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****OFFICIAL 2021 OFF- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****


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No, they won't accept

It's a bit much to say the trade should be overturned. It's just a bunch of junk for a bunch of junk.

You mean it went down in a league you used to be in??  I’d go ful Vontae Davis on that league asap 

7 hours ago, Vandelay said:

If those things happen, I won't be looking to trade him.  If he's playing, he's in fantasy starting lineups.  Moss?  There's a very good chance he doesn't amount to anything, ever.  

We are talking about the best wide receiver of a generation.

Jerry Rice was the best receiver ever. Maybe your commish will add him to your league's free agency pool. 

That's a joke, BTW. I'm just saying that Brown WAS the best receiver of his generation but circumstances have, um, changed

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4 hours ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Jerry Rice was the best receiver ever. Maybe your commish will add him to your league's free agency pool. 

That's a joke, BTW. I'm just saying that Brown WAS the best receiver of his generation but circumstances have, um, changed

The only proven circumstance that has changed with regard to his ability is that he hasnt played.  He looked like the same old AB to me last year in the game with the Pats.  I dont think anyone expects peak AB numbers ever again, but its not hard to think he can be a WR2 for fantasy purposes and possibly more if and when he sees the field again.  There is no evidence his game has fallen off at last check.

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6 minutes ago, hispeedthinmint said:

Dynasty PPR

Team A gave DJ Moore, 2020 1.11 & 2020 4.11 rookie picks

Team B gave Michael Thomas

I would be pretty fired-up to get Thomas for that...Moore is a good one but Thomas is already elite...don't really see what the Owner giving away Thomas accomplishes here other then getting younger....since Thomas is only 27 that should not be a reason to make this deal.

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1 hour ago, Vandelay said:

The only proven circumstance that has changed with regard to his ability is that he hasnt played.  He looked like the same old AB to me last year in the game with the Pats.  I dont think anyone expects peak AB numbers ever again, but its not hard to think he can be a WR2 for fantasy purposes and possibly more if and when he sees the field again.  There is no evidence his game has fallen off at last check.

He is also suspended for half the season once he gets (if) signed.  He has very little value now and not much more if he gets signed

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1 hour ago, Boston said:

I would be pretty fired-up to get Thomas for that...Moore is a good one but Thomas is already elite...don't really see what the Owner giving away Thomas accomplishes here other then getting younger....since Thomas is only 27 that should not be a reason to make this deal.

rookie pick mania

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1 hour ago, Boston said:

I would be pretty fired-up to get Thomas for that...Moore is a good one but Thomas is already elite...don't really see what the Owner giving away Thomas accomplishes here other then getting younger....since Thomas is only 27 that should not be a reason to make this deal.

I can see where he's coming from. At age 22 Moore had 1175 receiving yards with Kyle Allen as his QB. This puts DJM in rare company. Michael Thomas was still at Ohio St at that age. The guy very well might be getting a much younger MT and a 1st to go with it.

Looking at the value, he received a 1.11 for going from a 1st round to a 2nd round start up pick. It's debateable and a lot of people always want to get the best player. Keeptradecut has this trade favoring the side getting MT only after adding a "value adjustment".

I would take Moore and the 1.11 but I'm a big fan of DJM.

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On 8/2/2020 at 12:08 PM, barackdhouse said:

24 team PPR TE premium 2 copies of each player 11 starters QRRWWTFFFDK

I gave 1.12 OTC

I got Unicorn, Damien Harris, 2021 1st (playoff team)

I hold other late 1sts and early 2nds in this draft. Rebuilding. I took Dobbins at 1.06 but neither of Akers or Swift made it to 1.12 so I shipped it. 

Then today I took that 2021 1st I acquired and flipped it for Kirk and the 2.20, where I took Hurst.

In total that is me giving up the 1.12 (Jeudy) for Unicorn, Kirk, Harris, and Hurst. 

ETA Lamb was originally on the board at 1.12 as well

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1 hour ago, cloppbeast said:

I can see where he's coming from. At age 22 Moore had 1175 receiving yards with Kyle Allen as his QB. This puts DJM in rare company. Michael Thomas was still at Ohio St at that age. The guy very well might be getting a much younger MT and a 1st to go with it.

Looking at the value, he received a 1.11 for going from a 1st round to a 2nd round start up pick. It's debateable and a lot of people always want to get the best player. Keeptradecut has this trade favoring the side getting MT only after adding a "value adjustment".

I would take Moore and the 1.11 but I'm a big fan of DJM.

