. Michael is clearly the better back.  When game counted most it was Michael out there, not Rawls.  It might take a couple more weeks of Michael out producing Rawls before we see him get the lions share. Until then stat line most likely looks like it did today.

I don't own either, but I watched every snap of every Seattle game since 1981. I think I have a feel for what's going on with this team.

I'm telling you you're wrong. If Rawls is healthy he will lead the Seahawks in carries. Every indication from the coaches backs this up. Everything we're seeing backs this up. Further, I'm wondering if you "watched" the game. Did you see Michael fall asleep and have a pass hit him in the shoulder when Wilson was under pressure? Did you see Rawls finishing runs? Rawls is the man going forward. Michael will get carries, and I'm happy about that. 

Chew on this: 

Michael was in game for 52 snaps. Got 15 carries and 2 receptions.
Rawls was in game for 22 snaps. Got 12 carries and 3 receptions. 

Michael got 2 more touches in 30 more snaps. Rawls is the man in Seattle when fully healthy. Coach Pete said this last week that this game was sort of like preseason week 2 for Rawls. 

[Just Win Baby 2,588]

1 hour ago, Hooper31 said:

I don't own either, but I watched every snap of every Seattle game since 1981. I think I have a feel for what's going on with this team.

I'm telling you you're wrong. If Rawls is healthy he will lead the Seahawks in carries. Every indication from the coaches backs this up. Everything we're seeing backs this up. Further, I'm wondering if you "watched" the game. Did you see Michael fall asleep and have a pass hit him in the shoulder when Wilson was under pressure? Did you see Rawls finishing runs? Rawls is the man going forward. Michael will get carries, and I'm happy about that. 

Chew on this: 

Michael was in game for 52 snaps. Got 15 carries and 2 receptions.
Rawls was in game for 22 snaps. Got 12 carries and 3 receptions. 

Michael got 2 more touches in 30 more snaps. Rawls is the man in Seattle when fully healthy. Coach Pete said this last week that this game was sort of like preseason week 2 for Rawls. 

Agree 100%.

[EBF 1,924]

The fact that Michael was clearly "the man" at RB on the last drive punches some holes in that narrative.

On the other hand, it seems clear that forcing him the ball wasn't a priority for Seattle.

[The Man With No Name 1,057]

Started him this week. 

Gonna have highest score in my  league.

Win Win

[Tool 1,588]

48 minutes ago, EBF said:

The fact that Michael was clearly "the man" at RB on the last drive punches some holes in that narrative.

On the other hand, it seems clear that forcing him the ball wasn't a priority for Seattle.

Why?

[biju 298]

I disagree (respectfully) with the idea that Rawls is automatically the lead back.  The numbers you left our Hoop were the actual yardage.  I realize the touches do mean something here, but I think the only thing they really mean to me is that they are using week 1 (and probably week 2) to get Rawls additional work.  He ran hard but that didn't translate into actual production.  Yes, Michael had a few bad plays but overall I'm not going to moan about his production.  The Rawls stuff looked forced as evident by having 12 touches in 22 snaps.

We're going to need to rely even more on the running game with Russell being banged up.  I'm hoping we have a heavy dose of Michael and Rawls instead of the 43 passes we saw from Wilson last Sunday.  I think this is going to be a nightmare game for us, as is all Rams games.

And to be perfectly clear, I really hope I'm wrong and that Rawls is all that everyone thinks he is.  I just can't assume that last year's stats will be automatic since Rawls didn't start the season.  There's something to coming in fresh after everyone else is worn down.  Again, I hope I'm wrong.

[Rove! 2,095]

Rawls is the man.  I don't doubt it.  The question is, how much he is recovered from that injury and can he still be as productive as we have seen.  If he falters or re-aggravates or loses a step, the situation could evolve.

[Chaka 6,241]

20 hours ago, Hooper31 said:

Chew on this: 

Michael was in game for 52 snaps. Got 15 carries and 2 receptions.
Rawls was in game for 22 snaps. Got 12 carries and 3 receptions. 

Michael got 2 more touches in 30 more snaps. Rawls is the man in Seattle when fully healthy. Coach Pete said this last week that this game was sort of like preseason week 2 for Rawls. 

I think it's way too early to tell how this is going to shake out, particularly because Rawls missed almost the entire offseason program.  It is very easy to envision Rawls carving out a bigger role as he rounds into shape (no guys getting into football shape doesn't happen in the last two weeks of TC after missing the rest of the offseason program).

However I think you are making a spurious conclusion about what you asked us to chew on.  Seems to me it means that the Seahawks showed a surprising amount of faith in Michael to act as the pass protector/outlet on many, most, of those extra snaps.  Personally I view it as a positive indicator for Michael and how the team views him.