Sometimes I think the age thing can be mis-played in Dynasty (meaning it can come at the expense of winning)...right now Thomas is 27 and Moore is 23...the question is do you think Moore will over-take Thomas during next 3 years or so?  If you think so the deal makes sense if you also hit on the #1 although I do think you should be getting more for Thomas right now, especially since that is not a high pick...if he doesn't overtake him in that period then all of a sudden Moore is closing in on the age Thomas is now so do you trade Moore shortly after that for another young piece?  I think sometimes Owners can cash out on a player and chase youth before they need to...right now Thomas is only 27 and playing at an elite level...personally, unless I am totally blown away with an offer I would rather ride him out for the next 2-3 years and try to win a title and at that point (i.e. when age is a legit concern) figure out how to get something for him...sure, you will get more now but that may not get you closer to a title. 

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1 minute ago, Mimo said:

12 Team PPR

Team A gets: Marquise Brown and Justin Jefferson

Team B gets: Deebo Samuel, Diontae Johnson and Jalen Hurd

So team B gets the best player and the most players. Also, Diontae has his own cult following, maybe there's some truth there. Team A must really like Jefferson.

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1 hour ago, Mimo said:

12 Team PPR

Team A gets: Marquise Brown and Justin Jefferson

Team B gets: Deebo Samuel, Diontae Johnson and Jalen Hurd

Don’t understand this at all.  If I owned Deebo (which I do) the only reason to flip him would be for immediate production.  You don’t get that from this deal.  Not to mention you give up the immediate production as well from Diontae.  This makes 0 sense to me.  Deebo side by a mile. 

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8 hours ago, Gally said:

He is also suspended for half the season once he gets (if) signed.  He has very little value now and not much more if he gets signed

 I'm pretty sure his suspension runs whether he is signed or not,  so he is free to play as of week 9.

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1 hour ago, Zyphros said:

Don’t understand this at all.  If I owned Deebo (which I do) the only reason to flip him would be for immediate production.  You don’t get that from this deal.  Not to mention you give up the immediate production as well from Diontae.  This makes 0 sense to me.  Deebo side by a mile. 

I see it as even.  I rank them Jefferson, Dionte, Hollywood, Deebo.  The first 2 on a higher tier than the second 2.  I like all 4 players, they're not too far apart, but thats how I rank them.  So I'll take the Jefferson/ Hollywood side.  Hurd is WW fodder.

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11 hours ago, Mimo said:

12 Team PPR

Team A gets: Marquise Brown and Justin Jefferson

Team B gets: Deebo Samuel, Diontae Johnson and Jalen Hurd

Such an interesting trade...you have four young WRs (not counting Hurd) that all have potential to become #1's at some point in their career...the issue when evaluating this trade is you are going to get a wide array of answers as to how you would rank these four...due to that I see this as an even trade because it comes down to an individual owner's preference as you can make a solid case for all four of them...I am taking the easy way out on this by calling it a push but I can easily see why each owner made this deal.

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13 hours ago, Mimo said:

12 Team PPR

Team A gets: Marquise Brown and Justin Jefferson

Team B gets: Deebo Samuel, Diontae Johnson and Jalen Hurd

close call IMO...I am not really a fan of Deebo so would probably go with team A.

 

If you use the FBG dynasty value charts for July you get: 

Marquise Brown and Justin Jefferson = 18 + 16 = 34 

Deebo Samuel, Diontae Johnson and Jalen Hurd 16 + 13 + 2 = 31

 

Fantasy pros has it as 60 to 63, so very close either way

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On 7/29/2020 at 5:08 PM, BINGBING said:

During this off-season i've acquired Juju in three of my five pre-existing leagues (So not counting start-ups).  I didn't send out any of the offers.  It just seems odd to me that one particular player that I wasn't actively seeking was offered up to me without even asking about him.

PPR Start 1 QB:

Gave: Cooks, 1.06(He got CD Lamb)

Got: Juju, Lamar Jackson

 

PPR Superflex

Gave:  Edelman, 1.08, 2021 2nd

Got: Juju

 

PPR Superflex (irrelevant in this deal)

Gave:  Golladay

Got: Juju

This last one was the only one that made me hesitate for a second.  I think Golladay is in for a big year, but still prefer Juju long term.

The 1st one was a steal.  I like the 2nd one for you but 1.8 could make that age poorly.  I think I'd prefer Kenny G personally but an argument can be made both ways.

I like Juju but he fell a little, Dionte is coming on strong (even though I'm not as high on him as many others in here), they just drafted Claypool, Big Ben doesn't have many years left, and there is talk that Juju doesn't get a contract after this year.  Pitts has let WRs like Burress, Wallace, and Sanders walk when they put up good numbers for them.

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21 hours ago, Zyphros said:

Don’t understand this at all.  If I owned Deebo (which I do) the only reason to flip him would be for immediate production.  You don’t get that from this deal.  Not to mention you give up the immediate production as well from Diontae.  This makes 0 sense to me.  Deebo side by a mile. 

The way I see it you've got Deebo and Diontae as the best 2 players in the deal (I know Jefferson fans will disagree) so easy choice for me. But it is objectively close in that it really comes down to what you think of each of these players, and there are differing views (I like Hurd a lot too).

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On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 7:19 AM, Boston said:

Sometimes I think the age thing can be mis-played in Dynasty (meaning it can come at the expense of winning)...right now Thomas is 27 and Moore is 23...the question is do you think Moore will over-take Thomas during next 3 years or so?  If you think so the deal makes sense if you also hit on the #1 although I do think you should be getting more for Thomas right now, especially since that is not a high pick...if he doesn't overtake him in that period then all of a sudden Moore is closing in on the age Thomas is now so do you trade Moore shortly after that for another young piece?  I think sometimes Owners can cash out on a player and chase youth before they need to...right now Thomas is only 27 and playing at an elite level...personally, unless I am totally blown away with an offer I would rather ride him out for the next 2-3 years and try to win a title and at that point (i.e. when age is a legit concern) figure out how to get something for him...sure, you will get more now but that may not get you closer to a title. 

I think for a lot of owners it's not just about a production concern moving forward when a WR hits 27/28, it's about the value and tradeability of an asset. Even if MT keeps playing at this level, I doubt his value will keep increasing (or even stay the same arguably) because age has a big impact on market value, regardless of production.

I'd say the person getting Moore a) believes Moore in on a similar superstar track to MT, b) in the meantime can give a large % of MT's production, and c) will have higher trade value (or more accurately will be coveted by more owners in the league) over the next 2-3 years. Put simply, Moore gives you the upside lottery ticket, a high pedigree and profile and value insulation. Of course this all assumes that Moore becomes a perennial top 5-10 WR. 

In terms of getting more for Thomas right now, maybe in theory yes, but honestly I think this is about the most you can get if you are trading for WR - an elite young prospect who has already produced to some degree and a first to cover the gap/risk. Once you start putting more assets on the Moore side, the Moore owner probably starts to think what the upside in doing this trade, especially if you're paying for past production to some extent? Not saying this is right, but that's the thinking. Also depends on how your league values firsts - I've been in some leagues where they are almost used as throw ins to even up a deal, and others where they are highly overvalued.

The other consideration with MT is the Brees situation. Now DJ has an uncertain QB future too, but what if MT has Tayson Hill at QB next year and the Saints move to more of a Ravens type offense. That could happen. Maybe the MT wants to combat that risk and getting a coveted asset like Moore and a first on top isn't a bad way to do that. Cashing out for youth also makes a bit more sense in a vacuum this year because of the uncertainty surrounding this season. 

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24 minutes ago, RushHour said:

I think for a lot of owners it's not just about a production concern moving forward when a WR hits 27/28, it's about the value and tradeability of an asset. Even if MT keeps playing at this level, I doubt his value will keep increasing (or even stay the same arguably) because age has a big impact on market value, regardless of production.

I'd say the person getting Moore a) believes Moore in on a similar superstar track to MT, b) in the meantime can give a large % of MT's production, and c) will have higher trade value (or more accurately will be coveted by more owners in the league) over the next 2-3 years. Put simply, Moore gives you the upside lottery ticket, a high pedigree and profile and value insulation. Of course this all assumes that Moore becomes a perennial top 5-10 WR. 

In terms of getting more for Thomas right now, maybe in theory yes, but honestly I think this is about the most you can get if you are trading for WR - an elite young prospect who has already produced to some degree and a first to cover the gap/risk. Once you start putting more assets on the Moore side, the Moore owner probably starts to think what the upside in doing this trade, especially if you're paying for past production to some extent? Not saying this is right, but that's the thinking. Also depends on how your league values firsts - I've been in some leagues where they are almost used as throw ins to even up a deal, and others where they are highly overvalued.