[Hooper31 1,166]

17 minutes ago, Chaka said:

However I think you are making a spurious conclusion about what you asked us to chew on.

 

I don't disagree. My opinion and what the stats say are meaningless in comparison to the words and actions coach Pete. 

[Chaka 6,241]

Just now, Hooper31 said:

I don't disagree. My opinion and what the stats say are meaningless in comparison to the words and actions coach Pete. 

Haven't most of the words and actions coming out of Seattle this off-season, particularly since TC, been glowing in regards to Michael?  I rarely take comments from coaches with too much seriousness but the entire staff was positively gushing about Michael once training camp started.

[Just Win Baby 2,588]

16 minutes ago, Chaka said:

I think it's way too early to tell how this is going to shake out, particularly because Rawls missed almost the entire offseason program.  It is very easy to envision Rawls carving out a bigger role as he rounds into shape (no guys getting into football shape doesn't happen in the last two weeks of TC after missing the rest of the offseason program).

However I think you are making a spurious conclusion about what you asked us to chew on.  Seems to me it means that the Seahawks showed a surprising amount of faith in Michael to act as the pass protector/outlet on many, most, of those extra snaps.  Personally I view it as a positive indicator for Michael and how the team views him.

I don't see it this way. Who were they going to rely on for pass protection/outlet besides Michael, if Rawls isn't yet in "football shape"? Rookie RBs?

[JuniorNB 7,258]

As a Michael owner, I have been in the camp that the job is wide open that Carroll wasn't 100% married to the idea that Rawls had to be his starter. But that being said, I think that Michael needs to show that he is the better back and that the 'Hawks can't afford to keep him on the bench.  Although I thought he played well against Miami, I don't think that 71 yards on 17 touches is enough to convince anyone that he needs to be in there. I believe that Rawls was #1 on the depth chart going into the season and Michael is going to have to make a bigger statement than that if he intends to change that.

[Chaka 6,241]

1 hour ago, Just Win Baby said:

I don't see it this way. Who were they going to rely on for pass protection/outlet besides Michael, if Rawls isn't yet in "football shape"? Rookie RBs?

The argument is that Rawls touched the ball on a higher percentage of his snaps therefore they like him more.  Seems to me that pass protection requires less football shape and more football smarts.  So why didn't they use Rawls more in those situations?  Not necessarily because they don't trust him, it might even be because they want to ease him back so they have him for the long haul. But regardless of the why he was limited there it seems like an obvious statement that they do trust Michael.

Again, I absolutely see Rawls snap counts and touches increasing going forward but it isn't out of the realm of possibility to see Michael not only capping Rawls upside but maybe turning this into a legitimate timeshare where we don't know who will see more action from week to week.  All the reports going into this season were positively effusive about Michael and now we have some solid on field production to back that up.

[btemp 143]

While it's possible this turns into a timeshare, I don't expect it. That was more touches than I expected Rawls to get coming back from a serious injury, missed preseason, and an illness.

Carroll seems to like leaning on one guy.  And Rawls has been the better back in all phases. Christine Michael looked much IMPROVED from late last year and this preseason but I don't think he's looked as good as Rawls did last year.  And Rawls hasn't had to "regain that trust".  

[Ministry of Pain 5,425]

13 minutes ago, btemp said:

While it's possible this turns into a timeshare, I don't expect it. That was more touches than I expected Rawls to get coming back from a serious injury, missed preseason, and an illness.

Carroll seems to like leaning on one guy.  And Rawls has been the better back in all phases. Christine Michael looked much IMPROVED from late last year and this preseason but I don't think he's looked as good as Rawls did last year.  And Rawls hasn't had to "regain that trust".  

MOP's tea leaves fall in line with some of your thoughts in this post. 

-Rawls had at least 1 big game last season, he was doing to Lynch what Ware is doing to Charles in a way. Different but some similarities. Rawls though is young and I think he just isn't quite back 100% or in real football shape just yet.  I don't own him, no dog in the fight. 

-Michael was cut, signed, cut, signed, then back to Seattle after a Dallas team desperate for an injection last season got nothing. I like him but we still haven't seen that signature game where he can carry the load and make people forget about others in uniform, he doesn't really do that. 

It's an RBBC for sure right now, anyone who breaks a big gain or has a hot hand finding the holes will see more touches on a week to week basis but I feel like we are seeing the best Michael will give you, not the best that Rawls can give so I am thinking the ceiling on Rawls by Week 4-5 should be higher. I would trade 4 RAWLS and try to trade away Michael and that's exactly what a savvy owner in my league did this past week.

Good post, interesting thread, try and keep an open mind, I don't think I have a firm grip on this situation though. 