The other consideration with MT is the Brees situation. Now DJ has an uncertain QB future too, but what if MT has Tayson Hill at QB next year and the Saints move to more of a Ravens type offense. That could happen. Maybe the MT wants to combat that risk and getting a coveted asset like Moore and a first on top isn't a bad way to do that. Cashing out for youth also makes a bit more sense in a vacuum this year because of the uncertainty surrounding this season. 

As I stated before (and I know some will differ) sometimes you have to worry more about winning then how tradeable someone is...if you have a roster that is overall young and drafting well you don't have to worry about a few players who's trade value may not be what they are actually producing on the field...I'll take the hit there if it helps me win because I know the rest of my roster can handle the long-term.

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I think Julio Jones sheds some light. He is 3 years older than Thomas and had more or less the same value 3 years ago that Thomas has now - maybe a shade less. Thomas had roughly the same value 3 years ago as Moore does now - maybe a shade more. Although Julio is still a top WR, his value has dropped a lot in dynasty. I can't trade him straight up for Moore in either league.team where I have a share. So, with no injuries and not having to survive any QB change or controversy, Jones' value has dropped at least a 1st round pick (judging from the value difference between Thomas and Moore in the tradewe're talking about). 

From there, I think you'd say that if you are close enough to a title that the difference between Thomas and Moore will likely decide whether you win or lose, go with Thomas to win. If you aren't close or don't think the difference between Thomas and Moore will be a lot next year and after or think Moore will be better then Thomas in three years, go with Moore and the 1st.

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2 hours ago, cloppbeast said:

The other factor is whether MT is a sell high. You could make the argument he is.

That is a legit question...the deal we are talking about just doesn't do much for me...IMO it is purely a move to get younger when age is not a huge concern and there is a good chance it won't translate to wins...the draft pick isn't a high one and it is the only one of substance...that deal has a ton of downside and while I understand Brees is an x-factor (I don't worry as much about that because of Payton) it is not like Moore is playing with Mahomes or Watson...if you are gonna deal Thomas you need to be overwhelmed...Moore would be a nice starting point but that pick would need to be higher and I would need more picks and/or another quality player as well...Thomas is an elite player who's numbers have improved all four years he has been in the league...if I am going to deal him it would have to have a dramatic effect on my roster and involve at least two players who would become foundation starters for my team.

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On 8/4/2020 at 7:57 PM, cloppbeast said:

So team B gets the best player and the most players. Also, Diontae has his own cult following, maybe there's some truth there. Team A must really like Jefferson.

Marquise Brown is the best player imo - (all those WRs are close in value though).

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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On 8/4/2020 at 1:38 PM, cloppbeast said:

I can see where he's coming from. At age 22 Moore had 1175 receiving yards with Kyle Allen as his QB. This puts DJM in rare company. Michael Thomas was still at Ohio St at that age. The guy very well might be getting a much younger MT and a 1st to go with it.

Looking at the value, he received a 1.11 for going from a 1st round to a 2nd round start up pick. It's debateable and a lot of people always want to get the best player. Keeptradecut has this trade favoring the side getting MT only after adding a "value adjustment".

I would take Moore and the 1.11 but I'm a big fan of DJM.

The jump from good to elite is the hardest one to make, and with the bevy of good WRs in the NFL right now Moore really has to make that jump for this trade to make sense.

What do you think the chances are that Moore makes the leap and becomes a consistent 100-1400-10+ type of WR?  It's certainly well within his range of outcomes but it is very far from assured.

If Moore is "only" a consistent 80-1200-6 type of player going forward then that is a really nice piece to have for the forseeable future, for sure, but in the modern NFL it is not worth giving up someone putting up actual difference making numbers for.  It is very replaceable.

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17 hours ago, RushHour said:

In terms of getting more for Thomas right now, maybe in theory yes, but honestly I think this is about the most you can get if you are trading for WR - an elite young prospect who has already produced to some degree and a first to cover the gap/risk. Once you start putting more assets on the Moore side, the Moore owner probably starts to think what the upside in doing this trade, especially if you're paying for past production to some extent? Not saying this is right, but that's the thinking. Also depends on how your league values firsts - I've been in some leagues where they are almost used as throw ins to even up a deal, and others where they are highly overvalued.

The upside is the 8ppg that MT outscored DJM by last year.  I realize the person getting Moore is likely expecting that gap to close and MT to pull back some, but you mentioned upside here.

One of the most puzzling things to me in FF is the way people will chase points so hard at the middle/bottom of their lineup, but settle for "good enough" at the top.  People think eh I've already got DJM and he's pretty good, why do I need MT?  It's just swapping out one top asset for another one.