[Ministry of Pain 5,425]

LT-Okung...downgrade Seattle, upgrade for Denver, seems like a big piece went to another team and while I am sure you all have some great prospects coming along and you can point to a few things but IMO his absence is being felt so far. 

The pot'o'gold at the end of the rainbow might not be there, don't chase the situation is all I'm saying. Might be RBBC or even RB1/50-60% of the touches but still just get a so so return is all I'm saying. 

[biju 298]

14 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:

LT-Okung...downgrade Seattle, upgrade for Denver, seems like a big piece went to another team and while I am sure you all have some great prospects coming along and you can point to a few things but IMO his absence is being felt so far. 

The pot'o'gold at the end of the rainbow might not be there, don't chase the situation is all I'm saying. Might be RBBC or even RB1/50-60% of the touches but still just get a so so return is all I'm saying. 

Agreed, but I can all but guarantee Okung will get injured exactly when Denver needs him most.  The bigger issue for the line was Germain Ifedi going down three days before the game.  Things will get better when he's back in the lineup.  Not perfect, better.

[The Man With No Name 1,057]

43 minutes ago, Ministry of Pain said:   -Michael was cut, signed, cut, signed, then back to Seattle after a Dallas team desperate for an injection last season got nothing. I like him but we still haven't seen that signature game where he can carry the load Last season  at  Arizona  17-102, 6.0 ypc. And in the Playoff game at Minnesota had 21 carries for 70 yards. That's 2 games where he "carried the load". They won both games

Edited September 13, 2016 by The Man With No Name

[Ministry of Pain 5,425]

Just now, The Man With No Name said:

Last season  at  Arizona  17-102, 6.0 ypc. And in the Playoff game at Minnesota had 21 carries for 70 yards. They won both games

Good points, they were more towards the end of the season, I'm always a little nervous about stats in the last few weeks of the season when a lot of different players are earning snaps thru injuries and such. 

Still, MN and AZ are good teams, not sure 21/70 does much for me though. He isn't tearing it up to the point they have to put him on the field the way some backs push for playing time. 

Still a little more sizzle than steak for me. 

[bagger 3,362]

21 carries for 70 yards being C Mike's signature game is all you need to know.

[biju 298]

52 minutes ago, bagger said:

21 carries for 70 yards being C Mike's signature game is all you need to know.

I agree and I'm on board with this assessment.

Signed,

Chairman of the Board for people who can't look one line up.

[ex-ghost 651]

Prosise also got injured. He would have received a few of those snaps/carries. 

I think we did not see the full game plan due to his injury. 

[Just Win Baby 2,588]

40 minutes ago, ex-ghost said:

Prosise also got injured. He would have received a few of those snaps/carries. 

I think we did not see the full game plan due to his injury. 

Isn't Prosise always injured?

[ex-ghost 651]

1 hour ago, Just Win Baby said:

Isn't Prosise always injured?

It seems so.

[MNTom 46]

Per CBS, Thomas Rawls named starting RB for Week 2.

[tombonneau 985]

1 minute ago, MNTom said:

Per CBS, Thomas Rawls named starting RB for Week 2.

[Milkman 2,348]

I've been trying to trade him for two weeks. No takers. I knew this was coming......now he's just a handcuff. If he keeps out playing Rawls he'll eat into his workload but that's a lot to ask. 

[Bojang0301 2,246]

Good bye again old friend. I look forward to when your career is over so this thread only gets bumped when you're coaching your old high school team after years of on the field mediocrity.

[massraider 10,856]

For the sake of the thread, I hope Rawls turns an ankle week 2, they name Michaels starter week 3, and Prosise gets 40 carries week 4.  

[Gr00vus 11,829]

5 minutes ago, massraider said:

For the sake of the thread, I hope Rawls turns an ankle week 2, they name Michaels starter week 3, and Prosise gets 40 carries week 4.  

As a double Rawls owner, for the sake of my teams, I hope none of this happens.

[The Man With No Name 1,057]

It's not over

I'm probably going to start him again this week.

[iamkoza 506]

58 minutes ago, Milkman said:

I've been trying to trade him for two weeks. No takers. I knew this was coming......now he's just a handcuff. If he keeps out playing Rawls he'll eat into his workload but that's a lot to ask. 

a valuable handcuff worth rostering though.  seattle cut him last year in favor of Rawls, i'm not surprised Rawls is being named starter over him this year too.

[EBF 1,924]

Over? We're just getting started here people. Michael is a free agent after this season!

[DexterDew 69]

Heck, he's been released during the season before so he's a hold

[Tool 1,588]

4 minutes ago, DexterDew said:

Heck, he's been released during the season before so he's a hold

Twice!

[Statorama 2,883]

Buying low with confidence!