But 8ppg is a massive amount.  8ppg was the difference between DeAndre Hopkins and Chris Conley last year.  How hard would someone pursue a move that upgraded Chris Conley for DeAndre Hopkins at their WR3 spot?  So why is that same point difference so often treated as negligible if we're talking about the WR1 spot instead?

That's more of a general comment than specific to this trade, but the attitude of there not necessarily being much upside in MT relative to DJM just kind of illustrates it.  The very achievable upside of the difference between MT and DJM is the same as the difference between DeAndre Hopkins and Chris Conley.  In other words, it's massive.

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2 hours ago, hispeedthinmint said:

I am already loaded at WR....even pretty good at RB (Barkley, Cook, Henry, Fournette). My 2 starting WRs were Evans, Tyreek & Hopkins, DJ Moore.....I even have AR15 & Landry & Golladay to plug in too if need be.

Pics or it's not true.

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On 8/4/2020 at 11:02 AM, hispeedthinmint said:

Dynasty PPR

Team A gave DJ Moore, 2020 1.11 & 2020 4.11 rookie picks

Team B gave Michael Thomas

I'll take Thomas by a lot. I don't think this is particularly close. I do like Moore a lot. But Thomas wins championships. There is no WR in the league that will put up as many FF points in one's lineup as this guy. 

I understand wanting to get younger and to be cognizant of when a player is approaching some sort of age cliff (how has that concept treated Fitzgerald, Brandon Marshall, Julio, etc...) but based on your comments about your roster you are definitely in dominate now mode. Not win now, not rebuilding, but absolutely crushing right now. And you're giving up boxscore pts every week with this trade. Thomas could be elite *into* his 30s. 

If he isn't I'd still want *dramatically* more than this deal if I decided I wanted to sell high. This is selling low IMO.

 

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2 hours ago, hispeedthinmint said:

Part of the reason I want to see if I can flip MT for a haul is b/c I am already loaded at WR (Start 3 & 2 flex) & even pretty good at RB (Barkley, Cook, Henry, Fournette). My 2 starting WRs before MT were Evans, Tyreek & Hopkins. DJ Moore mostly sat on my bench & I even have AR15 & Landry & Golladay to plug in too if need be. If I can get my RB stable a bit younger & more stable by moving MT, I think I'd do it.

I would call Barkley-Cook-Henry a little more then “pretty good”

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Just now, Zyphros said:

The first brick has fallen

FFPC league, not involved

Team A got: Antonio Gibson and Amari Cooper

Team B got: Chris Godwin and a 2021 3rd

 

So basically Cooper and a 2020 3rd for Godwin and a 2021 third?  Guy who got Godwin pulled off robbery.  Gibson is in a five way for carries after gruice was cut.

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13 minutes ago, Zyphros said:

The first brick has fallen

FFPC league, not involved

Team A got: Antonio Gibson and Amari Cooper

Team B got: Chris Godwin and a 2021 3rd

 

Go with Godwin here...the issue with Gibson is that while he is very intriguing we still don't know what his role in the NFL will be and if it will translate to fantasy...I can understand wanting to obtain him but he's not enough to close the gap here...and I also see no reason to have to throw in a #3 as well.

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17 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

So basically Cooper and a 2020 3rd for Godwin and a 2021 third?  Guy who got Godwin pulled off robbery.  Gibson is in a five way for carries after gruice was cut.

Meh, Gibson was a Mid 2020 2nd for the most part in my leagues. But your point remains

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16 hours ago, Johnny B. Goode said:

Meh, Gibson was a Mid 2020 2nd for the most part in my leagues. But your point remains

Our third round is about to start but he hasn’t been taken yet.

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Me, FFPC, contending tm.

 

Give

B. Aiyuk & A. Mcfarland

Get

R. Woods

I'm not big fan of Woods (do not own him anywhere else), but as often happens in the FFPC I really need the roster spot and I think Woods can help me this yr and next so why not. 

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1 hour ago, NE_REVIVAL said:

Me, FFPC, contending tm.

 

Give

B. Aiyuk & A. Mcfarland

Get

R. Woods

I'm not big fan of Woods (do not own him anywhere else), but as often happens in the FFPC I really need the roster spot and I think Woods can help me this yr and next so why not. 

Great move for a contender.

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  • Gottabesweet changed the title to ****OFFICIAL 2021 OFF- SEASON DYNASTY TRADES****

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